CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story
The American dream of owning your own successful business seems to be going up in smoke for a lot of the Curves Franchise owners. The story you are about to read may seem like a Steven King horror novel but it is a real story that has happened to my wife and I. To all of the past, present and future owners of a Curves franchise please take the time to read the whole story as at the end we explain what we plan to do and how you as an ex or present owner may want to get involved.
My wife and I had owned and operated our own business for over 20 years and had been very successful at doing so. While we were making a great income from our business there was something missing in our life. Neither us felt that we were contributing to society but just taking and we decided to make a major change in our life. That was when we heard about Curves for Women. It was a new franchise that only had 300 or so clubs and for the first time in years we both became excited at the prospect of actually helping people reach their goals. We bought our first club in 1997 located in a city of thirty thousand. From the first day it opened it was more successful than our wildest dreams. Not only were we making excellent money but the personal rewards helping people better their lives was a truly rewarding feeling. I can still remember as if it was yesterday the first time a Dr. of one of our members came in to check out what we were doing as he couldn’t believe the ch
anges his patient had gone through. She had gotten off her high blood medication and had lost over 40 pounds in 4 months. It was truly amazing and over the years we have seen it happen numerous times over and over.
We sold our first club in 2001 and bought two more franchises. My wife became a mentor for Curves International around this time and I was helping to sell franchise for Curves International as so many of are members wanted to own a club. It was at this time that we started to see problems arising with Curves International but we attributed it to the fast growth that Curves was going through. In 2002 we bought two more franchises but this time they were in what was called a metro-area instead of city under thirty thousand in population.
The first problem we encountered with Curves International was in early 2003. Curves sold a franchise that was a corridor of land between one of our franchise’s and the next city 8 miles from our southern boarder. It was obvious to us that the territory didn’t have the necessary population to support a facility and that Curves International was selling any location just out of greed and the fact that there were so many people who wanted a franchise. The people who bought that franchise tried to open up on our border but it had always been an unwritten but followed rule of Curves International that you open in the middle of your territory so that disputes between owners over stealing members from your territory didn’t arise. We immediately filed a complaint with Curves International and they stopped the new owner from opening at that location. Unfortunately for the new owners there were no other commercial locations between the two cities so they were forced into selling that franchise back to Curves International for a loss.
It was also at this time that Curves International started to change personnel. The employee’s who we had a personal relationship with that had started Curves International with Gary Heavin were leaving the company at an alarming rate. Seven employees that were the top management of Curves left or were forced out because of Gary Heavin’s greed. They ended up filling a law suit against Curves which was later settled out of court. It was at this time that Diane Heavin became involved with Curves and a whole new history was being written about how Curves was started. The original Curves member guide which was written by Gary Heavin and June Manley was taken off the market and the new Curves book authored by of course Gary Heavin was on the top 10 of the Times best seller list.. To make sure it was on the Times best seller list all the clubs had to order at least on case. That is when we as owners realized Heavin was a manipulator and not the born again Christian he portrayed to be. It was also at this time that the price to buy a franchise more than doubled in price. This came as quite a surprise as Heavin had always maintained that he would never ever increase his franchise price and he even swore on the bible in front of a group at club camp that he would never break his word on that. Well as we all know he didn’t keep that promise for long, which just shows his greed.
At this point my wife and I became quite concerned and even considered selling our business but other problems arose concerning Curves International that demanded our full attention. In 2004 another Curves location located on our boarder of one of our metro-areas hired two of our employees and stole around 15 members from our club. Both employees had signed the anti covenant not to compete and in our state those agreements are strictly enforced by the courts. We considered going to court but since it was another Curves facility we decided to file a complaint with Curves International. And to let them handle it. What a mistake that was as they did nothing. We transferred the members files but refused to transfer the money for the members dues until such time that Curves International responded to our complaint. We were told by the area director, which was a new position at Curves International, that we were trouble makers and he refused to send any of are clubs the members appreciation bags. Shortly thereafter Curves International resold the corridor of land that had been sold back to them at a loss from the previous owners and they allowed the new owners to open up in nearly the same location that they had refuse the previous owners only a year and a half before. The new owners advertised in our area and ended up getting 10 or 11 members to transfer to their club. Again we held their monthly dues but did transfer the members files. We immediately filed a complaint but again got the same response nothing. It didn’t take long for most of the members who transferred to come back to our club as the other location was small and in a very run down area and to this day that club has not shown a profit and has been sold numerous times over the years for little to nothing.
