CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story
The American dream of owning your own successful business seems to be going up in smoke for a lot of the Curves Franchise owners. The story you are about to read may seem like a Steven King horror novel but it is a real story that has happened to my wife and I. To all of the past, present and future owners of a Curves franchise please take the time to read the whole story as at the end we explain what we plan to do and how you as an ex or present owner may want to get involved.
My wife and I had owned and operated our own business for over 20 years and had been very successful at doing so. While we were making a great income from our business there was something missing in our life. Neither us felt that we were contributing to society but just taking and we decided to make a major change in our life. That was when we heard about Curves for Women. It was a new franchise that only had 300 or so clubs and for the first time in years we both became excited at the prospect of actually helping people reach their goals. We bought our first club in 1997 located in a city of thirty thousand. From the first day it opened it was more successful than our wildest dreams. Not only were we making excellent money but the personal rewards helping people better their lives was a truly rewarding feeling. I can still remember as if it was yesterday the first time a Dr. of one of our members came in to check out what we were doing as he couldn’t believe the ch
anges his patient had gone through. She had gotten off her high blood medication and had lost over 40 pounds in 4 months. It was truly amazing and over the years we have seen it happen numerous times over and over.
We sold our first club in 2001 and bought two more franchises. My wife became a mentor for Curves International around this time and I was helping to sell franchise for Curves International as so many of are members wanted to own a club. It was at this time that we started to see problems arising with Curves International but we attributed it to the fast growth that Curves was going through. In 2002 we bought two more franchises but this time they were in what was called a metro-area instead of city under thirty thousand in population.
The first problem we encountered with Curves International was in early 2003. Curves sold a franchise that was a corridor of land between one of our franchise’s and the next city 8 miles from our southern boarder. It was obvious to us that the territory didn’t have the necessary population to support a facility and that Curves International was selling any location just out of greed and the fact that there were so many people who wanted a franchise. The people who bought that franchise tried to open up on our border but it had always been an unwritten but followed rule of Curves International that you open in the middle of your territory so that disputes between owners over stealing members from your territory didn’t arise. We immediately filed a complaint with Curves International and they stopped the new owner from opening at that location. Unfortunately for the new owners there were no other commercial locations between the two cities so they were forced into selling that franchise back to Curves International for a loss.
It was also at this time that Curves International started to change personnel. The employee’s who we had a personal relationship with that had started Curves International with Gary Heavin were leaving the company at an alarming rate. Seven employees that were the top management of Curves left or were forced out because of Gary Heavin’s greed. They ended up filling a law suit against Curves which was later settled out of court. It was at this time that Diane Heavin became involved with Curves and a whole new history was being written about how Curves was started. The original Curves member guide which was written by Gary Heavin and June Manley was taken off the market and the new Curves book authored by of course Gary Heavin was on the top 10 of the Times best seller list.. To make sure it was on the Times best seller list all the clubs had to order at least on case. That is when we as owners realized Heavin was a manipulator and not the born again Christian he portrayed to be. It was also at this time that the price to buy a franchise more than doubled in price. This came as quite a surprise as Heavin had always maintained that he would never ever increase his franchise price and he even swore on the bible in front of a group at club camp that he would never break his word on that. Well as we all know he didn’t keep that promise for long, which just shows his greed.
At this point my wife and I became quite concerned and even considered selling our business but other problems arose concerning Curves International that demanded our full attention. In 2004 another Curves location located on our boarder of one of our metro-areas hired two of our employees and stole around 15 members from our club. Both employees had signed the anti covenant not to compete and in our state those agreements are strictly enforced by the courts. We considered going to court but since it was another Curves facility we decided to file a complaint with Curves International. And to let them handle it. What a mistake that was as they did nothing. We transferred the members files but refused to transfer the money for the members dues until such time that Curves International responded to our complaint. We were told by the area director, which was a new position at Curves International, that we were trouble makers and he refused to send any of are clubs the members appreciation bags. Shortly thereafter Curves International resold the corridor of land that had been sold back to them at a loss from the previous owners and they allowed the new owners to open up in nearly the same location that they had refuse the previous owners only a year and a half before. The new owners advertised in our area and ended up getting 10 or 11 members to transfer to their club. Again we held their monthly dues but did transfer the members files. We immediately filed a complaint but again got the same response nothing. It didn’t take long for most of the members who transferred to come back to our club as the other location was small and in a very run down area and to this day that club has not shown a profit and has been sold numerous times over the years for little to nothing.
Then in 2005 the real problems with Curves International started that we are still contending with today. In one of our metro-areas a competitor by the name of Ladies Workout Express opened up right across the street from our location. Unknown to us they had hired our manager and one other employee from that location and when the employee’s left they had stolen off our computer our member files. They ended up stealing over two thirds of our membership with in a week. The employees had signed the covenant not to compete so we immediately hired a lawyer and prepared for a lawsuit. As I stated before in our state that agreement is strictly enforced but it took four months to get it into court. During this time that location was losing so much money that we decided to move the location next to our other territory so that both clubs could stay open. We sent in the required change of location form to Curves International but never heard anything back from them so we went ahead and relocated in late 05. The owners of the Ladies Workout Express eventually went broke because of the lawsuit and the fact that they would end up owing us monetary damages. They filed for bankruptcy to prevent us from collecting any monetary awards in Dec 05 but we did have the satisfaction knowing that we did what was right
In early 06 we were informed by Curves International that because we abandon that location they were terminating all of our franchise agreements. We immediately requested mediation for all of our clubs which is authorized by our franchise agreements with Curves International. We never heard back from them so we hired a lawyer in Waco, TX to represent us. He proceeded to send them a letter requesting the same mediation process and they did respond to him. They sent him letter stating that it was premature to go through the mediation process at that time as they were in the process of researching our reason for moving. Curves International continued to debit our account for the franchise and advertising fees for all the other clubs we owned but stopped talking the fees for the one territory that they stated we abandoned. The lawyer had us send Curves International a check for the fees and a new authorization form for them to deduct it from our account. Neither our lawyer or ourselves ever heard anything back from Curves International so we all assumed that things were back to normal.
