CHILDREN’S ORCHARD: Overview & Links
Originally published May 13, 2009 [EDITOR’S NOTE: This Page is being recreated. Some Links may not be yet be operable]
Children’s Orchard is a chain of franchised resale shops that buy and sell children’s clothing, furniture, and toys. It was founded in 1980 and, in 2004, was acquired by current CEO Taylor Bond and a group of investors.
According to The Orchard Cooperative website: “Since 2004 when Mr. Bond took charge, 23 new stores have opened, more than twice that number, 49, have closed… More than a third of those that closed their doors during Bond’s reign had opened their doors during his reign as well. Their time was short. Each… lost hundreds of thousands of dollars in the process. As if that’s not enough, the franchise invariably and aggressively pursues these owners demanding that they pay them royalties and ad fees for the balance of the ten year franchise period.”
Article Links:
CHILDREN’S ORCHARD: Customer Buys Newburyport Franchise July 24, 2009
CHILDREN’S ORCHARD: A Happy Franchisee? July 16, 2009
CHILDREN’S ORCHARD: Competitor WinMark is Thriving June 6, 2009
CHILDREN’S ORCHARD & Taylor Bond: A Franchise Mystery
CHILDREN’S ORCHARD: Unhappy Franchisees Launch Site
CHILDREN’S ORCHARD: New Site Exposes Blight (Franchise Pick)
Children’s Orchard Website (The Bizop News)
Children’s Orchard: Hyped to the Core? (Franchise Pick)
Comments
40 Responses to “CHILDREN’S ORCHARD: Overview & Links” So Far. Add yours below.
- CHILDREN’S ORCHARD: New Site Exposes Blight : Franchise Pick – Picking the Perfect Franchiseon May 14th, 2009 6:38 am[…] CHILDREN’S ORCHARD: Overview & Links […]
- Children’s Orchard: Hyped to the Core? : Franchise Pick – Picking the Perfect Franchiseon May 14th, 2009 6:44 am[…] a quick example, Webster quotes a past interview with Children’s Orchard CEO Taylor Bond that appeared on franchise advertising portal Franchise Gator. Regarding the […]
- Guest on May 17th, 2009 12:30 pmIf you are a stakeholder in this franchise system, or think you might want to purchase one, then sit down and read this thing carefully and take notes. Don’t be sheeple about this and think that just because someone is a business owner, they are exempt from predatory practices. The contract sizzles with warnings and sirens blare on every page.
- ADMIN on May 31st, 2009 10:05 amCan anyone explain this lawsuit?
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/court-cacdce/case_no-8:2009mc00010/case_id-443917/Children’s Orchard Inc v. Patricia Ann Childs et al
Plaintiff: Children’s Orchard Inc
Defendant: Patricia Ann Childs and Richard A ChildsCase Number: 8:2009mc00010
Filed: May 7, 2009
Court: California Central District Court
Office: Southern Division – Santa Ana Office [ Court Info ]
County: XX US, Outside California
Nature of Suit: Other Statutes – Other Statutory Actions
Cause: Civil Miscellaneous Case
Jurisdiction: Federal Question - Guest on May 31st, 2009 11:01 amyep. A case of a stupid franchisee who stopped paying royality but didn’t stop using the trade name, marks or business system.
There are bad franchisees just as there are bad franchisors.
Actually, this case is both. Bad franchisee, bad franchisor.
- ADMIN on May 31st, 2009 2:47 pmA case of a stupid franchisee who stopped paying royality but didn’t stop using the trade name, marks or business system.
Is Patricia Ann Childs a member of The Orchard Cooperative independent franchisee association? Is her lawsuit related to the TOC website or their campaign?
My guess is no, as I would be surprised if the AAFD or franchisee attorneys counseling TOC wouldn’t have cautioned her that defaulting by withholding royalties but still using the name is a pretty foolish move. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.
I did notice the Childs’ Tustin, CA store is no longer listed on the Children’s Orchard website.
- Guest on June 1st, 2009 9:53 amTo the best of my knowledge, this franchisee kept to herself, was not a member, is in no way associated with the TOC, the website or campaign, and would not accept advice from other franchisees.
BTW, corporate let her hang out there for just about two years before they lowered the boom, (as she had been booted off the CO website in 2007.)
- CHILDREN’S ORCHARD: A Failing Marriage? : Franchise Pick – Picking the Perfect Franchiseon June 10th, 2009 10:24 am[…] Children’s Orchard: One-time lovers become orch-enemies […]
- Guest on June 12th, 2009 1:20 pmHonestly how many lawsuits does Children’s Orchard have going on past and present? These people seem to be in court rather than trying to improve/grow their company and their franchisees. I have seen 4 so far filed this year, between the postings on this website alone. Beware prospective franchisees, this is obviously not a company you want to get mixed up in.