Then in 2005 the real problems with Curves International started that we are still contending with today. In one of our metro-areas a competitor by the name of Ladies Workout Express opened up right across the street from our location. Unknown to us they had hired our manager and one other employee from that location and when the employee’s left they had stolen off our computer our member files. They ended up stealing over two thirds of our membership with in a week. The employees had signed the covenant not to compete so we immediately hired a lawyer and prepared for a lawsuit. As I stated before in our state that agreement is strictly enforced but it took four months to get it into court. During this time that location was losing so much money that we decided to move the location next to our other territory so that both clubs could stay open. We sent in the required change of location form to Curves International but never heard anything back from them so we went ahead and relocated in late 05. The owners of the Ladies Workout Express eventually went broke because of the lawsuit and the fact that they would end up owing us monetary damages. They filed for bankruptcy to prevent us from collecting any monetary awards in Dec 05 but we did have the satisfaction knowing that we did what was right
In early 06 we were informed by Curves International that because we abandon that location they were terminating all of our franchise agreements. We immediately requested mediation for all of our clubs which is authorized by our franchise agreements with Curves International. We never heard back from them so we hired a lawyer in Waco, TX to represent us. He proceeded to send them a letter requesting the same mediation process and they did respond to him. They sent him letter stating that it was premature to go through the mediation process at that time as they were in the process of researching our reason for moving. Curves International continued to debit our account for the franchise and advertising fees for all the other clubs we owned but stopped talking the fees for the one territory that they stated we abandoned. The lawyer had us send Curves International a check for the fees and a new authorization form for them to deduct it from our account. Neither our lawyer or ourselves ever heard anything back from Curves International so we all assumed that things were back to normal.
In the spring of 07 we made the decision to start selling off all of our clubs and to completely retire. It didn’t take me long to sell the club we owned that wasn’t in a metro-area and I agreed to stay with the new owner’s to help train them how to run the business. We sent all the documentation into Curves International and the sale was completed by January 08. That freed my wife and I up to concentrate on our metro-area clubs and to get them ready for sale. In Feb of 08 we heard that a Curves club was opening in one of our territories within a mile of our current club. We could not understand how Curves International could do such a thing. We again filed a complaint by phone and e-mail to Curves International and several weeks later we were informed by e-mail that they didn’t know what we were talking about. We were told we didn’t own any franchises and hadn’t since we were terminated in 05. That came as quite a shock to my wife and I as our franchise and advertising fee’s had been deducted all along from our checking account and we had just recently sold a club that they were telling us we never owned. We had a local lawyer send a letter to the new owners explaining the situation and that we would be seeking legal recourse against Curves International and depending on the outcome they were opening themselves up to a potential lawsuit. During this time we had bought and paid in full for the Smart Equipment for Curves International and were waiting for the installation which was scheduled for the June 24th. On June 20th , a Friday we received a phone message telling us that the Curves Smart Installation was canceled and that we had to call Curves legal for an explanation. We left messages both e-mail and phone every 30 minutes on Monday June 23rd and finally late in the afternoon we received an e-mail stating that one of there lawyers would be in touch with us before the end of the day, They never sent an e-mail or a phone call as was promised but by mid day the next day they did respond by e-mail. It stated because of the problems with the members transfers, the fact that we abandoned a franchise, and that we had interfered with the opening of the new franchise located in our territory we weren’t approved for the Curves Smart. Yet in late May they had sent all the promotional ad material for the Curves Smart and of course we had gone to a considerable amount of expense for training the employees, advertising and promotion of the Curves Smart equipment. It was at this point that my wife and I decided that drastic action had to be taken against Heavin and Curves International.
