CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story
The American dream of owning your own successful business seems to be going up in smoke for a lot of the Curves Franchise owners. The story you are about to read may seem like a Steven King horror novel but it is a real story that has happened to my wife and I. To all of the past, present and future owners of a Curves franchise please take the time to read the whole story as at the end we explain what we plan to do and how you as an ex or present owner may want to get involved.
My wife and I had owned and operated our own business for over 20 years and had been very successful at doing so. While we were making a great income from our business there was something missing in our life. Neither us felt that we were contributing to society but just taking and we decided to make a major change in our life. That was when we heard about Curves for Women. It was a new franchise that only had 300 or so clubs and for the first time in years we both became excited at the prospect of actually helping people reach their goals. We bought our first club in 1997 located in a city of thirty thousand. From the first day it opened it was more successful than our wildest dreams. Not only were we making excellent money but the personal rewards helping people better their lives was a truly rewarding feeling. I can still remember as if it was yesterday the first time a Dr. of one of our members came in to check out what we were doing as he couldn’t believe the ch
anges his patient had gone through. She had gotten off her high blood medication and had lost over 40 pounds in 4 months. It was truly amazing and over the years we have seen it happen numerous times over and over.
We sold our first club in 2001 and bought two more franchises. My wife became a mentor for Curves International around this time and I was helping to sell franchise for Curves International as so many of are members wanted to own a club. It was at this time that we started to see problems arising with Curves International but we attributed it to the fast growth that Curves was going through. In 2002 we bought two more franchises but this time they were in what was called a metro-area instead of city under thirty thousand in population.
The first problem we encountered with Curves International was in early 2003. Curves sold a franchise that was a corridor of land between one of our franchise’s and the next city 8 miles from our southern boarder. It was obvious to us that the territory didn’t have the necessary population to support a facility and that Curves International was selling any location just out of greed and the fact that there were so many people who wanted a franchise. The people who bought that franchise tried to open up on our border but it had always been an unwritten but followed rule of Curves International that you open in the middle of your territory so that disputes between owners over stealing members from your territory didn’t arise. We immediately filed a complaint with Curves International and they stopped the new owner from opening at that location. Unfortunately for the new owners there were no other commercial locations between the two cities so they were forced into selling that franchise back to Curves International for a loss.
It was also at this time that Curves International started to change personnel. The employee’s who we had a personal relationship with that had started Curves International with Gary Heavin were leaving the company at an alarming rate. Seven employees that were the top management of Curves left or were forced out because of Gary Heavin’s greed. They ended up filling a law suit against Curves which was later settled out of court. It was at this time that Diane Heavin became involved with Curves and a whole new history was being written about how Curves was started. The original Curves member guide which was written by Gary Heavin and June Manley was taken off the market and the new Curves book authored by of course Gary Heavin was on the top 10 of the Times best seller list.. To make sure it was on the Times best seller list all the clubs had to order at least on case. That is when we as owners realized Heavin was a manipulator and not the born again Christian he portrayed to be. It was also at this time that the price to buy a franchise more than doubled in price. This came as quite a surprise as Heavin had always maintained that he would never ever increase his franchise price and he even swore on the bible in front of a group at club camp that he would never break his word on that. Well as we all know he didn’t keep that promise for long, which just shows his greed.
At this point my wife and I became quite concerned and even considered selling our business but other problems arose concerning Curves International that demanded our full attention. In 2004 another Curves location located on our boarder of one of our metro-areas hired two of our employees and stole around 15 members from our club. Both employees had signed the anti covenant not to compete and in our state those agreements are strictly enforced by the courts. We considered going to court but since it was another Curves facility we decided to file a complaint with Curves International. And to let them handle it. What a mistake that was as they did nothing. We transferred the members files but refused to transfer the money for the members dues until such time that Curves International responded to our complaint. We were told by the area director, which was a new position at Curves International, that we were trouble makers and he refused to send any of are clubs the members appreciation bags. Shortly thereafter Curves International resold the corridor of land that had been sold back to them at a loss from the previous owners and they allowed the new owners to open up in nearly the same location that they had refuse the previous owners only a year and a half before. The new owners advertised in our area and ended up getting 10 or 11 members to transfer to their club. Again we held their monthly dues but did transfer the members files. We immediately filed a complaint but again got the same response nothing. It didn’t take long for most of the members who transferred to come back to our club as the other location was small and in a very run down area and to this day that club has not shown a profit and has been sold numerous times over the years for little to nothing.