In the spring of 07 we made the decision to start selling off all of our clubs and to completely retire. It didn’t take me long to sell the club we owned that wasn’t in a metro-area and I agreed to stay with the new owner’s to help train them how to run the business. We sent all the documentation into Curves International and the sale was completed by January 08. That freed my wife and I up to concentrate on our metro-area clubs and to get them ready for sale. In Feb of 08 we heard that a Curves club was opening in one of our territories within a mile of our current club. We could not understand how Curves International could do such a thing. We again filed a complaint by phone and e-mail to Curves International and several weeks later we were informed by e-mail that they didn’t know what we were talking about. We were told we didn’t own any franchises and hadn’t since we were terminated in 05. That came as quite a shock to my wife and I as our franchise and advertising fee’s had been deducted all along from our checking account and we had just recently sold a club that they were telling us we never owned. We had a local lawyer send a letter to the new owners explaining the situation and that we would be seeking legal recourse against Curves International and depending on the outcome they were opening themselves up to a potential lawsuit. During this time we had bought and paid in full for the Smart Equipment for Curves International and were waiting for the installation which was scheduled for the June 24th. On June 20th , a Friday we received a phone message telling us that the Curves Smart Installation was canceled and that we had to call Curves legal for an explanation. We left messages both e-mail and phone every 30 minutes on Monday June 23rd and finally late in the afternoon we received an e-mail stating that one of there lawyers would be in touch with us before the end of the day, They never sent an e-mail or a phone call as was promised but by mid day the next day they did respond by e-mail. It stated because of the problems with the members transfers, the fact that we abandoned a franchise, and that we had interfered with the opening of the new franchise located in our territory we weren’t approved for the Curves Smart. Yet in late May they had sent all the promotional ad material for the Curves Smart and of course we had gone to a considerable amount of expense for training the employees, advertising and promotion of the Curves Smart equipment. It was at this point that my wife and I decided that drastic action had to be taken against Heavin and Curves International.
While we still love the concept of Curves we feel that because of the deceptive and we believe fraudulent business practices that Heavin has allowed under his management Curves will eventually end up in the toilet so to speak. After spending many hours on the internet we have found that there are many lawsuits against this man and his company. Just read some of the post’s that are on franchisepick.com from owners concerning the new ten thousand fee if your club goes under and closes to the vitamins that were sold in Feb and March by Ideas in Action at a discount to owners without telling them that they would expire at the end of May. The lack of support and communication from Curves International that all of us owners are going through is intolerable. It is impossible for an owner to get through to them on the phone and good luck if you expect a call back in a timely manor. The fact that we as owners pay a lot of money for our advertising fees and have no accounting of where it is spent and a quite frankly we never see many ads in our area.
I have taken the time to do the necessary research to find several good lawyers who handle franchise law who are more than willing to help Curves owners who are having similar problems with Curves. I for one am going to go after Curves International and Gary Heavin in a court of law. These are not class action but group action lawsuit and if you don’t understand the difference contact me and I will explain it to you. There have been over 200 such lawsuit filed against Curves in the last several years and while some have been settled in mediation others are in the process of going to litigation. If you are a past or present Curves owner who has experienced these problems and want satisfaction whether it be monetary or revenge please contact me. We have several options that we can go and I for one am positive we will win as the other lawsuits have been successful so far and have set a precedent for ours. It is time for the owners of Curves franchises either past or present to stand up together and put a stop to Heavins’s ramped destruction of peoples lives just for monetary greed.
Thanks for reading our post and God Bless you all.
ARE YOU AN CURVES FRANCHISE OWNER OR FORMER CURVES FRANCHISEE?
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CURVES FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITY?
PLEASE SHARE A COMMENT BELOW.
To NJNow,
There offices is Waco are so disorganized the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing. Just another example of Howie’s incompetency Wait tell you receive the termination letter for abandonment.. The whole process is so screwed up and Howie uses nothing but extortion to try to get more money from the owners. His cash cow is coming to an end.
Have a good time at the bash on Sunday and believe me when I say there is life after curves but unfortunately your ordeal will continue for a while even after you close. Good luck in the future and remember to stress the importance of exercise to you members on Sunday. Have a good time our thoughts will be with you.
Ah, there we go, the old reliable “we are getting shills for Howie”
That’s right EVERYONE who disagrees with you is a shill, or a moron, or an ass, or a this or a that. Because if YOU couldn’t be successful NO ONE could be successful. They are all just liars and shills. You are just pissed that you held onto your club too long and couldn’t unload it before you ran it into the ground. (Hey SEC! I didn’t sell SOME of my stock in time, who should I sue?) Yes, you are all about “hope”. What hope? Hope that these marks will get as good a settlement as those poor Quizno’s folks? What is “obvious” is that you managed to get desperate folks to foot the bill for a lawsuit that YOU couldn’t afford to bring and that in the end they will mostly walk away with little to nothing. Worse, they are out another $4,000 on top of what they already lost. Then, if Zarco feels that there was a positive outcome (positive in that Zarco makes money, not that the owners do. Zarco is concerned with Zarco, if you believe otherwise you are a fool) Zarco will gladly bring your second lawsuit on a huge contingency basis because all the leg work has ALREADY been paid for by the poor schmucks how paid the $4,000! It’s a free second bite at the apple for Zarco! They are geniuses!
And what will the second batch of owners see? Look to the Quizno’s for a pretty good idea, actually the piddly amount they got is far MORE than you will ever see. Their awards were based on their SUBSTANTIALLY larger investment and payments to the franchisor than we’ve had to pay (no court is going to award you for over paying for your club to a third party (Hey Remax, I didn’t sell my house for a profit, I’m gonna sue YOU because you sold it to me and I’m gonna sue the guy who owned it before me because he DID make money off his sale!)). Remember folks, in a “group suit” like this on not everyone is awarded the same amount even though you all PAID the same amount to join it.
It was “obvious” a year and a half back when you SPAMMED us all with your e-mails looking for us to drop $4K into this scheme what the outcome would be and that you were looking for US to finance your vendetta. And since the vast majority of us (those you know call “the Curves shills”) have no interest in lining the pockets of lawyers so that YOU can feel justified in running your business into the ground, we told you to take a hike.
Some desperate folks did fall for your scam. But that’s no different than anything else in history. Man many times people have aligned themselves with despicable people because they were desperate and looking for ANY straw to grasp. If that weren’t true, there’d be no cults and no dictators.
