CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story
The American dream of owning your own successful business seems to be going up in smoke for a lot of the Curves Franchise owners. The story you are about to read may seem like a Steven King horror novel but it is a real story that has happened to my wife and I. To all of the past, present and future owners of a Curves franchise please take the time to read the whole story as at the end we explain what we plan to do and how you as an ex or present owner may want to get involved.
My wife and I had owned and operated our own business for over 20 years and had been very successful at doing so. While we were making a great income from our business there was something missing in our life. Neither us felt that we were contributing to society but just taking and we decided to make a major change in our life. That was when we heard about Curves for Women. It was a new franchise that only had 300 or so clubs and for the first time in years we both became excited at the prospect of actually helping people reach their goals. We bought our first club in 1997 located in a city of thirty thousand. From the first day it opened it was more successful than our wildest dreams. Not only were we making excellent money but the personal rewards helping people better their lives was a truly rewarding feeling. I can still remember as if it was yesterday the first time a Dr. of one of our members came in to check out what we were doing as he couldn’t believe the ch
anges his patient had gone through. She had gotten off her high blood medication and had lost over 40 pounds in 4 months. It was truly amazing and over the years we have seen it happen numerous times over and over.
We sold our first club in 2001 and bought two more franchises. My wife became a mentor for Curves International around this time and I was helping to sell franchise for Curves International as so many of are members wanted to own a club. It was at this time that we started to see problems arising with Curves International but we attributed it to the fast growth that Curves was going through. In 2002 we bought two more franchises but this time they were in what was called a metro-area instead of city under thirty thousand in population.
The first problem we encountered with Curves International was in early 2003. Curves sold a franchise that was a corridor of land between one of our franchise’s and the next city 8 miles from our southern boarder. It was obvious to us that the territory didn’t have the necessary population to support a facility and that Curves International was selling any location just out of greed and the fact that there were so many people who wanted a franchise. The people who bought that franchise tried to open up on our border but it had always been an unwritten but followed rule of Curves International that you open in the middle of your territory so that disputes between owners over stealing members from your territory didn’t arise. We immediately filed a complaint with Curves International and they stopped the new owner from opening at that location. Unfortunately for the new owners there were no other commercial locations between the two cities so they were forced into selling that franchise back to Curves International for a loss.
It was also at this time that Curves International started to change personnel. The employee’s who we had a personal relationship with that had started Curves International with Gary Heavin were leaving the company at an alarming rate. Seven employees that were the top management of Curves left or were forced out because of Gary Heavin’s greed. They ended up filling a law suit against Curves which was later settled out of court. It was at this time that Diane Heavin became involved with Curves and a whole new history was being written about how Curves was started. The original Curves member guide which was written by Gary Heavin and June Manley was taken off the market and the new Curves book authored by of course Gary Heavin was on the top 10 of the Times best seller list.. To make sure it was on the Times best seller list all the clubs had to order at least on case. That is when we as owners realized Heavin was a manipulator and not the born again Christian he portrayed to be. It was also at this time that the price to buy a franchise more than doubled in price. This came as quite a surprise as Heavin had always maintained that he would never ever increase his franchise price and he even swore on the bible in front of a group at club camp that he would never break his word on that. Well as we all know he didn’t keep that promise for long, which just shows his greed.
At this point my wife and I became quite concerned and even considered selling our business but other problems arose concerning Curves International that demanded our full attention. In 2004 another Curves location located on our boarder of one of our metro-areas hired two of our employees and stole around 15 members from our club. Both employees had signed the anti covenant not to compete and in our state those agreements are strictly enforced by the courts. We considered going to court but since it was another Curves facility we decided to file a complaint with Curves International. And to let them handle it. What a mistake that was as they did nothing. We transferred the members files but refused to transfer the money for the members dues until such time that Curves International responded to our complaint. We were told by the area director, which was a new position at Curves International, that we were trouble makers and he refused to send any of are clubs the members appreciation bags. Shortly thereafter Curves International resold the corridor of land that had been sold back to them at a loss from the previous owners and they allowed the new owners to open up in nearly the same location that they had refuse the previous owners only a year and a half before. The new owners advertised in our area and ended up getting 10 or 11 members to transfer to their club. Again we held their monthly dues but did transfer the members files. We immediately filed a complaint but again got the same response nothing. It didn’t take long for most of the members who transferred to come back to our club as the other location was small and in a very run down area and to this day that club has not shown a profit and has been sold numerous times over the years for little to nothing.
Then in 2005 the real problems with Curves International started that we are still contending with today. In one of our metro-areas a competitor by the name of Ladies Workout Express opened up right across the street from our location. Unknown to us they had hired our manager and one other employee from that location and when the employee’s left they had stolen off our computer our member files. They ended up stealing over two thirds of our membership with in a week. The employees had signed the covenant not to compete so we immediately hired a lawyer and prepared for a lawsuit. As I stated before in our state that agreement is strictly enforced but it took four months to get it into court. During this time that location was losing so much money that we decided to move the location next to our other territory so that both clubs could stay open. We sent in the required change of location form to Curves International but never heard anything back from them so we went ahead and relocated in late 05. The owners of the Ladies Workout Express eventually went broke because of the lawsuit and the fact that they would end up owing us monetary damages. They filed for bankruptcy to prevent us from collecting any monetary awards in Dec 05 but we did have the satisfaction knowing that we did what was right
In early 06 we were informed by Curves International that because we abandon that location they were terminating all of our franchise agreements. We immediately requested mediation for all of our clubs which is authorized by our franchise agreements with Curves International. We never heard back from them so we hired a lawyer in Waco, TX to represent us. He proceeded to send them a letter requesting the same mediation process and they did respond to him. They sent him letter stating that it was premature to go through the mediation process at that time as they were in the process of researching our reason for moving. Curves International continued to debit our account for the franchise and advertising fees for all the other clubs we owned but stopped talking the fees for the one territory that they stated we abandoned. The lawyer had us send Curves International a check for the fees and a new authorization form for them to deduct it from our account. Neither our lawyer or ourselves ever heard anything back from Curves International so we all assumed that things were back to normal.