Then in 2005 the real problems with Curves International started that we are still contending with today. In one of our metro-areas a competitor by the name of Ladies Workout Express opened up right across the street from our location. Unknown to us they had hired our manager and one other employee from that location and when the employee’s left they had stolen off our computer our member files. They ended up stealing over two thirds of our membership with in a week. The employees had signed the covenant not to compete so we immediately hired a lawyer and prepared for a lawsuit. As I stated before in our state that agreement is strictly enforced but it took four months to get it into court. During this time that location was losing so much money that we decided to move the location next to our other territory so that both clubs could stay open. We sent in the required change of location form to Curves International but never heard anything back from them so we went ahead and relocated in late 05. The owners of the Ladies Workout Express eventually went broke because of the lawsuit and the fact that they would end up owing us monetary damages. They filed for bankruptcy to prevent us from collecting any monetary awards in Dec 05 but we did have the satisfaction knowing that we did what was right
In early 06 we were informed by Curves International that because we abandon that location they were terminating all of our franchise agreements. We immediately requested mediation for all of our clubs which is authorized by our franchise agreements with Curves International. We never heard back from them so we hired a lawyer in Waco, TX to represent us. He proceeded to send them a letter requesting the same mediation process and they did respond to him. They sent him letter stating that it was premature to go through the mediation process at that time as they were in the process of researching our reason for moving. Curves International continued to debit our account for the franchise and advertising fees for all the other clubs we owned but stopped talking the fees for the one territory that they stated we abandoned. The lawyer had us send Curves International a check for the fees and a new authorization form for them to deduct it from our account. Neither our lawyer or ourselves ever heard anything back from Curves International so we all assumed that things were back to normal.
In the spring of 07 we made the decision to start selling off all of our clubs and to completely retire. It didn’t take me long to sell the club we owned that wasn’t in a metro-area and I agreed to stay with the new owner’s to help train them how to run the business. We sent all the documentation into Curves International and the sale was completed by January 08. That freed my wife and I up to concentrate on our metro-area clubs and to get them ready for sale. In Feb of 08 we heard that a Curves club was opening in one of our territories within a mile of our current club. We could not understand how Curves International could do such a thing. We again filed a complaint by phone and e-mail to Curves International and several weeks later we were informed by e-mail that they didn’t know what we were talking about. We were told we didn’t own any franchises and hadn’t since we were terminated in 05. That came as quite a shock to my wife and I as our franchise and advertising fee’s had been deducted all along from our checking account and we had just recently sold a club that they were telling us we never owned. We had a local lawyer send a letter to the new owners explaining the situation and that we would be seeking legal recourse against Curves International and depending on the outcome they were opening themselves up to a potential lawsuit. During this time we had bought and paid in full for the Smart Equipment for Curves International and were waiting for the installation which was scheduled for the June 24th. On June 20th , a Friday we received a phone message telling us that the Curves Smart Installation was canceled and that we had to call Curves legal for an explanation. We left messages both e-mail and phone every 30 minutes on Monday June 23rd and finally late in the afternoon we received an e-mail stating that one of there lawyers would be in touch with us before the end of the day, They never sent an e-mail or a phone call as was promised but by mid day the next day they did respond by e-mail. It stated because of the problems with the members transfers, the fact that we abandoned a franchise, and that we had interfered with the opening of the new franchise located in our territory we weren’t approved for the Curves Smart. Yet in late May they had sent all the promotional ad material for the Curves Smart and of course we had gone to a considerable amount of expense for training the employees, advertising and promotion of the Curves Smart equipment. It was at this point that my wife and I decided that drastic action had to be taken against Heavin and Curves International.
While we still love the concept of Curves we feel that because of the deceptive and we believe fraudulent business practices that Heavin has allowed under his management Curves will eventually end up in the toilet so to speak. After spending many hours on the internet we have found that there are many lawsuits against this man and his company. Just read some of the post’s that are on franchisepick.com from owners concerning the new ten thousand fee if your club goes under and closes to the vitamins that were sold in Feb and March by Ideas in Action at a discount to owners without telling them that they would expire at the end of May. The lack of support and communication from Curves International that all of us owners are going through is intolerable. It is impossible for an owner to get through to them on the phone and good luck if you expect a call back in a timely manor. The fact that we as owners pay a lot of money for our advertising fees and have no accounting of where it is spent and a quite frankly we never see many ads in our area.
I have taken the time to do the necessary research to find several good lawyers who handle franchise law who are more than willing to help Curves owners who are having similar problems with Curves. I for one am going to go after Curves International and Gary Heavin in a court of law. These are not class action but group action lawsuit and if you don’t understand the difference contact me and I will explain it to you. There have been over 200 such lawsuit filed against Curves in the last several years and while some have been settled in mediation others are in the process of going to litigation. If you are a past or present Curves owner who has experienced these problems and want satisfaction whether it be monetary or revenge please contact me. We have several options that we can go and I for one am positive we will win as the other lawsuits have been successful so far and have set a precedent for ours. It is time for the owners of Curves franchises either past or present to stand up together and put a stop to Heavins’s ramped destruction of peoples lives just for monetary greed.
Thanks for reading our post and God Bless you all.
ARE YOU AN CURVES FRANCHISE OWNER OR FORMER CURVES FRANCHISEE?
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CURVES FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITY?