What’s also “obvious” is that thanks to the internet, just as much as any other factor YOU have damaged the brand and the resale value of ALL these folks’ clubs. THAT is the power of the net folks. While that may make someone like you feel better about yourself, it really doesn’t do everyone else any good. 20 years ago someone as insignificant as you couldn’t have had such a detrimental impact on so many. But thanks to the internet and the butterfly effect, even a little bug can drastically effect the value of something for so many others. Wait a minute, that sounds like cause for legal action. YOU have caused a loss of potential value to my clubs! Of course, I might not be able to prove that in court, but what the heck, let’s give it a go. Also, having learned from you, I’m not foolish enough to put MY money on the line! Any suckers want to contribute $4,000 to see if we win $500!
BTW, I’m sorry that many many of you overpaid for your clubs and can’t unload them now. But there is no legal recourse for YOUR failure to properly assess and value your purchase. (Hey Chevy, I paid too much for this used Impala. Yeah, I know, I should have checked the bluebook or at least looked at the internet, but I didn’t know any better. You bastards I’m gonna sue!)
to guest
Great idea! If it succeeds I can take credit and if it fails I can always blame the company, the founder and the former owners for my decision!
Wait I thought you said you did already own a successful club. By the way what state are you in? MN where snap is? How is the unemployment rate in your area. Do you have more members now then 2 years ago?
to not surprised the shill or should I say Kenny with the Neapolitan complex
If you knew anything you would certainly know that the owners in the second wave lawsuit won’t have to pay a dime for a retainer but of course you don’t know as your only concern is trying to stop the messenger. Your loss of potential value is the result of Howie and 99 percent of the owners feel the same. Just look at the yahoo group that just closed down I suppose under your logic we caused that too. What a shame. Go ahead and sell you crap to owners that care to listen as your argument is falling on deaf ears here and since you started to post we have a renewed upswing in owners joining the next wave. Aren’t you the one that has had several break-ends at your club and home? From what we have heard you did it for insurance and hopefully they will be filing charges against you very soon.
You are of course welcome to post here but your not going to mislead or use false facts. Its a fact that that this business is failing because of the mismanagement of Howie. It’s a fact that the lawsuits are multiplying faster than rabbits, it’s a fact that CI is trying to close all 24/7 clubs, it’s a fact that the 10,000 dollar closing fee is nothing but Howie attempt to extort money from owners. It’s a fact that the curves smart never worked and was not new technology as it was sold to curves owners, it’s a fact that over 250 owners are in the group action lawsuit and that another 1115 have signed on for the second wave, it’s a fact that Howie has rewritten the history of curves and it’s a fact you are nothing but a shill for Howie. None of these facts can be disputed.
You can make all the personal attacks you want but you can’t argue with the facts. Through out history the messenger has been attacked by people like you Several if my memory is correct were nailed on the cross so at least I can take comfort in the fact that I’m in good company and have helped hundreds upon hundreds of owners. How many have you helped. We all know on one you are trying to help need we say Howie. Two of a kind folks, in bed together and shortly to be in court.
You can call me anything you want and whatever suits your fancy today. Kenny, Gary, Howie, Diane, Napoleon, John Wayne. Say that all your critics are either shills, ADs, Curves lawyers, or some other paid employee. Call us morons and idiots. Say we are unethical, immoral, dishonest. Blame the Heavins, Curves, Obama, the economy, bored people, bad plumbing. Next you will say it is all a plot by Gary Findlay! Whatever you’d like.
Of course you are more interested in trying to attack your critics so that the message is ignored, but no one said that the second wave of people would pay anything. If your numbers are correct the first round of marks took care of that to the tune of $1,000,000. But even though it won’t cost the second wave anything, people keep bringing up that nasty little thorn in your side and point out that that the only people making anything on this will be the lawyers. That’s the first wave or second. Just like with Quizno’s but worse.
lets see Howe has extorted 10,000 dollars from owners who had to close early. Your the man with the know so how many people paid that or a portion of that considering Howie would lower it down to around 3000 when they balked at the 10,000. How many clubs have closed so far. Let see according to Curves International advertising they had over ten thousand clubs now they have less than 4000 at best. So that would mean 6000 X 10,000 = 60,000,000.00 at the most and the least 6,000 X 3000 =18,000,000.00.00 Howie has extorted some where between those amounts by demanding a so called closing fee. And you are worried about the lawyers getting rich. You are the only one that seems to care about Howie and everyone here sees that . Oh by the way I’m glad you brought up Gary Findley since he sued Howie in a group action lawsuit for 20 million and collected. I suppose he has hurt your reputation also.
Gee that closing fee will be our next group action lawsuit unless it is all refunded asap.
“And you are worried about the lawyers getting rich.”
Wow! You don’t think anyone should be concerned that the lawyers are going to get rich while the owners get poorer? Already they’ve gotten $1,000,000 from these desperate people. OF COURSE owners are concerned that the ONLY people benefiting from this are the lawyers. Because the flip side of that is the question of who is being DAMAGED, and it is NOT just the Heavins. Aren’t YOU worried about that? If your vendetta didn’t negatively effect the resale value for every owner out there, no one would give a crap.
You believe that the old proverb “The enemy of my enemy is my friend.” is an absolute. It isn’t. The Crips murder, rob, deal drugs, etc… – clearly bad “people”. Their sworn enemy are the Bloods who also murder, rob, deal drugs, etc… – and are equally bad “people”. Should the police be “friends” with the Bloods because they share a common enemy?
Every time you dismiss ANYONE disagrees with you as a shill or corporate stooge defending Curves you then make two false assumptions. One is that since Curves has screwed a ton of people and you are Curves’ enemy that everyone screwed by Curves MUST be on your side. The other is that anyone who DOES NOT agree with you IS on Curves’ side. You can’t fathom that no one has to choose. Will you beat your wife or beat your kid? Does it have to be an either or? No, you can choose to not do either one. Likewise they can believe that Curves screwed the pooch AND that you are out on a self serving vendetta that will benefit no one but the lawyers. False hope is no hope at all.
If you are successful, and other than a few faithful, no one really believe you will be, but if you are, what is left after you are done? Zarco’s coffers filled, your fellow litigants with pennies in their pockets and the rest of the owners? Russian Czars = bad. Their aftermath of their overthrow, better?
In the meantime, Curves is wasting money defending against this garbage when they could be using it to benefit the owners. Especially those that are struggling.
