18/8 Eighteen Eight Fine Men’s Salons Franchise Warning

311 thoughts on “18/8 Eighteen Eight Fine Men’s Salons Franchise Warning”

• To Margaret’s point, I got off to a great start and after three months in business was convinced break even was just a few short months away. As we all know now, there is no such thing as marginal productivity in this model. It ended up taking me two years and several hundred thousand in working capital to reach break even.

  I took two validation calls in the first three months and spoke highly of the concept. One of those callers ended up opening a salon. To this day, I feel very guilty about that call and the only thing I can say in my defense was I really believed I was on the way to profitability. If the Palm Springs franchisee reads this – please forgive me for misleading you so badly.

• I think that most of us were led to believe that we were “off to a great start.” That was part of the scam script, and the “Corporate” employee coaches were fully aware of our false hope because they were also coaching the franchisees who had already learned the truth. Corporate also made a point of recruiting newbies to participate in validation calls while the newbies still believed that they were on the path to break-even. Damn them all to hell.

• W. Scott’s full incompetence on display in the publicly available bankruptcy docs. Every single corp owned location was losing (bleeding) money at the time Ultimate Brands declared bankruptcy. A blind monkey would have done better. Compare these to the numbers in the FDD.

  Location // YTD Gross Income // YTD Gross Expenses // YTD Net Income
  Costa Mesa, CA // $254,472.17 // $309,376.22 // -$54,904.05
  Temecula, CA // $81,401.41 // $132,462.73 // -$51,061.32
  Newport Beach, CA // $9,490.10 // $9,556.58 // -$66.48
  Lake Forest, CA // $73,281.35 // $153,031.64 // -$79,750.29
  North Scottsdale, AZ // $64,246.87 // $64,404.42 // -$307.55
  Pasadena, CA // $272,984.24 // $334,045.93 // -$61.061.69
  Topanga, CA // $285,415.53 // $366,382.61 // -$80,967.08

• Everybody get their bankruptcy mailer?

• I didn’t get anything. What was in it?

• It is from Marshack Hays LLP, Regarding Case No 8:19-bk-12516-TA/Chapter 7 “NOTICE OF MOTION TO APPROVE CASH COLLATERAL AGREEMENT COMPROMISE, AND POST-PETITION FINANCING”

• I think STG’s Lance Freeman, who is now President, was possibly rewarded for his break-neck 18|8 franchisees selling in spite of the repudiation by CNBC’s Marcus Lemonis, may have some legal exposure. Lance was the guide leading investors to the connection with this franchisor. He educated folks over multiple sessions, using his position as a franchising expert he fielded lots of questions in getting folks to the buy. He would (or should) have known about the improbability of YOY and cross-store consistency of the 47.0% COGS %’s in the FDDs given the 3 levels of stylists, product level fluctuation, etc. He also should have known that corporate’s high producing stylists were contractors despite his selling us on the employee model. The FDD’s COGS reflecting contractor vs. he was selling, made the FDD ‘apple’ and an ‘orange’ purchased. Lance provided the contractor affected 47% FDD figure to potential investors in use for their analysis that were also embedded in the FDD numbers, if legit, would have been the effect of paying payroll taxes on the 8% of tips, while the customers were paying 20%. Several people have reported that he told franchisees and another buyer was about to buy the territory they were looking at. Nice line used over and over so the prospects would not research much further, but stay focused on the misleading FDDs, the information provided at Discovery Day and the information he provided in those educational systems. Time was not Scott’s/Lance’s side. You had to decide immediately.

  Also, as noted above, Lance also appears to have carefully steered prospects to talk to only those franchisees he suspected would be giving glowing reports on their decision to pay $100K for rights to opening a business that will most likely ever have a recovery of their investment. He urged franchisees on several occasions to raise to their hands talk to potential investors. Funny, folks with not so great of an experience with 18|8, in many cases with longer tenures, were passed over.

  Without Lance’s efforts, it would appear that Scott would not have been able to accomplish what he intended, albeit with consequences felt by so many. For his lockstep help and navigation using flawed representations, Lance, who was contracted help, was even on the corporate Christmas card sent to all the franchisees.

  Sounds like culpability.