- Unhappy Franchisee: 10 Hottest Topics : Franchise Pick – Picking the Perfect Franchiseon June 13th, 2009 9:20 am[…] Children’s Orchard: Franchisees of a troubled chain started a negative website to get their franchisor’s attention. Unfortunately, the attention is coming in the form of lawsuits – four so far this year. […]
- Guest on June 16th, 2009 10:23 amIt makes it so difficult to describe to readers the “war” like siege franchisees are under.
This is not a case of sour grapes. I implore readers to please go back and read the franchisee agreement comparison posted on the TOC website. The tone and punitive dictates are just the tip of the iceberg.
While remarks posted in this forum about Children’s Orchard can be characterized as negative, I don’t think the TOC website has a negative tone. It is cut and dry.
But at the end of the day, it really does not matter. Taylor Bond is going to steam roll over anyone and everyone “to show the world” who is boss.
- CO Franchisee on June 16th, 2009 12:17 pmAs a CO franchisee I have to agree with the above statements by “Guest” posted on June 16th. The TOC website is not negative, it simply has compiled all the information and laid it out for all to see, one may draw their own conclusions from the information. However, anyone who is business minded in any sense of the word will see the negativity and absolute lucridity of how this franchisor runs things. HIs system would be growing (especially in this economy) and should have been growing since he took over.
- Grace on June 16th, 2009 1:17 pmSorry if I sound like a wet blanket, but this is what happens when folks fall in love with a concept and think the clauses in the franchise agreement don’t apply to them.
My advice to anyone thinking of signing a franchise agreement is to be sure you can live with the consequences of enforcement.
- CO Franchisee on June 16th, 2009 2:31 pmI agree with you Grace. However, the franchisor needs to also uphold his end of the contract, and in more than one case that I know I about, that has not happened. This franchisor has an expceptional way of making himself appear as those he is following the rules, when in reality it is the furthest from the truth. Obviously a franchisor has a few more resources at their disposal than a struggling franchisee. It is a sad state all around.
- Guest on June 18th, 2009 11:46 amDoes this franchisor acknowledge the TOC as the a franchisee organization at all? Don’t most franchisors encourage an oversight group of franchisees to confer with on issues and improvements? Why does this franchisor seem so intent on the franchisees not having a voice?
- Guest on June 18th, 2009 5:46 pmNo, this franchisor does not communicate nor acknowledge in anyway other than being negative, the TOC as an independent franchise association.
Yes, there is a franchisee oversight group under the watchful eye of this franchisor. He determines what topics and issues are valid and worthy of discussion.
He has pre-determined that giving the franchisees a voice, makes him look like a wimp and a loser. They don’t need a voice, it is his business, not the franchisees, and the franchisees must do what he says at all and every cost.
- visitor on June 21st, 2009 8:22 pmHe communicates alright..”see you in court.”
- Kris on June 22nd, 2009 12:38 pmOne of my family members opened a Children’s Orchard under the previous owners. They seemed to be nice people, but when this Taylor Bond guy took over, everything went downhill. They had to spend hundreads of dollars on new registers when the “old” ones worked just fine. The advertising packages were a lot more than the previous ones and he is very strict with what the stores look like. If one little thing is not the way he likes it, then you will experience the wrath of Mr. Bond! This new owner has cost my Dad thousands of dollars, most of his life savings and his “sanity”.
Taylor is a self indulgent business man that cares about nothing but numbers and money to make himself look better. He does not care about his business owners and will sue you for everything you have if you dont live up to his rules. If you are looking to buy into this franchise….run the other way! Dont get caught up like my Dad and countless other did!!! - guest franchisee on June 22nd, 2009 11:28 pmSeems to be a trend, people in this franchise spend their life savings, every second of their time, and then end up in court with the guy who forced the situation in the first place.
- visitor on June 23rd, 2009 8:21 amHave to be honest here. It’s the contract. If you sign a Children’s Orchard franchise agreement, you better understand that the business model is faulty.
Just take a look at a most recent case of a franchisee in Las Vegas, who opened and closed within one year. This franchisee signed an agreement, did what was required, followed the instructions from corporate, and had their clock cleaned by the faulty business model and demand of fees.
Wiped out. Bankrupted. All in one year.
This rogue franchisor requires via the contract, that minimum royalty must be paid quarterly. What this means is that a wet-behind-the-ears franchisee comes out of the shoot with no room to grow. And heaven help them if their location takes a while to respond, because as in the case of the Las Vegas franchisee, they dumped all available cash flow into buying used inventory around the clock which backed them into a corner financially, and when they blinked, their checkbook was empty.
So what does this rogue franchisor do???? He cries but they signed my agreement, and they are bad bad people, I am owed money, I will jump up and down in court until I am paid what I am owed.
Don’t shield your eyes and look the other way. You know who you are. You are the franchisee who knows better and believes that it is easier to “blame the victim” than it is to step up and take a stand against this rogue franchisor. After all you say, I have money invested in this too….and I can’t afford to be singled out by corporate and lose what I have in the process.