In the spring of 07 we made the decision to start selling off all of our clubs and to completely retire. It didn’t take me long to sell the club we owned that wasn’t in a metro-area and I agreed to stay with the new owner’s to help train them how to run the business. We sent all the documentation into Curves International and the sale was completed by January 08. That freed my wife and I up to concentrate on our metro-area clubs and to get them ready for sale. In Feb of 08 we heard that a Curves club was opening in one of our territories within a mile of our current club. We could not understand how Curves International could do such a thing. We again filed a complaint by phone and e-mail to Curves International and several weeks later we were informed by e-mail that they didn’t know what we were talking about. We were told we didn’t own any franchises and hadn’t since we were terminated in 05. That came as quite a shock to my wife and I as our franchise and advertising fee’s had been deducted all along from our checking account and we had just recently sold a club that they were telling us we never owned. We had a local lawyer send a letter to the new owners explaining the situation and that we would be seeking legal recourse against Curves International and depending on the outcome they were opening themselves up to a potential lawsuit. During this time we had bought and paid in full for the Smart Equipment for Curves International and were waiting for the installation which was scheduled for the June 24th. On June 20th , a Friday we received a phone message telling us that the Curves Smart Installation was canceled and that we had to call Curves legal for an explanation. We left messages both e-mail and phone every 30 minutes on Monday June 23rd and finally late in the afternoon we received an e-mail stating that one of there lawyers would be in touch with us before the end of the day, They never sent an e-mail or a phone call as was promised but by mid day the next day they did respond by e-mail. It stated because of the problems with the members transfers, the fact that we abandoned a franchise, and that we had interfered with the opening of the new franchise located in our territory we weren’t approved for the Curves Smart. Yet in late May they had sent all the promotional ad material for the Curves Smart and of course we had gone to a considerable amount of expense for training the employees, advertising and promotion of the Curves Smart equipment. It was at this point that my wife and I decided that drastic action had to be taken against Heavin and Curves International.
While we still love the concept of Curves we feel that because of the deceptive and we believe fraudulent business practices that Heavin has allowed under his management Curves will eventually end up in the toilet so to speak. After spending many hours on the internet we have found that there are many lawsuits against this man and his company. Just read some of the post’s that are on franchisepick.com from owners concerning the new ten thousand fee if your club goes under and closes to the vitamins that were sold in Feb and March by Ideas in Action at a discount to owners without telling them that they would expire at the end of May. The lack of support and communication from Curves International that all of us owners are going through is intolerable. It is impossible for an owner to get through to them on the phone and good luck if you expect a call back in a timely manor. The fact that we as owners pay a lot of money for our advertising fees and have no accounting of where it is spent and a quite frankly we never see many ads in our area.
I have taken the time to do the necessary research to find several good lawyers who handle franchise law who are more than willing to help Curves owners who are having similar problems with Curves. I for one am going to go after Curves International and Gary Heavin in a court of law. These are not class action but group action lawsuit and if you don’t understand the difference contact me and I will explain it to you. There have been over 200 such lawsuit filed against Curves in the last several years and while some have been settled in mediation others are in the process of going to litigation. If you are a past or present Curves owner who has experienced these problems and want satisfaction whether it be monetary or revenge please contact me. We have several options that we can go and I for one am positive we will win as the other lawsuits have been successful so far and have set a precedent for ours. It is time for the owners of Curves franchises either past or present to stand up together and put a stop to Heavins’s ramped destruction of peoples lives just for monetary greed.
Thanks for reading our post and God Bless you all.
ARE YOU AN CURVES FRANCHISE OWNER OR FORMER CURVES FRANCHISEE?
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CURVES FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITY?
PLEASE SHARE A COMMENT BELOW.
So here is what unhappy wants CI to do:
– “spend our advertising money an ads”
– “help the club owners build revenue streams”
– “lower the franchise and advertising fee”
– “not rip the club owners off on wellness members or excessive charges for merchandise”
– “answer the phones when a club has problem”
– “enforce the contract and stop neighborhood clubs from advertising in your protected territory.”
– “tell the truth to the owners”
– “run (CI) with ethics, moral, integrity”
Here’s a question for you all. Let’s say CI does what unhappy wants: runs more ads, lowers their fees, answers the phone, keeps franchisees from poaching members, Keeps Olivia Newton John off the wall, tells the truth, etc.
Will your clubs then be successful? Will women stop being bored going around in circles? Will unemployment drop and income rise? Will that stop you from getting undercut by Planet Fitness?
Can CI really fix the problems that are killing owners, or is the franchisor just a convenient scapegoat for your problems.