PLEASE SHARE A COMMENT BELOW.
Justine Curves,
First, thank you for the armature psychoanalysis, but no, no transference or projection here. I’m sure it comes from genuine concern for my wellbeing though, so again, thank you.
Now, I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. You laid out your situation and I detailed for you why you were focusing on the wrong expense and how thinking that THAT was what was cause of all your woes was no different than it was for Judy – a mistake. And in your case we weren’t even considering any of the new members branding generates for you. When you add that into the mix, I just don’t see how you can say that saving that small amount would turn your business around.
Also, I’m not sure what your clarification is intend to do. Previously you said “At 260 members the fees are much higher.” but now “Though I was paying a fixed rate for royalties and ci’s “ad fees”, at 260 members I was paying a little less than someone on the sliding scale.” This second statement is in fact accurate and, depending on some factors we can’t calculate in without more details, you were probably paying between 60 and 100 less than someone on a sliding scale. Still not enough to even nudge it into a higher concern. This is still a very small percentage of monthly revenue and expenses. And while all expenses are important, on its own it is NOT what is making and breaking people. I honestly don’t know any other ways to say that.
“Also, as to Judy’s original thought on getting relief from those fees, I interpreted it as a temporary relief, like a short-term subsidy or grant, to allow a franchise an opportunity to get through lean times.”
No, Judy’s original, and follow-up post were VERY clearly with respect to NOT being a Curves:
“Check into purchasing your own own equipment and opening under your own name if you are set on doing it. You will at least save yourself almost $600 a month by not getting tied up with Curves.”
and
“What I don’t understand is what is happening to all of the equipment? Couldn’t you hang onto it for a year and then reopen as an independent? Without the fees you would at least have a chance of a profit.”
It’s OK, there’s a lot of stuff going on and it can all get confusing and it’s not really fair to do that to people as I have pretty good recall for what I read.
Ray,
Thank you!
Wow, “guest” really has a lot of time on his hands!
It’s all about him — he’s higher up on the food chain than the rest of us, and it’s supremely important to him to prove it.
Guest wrote: “First, thank you for the armature psychoanalysis”
Armature psychoanalysis?
You appreciate psychological therapy for the electrical components of an electromechanical machine?
Ha! That’s just awesome by the way, I’m gonna get laughs over that for ages to come!
(your words to unhappy over his typo)
To Ray, Nancy, Just So You Know, and Frazzled,
Thanks for the support and posts. Once our yahoo group site is up we won’t have to put up with It’s posts as only past and present owners will be allowed on. We will have all the current information as to the new and ever changing tactics that Howie is trying to use against owners to collect more illicit money from owners. We will also have the list of lawyers who owners can contact for legal advice as well as all the lawsuit information and the results of the all the trials.
Oh Guest!
Oh Everyone, I just feel so frustrated with Guest. I know it’s silly for me to take any more time discussing the Ad Fee and Branding with this poster, but I just don’t want anyone to think I’m agreeing with this writer! You know? His arguments aren’t bad, they’re just missing key pieces of information… like any information specifically about CI!
I just signed my Chapter 7 papers yesterday and am looking forward to ‘the end’ in about 60 days. We lost our house, our savings, all the women at Curves! you know the drill…. But it’s a fresh start!
Anyway, good luck to everyone. I’ll keep checking in. Hope to tune into the yahoo group too.
Justine,
All of us that have been or are Curves owners know how you feel, Justine, and believe me we share your pain. Not only for financial losses but because of the attachments to our members. I have not talked to one owner who ever felt that the concept and workout didn’t work as we all can tell success stories about all the women we have helped. It is just such a shame that we didn’t get the service or help of any kind from Curves International and were treated with such unethical, immoral and some times illegal tactics from Howie. Don’t every worry about any of us thinking you were agreeing with “it”. Any owner who reads the posts here knows the truth as they have had to live and endure all the crap from Howie and are use to having to deal with shills. Please keep checking in at least until we get the yahoo group site up and running so that you will have the site address (as we will post it here as soon as it is up and running) and remember there is live after Curves and God Bless. Unhappy (but getting darn right happy as times go by)
I hate to see any business owner suffer closing, but I have a soft spot in my heart for fellow Curves owners. I know it doesn’t help much, but to read the stories here from all of you does indeed break my heart. I know what being a part of so many people’s lives has meant to me over the years, and there is just no describing the type of support members can give your life.
Deciding to close has brought some overwhelming emotions, as well as some light at the end of my tunnel. I expect a struggle…..I am realistic…..and I am not looking for CI to produce pots of gold at the end of any rainbow. Those willing to share their story has meant alot to others, and I respect everyone for doing so.
What a relief to know it may be over soon, and I can have a life back……
My hope is that others will feel the same.
June 19, 2010
TO ANYONE IS INTERESTED IN BUYING A CURVES FRANCHISE!
PLEASE READ!!!