So to the readers of this forum, if you don’t understand that the language and requirements in the contract are enforceable, then heaven help you if you think that only bad things happen to the other guy.
Please understand that what you are reading about is trust and good faith taken advantage of by a rogue franchisor who has a perfect right to have his franchise agreement enforced.
- Guest on June 24th, 2009 8:21 amGive me a break!! If I don’t watch out for myself, who will????? Let me tell you a secret, most franchisees lag behind in their royalty payments. Which is a violation of the contract. That is why I don’t do anything that will be noticed.
- guest on June 25th, 2009 12:07 pmExactly, why do you think most franchisees lag behind in their royalty payments, because many owners are struggling and struggling hard, with no help from the franchisor at all. How do you grow a system where many people can’t even pay their bills?
- A Children’s Orchard franchisee on June 30th, 2009 7:13 pmI’ll be glad when my Children’s Orchard franchise agreement ends. Taylor Bond and his staff have run this once great organization into the ground! Check out Taylor Bonds record and you’ll see he has a history of being a failure.
- visitor on July 3rd, 2009 2:03 pmI think what has happened to this franchise would make a good case study of what can go wrong when a franchise system is sold.
The franchisees that signed up under Walt Hamilton ran businesses free from corporate harassment. He appreciated feedback and basically trained franchisees to understand the dynamics of their own locations. He taught to use the business system as a supportive guide line.
Those old franchisees were sold down the river by Hamilton, and he is just as responsible for the demise of this system as much the Bonds are responsible.
- Guest on July 6th, 2009 3:26 amIt is too bad……this concept is a great one and this system should be thriving, if not growing, in an economy where people are trying to save all the money they can. But it is not, something inherently wrong with this particular agreement and model I would say.
- Stacyon July 8th, 2009 9:45 amDoes anyone know who the investers are?
We’re having issue’s w/a different family member and are looking for any business info. - Guest on July 8th, 2009 3:15 pmI don’t know who the investors are, but I would imagine his brother, Adam Bond, who an attorney (and used to be a Selectman in Massachusetts, amid controversy), is one of them. Not really sure, hope others have more info.
- visitor on July 8th, 2009 5:27 pmI do not know for certain, but everything I have researched points to family members as being “investors.”
I strongly believe that if Taylor Bond had to report to a board and/or to investors, he would have been removed as the CEO long ago. His family are enablers, and I do not see any of them having the courage to confront his business practices.
His brother the attorney is on the payroll, so is his wife. I know other family members have visited the corporate offices from time to time. If there are other investors, they must not have not visited the corporate office because it would have been noticeable if a unfamiliar person showed up.
- bob on July 8th, 2009 8:39 pmWhen was the last new franchise sold. And will they ever sell another one?
- Guest on July 8th, 2009 10:56 pmThe last new franchise sold was Las Vegas-Summerlin in which signed in August 2007 and opened in February 2008 (those owners have already closed after just one year of being open) and Apple Valley California which signed in June of 2007 and opened in March 2008. I do not know of any other NEW franchises.
- guest-2on July 9th, 2009 1:56 pmJust FYI, check out Cathy Marks info on Linkedin.com. Her interests are: career opportunities,new ventures,job inquiries, business deals and consulting deals!
- Children’s Orchard store owner on July 9th, 2009 5:55 pmThe last new store opened Nov 22, 2008 in Roseville, CA. I went by their store a month or so ago and the McCues arn’t impressed with their first year or with the help they’ve recieved from Ann Arbor.
- Rufus on July 11th, 2009 11:52 amThis note is for prospective franchisees, if there could be any left at this point:
You need only to know that Taylor Bond is a Taker, and a greedy one at that. Not content to collect the royalty and advertising fees that were corporate’s primary sources of income when he bought the company and became it’s President, he has found introduced several additional ways of unilaterally taking money from franchisees. The include such things a “territory fees”, “minimum weekly and annual royalty fees”, “handing out cache cards to customers for store credit (on which royalties are collected) for signing up to be on a local store’s email”, “handing out cache cards to customers for store credit (on which royalties are collected) when the customers are already pleased to be shopping in one of our stores, etc. The list goes on . . . In my experience it is not an option for Mr. Bond to give his franchisees anything — unless he himself will profit from the transaction, at his franchisees’ expense.
Apparently, his parents never told him the story of the Golden Goose, who would have kept on giving if the owner has been appreciative and not greedy.
- visitor on July 11th, 2009 12:40 pmDoes anyone know how to find a 2009 FDD for this franchise. I am not interested in calling corporate directly, and my state does not keep FDD’s on file.
- visitor on July 13th, 2009 12:35 amYou’ll have to go through the corporate office for that. Just tell them your interested in opening a franchise and they’ll send it right out. They are very helpful at the outset!