With Howie at the helm this business known as Curves is going down,, down, down as fast as the Titanic. He has proven over and over again that he is inept and is thought to be a sociopath by many owners..
Well it is official all 24/7 clubs are receiving cease and desist letters from Howie and if they refuse their franchise contracts will be terminated. There are many clubs that have gone to 24/7 clubs in order to save their clubs from financial ruin. In most cases it has made the difference from having to close to being able to stay open but now they are all sure to close. Do they have any other choice but to become independent clubs? We will have to wait to see but it appears that is the most viable option for most of them. Another outstanding move by Howie and Diane that will surly bring down the house. What a bunch of ego nuts. Hey Howie why not write a book how to screw thousands of small business owners, you stupid stupid ass.
A few more bite the dust: http://www.wtrf.com/story.cfm?func=viewstory&storyid=75417
Thanks for the link, Fitdude
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-5-west-virginia-curves-close-abruptly/
Condolences to the WV Curves franchise owner as well as he members.
This certainly isn’t going to help lower WV’s 31% obesity rate. Sad story all around.
to guest
You suck because you only see a narrow picture of reality. I am not sure why you are on this site or if you own a business. Here you can say anything you want but in my opinion you have never owned a business. You must work with corporate some how. I really doubt that you own a Curves, because I don’t know a owner of a Curves who would talk like you. None of us would defend corporate as much as you are. Not because we are upset at them, but we wouldn’t waste our time if we where happy with them. Think about it, if CI is ok in your book as an owner of a Curves you wouldn’t be on this site, but if you are I doubt you are going to pull out your franchise agreement and post responses like you have done, guest.
As for Blockbuster’s, at least they really tried to fight the fact that their concept was dying. Go back and read my post about the advice I received from CI, and how it was apparent to me after a few months that curves smart was not going to help me keep members at my club.
You are right about one thing I don’t think that CI is going to fix the company now. I will hope, because I still have a large note on my business. Women realized that working-out is no fun, losing weight is hard. I just had another member cancel today, because, “I am just bored with it and I didn’t lose weight.” I have seen post all of the web about negative comments from members who never lost weight at Curves. If this concept was so fantastic then we would still have the members we need. This whole company is nothing but lies, and it makes me want to cry that I am a part of it. The fact is we really need to do something new! Do more then just the circuit, or make the circuit work. I know that the smart system was to hit the 3 basic workout components on the level of intensity, but I think that we may have wanted to concentrate on more then just one component. Wait why not all of them and get the members results. Just a thought!
I remember when I was 24 (just a few years ago) I worked in an office that I ran up and down stairs all day. Just one flight, but man after a few months I looked really good. Also after a few months I stopped losing weight. You know why? My body got use to the exercise. Sure I could have strapped on some ankle weights and keep losing and toning, but those only go so high. No matter what I was going to hit a fitness plateau. I don’t wish that I knew more about Curves problems when I bought this business. I wish I knew all about fitness, now I know a lot more but that doesn’t help me or my members. It is a franchise.
Howie has really reached a new low by sending all 24/7 clubs a notice that if they don’t stop offering the 24/7 hours there franchise agreement will be terminated and CI will sue the owners for the remaining franchise and advertising fees even though CI is the one who terminated the contract and not because the clubs were failing and had to close. The 24/7 clubs changed in order to stay open and most were actually starting to recover and to grow their membership again. Once again Howie’s ego is forcing owners to close or go independent. How stupid can you be Howie and where the hell is Diane in all of this???? Come on Diane can’t you stand up for what is right and cut his you know what off to make him come back to reality. He has really gone over board this time and this business decision will effect all the clubs not just 24/7. What in the world can he be thinking?
How many 24/7’s are really out there?
For Curves to sue desperate franchisees struggling to stay afloat during these dark economic times in order to, among other things, pay CI monthly franchise fees is like Hitler ordering the execution of any Germans who retreated during the siege of Berlin. This is no time to wipe out those those still able to help you, Gary.
Wipedout writes that “For Curves to sue desperate franchisees… is like Hitler ordering the execution of any Germans who retreated during the siege of Berlin.”
Seriously? I don’t know whether to laugh or get sick. You people seriously equate your being held to a legal agreement that YOU signed to the coldblooded executions by the greatest mass murderer in history?
Get over yourselves. Take responsibility. No one held a gun to your head and forced you to start a business, did they? No one forced you to buy a Curves or to sign the contract you now complain about. You came up with the idea because you thought you’d make a lot of money with the hot concept. If you did, the story would be all about how smart you are. Now that it’s cold, you want to blame others for your own decisions.
Go ask a holocaust survivor if they weep for you because you’re now late with your Volvo payments.
There are around 160 to 200 24/7 clubs that will be put out of business because of Howie’s current demands. Many are happy as they will switch to independent clubs.
Hey guest you are already sick !!!!!
It’s interesting, but not surprising, how every time anyone here points out how incompetent some of you obviously are or that you want to blame EVERYONE else for your failures – How dare ANYONE come HERE and tell you to take responsibility for yourself! Shame on you Guest(s)! – you a) start the personal attacks and b) accuse them of either working for Curves or being their shill, etc…
So either you agree completely with the BS blame game and rumor mongering that goes on here or…what?
Is there no other genuine possibility?
When all your name calling and supercilious and blatantly false accusation don’t work to silence YOUR critics, what’s next? Go for broke? Take out the big guns? Make on last desperate attempt to discredit and say they are racist anti-Semitic child molesting homophobes that way you can simply dismiss the cold hard truths?