I’m not going to argue with you on your made up numbers. Curves has not collected closing fees from ALL those people. Not $10,000, not $3,000 and you damn well know it. So those are just made up numbers by you. Have some people paid it? Yes. But nowhere near the numbers or amount you are claiming. Your 6,000 closed number is pure guess and even then many of those simply didn’t renew and others didn’t pay a dime.
What we do know is that YOU say that 250 people joined your lawsuit and paid Zarco $4,000 each. That’s $1,000,000 to Zarco already and based on recent awards very little if anything will come out of any verdict to the owners. Why would anyone in their right mind do this? Because a drowning man will grasp the blade of a sword and cut off his own fingers in the HOPE that he may be saved. You point to the bad that Curves has done to justify this. As if a lesser evil is not really evil. Curves has taken millions from owners, so your argument is that it’s then OK that Zarco take another million in the HOPES that some owners will get pennies on the dollar? You seem fine with that. I guess you and I have a different definition of “help”.
Well so far today I have spoke to 5 more owners who disagree totally with you and have joined the second wave of lawsuits against curves all because of your rant. You see you can attack me all you want, you can disagree with how many clubs have closed and paid the closing fee as a result of the intimidation and extortion tactics used by curves but the majority of owners know what is happening and have personal experience with the unethical, immoral and illegal tactics used by Curves. It is hard not to see you as a stooge or plant from CI as not once have you even responded to the way that Curves has mismanaged the business or the concerns of the owners. Your only point you keep trying to raise is how much the lawyers are going to make and that for heaven sakes owners don’t sue as you will only get pennies on the dollar. Gee where have we as owners heard that before? Oh yes I remember now. Heavin has been spouting the same rhetoric at every meeting and fire side chat. ‘Another one of his and I’m sure yours is CI has not lost a single time in court . Hey guess what he is right so for as when they come up for trial CI quickly settles out of court and makes sure there is a confidentiality agreement signed so no one will know what CI settled for.
Of course your not going to argue about how much Howie has extorted from owners because you can’t lie about the facts. Our facts are right and you know it. period so go ahead and spout off all you want about the lawsuit. 99 % of the owners who come to this board know the real truth about Howie and in reality so do you if you even own a club.
Right on unhappy, it is so obvious when a person doesn’t own a club and works for CI. I wish they would go away.
Because I know that you “posers” are going to say that you own a club, or don’t work for CI. Then why are you here? What made you come to this site? The only people who come here are the ones that have the blinders off. So with that said you have to be a staff member of CI.
Next step,
Your are so right and thanks for your support. we will have some new breaking new about curves International and Howie latter this week and I don’t mind telling you it will be shocking. It has to do with all the excess costs CI has charged over the years such as when you sell a club and pay a transfer fee, or add someone on to your franchise agreement and pay a fee, and of course the closing fee which by the way owners Howie has gone back trying to charge owners by using threats and intimidation. Stay tuned as this maybe will be as big as the group action lawsuit.
Why are you here, Guest? You get some kind of twisted pleasure out of reveling in the suffering of others? You remind me of those Baptist protesters who gather and shout insults at soldiers’ funerals.
We’re here to share our stories of loss, and you’re here to criticize. Why?
Next Step, unhappy, Wiped Out:
Just honestly answer this question: If your clubs were independent and you were free from CI’s restrictions & fees, how successful would they be right now?
Would they be thriving fitness goldmines? Or would they be solid, stable and profitable, gaining enough members to cover those you lost each year?
Or would they be losing members? Just scraping by?
Or would they be struggling and losing money just like your Curves and all the other express fitness clubs?
Can you honestly say your clubs would be teeming with members if you were out from under the evil influence of Curves and could run it however you wanted? Well…?
I just got off the phone with the Texas BBB. I was told that they wouldn’t take my complaint because it fell outside of their parameters, They view any fanchisee/franchisor dispute as an employee/employer situation! The only suggestion the man had was going to the Labor Board (800-832-9243). Has anyone else been confronted by this reaction?
Guest
There are many clubs that have gone independent and are doing much better than existing clubs under the Curves banner. How much has to do with not having to pay franchise and advertising fees I don’t know. Is it ethical? Each owner must make his own decision on that but the way they have been treated by CI I don’t blame them. There is board discussing that if you will look at CURVES: Can Indie Clubs Thrive Where Curves Failed? you may find a better answer to your question.
NJNow,
Never Have I ran across that an am very puzzled by their response I am tied up for the next 3 days but will check in to that by the end of the week..
unhappy: Why don’t you answer the question? The question is about you and your club(s), specifically.
Next Step? Wiped Out…? Awfully quiet all of a sudden…
I have read major of the message posted on this site. And I will have to say alot of them have hit home. I purchased a Curves in my area about a year and half ago. The person I purchased it from lied about everything. She didn’t tell me about all the fee’s that you needed to pay. And Curves really didn’t ask alot of questions they just wanted their money to transfer the business.
I have spoke with someone on this site regarding all the stuff that Curves will try and have me do. I have decided I am not paying them a DIME and I will fight with everything I have to make sure they don’t get anything else from me.
I know there are 4 other Curves owners in my area that are not sure what to do. I told them how can you keep going when you know your losing more money everyday.
Thanks for letting me vent
Dee
Guest, I will be joining the second lawsuit, not because I enjoy lawsuits or expect to get even pennies on all the dollars I’ve given to Curves International. If CI had not sent me a demand letter for an exhorbitant amount of “future” royalties and ad fees, I would have just licked my wounds and gone away. But this demand has backed me into a corner, so I’m coming out fighting. What the lawyers make from this is irrelevant to me.
Record,
“What the lawyers make from this is irrelevant to me.”
But the damage done to the REST of the Curves out there IS relevant to every one of us who is still in business. If there was any reasonable chance that the owners involved in the suit would see significant rewards that might be different. But there isn’t. So all that is happening is that lawyers are getting richer and the value of open profitable clubs is getting reduced even more. Contrary to the claims that the so called shills are posting their SUPPORT for Curves, I look around and I don’t see ANY of that. I don’t see anyone posting how great or wonderful the Heavins or Curves Corperate are at all. But them being crap doesn’t make this harmless to us.