- Peteon July 13th, 2009 11:40 pmIn the past, you were able to get the FDD’s from California Secretary of State on line. They would be the same no matter what state you get it from. Good luck.
- visitor on July 14th, 2009 8:24 amThanks Pete, someone else pointed me to a State of California Securities website too, but I didn’t have any luck. I found 2008, but no 2009 FDD. Maybe this franchisor is no longer selling in California?
- guest on July 15th, 2009 3:43 pmcould be, I wish we could see one of the 2009 versions, be interesting to see how many units they say they have open, as opposed to the true number of units.
- guest on July 15th, 2009 3:44 pmCould be, I wish we could see one of the 2009 versions, be interesting to see how many units they say they have open, as opposed to the true number of units. I know several stores have closed since the beginning of 2009
- CHILDREN’S ORCHARD: Customer Buys Newburyport Franchise | Unhappy Franchiseeon July 24th, 2009 8:39 am[…] relationship between Children’s Orchard franchise owners and their franchisor (See CHILDREN’S ORCHARD: Overview & Links). Despite the growth of competing resale franchise chains, unhappy franchisees fault […]
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CHILDREN’S ORCHARD FRANCHISE? SHARE A COMMENT* BELOW.
I am a franchisee that wishes to close after just 3 years of operation. The day I notified them of my closure they sent an email out to my MOMs club listing offering to sale the store. The email contained a fake story about why the store was being sold (my wanting to spend more time with my kids) and was signed with my name. They sent it out again today…. again with the impression that I was the one sending it out!!! I have forwarded both to my attorney!!! The day this is all over will be the happiest day of my life!!!!
I am not surprised by their actions.
If their business model wasn’t a set-up for failure, maybe you wouldn’t be closing after 3 years. I am sorry for your trouble, for you and your family.
All they are looking for is a bunch of cash cows they can bully.
There are good franchises, this is NOT one of them.
Good Luck in your future.
I’m sorry that you experienced a business failure or some incident that made it necessary for you to close down your store.
Apparently, the franchisor wants to “churn” your store to another franchisee but it is surprising that they would advertise the store for sale, as if it were you, and I think it is smart that you have forwarded this to your attorney. Apparently, you will not have “lease” obligations after you close down ?? that could cost you additional money.
I used to have my own comments (klind of my own blog) on this site but I guess they were removed in the recent “hacking” of the Franchise Pick Unhappy Frasnchise Site. .
I think you were probably a victim of “The Great Franchising Robbery” and you can read about this on my new blog, which is http://thegreatfranchisingrobbery.blogspot.com/
Good luck to you and spread the word about the “Great Beast of Franchising.”
Unfortunately you are not alone, several stores close after just a couple of years, one after only a year. This a faulty system, but a great concept. It is being run into the ground by the owners and good, smart, and responsible people’s lives are being completely ruined!!!
I wondered what had happened. I guess there are some franchisors who are computer savvy. I know that this one is. I am glad to see the chat up and running again, it has been a source of comfort to learn that I am not the only one to have (or had) huge problems with the staff and ownership of this franchisee. Every time I would write or call about my concerns, I would always be told that I was the only one in the system who had those concerns. I felt like a failure. And really do to some extent still. I know that many stores have closed and there might be more ahead, but I always look at the ones that seem to be going gangbusters and having great success and I wonder what I did wrong.
Thanks for putting this back together.
Cathy Marks is the master of saying “Really, we have never heard that before” and “You are the only one with that problem”. Get on the phone with other franchisees and you will find that just about everyone is having the same PROBLEM(S). This is a franchise that will never work as long as the same people are there in Ann Arbor!
Does anyone who posts here have an opinion about how sincere this franchisor is in growing his system??
When was the last year that a brand new location was sold?
I am suspicious about the motives of this franchisor. At first I thought he was just into churning territories, but in order for that to happen, wouldn’t he have to sell new locations?
I think the franchhisor is sincere about growing the system but I am not convinced the franchise has the right team and capabililty to grow the system. The franchise was bought with over 100 stores and today it is less than 60. This would give you one of two impressions. Either 40% of the owners were inept, or the franchisor didn’t understand the franchise he bought. The franchisors have to be in a panic. Over 50% of their store gross receipts are gone due to store closures. This means income is gone and not replaced and the value of their investment has been drastically dropped. So to drive their franchise fees, they have adjusted the CORP program and have been vigously pursuing late fees. Which they have never done before. The remaining franchisees have to be in a panic as they have seen the value of their investment slowly diminish with the possible exception of the top five stores.
With the right leadership and team, this franchise can become a powerful franchise. It is set to (1)capitalize on the green concept as it recycles kids items and (2) capitalize on this tough recession as the cost of merchandise is 50% to 80% below retail value and they pay sellers a fair price to recycle items.
One of the basic concepts taught in training is those owners who are working in their store and not on their store are setting themselves up for stagnant growth. Sitting in Ann Arbor to focus on a website, e-mail templates, a repetative advertising campaign, and tallying KIDS system information every week does not make for an active franchisor. It mirrors a store owner who is working in their store and not on their store.