If you are reading this and you are thinking about buying a Curves franchise, PLEASE, please think TWICE; think THREE times, and then think again!
I bought my local Curves and tried desperately to get it into the black,
and did everything Curves Intl asked me to do and then some.
I followed the procedure specified by Curves as a Curves-approved ‘resale’,
and also participated in the “Curves development process” (their so-called
‘training’, which really doesn’t tell you much except how to sell ‘their’ way).
I attended their “Club Camp” and “Convention” (wow, what IS it with Curves
and Weight Watchers, anyway? They mocked Weight Watchers, they really
put them down…and I don’t see why. The two should NOT be in competition.
Weight Watchers is a DIET plan. Curves is an EXERCISE plan. If they were
to PARTNER they would both benefit. But Curves apparently doesn’t see it
that way. They want to be ‘all things’ to ‘all members’).
I did everything they asked and then some. I worked 24/7. I worked at my
Curves many more hours than I had anticipated, and then even MORE on top
of that as the money ran out, desperately trying to reduce monthly expenses
by working myself instead of paying payroll.
But right from the start, my club’s monthly expenses were woefully
underestimated by the owner who sold it to me (to the tune of some $3,000.-
$4,000. a MONTH and yet these same expenses were REVIEWED and APPROVED by Curves Intl. That’s deceptive trade practices, folks!
I also had problems with the CurvesSmart equipment which not only did Curves Intl NOT resolve (I solved myself via an Electronics expert working on my end and
a MyTrak – developers of the CS equipment – on their end) but they complicated
matters considerably and cost me thousands of dollars by NOT PAYING
ATTENTION to my pleas for help and questions via email, AND by MISQUOTING
the price I should charge. (yep, believe it!)
Every single item you can THINK of is will wind up to be YOUR responsibility.
Curves does NOT even provide you with KEYTAGS to run their computer
system (they cost up to $2.50 apiece) – oh, and the license fees to run their
system run $50./month for the basic system, plus another $120./month for the
CurvesSmart system). Curves will not give you so much as a simple POSTER to put in your window advertising the latest Curves promotion. Instead everything costs YOU money. (“take this to your local printer”, they say).
You need to understand, Curves Intl makes their money by SELLING TO THEIR FRANCHISES. You are expected to get the money from your members, but
Curves gets it from YOU. The Curves products (including
t shirts, Diane Magazine, promotional items, etc etc etc) all cost money and
the shipping and handling is OUTRAGEOUS (even for ground shipping).
Expect to pay $5.00 and up for a simple t shirt for a member. If you try to
sell the t shirts you will have to ‘overprice’ them much higher than the MSRP
(which already is like $14.00 a t shirt) to your members in order to make any
kind of profit at all. And there are many, many items that you will be expected
to buy and never get a penny back from — including the Diane magazines
(sold only in cases of 80), any and all promotional items, and even the ads
you need to run yourself (don’t expect help there….when was the last time
you saw a Curves TV ad?)
You have to get and pay for all local newspaper advertising (and you
have to get special approval — which 8 months later I STILL haven’t heard),
the idea there is ‘stall’ so you’ll give up) for if you don’t use the ‘canned’ approach Curves provides. (this approach does NOT allow for you to put your own before and after pictures in your ads, and in fact allows for NO personalization other than the address and phone # of your Curves).
Oh – and there’s another monthly charge of $100. for
‘advertising’/national branding. That’s in addition to the monthly franchise
royalty you will have to pay (automatically, Curves deducts both fees monthly
out of the bank account you MUST provide to them upon becoming an owner).
Additionally, the “Development” process is nothing but a pep rally and a
sales ‘according to Curves’ mentorship, which seems to assert that all women
are stupid (you can’t divulge any prices over the phone, you’re told to ‘get them
in the door first’ and then talk them into buying). Basic business skills, how
to operate a business, even what licenses are needed, are NOT covered by
Curves International or are given the briefest of mentions on their websites.
In my case sales tax was an issue, so was a surety bond and a business
license, and these items represented thousands of dollars I did not know about
and did not have (but obviously had to find from somewhere…so guess where?
my OWN rapidly disintegrating pockets).
DON’T FALL FOR CURVES. It is NOT a good investment. You will work yourself into an early grave and Curves will simply say ‘You failed – pay UP!’ (at present we are trying to negotiate better terms than the $2,000-$5,000 ‘closing fee’ they are swearing we owe them ‘or else’ they will sue us $10,000.)
PLEASE listen. Don’t be like I was. I read this website back in October and dismissed the owner, feeling he was disgruntled and had an axe to grind.
But I wish I had listened! Now I have to pay back all my members, I have a legal battle to fight, and my self-esteem is at an all-time low; despite working my TAIL off to get my Curves ‘in the black’.
If you think I just am in a ‘depressed area’, or didn’t work hard enough, let me
say, as well, that I DOUBLED my membership during these ‘trying’ economic
times. I worked very very hard to get these members. But it’s not enough. There is no way it would EVER be enough to cover the expenses of running a Curves franchise.