• W. Scott Griffiths is still doing interviews trying to sell franchises, even after being removed due to incompetence. Published on 10/7/19. This man is a total embarrassment. It’s like he’s in denial. What is he still getting out of it after Chapter 7? Is it just a show for his own ego?

  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/scott-griffiths-founder-18-8-fine-mens-salons-griffs/id1323641416?i=1000452625029
  https://soundcloud.com/modrnbusiness/red-boswell-004-818-griffs-podcast

• Just launched this. Per the episode website, it was posted 26 days ago from the date of this note. Unless the website had some huge delay from the original airing, the appears to be just more fraud on top of the other fraud.

  Love the way SG answers the softball questions by someone who has done zero research before giving access to their audience. Ryan Hicks essentially owns up to, at the front of the interview. In the end, if people invest, in part, due to people putting on people who tell lies to get people to invest, then it makes them look really bad.

  FYI, I noticed just now 11 different “business” SG appears to have setup or has been a principal in.

  Seems like a lot.

  William & Scott, Inc.
  1) Grreat Griff
  2) 2Ultimatebrands
  3) Ultimate Franchises, Inc
  4) Scott Griffiths Design Associates, Inc.
  5) Great Griffs Two Corp
  6) 18/8 Fine Men’s Salons
  8) Boombang Ventures, Inc
  9) Boombang, Lic
  10) Men’s Haircare Online Booking
  11) Mana Concepts, Inc

  His business associates come up as Lisa Lu Hwong, age 90 and Jeffrey J McLaren, age 50.

  Chris, thanks for sharing the interview note.

• all associated in some way or another with the IFPG broker organization. do not engage them.

• Did IFPG make this site do as it says?

  The “founder” is boasting that they would and now it appears they did.

  Anybody know the ifpg’s true origin?

  And is anybody know why no one ever shows up to any other webinars or calls?

  Claim to have all these members but France or seems to be two or three times larger

• According to IFPG, Franchise consultants/broker average between $18K to $30K for a one-unit sale. Multi-units are much, much more. (https://www.ifpg.org/franchise-consultant-training/how-much-can-i-make/)

  States don’t even validate FDD numbers when there is that much incentive to falsify the records.

  In CA almost everything is regulated. Yet, for franchising, you can just make stuff up or choose what not to put into an FDD that is required. No worries. The scamming doesn’t hold you criminally accountable,

  The franchisor’s consultant/broker is motivated to pass on the lie when lest they lose X times $30K

  STG gained a lot by following along with SG’s scam. No motivation to ensure the lawsuit not listed in FDD was listed or require to see private financial records showing COGS and income provided, etc.

  I wonder how much STG took in from playing along.

• To understand the large groups like IFPG and FranServe is to see why the operate the way they do. These organizations make the bulk of their money getting brokers to join at $19,900 – $24,900 and then either charge a monthly membership fee or take a royalty in FranServe’s case which depending on who you ask is a violation of franchise law. They also make a significant amount of money bringing in franchisors at a monthly or yearly fee ranging from $150 a month to over $10k a year. Despite their claims these big broker groups rarely, if ever truly vet the franchises they represent. If they will pay the fees then according to the groups they are a good franchisor which unfortunately is rarely the case. The unsuspecting brokers take their groups leadership at their word and try to promote these brands only to have their prospects learn that the franchise is not what it is cracked up to be which leads to not only no revenue for the broker but can damage the broker’s reputation as well. Now don’t get me wrong, these groups DO represent some very strong franchises, but the more they can claim they have helps recruit more brokers. “We are the biggest because we have 500 brands” is a common claim which at face value sounds great but in reality only a small fraction of them are actually selling any units, much less a worthwhile investment. I was recently told that a large portion of the brands that are represented by these groups do not even have any franchisees, just a company owned unit. Unfortunately the big groups like IFPG and FranServe have gotten away from wanting to actually help franchisors grow and are focused on lining their own pockets by overpromising and under delivering to brokers and franchisors. The business model has changed tremendously in recent years.

• To this question… “Anybody know the ifpg’s true origin?”