Name one curves owner who doesn’t feel that Howie is at fault for the demise of Curves. You can’t because the owners know the truth and everything posted on this site points to the same conclusion that Howie and Diane are both incompetent in management skills, unethical, have no integrity, and are crooks. Read the posts form the owners, look at the number of clubs that have been forced to close and the number of owners who have been devastated by Howie. Look at Howie’s past record of greed and court records and maybe you will see the light. He is not a christian in any since of the word never was and never will be.
24/7 clubs need to go after Howie and band together. You are much stronger as a group and for those who have chosen to continue as independent fitness clubs good luck and god bless everyone of you. It is in all likely hood the best thing that.could have happen at this time. think of all the money each month you will be saving in fees alone.
CI certainly could have done much more to help franchisees — anything in fact would have been welcomed. We had a luncheon several years ago with an AD. There were many unhappy franchisees looking for the AD and of course CI for guidance and some new ideas. She said “I only want to hear the positive, not the negative.” Well, that helped a lot. When one of the franchisees asked all the attendees who had made more money this year than last, not one hand went up. But once again, the AD repeated “I only want to hear the positive..l..”
I have a question about the mytrak equipment….
What have people done with it after closing? Did you sell it and for how much? How did you sell it and to who? I have a set that I need to get rid of and would love to hear any suggestions or tips on what other people did.
Thank you.
:)
First off curves smart or my track doesn’t work and never did. It was sold to the franchisee under the pretense that it was a new concept that Howie had invented and that they would have national TV adds and would saturate the market. First off it was technology that was over 10 years old at that time and never worked originally and doesn’t work now. Secondly CI never ran national add like Howie promised to do when he sold it to the franchise owners.
You maybe able to sell it to franchisee in your area if any are still open that don’t have curves smart but other than that there is no market for it. You can donate it to a community center and take a tax write off but since most owners have lost money they don’t need the write off. Other that that there isn’t much you can do with it. You can sign up for the yahoogroupscurvesowners site and list it there if you can still get on the site but you had better hurry as CI is going to be shutting that site down fairly soon after Heavin is done with the 24/7 terminations.
A comment and a question–
Don’t underestimate the 24/7 owners….they will NOT “go quietly into the night” (no pun intended) without a fight! Some very strong Curves leaders among those owners.
And my question is How can CI shut down the Curves owners site on Yahoo? Can just anyone go in and shut down a group that they do not want on Yahoo? I would think that Yahoo is BIGGER than Heavin……
“And my question is How can CI shut down the Curves owners site on Yahoo? Can just anyone go in and shut down a group that they do not want on Yahoo?”
They can’t of course. It’s just more of the normal embellishment and good old fashion rumor mongering on your fearless leader’s part.
Normal mixture? 5% truth, 25% hyperbole, 30% unsubstantiated rumors (usually started by himself), and 40% outright lies with a sprinkle of name calling on top, in a feeble attempt to defame his critics.
To nolongercurvesgal,
Curves would not be going after yahoo but the owner/moderator of that group which is a well known curves owner. First off one must consider all the statements that Howie has expressed concerning that site. He has repeatedly stated that it has not been approved by Curves International and that it is a group of whiners and trouble makers and should not be paid attention to by owners. He has stated this at several of the national conventions, club camps, and regional meetings. It has been a thorn in Howie’s side for a long time and he has vowed to put a stop to it on more than one occasion. It appears that his intent is to send a cease and desist letter to the owner/moderator of the site (a curves franchisee owner) by stating that the owner is violating # 6 Standards and Uniformity of Operation of the franchise agreement. It will probably be Howie contention that the yahoo group curves owners site is misleading owners by suggesting ideas made from other owners which violate the the approved methods of Curves International thus damaging the Curves brand or Curves Marks. While the owner/moderator has clearly stated a disclaimer on the site that some suggestions from owners may not be approved by Curves international it won’t be enough to stop Howie from threatening the owner with a termination of his contract and the possibility of a lawsuit by CI. If the owner/moderator doesn’t comply Howie will terminate the owners/moderators contract and file the suit. The problem here is that the owner/moderator in all likelihood does not have the funds to fight this in court and Howie knows that. The legal costs to defend oneself from this type of lawsuit can be very expensive between 60 and 80 thousand dollars. While the owner/moderator has a high probability of winning such a suit if it comes to that does he have the will and the deep pockets to fight it. In all likelihood the owner/moderator would not have the funds as he is a curves owner and we all know what a financial drain the clubs are at this point. This is the same tactics that Howie is using on the 24/7 clubs so for those that say this will never happen I have news for you. It is already in the works and while it may be several months away be assured it is in the pipe line of things to come from Curves International. Howie seems to be blaming everyone but himself for the down fall of Curves and is grasping at straws thinking this will stop the ship from going down. Many owners at this time feel that Howie is a sociopath and by his own actions they may just be right. But we have news for you Howie your boat has so many holes that it is going down, down, down., and your only hope of survival is to sell at this time. No one in their right mind likes you, trusts you, or wants to have anything to do with you. You have no integrity, morals, or ethics and you Howie have been caught in too many lies. It is time you take your final bow and exit stage left with what you have left and bury your head in the sand over all your misdeeds and mismanagement of what was and could have been the greatest woman’s fitness center in the history of health clubs. Instead of bragging about the million of woman’s Curves has helped you should be thinking about the millions of family members of owners who who have hurt and left in financial ruin.