On the surface Don Quixote seems pretty harmless too. Well, to everyone except the OWNER of the windmills he attacked! In this case the enemy may be real, but it’s the collateral damage is real too. For anyone to tell us that WE shouldn’t be concerned with how this effects OUR businesses is as bad as CI. At this point the action will go forward, no one doubts that. Curves will have to see this one through to the bitter end to prevent the follow up from Zarco. So anyone hoping for a settlement is not going to be happy. This will go to trial because Curves can’t afford it not to. In the meantime those of us still in business need to protect our investment.
That is the answer those questions over the weekend wondering why any of us are here that DON’T support this lawsuit. You may not be concerned with what is relevant to those of us who are still opened, but WE are and this suit is NOT helping anyone except the lawyers. For the rest of us it’s actually hurting the value of our businesses with no hope of a reward to those involved.
Guest
I did answer you question. Independent clubs that were once Curves are doing better and even curves clubs that have gone rogue are doing better than most clubs. Most 24/7 clubs are doing better now than than when they weren’t 24/7 and have been able to keep their doors open by expanding the hours which CI now says is against the franchise agreement. Most owners believe that it is not against the agreement and may take the termination issue to court. Others are happy to be away from the Curves banner.
Sorry Guest Mondays are busy for me still. With that said I will make this point very clear. The economy down turn did not make me lose money. Nope I have lost money from the day I purchased into this franchise. Also I am not the only one. Out of the nine owners in my area, I speak with three regularly, and each of them have lost money on the business. Some of the other opened their clubs, so they do good enough. It was the resale’s that really got hit hard with these franchises in my area. Right now is harder then other times, but I have never been able to write myself a pay check. Almost 5 years now.
One may ask why I am still in it. The fact is that even though I can not pay myself the business does cover my loan payment. The day that changes is the day I close my doors.
Do I think that I will be more profitable without the curves name? I think that CI has killed the workout. It is bad management from the top to the bottom. The top being bad advertisement (WW commercials), allowing owners bad business practices, oversold areas, to people like me that had no fitness or business experience.
It is really silly to think that you don’t need experience to run a business. That some one is going to give you all the answers that you need. Well, that was not the truth CI did not equipped me with everything I needed to know from day one to operate this business. You know what, it is not possible to teach in 3 weeks all the things you need to know about business, nutrition, or kinesiology. Yes, I know we were to read about the nutrition and kinesiology prior to the class, but even still noting beats formal education or experience. But the selling point to this club is 30 minute workout, and anyone can do it or run one. Yep anyone can run one, but that doesn’t mean we will run it good.
I don’t know if I would have been profitable without Curves, but without their pitch, I never would have opened a fitness center. Why, because I had never workout or went on a diet until I purchased curves. Yes my fault. I know I have heard it a thousand times, “If it sounds to good to be true, then it probably is.”
Do you think that I don’t beat myself up over the fact that I am an idiot, that I work for nothing. I am soooo sorry that some time I feel the need to complain on this site, and read that I am not the only one going through this crap. I know that you don’t care you have an ulterior motive and that is why you are here. By the way at if you even own a club how many women reach their goal weight. (I know you are not going to answer that, because you have still failed to answer any questions I have asked you.) You know what I am not afraid to answer! Why because I don’t need to lie.
Failing and lying and business experience, You know what, that might just be why Gary failed in the first place, but he had experience. He learned instead of failing himself, he could have other do it for him.
No matter how mad I may be it is absolutly my fault for failing, no for purchasing this place in the first place. That is why for the past 4 years when someone calls and says I want to purchase a club, and ask my opinion I say, “If it was doing good they would not want to sell” RUN
I see one thing and Guest I am going to bet u too it.
When I said “Yep anyone can run one, but that doesn’t mean we will run it good.”
I know how to run a business, I even know how to do all the IRS forms. I pay nothing to advertise my business, and can get plenty of members in a month. I failed because I did not know how to get the members the results they wanted. I know what it will take, but that will violate my franchise agreement. Yes I can do the weight management class, and keep them working out, but the diet is hard to follow, and people get tired of the workout.
unhappy what do you mean
“have gone rogue “
By rogue I mean doing things that are defiantly against your franchise agreement just to keep your doors open. Unfortunately many owner who are still open did just that from the beginning. One prime example of that is in the metro areas where some owners opened on their boarders instead of the middle of their territories. From 1995 until late 2003 Curves prevented this from happening but once the top management was fired Howie didn’t care where they opened and allowed this practice. If the adjoining territories club complained, which many did it feel on deaf ears at corporate. If the neighbor club advertised in your protected area and you complained again it fell on deaf ears and nothing was ever done to stop the practice even though it was a violation of your franchise agreement. In many cases this allowed unfair competition between clubs and again was a direct result of mismanagement from the top of CI.
Next Step,
Don’t be too hard on your self. It sounds as if you are one of the owners who is trying and putting in one hundred percent! Without the help from corporate it is hard for any franchise to be successful. Our thoughts will be with you and you will be added to our prayer list. Good Luck and keep your chin held high as you have help many women in your community live stronger and better lives.
Next Step: Thanks for your thorough & frank answer.
unhappy: You still dodge the question, which is not about other clubs, but asks specifically whether you think your clubs (YOUR clubs) would be thriving, breaking even or failing if you had operated them independently without the restrictions and fees of Curves. You want to blame the founder for your misfortune but isn’t the truth that you gambled on the longevity of 30 minute women’s fitness – just like CI did – and lost? Maybe CI sucks but can you really say you’d be thriving without them?
(FYI I’m not the only one posting as “guest”)
“But the damage done to the REST of the Curves out there IS relevant to every one of us who is still in business.”
Then tell your friends at CI to call off the dogs. Many of us would just like to get on with our lives. But attempting to extort failure fees and future royalties after we’ve already lost so much is simply cruel, even if those fees were in our franchise agreements — per my lawyer, they are not in mine.
You sound frantic, fearful, and desperate that your club might have to close at some point. When you get those demand letters from CI, what will you do? This is just for you to think about — no response necessary.
Someone has already mentioned Maddoff on this site once,
I have been looking at my children sleeping, as I sat here thinking about how this club has consumed my life. How my children have suffered. My marriage has suffred. How my only options are to try to make it work or file bankruptcy. We don’t have a nice home, we need our credit. My eyes fill with tears, and I think how did it go so wrong. It hit me I understand the connection between the two. It is in times are hardship the companies with strong infrastructure, good management, business acuity, they make it. Not companies that are held together with strings where the ideas of 10 years ago were good, but not enough to hold it together now. Where the greed of the corporation has ran wild (smart and over saturating), and the allowance of resale’s at prices that were not justified.