The website looks great and the M.O.M.S. club concept is very popular and drives traffic. The $35/$10 concept is a very expensive avenue to create traffic with the franchisee bearing all cost. We figured out the cost of one $10 cache card. The cost of the card itself, the cost to load the card, the cost to redeem the card, the cost of the merchandise bought with the card, the taxes due on the sale, the royalty and ad fee due on the sale. It could cost the franchisee a minimum of $7 in cash to redeem a cashless card. Under this concept, it could cost a miminum of $7 to bring in one customer. The franchisee can print a flyer with a $10 coupon for pennies, come out ahead in cash retention and still make the sale. Advertising is key for growth, but there has to be consideration for return on investment.
Sending corporate for store visits is merely a checklist process. It does create similarities among stores and does help with branding. But whether the store has a round bar vs a straight bar has no bearing on the ability to sell a Childrens Place shirt for $3.99.
Rather instead there should be a focus on how reduce cost of operations. For example, ideas to improve the inventory process. We analyzed the franchisor concept of “Get it in, get it hung, get it sold”. Great concept on paper. We counted how many times a piece of merchandise is touched before it finally hits the floor. Once to examine, twice to ring, third to sort in the bin, fourth to take out of the bin to tag and handwrite sizes, fifth to hang, sixth to steam, 7th to size on the floor to sell. If the merchandise needs to go to storage, then there is a whole other process involved. The color tag system is good, but confusing especially if there is a special event. Then there is the whole mark down/filler bag processing. We realized that the cost of labor it takes to process our merchandise and to store our merchandise is a multiple of the cost we have in selling the merchandise. There has to be a better way to make this more efficient and less cost prohibitive.
I have a feeling that those stores that are successful have probably embraced the Childrens Orchard concept and then improved upon it to fit their unique store in their respective area. They are catering to their local market and effectively managing their costs. And as those stores are the ones that are carrying the franchise, they probably aren’t getting much grief from corporate when the store does stray to use a round bar instead of the franchise approved straight bar.
Sorry for the length of discussion. If you made it to the end of this, then I am complimented you thought my comments worth the read.
While I certainly appreciate your in-depth perspective, it didn’t quite address question the poster on Sept. 29th asked.
Your answer was from the inside, operational side of this business.
I think the question that was asked, “why no new blood, where are the new stores?” It is not the economy, because the competition has experienced growth, this system has not.
This owner has been told for the past 3 years that his contract is a huge problem. Although existing stores have been re-sold, the new owners were drooling at the going price and disregarded the contract because of the fire sale.
I disagree strongly when you say that the “successful” stores “have probably embraced the Childrens Orchard concept and then improved upon it to fit their unique store in their respective area. They are catering to their local market and effectively managing their costs.”
Here is why I disagree. The top store in California, and in fact for many years the top store in the system, was a mess. It didn’t look anything like any other store in the system. In fact, it could easily be mistaken for a thrift store at first glance. What that store had was a unique territory. The owners/operators of the top stores all share the same quality, their unique territory. Their ownership styles vary, and following the business system is all over the map. They key to their success is for one reason and one reason only, their territory. One store actually has a territory so dense, that is has 17 grade schools. How can a store with sales in the bottom, that only has 8 grade schools in it’s territory compare???
The stores with less dense territory’s used to be able to make it on some level before this new owner took charge. It was his wacky and costly promotions that helped sink the marginal stores.
You are right on when you say the franchisor did not understand the business he bought. But he is in his 6th year of ownership, and he has made it very clear he is not interested in “getting it.” So does he really want to grow the system? If so.
“Where are the new stores?”
Taylor Bond likes to put his picture on the internet and and say he is going to grow to 300 stores. That is what he does. He wants to look successful even if he is not. And everyone knows he is not going to do it but there goes the ad fund boosting his ego. It is safe to say there will be no new “successful” stores. Anyone stupid enough to buy into a system like this will not have the smarts to make it successful.
Great points to make. It is difficult to sell something when numbers are against your favor. If you google Taylor, his vision of growing over 300 from 100 stores is well documented. If you go to the C.O. website, and the store count is less than 60. This fact alone is extremely hard to overcome. And blogs such as this one doesn’t help either.
People want to be a part of a success story. They aren’t interested if the owners have having to work 60 – 70 hours a week, with zero cash draw but the franchisor gets his cut regardless, and the voice of the unhappy franchisee can be heard from coast to coast. As an investor, I would walk away in today’s environment.
One way to overcome these large obsticles is for the franchisor to retrench, think strategically, and start investing in the current stores. Challenge the territory lines and drive traffic that will benefit the bottom line as this is what feeds the flock. Come up with innovative ideas to reduce overhead costs, creating increased cash flow. Once owners start seeing increased cash flow and increased gross sales, you will start to create positive momentum. This will provide additional funding for the corporate group. Maybe enough to hire regional managers which will create unity in the local market and agressively pursue new investors vs. relying on internet only. Your internal franchisees are your best advertisement to grow the franchise.