Do you even believe the crap you spew? Or do you just hope some will stick to the walls? First, if everything is as horrible as YOU claim for EVERYONE, wouldn’t getting out of his franchise agreement be a good thing? Second, to “shut down the site” they would have to make Yahoo! do it since all the “owner”, which is really a moderator (Yahoo! owns the site) of the site would have to do is cease moderating it or hand it over to someone else. And yeah, I’m sure Yahoo! will back down to Curves. Third, this is a first amendment issue and if the new moderator couldn’t find a local ambulance chaser to take it on – one call to the ACLU and they would LOVE to take on a case like this – especially since they already dislike Heavin over his personal abortion views.
And you know what they say about people in glass houses right?:
“Howie seems to be blaming everyone but himself for the down fall of Curves and is grasping at straws…”
Something you have in common.
“Many owners at this time feel that Howie is a sociopath and by his own actions they may just be right.”
Like peas in a pod! BTW, pleas define “many”. I mean other than you and your handful of faithful, are you saying 10, 20, 100?
“No one in their right mind likes you, trusts you, or wants to have anything to do with you. You have no integrity, morals, or ethics and you Howie have been caught in too many lies.”
WOW! Thick as thieves you are, it’s a wonder that you two don’t get along better! It’s kinda creepy the similarities.
You are right about one thing though, lawsuits can be expensive. Which is why you couldn’t do anything until you suckered a couple of hundred naive desperate people into plunking down $4,000 (that they could hardly afford) to join you on your crusade. Shameful.
unhappy–OK, I understand now how CI would go after the owner/moderator of the site. I know who he is and he had been quite critical of CI until recently…not sure what’s going on there. And I know G. Heavin always refers to the Yahoo group as the Crap Line. And as for the 24/7 group….I didn’t mean to imply that it would never happen….only that the 24/7 group would probably be happy if their franchises were taken away from them…..then they could go “independent” without franchise fees/ad fees, etc. But, of course, CI will have penalty costs, etc. and that’s where they aren’t going down without a fight!
And BTW, unhappy, you seem to have knowledge of these things before it all comes out…..UMMMMM…..I suspect you have a “mole” at CI.
And to you Just Guest/Other guest–I don’t think unhappy is spreading rumors. To much of what he/she says can be verified.
Guess who just stepped down as owner/moderator of the Yahoo Curves Owners group!!!??? That didn’t take long, now did it.
“Guess who just stepped down as owner/moderator of the Yahoo Curves Owners group!!!???”
And just as I said, it will simply be left without him, with others moderating it.
“And to you Just Guest/Other guest–I don’t think unhappy is spreading rumors. To much of what he/she says can be verified.”
Yes, that would fall into the 5% truth category though usually the 25% hyperbole category. Just like on program like Access Hollywood, SOMETIMES they get it right. That doesn’t make them exactly a reliable outlet for the “truth” now does it? As far as it being “shut down” that’d be in the 30% unsubstantiated rumors category. Ain’t gonna happen.
To Guest123,
I may have someone who may be interested in your MyTrak equipment. Please provide your contact information to the Administrator on the “contact us” link at the top of the page and they will forward it to me.
Everyone I think we should welcome “Howie” AKA Guest to this site. Here is where I will agree with you “Howie,” When I bought my franchise I knew I was buying an opportunity. And I did make money and I still stand by that CI just sold us an opportunity. I have always spent a lot on advertising because I did not feel it was CI’s responsibility to make my business successful. I know people feel different but I know what an advertising budget takes and they would be charging us a lot more if they did the advertising people wanted them to do. I don’t mind the small fees for wellness because I appreciate having the program. I don’t blame CI for the failure or success of my business because again I feel I was sold and opportunity. However this is where you are wrong and I know you are going to respond to this because you are “Howie” and you are never wrong……it is their management or should I say lack there of, of the brand that is leading to the demise. And I have no problem with that. If you want to run your company down the drain because of your ego that is your prerogative, hey you built it, but don’t you dare think you are going to take me with you. Times are changing and if you want to be stuck in a little bubble and think that the only things you say are what works for Curves, again I am ok with that, but don’t tell franchisees they can not be allowed to do what they need to do from going down on your sinking ship while your sitting there up on your high hoarse and have not ran a club your self in over 10 years.
And I would just like to respond specifically to your post earlier guest AKA “Howie”:
“What about safety issues? Crime? What about AED (automated external defibrillators) laws? I’m sure you’ve researched and weighed the liability you’ll have if a member goes into cardiac arrest and no one is there to help.”—-I have researched this and the people at Snap and Anytime have as well. The insurance company has researched it as well. If you would here is the number to Sports and Fitness 800-844-0536. Please call them and ask them what the difference in liability is for health clubs open 24/7 versus those that are open Curves hours. Please post your response from them. Also please talk to a landlord since you apparently do not run a club and ask them to call their insurance company and ask them if there are any changes in rates if a health club is 24/7 versus our hours since you think crime is such and issue. Again I think we would all really appreciate posting your findings.