This was their business model! They knew I was paying too much for this place. They did not call and say, “Hey seller you are overstate the value of this club based upon projection sheets. We won’t let you rip someone off. Come down on your price or don’t sell” Nope they didn’t do anything of the sort. I paid the ridicules amount. I did not know how easy it was to falsify the documents. But CI they new the truth. They had the reports.
I don’t want to hear about stronger together. I want to tell them to go **** themselves, because not even from day one were they here to help me. Nope! They were the ones with the experience and they did not say hey wait Next Step this price is wrong. They just took their money and went on their happy little way. Yep they are like Maddoff in that regard. The sad part is they could have helped me out and still received their money. They could have protected their business. How many would still be open if the bought a club that was not inflated?
No Curves is not a ponzi scheme, but when times get tough it is easy to see this fraud. I have just been living it for the past 4 years. I want it to be over, and I don’t know how to make it stop. I want earn a living and help people. I don’t want to rip anyone off.
My heart hurts.
I have been thinking a lot about your post guest and many of the other posts I have read:
I wanted to comment on what you said earlier: ”Just honestly answer this question: If your clubs were independent and you were free from CI’s restrictions & fees, how successful would they be right now?”
Just to give you a little background in talking with other clubs we may be one of the few profitable clubs left in the system. However if you broke down how much my business partner and I work to how much we make we will probably be making more flipping burgers (however most small business owners work just as much –I grew up in a family who always owned a small business but I do have to say my parents were paid a lot more then I am for the hours I put in). It has taken considerable time away from my family and the stress…well I don’t even want to think about the years I have shaved off my life however I don’t blaim that on Curves (I do partially for their missmanagement of the brand but I am willing to take the blame for some in that I knew what I was getting into…. 80% of small businesses fail so that is a gamble I knew I was taking)
Unfortunatley, a lot of people Curves sold clubs to did not realize this and in my personal opinion Curves should have better veted their franchisees and that would have helped some but their infrastructure would need a major over haul for them to remain viable and they would need to work on the idea of integrity. I remember going to club camp and there was a lady there talking about leaving her buisness to her children when she gets older and I could remember thinking to myself that while it was a great concept I did not think it would be around that long.
I can say our area was “lucky” and we were not cannibalized. However despite that I know most of the owners in our area and I can honestly say many of them are struggling right now. I believe that I can only speak for my club and my area and realize every situation is different.
Here is what I can say, in the beginning I would not have been better off without CI. Even now I can say I don’t know (AT THIS EXACT POINT IN TIME) if I would be better off with out CI. But I can honestly say this, that if the company does not realize that times are changing and that for a company to stay on top they need to be able to change and adapt to today’s market and not hang onto outdated practices and conduct business ethically then yes in the immediate future, I will be much better off and much more profitable without CI.
The problem with franchises and this is a problem with A LOT of franchises not just Curves is they no longer have people in the clubs knowing what it takes to run a club. Think about it… what makes a great manager or owner? They are willing to do the things their employees do, scrub the toilets and do all the things that the staff does and you get staff that is willing to follow you anywhere because they realize you talk the talk and back it up by walking the walk. Curves stopped talking the talk and walking the walk along time ago. Yes Gary donated his personal money for advertising and they have done some other things but that does not make them know what it still takes to run and operate a club.
As I said earlier Curves sold franchises to people they should not have been sold franchises to, people who did not have business sense. Is there an ethical issue with that? I think so but it’s not my conscious that was selling the franchises and people can argue the other way I am sure. Nowadays if you feel you are denied an opportunity, you can sue so I don’t know if there is making everyone happy. The big reason the housing market is in the state it is in is because the government felt it was not fair to deny an opportunity to everyone even if they could not afford their mortgage….. hence our economy right now. If you were trying to sell your house and the government came and told you that you could only sell it for x amount because that is what they thought it was worth, there would be uproar. If Curves stepped in and told franchisees that they could not re-sell their clubs over a certain amount everyone would have gone crazy. The economy was FANTASTIC, how many of you paid more for your house than what it’s worth now?? So I don’t know if it is fair to blaim that on them. Now as far as selling areas that were not viable and charging all their fees that is a whole nother cup of tea.
I realize I have not walked in the shoes of either party although from the ACTIONS of CI I will say that I have more faith in the integrity of the franchisees in our system and those who have closed then I do in CI.
This comment is for whichever guest posted earlier… unless you are part of Curves International or you are one of these clubs that have closed or are dealing with Curves trying to take you down because you have converted your club to 24/7 or extended hours I don’t think you can give a fair assessment because you don’t have all the facts so you don’t know what size the shoe really is because you have not tried it on.
Again all of this is just my opinion…..
Curves owner,
I understand a lot of what you said it the truth. I do know that I really had the ability to run a business, but I went out of my league with a fitness center, since I had no experience in that area.
I do want to say I don’t think that CI should have capped the amount a business should have been sold for. However, When I purchased my club all the books showed an extra 150 check draft members. This was not the case, but CI new how much money the club was projecting.
My struggle with this company started the day I unlocked the door. I know that others will say that it is all my fault, and I take 99% of the responsibility for purchasing a company at an overstated amount. However when I sent the forms into curves I stated that there was 325 CD members and projection sheets should have had it around 175. They had that information. They could have told me that something was not quite right.
As for the question would I be better off now without CI. I think so! These last years I have dedicated my time to obtaining the exercise knowledge that I needed to make my club work. That is the path that lead me to realize if CI doesn’t change some of this program we are all doomed. It is not the economy. By the way my club has been open for 13 years now. The landlord told me since 03 we have had problems paying the rent.
Weight Watchers Gets Ad Injunction Vs. Curves
The battle of the bulge is getting increasingly litigious.
Weight Watchers International, Inc. today announced that the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York has issued a preliminary injunction restraining Curves International, Inc. from airing or otherwise disseminating Curves’ commercial called “Something New.”
The court order is a “stipulated” preliminary injunction, meaning the two parties stipulated their agreement to it, a Weight Watchers PR agency spokesperson tells Marketing Daily.