And CURVES PROFITS EITHER WAY. They charged me thousands of dollars to
get ‘approved’ as a new owner, thousands for training, thousands for promotional
and advertising materials and licenses and everything else; they when I
finally gave up they said “Tough…you owe us between $2,000-$5,000. ‘closing
fee’ and you’d better pay or we’ll sue you $10,000”.
The whole premise of Curves is to prey upon your desire to HELP women,
to do what’s right in terms of exercise and fitness and health. But they don’t
care about those things. All they care about is TAKING YOUR MONEY.
And when you close the first question they ask you is “Have you tried selling
your club to someone else?” – the implication, being, of course, that they
will just turn around and do it AGAIN to someone else.
I stopped the cycle (hopefully) and will close my club ethically for my members’
sake. But I’m here to say, please please don’t fall for it. I thought I was
reasonably intelligent. I had some business experience. But Curves knows
ALL THE ANGLES, and they will manipulate you and USE your honesty and your
desire to help women to make themselves money.
NOTE: This email address is deliberately falsified as I have to worry now
about being pursued by Curves Legal Dept. Please know that I did NOT make
my story up. It is TRUE. I have nothing to gain here, but my time and my
truthful, from-the-heart story about my relationship with Curves International.
STAY AWAY FROM THIS FRANCHISE. If you want to open a fitness center,
DO SO YOURSELF. Don’t tie yourself to Curves because you think it will
bring you more customers. They will take your money and you will be left
high and dry.
Susie from the U.S.
Susie:
Your story is almost a carbon copy of mine. I suspect most are. (Except my area director told me not to bother with Curves Camp)
I wonder if we know how many potential buyers have taken advice from here and NOT purchased a club? Maybe ‘unhappy’ would be willing to share that good news with us….if available.
My closing date is Aug. 1st if all goes well.
When is yours?
Good luck to everyone facing this battle. Best to all who have already overcome it!
Looking forward to changing my moniker……..
■endofmyropeisanoose,
The unofficial count so far is several hundred poetical owners have taken advice from here and other franchise pick sites about Curves and not purchased a resale or franchise from Howie.
Where this site has really helped is owners who had to close and faced the intimidating, arm twisting and in many cases illegal tactics by Howie to either destroy or donate equipment which is legally the owners or to force owners into paying a closing fee or franchise and advertising fees once they were closed. Over 1900 owners have refused to pay Curves and Howie a dime more once closed and this site is responsible for Howie stopping the tactics of filing lawsuits against owners who close . We also have a list of over 1,775 owners who want to join the second wave of group action or class action lawsuits against Howie depending on the out come of the first wave of group action lawsuits.
BP franchise owners are under attack. 600,000 well-meaning (but misguided, imho) activists have joined the Facebook “Boycott BP” page and now Lady GaGa and other high profile celebrities are caling for their fans to boycott BP stations. There are protests at franchise gas stations, and franchisees have had their stations picketed, vandalized, and had oil drenched animal carcasses dumped at their doors.
The BP boycott will have little to know effect on BP but could be devastating for franchise owners already struggling.
Curves franchise owners know what it’s like to suffer because of the sins (or at least the political views, PR missteps, etc.) of the “father” franchisor. Please share your thoughts on the boycotting of your fellow franchise owners, and whether you think it’s the right way to get positive action, here:
BOYCOTT STUPIDITY: Support BP Franchise Owners!
(While my pro-franchisee bias is not exactly subtle, alternative views, as always, are welcome)
If anyone ever has problems with their comments appearing, email unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com. Thanks.
Should franchisees be punished for views or actions they have no control over? Shouldn’t they be wooed as potential allies to urge change from the franchisor rather than being run out of business?
Your thoughts and comments are invited here:
10 Reasons NOT to Boycott BP, especially BP Franchise Owners
One reason franchise owners remain powerless is that they rarely organize or act as a group – even within the same chain but especially across brands.
Should franchisees of other chains (hint, hint) stand up for one another when they are unfairly under attack? Or at least educate people on the structure of the franchise relationship and who they are actually attacking?
Franchisors organized the powerful IFA to protect their self-interests, but franchisees generally won’t speak up for one another (they get FR-funded balloon animals like the AAFD). Opposing franchisee boycotts should be a no-brainer.
If you are an owner of a curves franchise and are upset at the underhanded, unethical, immoral, and shoddy business practices of Curves International you need to go to this site http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/280/RipOff0280916.htm
and file a complaint. It may help someone else from making the biggest mistake of there life.
Does anyone have any advice as to what to do with the Curvessmart equipment once you close your club. They have sent me boxes, appartently packing boxes, what should I do?
We have sent the letters to the members…we are done!..
i read on the yahoo site that depending who you get at legal…you can keep it..
dont send back… try to sell it… you bought it!
so far we have not heard from legal..we told them that we are not renewing..will be interesting to see what happens!