To nolongercurvesgal,
Thank you for your kind words and don’t worry the critics don’t bother me at all as a few owners have their heads so far up Howie’s ass they can’t or refuse to admit the truth when it is right in front of their eyes.. If they would read the posts from the beginning of this site they would realize that the majority of what has been said on this site is the truth. From all the owners sad and disheartening stories of what they have gone through as a result of Howie’s mismanagement to the breaking news on the termination letters for abandonment after closing, the 10,000 dollar so called closing fee, the so called mutual release, the summons to go to court and how they are being served, and of course the recent news on the 24/7 clubs as well as Howie’s intent to shut down the yahoogroupscurvesowner site. The list goes on and on and all of it can be verified as well as the advice given to owners who have asked for it during their times of trouble with CI and Howie. For the truth to be told correctly the success of the yahoogroupscurvesowners site is directly related to me pushing owners to sign up on that site in order to get help in thinking out side the box to prevent them from having to close. Evidence of this can be seen with the tremendous growth of that site from a little over 800 members to now over 1900 members. That growth has taken place in the last 8 months since we have been suggesting to owners to join that site not only in previous posts on this site but to every owner who has personally called me for advice (at this time over 1575 and growing rapidly)) on how to handle CI intimidating tactics. As you mentioned, Howie refers to the yahoo site as a crap site and CI has been monitoring that site for a long time (as well as this one) and unfortunately people have to post their name and club location when posting on the yahoo site. The owners who have been out spoken about Howie and CI’s policies on that site should all be concerned as believe me when I tell you that Howie will be knocking on their doors very soon with his typical threats of termination using the # 6 of the franchise agreement and their damaging the curves brand or mark and influencing other owners to pursue policies not accepted by curves. As an example of this look at what Howie did to the owner who came up with the grocery coupons and how he destroyed that program that was helping many owners to get by in these hard economic times.
Many of us on this site have certainly said a lot of things about Howie but I don’t ever recall us calling him stupid. Howie certainly wouldn’t go after yahoo to close the group site but anyone who takes over the moderator position at this time would have to be an idiot or have a desire to be involved in a huge lawsuit as it should be obvious to owners that Howie is determined to try to put a stop to it once and for all as he holds it responsible for one of the reasons for the downfall of curves. (The other being the owners) While it didn’t come as a surprise to me you must admit it is certainly a coincidence (if it’s true) that the owner/moderator of the Yahoo Curves owners group just stepped down. It would be interesting to find out why? I will say this to any owners who are posting on that site you had better be very careful as to what you say as it is being monitored by CI and it would be very advisory not to post your name and club location any more as Howie will retaliate against you for negative posts about him or Curves International so weather you believe it or not you have been warned.
Now I will not deny or confirm how we get our inside information other than to tell you that we are in contact with many owners on a daily basis and have worked so far with over 1575 owners and that list is growing rapidly with all the closes that are taking place. The closings are not just here in America and Canada but world wide and the foreign clubs closings are picking up tremendously. In fact so many over seas clubs are closing that I have had to down load a program called Skype so that I can talk over the computer and not spend money using long distance phone lines.
To guest 2
We have been right on much more than one thing as you so simply stated and by many owners believe Howie is a sociopath we mean hundreds upon hundreds of owners who have had the unfortunate experience of not only meeting him personally at convention, club camp, and have seen his rants on the fire side chats believe Howie is a sociopath. Don’t just look it up in Webster’s dictionary but go to a psychological text book and read the characteristics and you will find he has all the personality traits associated with a sociopath personality.
You obviously don’t know what you are talking about as the group action lawsuit was going long before I filed our 800,000 dollar lawsuit against Curves. While I have a list of over 978 owners who want to join the second wave of the group action lawsuit it won’t cost them or me a dime as the lawyers have agreed to take us on with no retainer depending on the first group action lawsuits outcome. So maybe you should either shut the hell up or at least get your facts right next time you moron. (oh I’m bad back to name calling but when the shoe fits you should ware it you dope)
To Just guest
You out to go back to watching Access Hollywood as you mind is nothing but mush.
Just have to put my two cents in here-
I for one do like CI and what they offer me. I am not a new owner so dont think I am wearing rose colored glasses, i have been doing this for several years and my club keeps growing and growing and growing with many of my members being with me for more that 5years of “going round and around circles”. They are not bored cuz we dont let them get that way. I have not lost ANY members for any reason other than death for better than 6 months. My club makes money- a good living and I am doing it “the Curves way”
On another note- I happen to live in the state the Snap started in and can tell you they are starting to closed on a regular basis here. This state was the first and I believe the only state that Curves sold every single territory. Guess what Snap has even oversaturated what Curves did. They are in towns with less than 1000 people. I get 2-3 new members weekly that tried Snap and could not stand it for al, its dirty, it alone, its scary, I dont know what I am to do, its not personnal, etc…
My point is a postive attitude will get you further than what you all have now.
Also, why can you all grow up and accept responsiblity for the desisions you made. Its not CI fault, its yours. Quit trying to stomp on those that have succeded whare you failed.
So it was a different Robert Lay who SPAMMED every Curves owner he could in August ’08? My mistake. You should sue this douche bag then as he’s impersonating you and besmirching your, eh hem, “good” name. Let me ask, are your eyes naturally brown?
Dear Curves Owners,
We would like to thank all of the owners who have decided to join us in the group action lawsuit against Curves International and Gary Heavin. The amount or response has been overwhelming. We also want to inform all the other owners who are considering joining the lawsuit that they have until Monday September 15th to join the first group. Keep in mind that the Zarco law firm will accept payments over a 6 month period for the 4,000 dollar retainer.