The injunction bars Curves International Inc. and its franchisees from “airing, broadcasting, publishing or disseminating” in the U.S. the commercial titled “Something New” in “any form or in any version or in any medium” (including but not limited to television, cable television, print and the Internet) “during the pendency of this action.” A next court date in the suit has not yet been set, according to the Weight Watchers spokesperson.
The court action, dated March 1, comes out of a suit originally filed by Weight Watchers in Manhattan federal court last October, charging the international fitness chain Curves with false advertising, trademark infringement and other causes of action. The principal charge was that Curves “used the Weight Watchers trademarks to garner consumer attention and divert consumers to purchase Curves’ services as part of a ‘bait and switch’ advertising tactic,” according to the Weight Watchers release.
Last September, Curves launched a campaign promoting itself as both a diet and fitness solution, highlighting its new 30-day diet plan. The “Something New” commercial, run on national cable TV networks, shows a woman who is heading toward a Weight Watchers location being intercepted by a van full of women who instead transport her to a nearby Curves location, where she is informed about the new diet plan and shown signing up for Curves. The message conveyed by the interceptors: “Weight Watchers? Oh, no, girl, you’re going to try something new.”
The campaign, which marked the first time Curves had taken a head-to-head approach against a competitor in its advertising, also included online, radio and print components, Adweek reported last September.
At filing time, Curves International had not yet responded to Marketing Daily’s request for comment on the stipulated preliminary injunction.
I have decide to close my club April 1st we can no longer afford to keep it running. Now I am working with a rep from curves. And they are requesting that I return my Curves Smart, they stated that I can not sell it. As far as I am concerned I purchased this from Mytrak. Has anyone else had this request and what did you do? I am not going to destroy my equipment or give it away either.
I am working with Curves so that they know that I am closing my Curves but I am very cautions as to what paperwork I will sign and information I will give them.
Thanks Dee
If anyone can give me a little insight as to what they did I would be more than greatful.
First I am sorry to hear that you are closing, and I am personally counting down the days until my contract ends. I talked with mytrak a few weeks ago, and the only clubs that can have the system is curves. MyTrak will not licenses it’s use for any other club. Co ed or not. I talked to several people at mytrak to verify this. Which I think sucks because we paid so much for the system. As for the equipment I am not sure if you have to destroy it or not, but I talk to gofig today and they said owners are not destroying their equipment. My advice is talk to a unhappy about it. If you look at previous post you will find an email address. Send unhappy your number and a name. I think you will get all the answers you need. Good luck with everything and I agree about signing anything from CI.
here is the email address: unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com
Dee,
I am sorry to hear about your situation and your closing. Do not send any files to CI such as current or archive members and do not sign anything until you either send an email to Sean address unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com requesting he forward it to me with your phone number and I will contact asap or talk to a lawyer.
Guest, our club was going great guns until Curves announced they were opening a territory to our west. We bought it to keep our members who lived there from leaving. Had CI left that territory empty, we’d likely still be open today.
Now both clubs are gone, as is our house and most of our next egg. Oversaturation destroyed us. Curves was even talking about opening ANOTHER territory to the west of that OTHER club until they saw our clubs go under. 10,000 Curves? INSANE!
unhappy,
I spoke with you last friday regarding my closing. And I want to thank you for the information you gave me it was very helpful and as per our conversation I refuse to give Curves any of my members name and information. I have also passed on your information to another club that is in worse shape than mine. I am hoping she will contact you. We live in Iowa and we have spoken to our lawyer but there is only so much a lawyer in our state that we can do. Our choices are pay curves or file bankruptcy well I really don’t want to do either. here is my email address- [redacted]
Next Step,
Reading your post I had the same issue when I purchased my club I had so few members I wasn’t sure how I could make it. It made me mad knowning that a person could sale a business that was in the red. CI had to of known that this club was not doing so well.
Did you close a club and if so what did you do with your equipment? From your above post it looks like you are still in business.
The one thing I will miss is my members they are wonderful people. Thank goodness I am good friend with the club closest to me that is where I am transfering most of my members. I really feel that Curves was a good idea at one time but business must change with the times and ask people what they want out of a workout.
I was just trying to figure out if anyone else sent their Curves Smart back to Curves. I am thankful that I did not purchase the upgrade when I purchased this Curves it already had it installed.
Thanks Dee
wipedout,
ci tried to do the same thing to us.. only they didnt.
Closing my Club,
Yes I am hanging in here. I talked with two new owners in my area, and they are desperate in trying to make their clubs profitable. I said good luck, and gave them all the tips I had. I know the town one of them is in has had a slow decline in membership since 05. The club was wonderful, but I think the longer our workout is in the town the less interesting it is to our town’s people.
As for when I will close. I am holding on until I renew. If I can. It looks like this year is going to be hard, but I have to make it. I need my credit; I don’t want to file bankruptcy. I am very tempted to convert to a 24/7 gym and let CI know, so they can close me down, but I am sure they would sue me anyway. I have 14 months left, and then I will be running away!
People can say what they want, but the down turn did not do Curves in, we were on the road to failure years ago. CI doesn’t want to change anything, and since they would not the clubs are dying. Remember my club has been open since 97’. When I look back at the membership files from then to now, there is a steady decrease in membership after 03’. We lost half of our members, and now we just manage to keep a certain level of members.
This reminds me of the 07 regional meetings or convention, I can’t remember which. Where Gary said that some clubs where going to fail, and they (CI) was going to let them. OK so we are failing, and why do you find the need to crush them! I am sorry you are a bastard. Let the people who failed move on with their lives. My members are appalled at Gary’s behavior. I have not kept it a secrete, since so many members want to know what happened to the clubs where they visit often. I have already began letting my older members know I might be closing next spring. No way am I reselling this money pit! And I am not taking any more prepays starting in May.
My members are really trying to keep my sprits up, but I also want them to know that now is a time to save money and I understand. However, make Curves you last cut or I may have to close down now. They are working for me to get more members, so they don’t lose their club. The fact is that I have always been about 52 members off from break even. My new sales have off set the expense. Those sales are not there right now. No matter how hard they try we are still not gaining in memberships.
Next Step
What you said about Gary is what I heard from one of the other curves owners that has been around since 03. Wouldn’t you think that you would want to see your business successed (meaning all the curves, without our clubs he has no money) I guess he doesn’t realize that if we fail that means that he has failed as well. I guess he isn’t seeing it that way.