  The owner of IFPG used to be a staff member of a defunct organization called Franchise Alliance. Some bad press came out about Dan Prechtel, the owner of Franchise Alliance which turned that company into a sinking ship almost overnight. Dan, the owner of IFPG along with a couple of other Franchise Alliance affiliated members basically took the database, spun up a website and offered a home to the Franchise Alliance brokers which is what has led to what IFPG is today. Oddly the birth of FranServe, their biggest rival, was born out of the very same Franchise Alliance downturn, just a slightly different plan of execution.

• Has anyone heard (or have updates) what the outcome was with Scott on all his legal challenges coming from all sides? Does he still live in the U.S.? Has he paid any of the money to MJ? Has he been charged with fraud related to his bankruptcy actions/inactions?

  You have to find a lot of irony in those people doing interviews with Scott, a failed franchisor who has now filed two different bankruptcy. The man has destroyed so much personal (and business wealth) between landlords, suppliers, franchisees and possibly even family members that gave him money.
  On a related note, Scott was getting landlords, even relatively recently, to let him take over stores. You have to wonder what financial information he provided a landlord in late 2018 or 2019 that could possibly lead to landlord letting him take over.

  Hopefully, a book will be written about all the regulatory, reporting, failings that have led up Scott’s actions leading to so much capital destruction. Should also be a B school case study, possibly leading to regulatory reform.

• W. Scott Griffiths, Ron Love, Brigitte Thewes and Loretta Griffiths still suck.

• Scott Griffiths, Brigitte Thewes Love, Loretta Griffiths, Ron Love, Mark Elson, Chris Brown need to be exposed on a constant basis for what they are: parasites. May they always be in financial distress, may their health be failing, may they be uneasy, alone and constantly under investigation and may their families suffer for what they have done. With regard to their illegal and fraudulent activity, an update would be appreciated.

• Scott Griffiths, Loretta Griffiths, Brigitte Thewes (Love), Ron Love, Mark Elson and Chris Brown all need to be put in jail for fraud and theft.These parasites should experience financial instability/struggle for the remainder of the their lives, they along with their families should experience health issues as some of us are experiencing due to their diabolical and parasitic dishonesty.They should feel uneasy, unhappy and stressed everyday of their lives.They should lose their homes and struggle.Hoping that the right people have them investigated, especially Scott Griffiths.The money that they all have stolen needs to be found and given back to the honest Zee’s that invested in their sham.Does anyone have an update of what is happening legally with these thieves?

• 18/8 San Antonio posted W. Scott Griffith’s bankruptcy examination online. It is an utterly pathetic performance full of perjury. Hope this gets him jailed. I may hire a lawyer to pursue it myself if he annoys me in any manner.

• forgot the link
  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCSflgsDkCeKMH-JUU8EqXfA

• It’s been years since we closed our two years locations and it still breaks my heart. Watching my father lose his life savings over this will haunt me forever. I can only pray I have the opportunity to come face to face with these scumbags before they rot away.

• What goes around comes around. Brigitte E. Thewes and her husband Andrew J. Thewes filed for Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection on January 15, 2020. See 8:20-bk-10156-TA.

• The video, linked above, of Scott testifying, is fascinating. Keep in mind this was under oath. (Also watched the earlier one that comes up on YouTube with this one.) So many takeaways.

  1) You have to laugh when Scott talks about losing more money than anybody. Scott created this whole mess with major false statements on the FDD.
  2) He takes zero responsibility. Unbelievable.
  3) He talks about receivable from closed stores and rebranded stores. Huh? He timed his bankruptcy because MJ was about to get independent validation that Scott was at fault. Indeed, that judgement resumed with arbitration siding with MJ.
  4) Be blamed “bad apples”, of course. Scott has never taken responsibility in his life it appears. Just ask him. Let’s see. These “bad apples” people believed his FDD, were financially armed by relying on his false documents and yet they are “bad apples” for seeking justice. I guess a bank robber can blame someone calling the police as to why they land up in jail. Incredible
  5) Andrew Hulse was going to be the next owner for all this? (That is except for his subsequently developed under-cutting Griff’s Shave Bar plan that Scott was still planning on launching. A parallel business. Guess he hasn’t wrecked enough people’s life savings.
  6) Scott moves purposely receivables so a secured creditor bank (Center Point?) can’t be paid!
  7) Scott says he always has paid his bills. Ha! Yet related businesses and individuals have reported for well over 3 years that they haven’t been paid by Scott. Look at the context of how so many business relationships have ended with Scott. Consider the evictions and how many times, based on his own experience, he advised others not to pay their landlords or SBA loans. Consider the bankruptcy that preceded this one.
  8) Scott must have a dispute on the amount he owes with about 8 different companies! Really, what is the law of averages that many people are billing him incorrectly at such large dollar amounts?
  9) There are multiple folks filing claims that Scott has never even heard. Again, so much bad luck for one individual. I guess Scott is just a magnate for incorrect billing and entities making up bills. The common theme, Scott is NEVER responsible. It is ALWAYS someone’s fault.