If you have any questions don’t hesitate to either e-mail me or call [withheld]. Robert Lay
Guest on 2/24–That’s great that you are running a successful Curves and making money. You are one of the very few who are at this time. And most all of these Curves owners that post on this site DID have a positive attitude at one time. And they have done it the Curves way and have been beaten down, lost their savings, their homes, etc. and did not receive any help from CI. If you like what CI offers you…..again that’s wonderful. But don’t “stomp on those” who have not gotten the support from CI that was promised when they bought their franchises. I, for one am happy, when a franchisee posts that they are succeeding….I certainly do not “try to stomp on them”. And I would think you would show just a little empathy to those who aren’t quite as lucky as you are. You obviously live in a state that has not been as effected economically as some of us. So just be thankful, and keep doing what you have been doing, but please, till you’ve walked in some of our shoes, don’t judge us!
‘So maybe you should either shut the hell up or at least get your facts right next time you moron. (oh I’m bad back to name calling but when the shoe fits you should ware it you dope)’
So does the shoe fit for you too, since you didn’t know the facts of your own trial and that it got extended to August? The extension was filed 2 weeks before I ever mentioned it.
The fact that you have over 978 Curves ready for a group action lawsuit on contingency really means little. Look at the Quizno’s class action that just got settled. Some of the ‘failed’ franchisees got a whopping $500. The attorneys got $10MM. If you are looking at a lawsuit based on contigency, expect that the lawyers will be the one making the most out of it.
ATTENTION ALL CURVES OWNERS
If you have paid or know of any owner who has paid all or any portion of the so called closing fee of 10,000 dollars you need to immediately request your money back from Curves International at once. Curves International has abandoned the practice of even asking for the closing fee as it a form of extortion and is illegal. If you have paid even a portion of that fee you are entitled to get your money back at once. If Howie had any integrity, honesty or ethical fiber he would refund the money that was extorted from owners without them having to ask for it. But don’t hold your breath as Howie certainly won’t refund the money unless you request it back.
To JD
Tell us JD do you have any knowledge of any group action or class action where the lawyers didn’t take the case on a contingency fee? We all would be happy to hear about it. Most cases on a contingency fee range anywhere from 30 to 40 percent of the total settlement so obviously the lawyers will make more than each single litigant but at least the owners will get some money which they wouldn’t recieve with out having a lawyer. Wouldn’t you rather look at a glass that is half full than empty? I’m sure most owners would for the wrongs that have been done by CI and Howie’s greed. Thank you very much!
Oh and one more thing JD, I’ve talked to many of the owners of Quizno’s (just to clarify over 30) and all received much more than 500 dollars but regardless of the award the satisfaction of knowing that they won a settlement proving they were right was worth the trouble and anguish they went through all those years. For many of us owners it’s not just about money but unfortunately for Howie it is only about money.
Robert, thank you for sharing your story, we are closing our Curves today and the feeling is not good, we kept financing our business with a credit card for the past few months hoping that with the snowbirds coming and all the efforts on local advertising we are doing, pushing for Buddy referals will turn it around. It did not happen, not only that the Smart system never took off, there was no serious publicity from Curves International, we the Smart System arrived we change and renew the image of our club but our members did not want to pay extra for the system and weren’t interested in it. We are totally broke our home in risk of foreclosure and Curves wants me to pay past, present and future dues.
Thanks for sharing every body
Alejandro:
Very sorry to hear of your closing and financial challenges. Hang in there.
Alejandro,
We are so sorry to hear about your experience with Curves International and it is such a shame but keep in mind you are not alone. Hundreds of owners are in the same boat as you and your stories about the problems with Curves and Curves smart are felt in 95 % of the clubs. Lies and false promise from Howie is a common occurrence when dealing with CI. Good luck in the future and God Bless.
Well I am happy today considering the fact that the new moderators of the old Yahoogroupscurvesowners site has taken the threat of legal action from CI serious enough to shout down the old site and to reopen up under the new name of owners-managers@yahoogroups.com. The following is email address and the home page location.
The group email address:
owners-managers@ yahoogroups. com
The group home page location:
http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/owners- managers
By doing so Curves International will not be able to go after the owner/moderators of the old site for trade mark or brand infringement but if they were smart they need to take it several more steps to prevent termination of some of the owners franchise agreement who have and still post on that site. One they need to stop having owners post their name and location of their club as it makes it too easy for Howie’s spies to label owners who post derogatory post about Howie and CI. They could also put rules on posts that no derogatory posts not even rants will be tolerated but that’s kind of silly and hard to enforce. Secondly they need to clear all archived files as I know for a fact that Howie is having an employee go through all posts and pulling out all that have been negative against Curves International and Howie as well as all posts that suggest going against Curves International policies. It will take the one person doing such days if not months to complete but those that are found will be market and if an owner is a consistent repeat offender they will be targeted, blackballed and listed for further legal action. Again CI will be using the Recitals number 6 of the franchise agreement which is the Standards and Uniformity of Operation and while it in all likely would not stand up in court the cost to defend oneself from such a legal battle would be somewhere between 30 and 60 thousand dollars. I don’t believe that any owner would have that type of funds available to spend on such a law suit. Of course many owners would be happy just to get out of their contract and would love the saving from no franchise or advertising fee and would end up being independent clubs. So in summation Curves owners be very careful when posting on the new site, keep it positive, and for heaven sakes don’t use your name or club address as the CI eyes and spies on watching every post you put on.