Eilzabeth,
That equipment is yours and Curves has no right to it. Curves wants you to send it back as Howie will turn around and sell it for 6,000 dollars. Many owners have not sent it back and if you email admin at at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and ask him to forward it to me I will send you contacts you can call to verify that.
I received my legal letter today demanding over $30k because I didn’t pay the initial settlement offer. Please clarify again – am I just to completely ignore this? What is CI doing now with recent closing owners?
First off is it the demand letter for abandonment? It will say that on top of the letter and should have come one day overnight delivery from ups. if it is disregard it as it is just part of their threatening tactics. The next step is to receive a letter from the dead attorney out of ILL. That is a collection letter threatening that if you don’t pay a lawyer will be hired in your home city to file a lawsuit against you. First off any dispute between you and CI or CI and you has to be settled or taken to court in Waco TX . Secondly under TX law Curves can not sue you for back fees once you have closed. There are something’s that you need to do to protect yourself so send an email to the admin of this site and ask them to forward it to me with your phone number and I will call you to explain what all you need to do. Don’t panic as it is all part of Howie tactics of intimidation and extortion and legally they have no grounds to collect any money from you so don’t pay them a dime. Send request to admin at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com
Curves are closing faster than CI is able to keep up with them. Just ignore ’em!
Wipedout,
.Not only are they closing faster than the speed of light, 86% of the owners in a recent poll state that they do not plan to renew their contract when it comes up for renewel . Anyone thinking of buying a Curves at any price should reconsider their decision as this franchise is going down the drain thanks to Howie and Diane.
to Still in the Nightmare:
I closed in October, 2009, because my club was losing money faster than I could earn it on my regular job. I had 9 months left on my contract. I contacted CI (by phone, email, and certified letter) to tell them I was closing and to ask what the proper procedures were for closing. At that time I did not know about their rediculous demands. I had given them my updated contact information but they still sent the initial demand package to my exhusband. He sent it back to them, so I still don’t know what the contents were. I did receive an email with the rediculous demands to send them 10K and destroy my machines, sell them for scrap, and send them the money and the receipt. That was just too funny! I couldn’t imagine anyone actually doing this! But then I read a horror story of someone who did. :(
My advice is to close your bank account so they can’t draft any more fees, and don’t send them a dime. Also, tell everyone you know who owns a club about your experience with CI. Remember what we learned at Club Camp, “Word of mouth is your best advertising.” I don’t think anyone will renew their contract if they know CI has lost their minds, as well as their business sense. I put my machines in storage because I can’t find anyone to buy them at a fair price. So far, I haven’t heard anything else from CI.
It was hard to make the decision to close, even when losing as much money as I was, but now I am recovering and don’t regret it a bit. I understand what you are going through. I almost went bankrupt out of fear of what CI would do, but decided to wait. Now, I’m glad I did. I haven’t hired an attorney or gone after them either.
My advice: Don’t sign anything with CI or send them any money until a judge tells you face to face what it is that you have to do. There IS life after Curves! May God bless you and keep you in the palm of His hand!
It is an abandoment one. I’ve talked to Robert before, but it’s been awhile and I can’t remember everything. I’ll get with you in the next few days as I’m out of town. Thanks for the response. I can only hope that CI goes down the tubes, but not at the expense of the struggling owners – for them I wish the BEST in whatever situation but personally I think they would do much better without the franchise nose in their business.
Unhappy thank you for having resources to share.
I live in WA state, where state law supercedes everything written in the Curves contract, (this is true in most states re: contracts where business is conducted locally and transactions are less than a million dollars:)). I have checked w/ 2 lawyers who’ve confirmed how I’ve read the state laws: WA state basically nullifies CI’s claims and also requires all court actions to be in WA state courts!). It’s nice to know (from Unhappy) that Texas does too. For a while I’ve been joking with friends that if I visit Texas again I’ll have to use an alias.
I was consulting with Bankruptcy attorneys – for free- when I got that information about my state law. Both of them said to put it into the bankruptcy filing and expect the bankruptcy trustee to throw it out because it’s an invalid demand under state law.
Good luck.
This is just a flight of fantasy: if only we could file a class action lawsuit against Curves for adding the unneccessary mental burden of delaing with their intimidation vis-a-vis the demand letters for payments for closing and the demands for the return of equipment. Too many poor souls have lost sleep and money over their demands, at a time when they are already suffering from the demise of their business!
I’m sure there are legal loopholes for their behavior, and of course there were some signs to indicate they would act this way, but it has just been wrong!
that’s all.
just venting.
thanks.