  After watching these videos, I now wonder about testimony under oath, whether it is bankruptcy related or not. General Flynn got in a lot of hot water for potentially making untrue statements.

  In this country, do we have equal application of the law?

• Lucas, you might have the years running together some.

  Word started surfacing around 6 years ago about people, contractors, suppliers not getting paid.

• Who is MJ?

• Never Again,

  To answer your question, he is an American hero.

• How do I get this ding-dong, W. Scott Griffiths to stop showing up at our events? He keeps trying to scam our members into investing in his idiotic ideas.

• Since we are all home now I thought I would pass this on to you. Maybe since you bought your 188 franchise from St. Gregory Development group or St. Gregory Hold Co you lost your life savings. Maybe you had to move or you lost your house all together. Rest assured Lance Freemen from St. Gregory Group / St Gregory Hold Co is sitting comfortable in his 4.1 million dollar house. The lawsuits against St. Gregory Group for fraud does not affect his ability to relax by the pool.
  https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/real-estate/done-deals/2019/12/02/professional-golfer-geoff-oglivy-sells-scottsdale-estate/4323013002/

• ifpg represents this franchiser. no vetting no research only cash

• In their own word from the Executives of STG on their linked in site.

  About
  Todd specializes in franchise recruitment. He is nationally known for his “relationship based” sales techniques. People buy franchises from who they like and trust. Todd never loses site of that mantra in regard to his own sales efforts or the training of employees and clients on behalf of St. Gregory.

  In the franchising world, Todd has also been one of the most successful sales consultants in the country finishing in the top 1% year after year. As a result of his strong relationship based selling and outstanding production, Todd has developed strong, deep rooted contacts within the franchising community that continue to produce explosive results for all of our franchisor clients.

  St. Gregory Development Group is a full service outsourced development engine providing franchisors:
  • Franchise Sales
  • Marketing
  • Operations
  • Legal
  • Compliance
  • Web & Graphic Design

  Our strategic partners provide our franchisors:
  • Real Estate
  • Public Relations
  • Construction Management

• The last 10 minutes are the best from St. Gregory Development Group ( STG Brands / St. Gregory Holding Co.) In case you are wondering how things worked out for them, here you go. Not a word about 188 because it was a failing brand and they only mention the successes.

  https://soundcloud.com/brian-holmes-240089915/7-how-to-think-outside-the-box

  They are dissolving this company now.

• IFPG International Franchise Professional Group represents this franchise. No vetting just cash grab.

• and the fraud continues…
  https://www.ifpg.org/team-view/mark-elson/

• JOKE. This was filmed in June 2019
  and this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRRR84m96ps

• Wow! Not surprising. Chris Brown and Andrew Hulse should be responsible as well. They were covering up for Scott and Ron Love and Brigitte Thewes. Chris Brown and Andrew Hulse are working with Scott again to defraud more people with Ace Griff’s Shave Bar.

• IFPG features this franchise. As with many others that are either emerging or failing no background checks are done before added to the International Franchise Professional Group. Even Franserve, another corrupt organization has couple with Franchise Grade to get some research done on its Franchises listed.

• does anyone have an update as to what these thieves are up to? head con artist – ron griffiths & his sweet, fake wife loretta , the if i hide i’ll be innocent – ron love, academy award winner – bridget thewes, chris brown the clown and the rest of these evil slugs.
  lawsuits on all? pending? like the rest of you nice
  people, still digging out of this mess but hoping these slime buckets get what they deserve. sadness, uncertainty, lawyers fees, loss of homes, no job & that someone just like them steals “our” money from them. update please. peace.