Keep them happy, and others wil come.
Cathy Marks is the master of saying “Really, we have never heard that before” and “You are the only one with that problem”. Get on the phone with other franchisees and you will find that just about everyone is having the same PROBLEM(S). This is a franchise that will never work as long as the same people are there in Ann Arbor!
I am very happy I found this site. I was deep into my due dillengence with this franchise when I found this site. I understand now why I felt I was getting very defensive answers to my questions or no anwers at all.
THANK YOU for saving me and my family a lot of money.
It would be interesting to know if you were looking at a resale or a new location.
I know of a few locations that are up for sale, and if not sold, will close. Soon.
This franchisor’s contract is criminal. Good people, running good operations, who can not and will not sign such a contract under renewal terms, are experiencing financial ruin.
Just think about this for one moment. You make a substantial financial investment in this franchise. You work very very hard and reach a level of success and then in waltzes new ownership that destroys the good-will and good business sense in just a few years. Faced with signing a criminal franchise agreement renewal, you chose to go bust.
This is happened and is happening. This is not myth, or bad franchisees or a stupid business system. Good franchisees can overcome a stupid business system. What they can’t over come is signing the criminal renewal or if they are neebies, overcoming the criminal financial clauses of the agreement they signed after much eye-rolling from corporate, that those clauses really don’t mean that much.
Criminal.
KK, we are SO very glad you found this website also, thank goodness you did and realized how very horrible it would be to end up in this mess of a franchise. Great concept, horrible franchise!
Looking for a franchise?? Then before you invest your life’s savings, break the bank, and mortgage your home……do your research. Read, call and search for all the information you can find.
Once you fall in love with a concept, then blindness take over, and you hunker down thinking “I am different than they are” – “I can get along, I can live with the contract because I will succeed.”
Better think again.
Well.. I closed.. I was the one that posted awhile ago about them sending out the email with my name on it offering the store for sale. I was using an attorney based in Washington, DC that has helped many of the CO owners close with little or no settlement. He knows the contract and understands how to deal with Taylor and Adam Bond. About 2 weeks ago he received a phone call from Adam Bond informing him that they would no longer deal with an attorney not licensed in the state my store was operating in!!!!!! So they are playing hardball… he has represented many other stores.. and WON.. so now they decide to try to make him go away.
Chew on that for a little while and let me know how it makes you feel!!!!!!!!!
Counted the stores on the website… down to 56!!!
only 56 left? is it the economy? how many stores need to be operating for the franchisor to break even? any chance he will be bought out?
The only way they could be “bought out” is if they had a fire sale and sold rock bottom.
Ain’t gonna happen.
This system is going backwards! Taylor Bond lost 20 years of development in 6 years. The last time the system was at 56 stores was just about 20 years ago! How sick is that?
They are meeting their break even how? Could it be that they are running other businesses out of their corporate office?
Back in March one story said there were 73 open. Now there are 56?
17 stores closed in less than a year? Is that right? Or are some operating under different names?
Is there a list of the stores that closed in 2009? Can people post the stores they know about here?
Officially, at the end of 2008 there were 62 open and running.
6 have closed since the end of 2008. There may be more closing in the next few months.
Which 6 stores closed in 2009? Does anyone know?
A franchisee named Stephanie posted that she closed January 31, 2009 because of the CPSIA law “We owned a franchised resale store, Children’s Orchard… The law forced us to close, and though the franchisor is still in business, we could not be part of it. We are not getting any support from the franchisor…” http://overlawyered.com/2009/03/cpsia-we-are-sorry-to-report/
Merchant Circle lists 12572 Westheimer Rd Houston, TX 77077 as closed
“This great store closed down this weekend.9/20/09” http://www.merchantcircle.com/business/Childrens.Orchard.281-558-2229/review/read?cid=798600
Las Vegas – Summerlin closed at the beginning of the year after just a year in business
LR announced in his/her Nov. 3 post that they closed their store.
Consumers have caught on that this franchise is a bad deal to invest in, otherwise brand new locations would have popped up. It’s the most restrictive contract out there and a person would have to be out of their minds to get hooked up with the group of white collar thugs that own and run this system. Run away as fast as you can!!
Children’s Orchard franchise is a dead horse. The jockey’s used the whip and the horse rebelled. Rest in peace.
it isn’t quite dead yet, it seems the stores are starting to show some uptick in volume and sales
really? Children’s Orchard, the franchisor, not the stores is the one knocking on deaths door.
Who in their right mind would sign that agreement?
Another one closed, this time in AZ. Anyone know what happened to this one?