The proof is in the financial numbers – I finally got my tax documents together and I wonder how I held my doors open so long. My 2009 LOSS was over $11,000. CI took $5k of that in their fees. That’s $11,000 that could have taken my husband, my two young children (whom I raised partly at my club because I could not afford a sitter), and myself on one HECK of a nice vacation – or paid my car off – or any other number of bills that probably wouldn’t be there if it weren’t for my trying to stick it out. Why did I stay open – fear of CI retaliation, love of members, and naive thoughts about things getting better. I bought a franchise, dang it, and it’s supposed to WORK – right???? If you are thinking about closing, aren’t paying yourself (hardly a penny in my personal pocket in 2+ years), finding you are taking family money and throwing it at your club in a fruitless attempt to remain open – close. Don’t look back and wish you’d closed $10,999 sooner.
■Still in the nightmare
You are so right about the reasons for staying open “fear of CI retaliation, love of members, and naive thoughts about things getting better” but thanks to this site most owners are aware that the fear of retaliation from CI is just intimidation and nothing more as there is nothing that CI can do to an owner once you have closed. CI will threaten and try to intimidate you into paying the closing fee, franchise fees and advertising fees but it is illegal in the state of TX for them to do so. Owners don’t be intimidated by the threats and extortion tactics used be Howie and don’t pay him a dime after you close………
Unhappy states:
‘CI will threaten and try to intimidate you into paying the closing fee, franchise fees and advertising fees but it is illegal in the state of TX for them to do so’
Can you please show the law that states it is illegal to charge the franchise fee and advertising fees after closing? If this were the case, wouldn’t the countersuits in the Texas case (looks like it won’t go to trial until 2011 now) been dismissed?
Nightmare states:
‘The proof is in the financial numbers – I finally got my tax documents together and I wonder how I held my doors open so long.’
Let me get this straight, it’s June 28 (when you posted) and you are now just realizing how your store fared for 2009??
Why did it take you so long to know how you did in 2009? I think this is the problem with some small business owners, they just don’t know how good/bad they are doing, because they don’t keep up with it. This person is 6 months behind on their accounting and who knows how much money they’ve wasted in variable costs over the last six months.
Id,
So sweet of you for pointing out not the purpose of my post but my latency in getting my bottom line numbers down. You’ve no idea what mitigating factors caused the delay in getting my final data together, but you have missed the entire point – close before you sink more money in that you will never, ever, ever, ever – did I say EVER? – get back out. .
I would think that most of us come here looking for help and direction. I didn’t realize this was the shoulda’, woulda’, why didn’t ya’ place. If we are here, we are already past that point and pointing out perceived flaws seems a bit like kicking someone when they are already down. The fact is, we are either on the brink of losing our business or have already lost it and just want to know what’s in store for us next – not what we should have done in hindsight.
jd,
Really, why do you find the need to continuously comment negatively on what people post on this site? I don’t recall anyone asking for your criticism or for your sage advice on how to be a better business person.
We are all pretty much past that point–we all have the same stories, we’ve lost a ton of money, gone bankrupt, closed our Curves–and we’re really here just to tell those stories, vent a little, and just bind as a group. We are here so that those who are in the process of closing can get some direction, not to be intimidated by Curves, nor pay them a cent more. It is the hope that anyone considering buying a Curves, will come across this site and reconsider doing so.
We are here to support each other that yes, we’ve all been there, and no, we’re not alone, and from sharing our experiences, that we can now hopefully go forward in our lives.
When people are beaten down, they don’t need to be kicked. Really, your criticism and negative comments are totally unwanted.
■Still in the nightmare,
Thank you for your post and don’t let the a– h— scare you away from this site. We all just ignore his posts and don’t respond to worthless commints. Him and Howie are the perfect mates and are obviously in bed togeather. Let them go f— themselfs.
Still in the nightmare,
I totally agree with you. Once I closed my club 2 months ago I just wanted some answers, I received some great advice on this site. The “person” who commented is probably one of Howie’s wannabees and has never owned a Curves or a business for that matter. Totally ignore him because he has no idea what he talking about. My husband and I laugh about his comments all the time… its quite entertaining.
Elizabeth, laugh all you want. Personally, I shake my head at many of the commments made by many of your fellow failed franchisees. As far as owning a business, I am an owner of a business, and as another job I’ve seen how people run their franchised businesses.
I’m going to pick on ‘Nightmare’ here for a second. She stated that she had just realized that six months after the fact her club lost $11k for 2009 for tax purposes and sounds as if she is resigned to the fact that she is going to close her store. Okay, so losing $11k/year isn’t a good thing, but it’s not an amount that could probably be overcome by changes in expenses, and maybe a few more members. However, having not looked at her finances until 6 months later, she’s probably lost another $5-6k this year. Also, something that needs to be considered before closing her gym, is whether her rent and debt are more than $11k/year. If it is and unless she declares bankruptcy, then she’ll be on the hook for more than the $11k she lost this year.