• Ron Love is defending himself by claiming that he only has a grade school education, that he is suffering from health problems, that he is a senior citizen with no future earnings potential, that he did not know that he was listed as the president of Ultimate Brands, Inc. in the FDD, that he was not the co-founder of “18|8”, that he was only paid on an hourly basis by Scott Griffiths to provide coaching on training stylists, that he was a victim of Scott and Loretta Griffits, etc. ad nauseam. He has filed cross claims in pending lawsuits against Scott Griffiths and St. Gregory. And yes, Ron Love is doing all of this despite all the emails, videos, FDDs, etc. in which he is listed or he expressly states/signs as president of Ultimate Brands, Inc. and/or co-founder of 18|8.

• thanks cooper griffiths. are they all living comfortably? im hoping they are buried in legal fees. hoping the lawyers take it all.

• Cooper Griffiths is your case moving forward or on hold.

• Cooper Griffiths is your case moving forward or on hold.

• On 07/06/2020:

  Ultimate Franchises, Inc.
  Bankruptcy Court Docket Sheet
  Central District of California (Bankruptcy)
  8:2020-bk-11909 (cacb)

• International Franchise Professional Group highly promoted franchise amongst broker consultants. For those who entered into a license agreement with Eighteen Eight or Griffs Ace Grooming and Shave Bar you should immediately file suit to at a minimum obtain your franchise fee back from the broker consultant who was complicit in the sale of this franchise and likely not listed in the FDD. It is also possible to file suit against the International Franchise Professional Group for acting as intermediary between the franchise and broker consultants. All this in addition to your losses and FDD violations, if any, against the company itself. See a reputable franchise attorney as soon as possible and one that defends franchisees and not franchisors.

• Have any 18|8 franchisees filed a claim vs. IFPG and/or the broker that introduced them to 18|8? Looks like IFPG is based in NJ, which has a 6-year statute of limitations period for fraud claims (which may not start until you should have first learned of the alleged fraud). If so, did you hire an attorney or file the claim yourself given that you had to purchase the franchise as an individual. Thanks

• I am not aware of a suit.

  I know periodically many franchisees who lost their life savings might occasionally read this site as they pause to reflect on how they got swindled, so here’s a thought: my suspicion is that there has been some serious money to be had by lawsuits occurring after the first group of franchisees prevailed in their departure. The subsequent folks had more information to go on and were not bound by any limiting factors. Of course all settlements have NDAs associated, but keep an eye out for when individual franchisees go dark on communication. It probably means a significant payout. St Gregory, still hoping to sell franchises in CA, may have paid out big bucks. They also don’t want other would be franchisors to know of their ongoing litigation. Maybe 7 figures was the payout from STG. Obviously STG and Lance were complicit in pulling off this fraud where Griffits could not support one cost of goods sold number reported on the FDD. STG clearly knew the financial reporting section was probably the provision that investors would focus on. STG gave 47% as the cost of goods figure. No way they get by with no lifting a finger to look at a single document to support selling over 100 franchisees to people paying $100,000. Throw in how Griffiths was proven to be a liar quickly and easily under oath.

• I told Griffiths this would be my brand. Now it’s my brand. Good riddance to the Grifter.

  Yelp has been removing all my good reviews. Does anyone know what I can do about that? Looking for some advice. Anyone?

• Chris Clown, what reviews? Can you explain a little more? Yelp is so tricky.
  Also, does anyone know the end results of Griffiths and his beloved Loretta, Ron Love, Brown, Brigitte? Im curious to know as they have caused so much grief to so many that I hope they feel our pain x 1000.

• St. Gregory was such a scam as are most “franchise consultants” that are in the business of selling multiple units to overly optimistic customers. I was in the business of assessing risk across a portfolio of franchise brands and one of the #1 red flags pointing to a short-lived brand was outsourced development. It pains me to hear the stories of loss that entrepreneurs have encountered not because of a lack of individual effort and sacrifice but due to the grossly unreasonable expectations set by franchise brands. Hopefully aspiring franchisees see this thread and take a minute to understand how the franchise model works and the divide between hope & reality.

• Has anyone heard of what has become of Scott Griffith?

• Still lives in a 2 plus million dollar house with three Lexus cars in the driveway.