“Who in their right mind would sign that agreement.” —
Indeed! Those who are up for renewal underdstand the malice of the terms of the franchise agreement because they have lived through it but newbies don’t understand the terms and believe the franchise agreement is NOT negotiable and do sign these agreements in good faith believing that the franchisor is selling the franchise in good faith and cannot profit unless they profit. Big mistake that franchisees make and find out the hard way!
The Children’s Orchard Cooperative has done a good job of communicating the performance problems of this franchise to fellow franchisees and, hopefully, to new prospects who will read the website. We can hope that this website will encourage other franchisee associations to sponsor their own websites on which they can discuss their unit performances and the franchise agreement with other franchisees and warn new prospects before they put their signature to that bottom line, The right of free speech for franchisees has not been removed under the terms of the adhesory franchise contract — in terms of franchisees talking about their own UNIT experience. This poses a threat to the franchisors whose attorneys are trying to find out how to shut down these kind of websites.
Please read “Disadvantages of Buying a New Franchise for Prospective Franchisee” in a Google Search. Also, “Franchise Regulation Realities — Deception or Patriotism?” and “Buying a Franchise! The Great Franchise Hoax – A Business of Your Own” in a Google Search.
http://thegreatfranchisingrobbery.blogspot.com/
Thanks Carol! I believe that information is power and I appreciate the link you posted. Hoax indeed! Franchises are the new shell game.
has anyone done any sort of analysis on what the healthcare reform may mean to the current franchise owners?
I loved Children’s Orchard and the one on Oracle and Magee in Tucson, AZ closed because the owners retired to Colorado to spend more time with their grandchildren.
As I understand it, that location was financially successful. Lots of business owners retire and sell their successful operations.
Why didn’t it get sold instead of closing?
How many more will close? Predictions?
Florida gone and another in Nevada… down to 53.
Was thinking about inquiring on an opportunity to puchase an established C’sO Store but after reading all the post on this website I’m not so sure… It seems to be a really nice opportunity to have my own business as i always dreamed of but is it worth it? lol…
Thanks for your post Carol, I will def read more into it before I get myself into something I’ll regret later!
God Bless All…
Dear Theresa: Please understand that the experience and warnings have nothing to do with the opportunity but has everything to do with the franchisor, and his contract.
Frankly speaking, it is not worth your time, money and heartache to be involved with this franchisor.
Yes, I do understand that we are talking about the franchisor- Do you or have you delt with this franchisor direct? Or are you commenting on hearsay?
Hi Teresa, we are one of the 53 stores remaining. If you are truly interested, I would recommend several steps: 1) Talk with the existing owner – ask for 3 years of financial records, don’t be afraid to ask the tough questions 2) Talk to other owners within your area 3) Compare the financial information to the franchise expectations to make sure they compare 4) Hire a lawyer to read, analyze, and consult on both the franchise agreement and the lease agreement before you sign on the dotted line. Once you are in, it is a 10 year committment regardless of the term of your lease so you may find yourself having to renegotiate a lease or find a new spot for the store 6) If you are acquiring an underperforming store, make sure you have another source of income as it may take a couple of years before you start seeing any positive cash flow 5) As in any entrepaunerial endeavor, you will be eating, breathing, living, sleeping your store. This is both a selling business and a buying business so you will be essentially running two businesses in one. Plan on working 7 days a week. As any small business owner will tell you, the upside to this is the more you invest of yourself, the higher your return. Owning your own business is not for the meek at heart, it takes a lot of hard work and dedication. With this being said, we love owning our store. We worked hard to turn around an under performing store. We take pride in the fact that we learn more year over year and this has helped to keep us growing.
Theresa:
“guest” provides good advice.
In addition, talk to as many owners as you possibly can, even outside your area.
Also, check out the C.O. franchisee association site to see the AAFD analysis of the Franchise Agreement and other issues posted there:
http://www.orchardcooperative.org/
Theresa, my experience is not hearsay, but direct. My experience is with the previous ownership and the current ownership.
The post above at 6:00 PM gives advice about steps you should take to learn for yourself if this is a good business deal or not and about working hard.
That post stops short because it does not mention one word about the contract pitfalls.
My warning is “don’t sign a contract with this franchisor.” Period.
As far as having an attorney “fine tooth comb” the contract….I know for a fact that plenty of franchisees have done that and were failed by their attorney’s. Many have closed their store because of the contract.
These franchisors are smart people. But when they started seeing that franchisees were not lambs and asked questions, they moved from being smart business people, to control freaks. They desired absolute control over everything they could think of and they have ruined this franchise because they abandoned good business practices and put all of their effort into writing a contract that is punitive and one-sided. (as most franchise contracts are).
Don’t take it from me, take it from the history of how this system has plummeted and spiraled downward since 2004 when the current owners took over.
At the end of the day, there is more information than ever about the dealings of this franchisor. Be thankful you have the information.
Many good and sweet people with families have been financially ruined because they loved the concept and were blind to the hard hitting reality of the contract they signed.