If I could have done the 24/7 I think I would have done it. You know it would hurt to try.
Good Luck with your club. I really hope you are able to keep it open. With the way things are going it hard to know from day to day what will happen.
I also remember him saying on the stage that some areas were oversold. I really want to say it was regional 07. I was at the one he was. I remember that he talked about the lawsuit that someone from the east coast had filed, and showed a picture of a witch on the big screen. I still had my blinders on at this point. I kept thinking if I could just do a little better it will turn around. Eight months later I go the smart, and another 6 months the blinders were off. I knew that no matter what I did this company was never going to turn around.
I think they thought that they could just keep selling and selling and it won’t hurt anyone. Getting greedy like a lot of business do.
Something interesting— I was told by a rep at CI that I would have to return my Curves Smart II once I close so they are sending pre-paid boxes. Well just yesterday I received an email from my Area Director stating that 2 clubs one in MN and one in WI are selling their curves smart II. Why can they sale theirs but I have to send my back so I have sent a email to CI asking the question WHY guess what I haven’t gotten a response.
I worked for a Curves, the women who owned it was as crooked at Gary H. They must of taught her well ( CI) she didnt even pay us till 2 months later, and closed 1 week before Chrisitmas 2008, the sad part is she still has one open and closed 3, with-out paying anything she owed back to the customers of the ones she closed, My God, she even kept their stinky shoes. One took her to court, and nothing paid back yet, but she sits there 30 miles away and is open for business, How does that work? The y say its individual franchises , but really owners like that.. hurt everyone,and NO one will ever open one up in the 26,000 pop, place that she closed for crappy, I know in 7 years Curves will be history. or sooner.
From eBay:
“I have complete set of equipment from a Curves for Women franchise. The owner of the franchise left the equipment after going out of business. It appears to be in very good condition with minimal or no wear. This includes 14 machines, 13 warm up pads, and wall posters. It’s too nice to scrap, I have rented the building to another tenant and need to remove this ASAP. ”
Item location: Berkeley Heights, New Jersey, United States
Ships to: Local pick-up only
Ended: Feb 25, 201011:51:44 PST Bid history: 15 bids
Winning bid: US $1,025.00
“This is the whole package.Each piece is$1200 new.All 13 pieces are in like new condition or excellent condition.There are 13 pieces of equipment and 11 step mats.This item can only be picked up and i will help put in your truck.Store went out of business and need to be moved now.These are not heavy.”
Item location: Boston, MA, United States
Ships to: Local pick-up only
Ended: Feb 27, 201018:26:03 PST
Bid history: 19 bids
Winning bid: US $1,000.00
Craig’s List: “Curves fitness center equipment (arkansas) We are getting out of the fitness business and have 14 pieces of commercial quality hydraulic fitness equipment in excellent condition. We also have lots of other fitness equipment including 2 elipticals, recumbant bike, ab lounger and assundry other items. the whole fitness center of equipment for $3,000. Call 479-206-3640 for pictures and details.”
Craig’s List: “Hydraulic Fitness Equipment-used at Hydraulic fitness equipment from a local downtown Curves for SELL! Prices are negotiable! Please call 214-752-0344 and ask for Ashley. ”
“Silent Auction-Closing Curves Fitness Center (Downtown Dallas)”
GOING OUT OF BUSINESS — EVERYTHING MUST GO
SILENT AUCTION
MONDAY, MARCH 1ST – 12 NOON TO 1:00 PM
110 North Akard — Dallas, TX 75201
Cash & Carry
Exercise Equipment
10 piece Curves Circuit Workout Equipment
12 Recovery Boards (See attached description)
1 Curves Stretching Station
3 Exercise Balls
1 Standing Weighing Scale “
Craig’s List: “Curves smart system – $1500 (Mesa, AZ)
——————————————————————————–
Date: 2010-02-17, 6:29PM MST
Reply to: sale-bgmp7-1605642965@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
——————————————————————————–
Selling Curves equipment and smart system”
Craig’s List: CURVES FITNESS EQUIPMENT – $100 (5234 W MISSOURI AVE)
——————————————————————————–
Date: 2010-03-05, 9:37AM MST
Reply to: sale-xeb4y-1629747950@craigslist.org [Errors when replying to ads?]
——————————————————————————–
THERE ARE 13 CURVES FITNESS MACHINES AVAILABLE. CURVES FITNESS CLOSED AND ALL WAS LEFT BEHIND. THEY ARE IN EXCELLENT CONDITION. THEY ARE $100 EACH. LOCATION IS AT AUCTION HOUSE. PLEASE CALL 602-885-1149 TO ARRANGE VIEWING AND PICKUP.
To Sue,
It is such a shame to hear that about an owner but it happens way too much. I know of an owner who sells walking poles and he ran for the CFA in the last elections and won. He was able to use his influence to get CI to approve a walking pole and he has the the rights to sell them now to all Curves clubs. He is now pushing all clubs to start a walking class in order for him to line his pockets off of the sales of walking poles. Nothing but a low life just the same as Howie lies lies and lies. If it sounds like a duck it is a duck and unfortunately this time the guy is a dick trying to make money off of other Curves owners. They should change his name from Don to Donald Duck.
Sue,
I know in the end the members are the ones that hurt the most. Anyway your point about the way the owner acted is true. I know that many owners have failed to cancel members, or send payments for transferring members. As bad as CI is so are the owners. Over all a lot of towns will never be able to have another Curves. Well CI may try to sell them (They are saying they are not right now), but I think if a person in a few years tries to reopen in that town they will be destine to fail. Word of mouth is powerful. Isn’t that what Curves used for advertising in the beginning.
About the WW suit. The damage is done with the relationship we had with local WW sites. Another way CI managed to damage the clubs. Did GH really think that we could compete with them? We are no way even close to them in diet. I am not saying I think the WW diet is better, because I don’t think it is. However, I don’t see how in the world he thought that the commercial would benefit the local curves. I think he just wanted to appease his ego to the detriment of our clubs. I am sure he also wants to get back lost revenue.
Hey maybe he lost his revenue and goodwill of his clubs when he oversold areas, and then he turned his club owners into cut throat bastard like himself. They had mortgages to pay and no cash flow to pay it with.
Unhappy,
Last week you said some new developments would occur at the end of last week concerning CI’s charging closing fees. I haven’t seen anything regarding this. Were there any developments?