Well, if you want to get the facts straight, maybe you should look at the Quizno’s settlement and maybe you should realize that someone is trying to block it, so the settlement hasn’t gone through yet, because they aren’t happy about it.
Stores Sold not opened will get between 5 & 32.7% of their initial $25,000 fee, stores still open get $3,150 in food rebates over 3 years (meaning Q will increase the cost to the franchisees). Stores owners that transferred their interest get $475. Store owners that left the system get $1,700. The attorneys get $11MM.
So, all in all, Quizno’s made out pretty well on this settlement. They got to keep a lot of money, that they really didn’t deserve. The same thing will happen with Curves (if you win), since ‘Howie’ owes the company and I’m sure he is distributing all of the excess cash out of the company, especially since he was dismissed as an individual defendant.
contingency fees in the state of Texas can be added to the settment amount. I hope that your suit is filed that way.
Per franchise agreements the losing party in any lawsuit is liable for the lawyers fees but this clause is almost never enforced except in divorce cases. So it doesn’t do any good the theorize what may or may not happen or what type of settlement maybe reached or for that matter what the lawyer’s may get for all their hard work on owners behalf. I’m sure most of the owners will be happy for anything they get as at this point they are getting zilch. Besides with so much going on with Curves international at this time there are a lot of other more important considerations to discuss that can help Curves owners weather the storm. But thank you Next Step for your concern.
I am sure that you will be happy with what ever you get. I just wanted you to know that in Texas if you sue for 800,000 and the contingency percent is 40. Then the lawyer is supposed to sue for 1,120,000. That is the way it is supposed to work in Texas for contingency suits. The lawyer’s fee is supposed to be added to the settlement amount, not taken from the settlement amount.
Thanks for the info next step have a nice evening.
Yes, I’m sure all the owners involved will be THRILLED if Zarco makes millions and they see a few dollars. LOL, it astounds me that you actually believe what you say sometimes. Sure, we’re all about helping lawyers get rich! THAT is why these people plunked down $4K, to “teach that evil man a lesson (oh, and make Zarco some cash too).” Right? I’m sure they are all worried about Zarco lawyers being able to afford THEIR houses and car payments! Do you really believe that for even a second? Either you are full of crap and don’t, or you’re foolish. Either way, I feel sorry for these people who bought your line.
I wonder, do YOU have the same award structure/conditions/agreement as everyone else in the lawsuit? Does the last person to join your merry band get the same award you do (if this actually does get anything)? As we know, the only way you could even get Zarco to work with you was to sucker these other poor folks into subsidizing your vendetta, but your disturbing comments have me wondering. You seem quite content in knowing that there’s a very high likelihood that even with a win, the majority of folks won’t see much out of this no matter what, so I have to think that YOU, as the initiator of the lawsuit, may just have a different deal going on with Zarco.
You certainly didn’t want Next step continuing on with this topic. “doesn’t do any good the theorize what may or may not happen or what type of settlement maybe reached or for that matter what the lawyer’s may get” “Thanks for the info next step have a nice evening.” Hmmmm…. Sounds like “shut the hell up” to me.
Guest, you are FREE to buy a Curves and show all of us “losers” here how it’s done. Go to McCord Business Brokers and pick up a club or two – some are selling for a BUCK – and turn them into money machines. PROVE to us all that it’s our rotten attitudes alone that led to our downfall. I DARE you.
After all, you know better, right? And let us know your locations so we can monitor your progress!
“Guest, you are FREE to buy a Curves and show all of us “losers” here how it’s done. Go to McCord Business Brokers and pick up a club or two – some are selling for a BUCK – and turn them into money machines. PROVE to us all that it’s our rotten attitudes alone that led to our downfall. I DARE you.
After all, you know better, right? And let us know your locations so we can monitor your progress!”
Great idea! If it succeeds I can take credit and if it fails I can always blame the company, the founder and the former owners for my decision!
Wipedout, you should go independent and 24/7 and rename your club Wipedout Fitness. When you are crazy successful everyone will see that it was Curves, Heavin and everyone else that was holding you and your friends back, not the economy, competition, boredom or your own inability to keep members coming back. We look forward to monitoring your progress.
It’s great to know that this site cause such a stir that we are getting shills for Howie posting and trying to discourage peoples hopes but they make it so obvious that its laughable. They can try to blame it on the economy, boredom or the owners but we all know the reasons and they have been posted in the discussion many times. I want to thank them as this morning because of there rant 7 more owners have joined the group for the second wave group action lawsuit. But lets not forget we need to get the word out to all owners who paid any portion of the 10,000 dollar closing fee to immediately request a refund from Howie as that practice is nothing but extortion getting money by using threats..
TO ALL OVER SEAS CLUBS HERE ARE THE SITES YOU NEED TO GO TO TO FILE COMPLAINTS AGAINST CURVES INTERNATIONAL AND HOWIE.
http://www.bbb.org/
http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml
I have been reading all the comments and other than the “flat earth” fool, there is real fear and sense of disappointment. I am closing my club this weekend and having a bash for all my members on Sunday. We can really use the chance to get together and blow off steam.
Here is my situation. I notified Curves at the end of January, by email that I was closing. They emailed me their closing packet, including the demand for $10,000, which I ignored. I know they know I am closing and yet, I am still getting Leads! Are they sticking their heads in the sand? Do they think I’ll just change my mind? Has anyone else gone through this?