As for Unhappy, he’s just upset that he’s being challenged on his ‘facts’. The name calling is typical (although very un-Christian), and I’m not going to stoop to name calling, although I don’t think that’s the type of forum that the Admin wants here. I’m hopeful that he didn’t give any ‘advice’ to the franchisee in NY that didn’t respond to a lawsuit back in March and now has a default judgment against them for everything that Curves asked for (including future royalties/ad fees).
Here’s something to think about for all of the people on here, think back to when you were doing your due diligence for buying your Curves. Odds are you were hearing all of the ‘right’ things from the Curves people and probably ignored other factors because you didn’t want to hear them. Now, looking back on it, you are kicking yourself, because you didn’t pay attention to any ‘red flags’. Fast forward to now, Unhappy is telling you all of the ‘right’ things, believe them if you want, but who is to say what you are hearing is wrong in a couple of years and you are in worse shape.
I use to work for a Curves, the owner closed the doors and didn’t pay us for 2 months, she didn’t give any notice to the members ,some took her to court, but to no avail yet, but she has one still open 30 minutes away, How can that be? how does that work? She closed so fast she even kept some members old sneakers !! I feel sorry for the employees that have worked for curves, yes they were not the “owners” but still good people who lost their jobs, I’ve moved on, became a Nurse, but I still think of how bad that Christmas of 08 was, closing and not caring! Not paying us, or the members, but she still goes on in another town!! She must of been trained well by that Gary H!!
JD, do you go to online cancer survivor support group sites and tell them they shouldn’t have smoked, shouldn’t have gotten sunburns or should have eaten more fruits and vegetables, too?
Jenny,
I admit there are some owners who are just down right disgusting and just as crooked as Howie. It is unbeleveable that the employees had no recourse as most states have state boards that you can go to and collect past wages. while we certainly don’t condone the owners action, we really can’t hold Howie responsible for that type of behavior although it does sound like somthing from his play book. Thanks for posting your story.
JD I’m curious to know what would you suggest for all of us to do that are still open and have nothing left to put into the business to keep it alive during these trying times?
Jenny:
Sorry to hear you were treated like that! Can you sue against her bond?
KM:
I was wondering the same thing. Most of us who are facing closing have:
1) Become our only employee.
2) Handled pounding the pavement in our “free hours”.
3) Stopped keeping anything in stock.
4) Used our savings to stay open.
5) Give NOTHING away for free.
6) Cut our sign-up fee.
7) Watched our members loose their jobs and quit in droves.
Some clubs are small, and could never get that far ahead to plan for this rainy day. It is easy to critique from the sideline.
This is a ‘luxury” item that women do cut in tough times. It is hard to justify $ spent at Curves when your family is on a shoestring. I live in Nevada, and it seems as if everyone has lost jobs and hours! I can’t fault the members for needing to quit.
So…..with all due respect, someone like jd will not make me feel bad. I hope others will hold their heads high too!
Thanx unhappy for this place to go. And thanx to Robert for the kind ear…..
unhappy,
I am looking forward to the new yahoo site. Any word on when it might be up and running?
To all other owners – hang in there! Sounds like unhappy and the yahoo group will give us much needed advice.
To all curves owners there is a new story in the WSJ that all owners should read. Go to Here is a link to the full article:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704862404575351293938715632.html?mod=WSJ_hps_LEFTWhatsNews Also owners should send an email to the author telling them about their reasons for closing so that they will do a continuing article about all the lawsuits and unethical, immoral and sometimes illegal business tacics Howie is using.
Unhappy,
I knew you’d be on top of things.
Thank you!
Wow….if closing some Curves was part of a secret “pruning plan” then it seems as if they owe US money. Afterall, this covert action was a plan of Mike Raymond’s
……..right? Hmmmmm
Here is another WSJ story but on yahoo it is an iteresting read except it’s filled with nothing but lies. Diane was a founding partner? Howie and Diane just keep rewriting the history of Curves to fit into their made up lies.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB111997621750071717.html?mod=yahoo_free
Unhappy–Did you notice the date that article was published……July of 2005! Yes, and it is certainly not the truth. Also an owner who is quoted in the other WSJ article has stated on the owner’s group that in 8-12 months Curves is headed for an abrupt change. Heavin, Raymond, and Curves as we know it. are on the way out . And I think that has been said here on this site also.
The company disagrees with its critics, contending that much of the club closings were intended as part of a plan to “prune the system,” according to Curves President Mike Raymond.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS, YOUR HONOR!
I’m not abandoning my club.
I am “voluntarily paticipating in the pruning plan”.
The business model allowed a franchisee to make a profit with as few as 100 members, Mr. Heavin once said.
Yet, More than 1,000 Curves vanished across the country in 2009…
I assume the clubs are closing because they don’t have 100 members. If so, then why don’t they have 100 members?
Is Curves International promoting the Curves name and bringing more members into the clubs? If not, why not?
endofmyropeisanoose, I love that “I am voluntarily paticipating in the pruning plan”. I am definitely going to use that at the end of this month when I close and call them to let them now.
Thanks