I don’t care how smart you are or how hard you work. This contract is criminal.
I’m thankful to have found this website. I’m the type of person who loves to do my research before doing anything. Thank you for the post on January 18th, 2010 12:44 pm – You were being very frank… I totally fall under the catagory of the description you posted “Many good and sweet people with families have been financially ruined because they loved the concept and were blind to the hard hitting reality of the contract they signed” ~ Blinded into thinking we are doing a little to help the Earth etc… Being GREEN! lol… but o’well I’ll look into opening my own little store without the “Franchise Drama” God Bless All!
The contracts seem “criminal” when franchisees are subject to some of the malicious terms but not defined as such by the courts who routinely uphold these take-it-or-leave-it unilateral contract terms, that favor the franchisors and the survival of the franchisors’ systems and their profits, as the legal means of implementing federal regulatory policy.
Case law has been built since 1979, when the Franchise Rule was promulgated, to protect the franchisors, even as they encroach on and destroy their own franchisees, as necessary, under the terms of the malicious contracts.
The routine franchise agreement(?), the contract of sale of the franchise rights, has been designed to be “invincible” and to protect franchisors from charges by franchisees that they were fraudulently induced to contract by misrepresentations and omissions in the sales process concerning the risk of their investment in the franchise.
The franchisor may even point out some of the risks, etc..in the FDD and the contract, but it appears that they are permitted, under regulation, or believe they are permitted under regulation to withhold negative material facts concerning UNIT performance that if disclosed to the new buyers would kill the sale of the franchise.
In my opinion, it is difficult to overcome the constructive fraud of an inadequate and deceptive government mandated disclosure circular, the FDD, and the adhesory and un-bargained take-it-or-leave-it franchise contract that are packaged together. Once a franchisee signs the agreement, all of a franchisee’s legal rights appear to have been surrendered to the “greater good” of those who have the influence to determine the “greater good.”
For those of you interested in The Rule of Law and Franchise Contracts and the FTC Franchise Rule, please take a look at the Amicus Briefs of the International Franchise Association (the IFA) and the American Association of Franchisees and Dealers (AAFD) concerning the Peaberry Coffee Litigation in the Colorado Court of Appeals.
A copy of the Appeal is available on Blue Mau Mau, as provided by Janet Sparks, and the IFA amicus brief can be found in a Google Search. I believe the AAFD Amicus brief in support of the franchisees is available upon request to the AAFD.
Knowledge is power and the law belongs to the people.
Read: Ezine Articles — “Franchise Regulation Realities — Deception or Patriotism” and “Disadvantage of Buying a New Franchise for prospective Franchisee” in a Google Search.
http://thegreatfranchisingrobbery.blogspot.com/
I worked in a Children’s Orchard for over 10 years – and I have to agree w/ everything visitor2 has had to say – the old ownership and contract was a pleasure to work with. The owner of the franchise was behind the small business owner 100%. After the turnover of the franchise in ’04 – we seemed to lose all sense of individuality — Had no one-on-one help (yes – the new owners didn’t even bother to learn our names) Running our delightful business became a headache.
I loved the store and concept – but can no longer support it knowing the deception behind the front door!
I get your point.
Basically anyone who signs a franchise agreement contract better understand that they are NOT an independent business person. The contract ties them to the franchisor in such a way that they are working FOR the franchisor, not themselves as they mistakenly might have believed.
Visitor2! You got it. Well said! The franchisor, under the franchise business model, has all of the advantages of an employer-owner of your business and none of the expense or risk involved in building and operating your physical business. All of this is accomplished under the routine and malicious un-bargained franchise contract witten by best attorneys that money can buy!
Even the Congressional Advocacy Committee of the SBA advised the FTC that a franchisee isn’t an entrepreneur and isn’t buying a “business of his own” in the true sense of the words. (See Wikipedia Article on Franchising for citation of this letter) Yet, the SBA guarantees millions and millions of dollars in loans for franchisees that in turn subsidize the franchisors who can’t qualify for SBA. guaranteed loans because they are selling intangibles — territories and vague promises of support.
Read “Buying a Franchise. The Great Franchise Hoax! A Business of Your Own?” in a Google Search.
http://thegreatfranchisingrobbery.blogspot.com/
Thanks Carol. All of this is very helpful. I only wish this information was so publicly and readily available 7 years ago.
You folks who stumble onto this information are fortunate. I hope you appreciate having the opportunity to read and learn about franchises from those who have walked the walk.
I agree we are fortunate… I would have made a very costly mistake if it wasn’t for this site. IT HAS SERVED IT’S PURPOSE!
God Bless.
To Theresa: Thank you for letting people know that this site helped you to not make a mistake.
Another store will be closing at the end of this month. Net result is zero growth and a 40% loss. Now they have a corporate on-line store with over inflated prices. This does not compute. The University of Michigan should be ashamed of their association with these jokers and revoke their degrees.