While we still love the concept of Curves we feel that because of the deceptive and we believe fraudulent business practices that Heavin has allowed under his management Curves will eventually end up in the toilet so to speak. After spending many hours on the internet we have found that there are many lawsuits against this man and his company. Just read some of the post’s that are on franchisepick.com from owners concerning the new ten thousand fee if your club goes under and closes to the vitamins that were sold in Feb and March by Ideas in Action at a discount to owners without telling them that they would expire at the end of May. The lack of support and communication from Curves International that all of us owners are going through is intolerable. It is impossible for an owner to get through to them on the phone and good luck if you expect a call back in a timely manor. The fact that we as owners pay a lot of money for our advertising fees and have no accounting of where it is spent and a quite frankly we never see many ads in our area.
I have taken the time to do the necessary research to find several good lawyers who handle franchise law who are more than willing to help Curves owners who are having similar problems with Curves. I for one am going to go after Curves International and Gary Heavin in a court of law. These are not class action but group action lawsuit and if you don’t understand the difference contact me and I will explain it to you. There have been over 200 such lawsuit filed against Curves in the last several years and while some have been settled in mediation others are in the process of going to litigation. If you are a past or present Curves owner who has experienced these problems and want satisfaction whether it be monetary or revenge please contact me. We have several options that we can go and I for one am positive we will win as the other lawsuits have been successful so far and have set a precedent for ours. It is time for the owners of Curves franchises either past or present to stand up together and put a stop to Heavins’s ramped destruction of peoples lives just for monetary greed.
Thanks for reading our post and God Bless you all.
ARE YOU AN CURVES FRANCHISE OWNER OR FORMER CURVES FRANCHISEE?
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CURVES FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITY?
PLEASE SHARE A COMMENT BELOW.
Elizabeth,
Don’t pay any attention to jd post. He is not a curves owner and we have found that it is best not to even respond to his posts as he lack any knowledge of how Curves works or how corrupt Howie is in the way he has mismanaged Curves International. Unfortunately we get people like him here on this site occasionally and if we res[pond to him he just continues to write his worthless opinion not based on fact. Most of us here just ignore his posts and don’t even read what he has to say as it is usually not relevant and derogatory.. Some people just like to make an ass out of themselves and he certainly does that. With that said I will respond in short order to your above post shortly.
Will anyone give me more detailed information on what happened to your franchise and why you were not successful and had to close. I hear alot about Curves not being supportive, what do you mean by that. Like I have stated before I am looking into purchasing an existing franchise and would like to hear what everyone has to say about why there business failed.
There is a story here about how sellers can lie about their membership to inflate their sale price. I just found it again here:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-franchise-resale-buyer-alleges-fraud/
The seller sold clubs and gave the real number of people who were being billed and the real revenue coming in. Thats what they based the sale price on. But 600 of those “members” had cancelled and just didn’t know they were still being billed because it just showed up on their statements as “merchant” When the new owners switched the billing and it showed up as Curves, these ex-members realized they were being swindled and came after the new owner.
It’s pretty clear that a lot of franchisees are guilty of unauthorized billing – or at least billing without the members knowing they are still paying. How many of them cheat their members then cry foul when they are cheated?
Poor unhappy, getting upset at me again.
What i said to Elizabeth, should be a lesson for anyone looking into buying any existing company. She obviously didn’t go into the details of the bank statement, otherwise she would’ve seen that they were putting their own money in. If people don’t do the appropriate due diligence, then why attempt it at all. As for a point that I made earlier this week, why not ask the seller to escrow a certain portion of the purchase price, in case there is that ‘fraud’. Pay for it on your own, give them a nice interest rate, and make sure that it’s reviewed by an attorney to keep you safe in the event of fraud.
As for unhappy, how often do you talk from both sides? First, you claim that Curves does little to nothing in the transfer process, so much so that you tried to say that the transfer fees would be illegal in most states, to now saying that Elizabeth could sue Curves for selling her the store deceptively.
Elizabeth,
When you bought the club as a resale the previous owner had to submit the total active members to CI as well as the latest projection sheet and the purchase price. CI would have known by that information that the previous owners were deceptively selling the club by inflating the numbers and if you had seen the projected sheet you could have compared the bank statement to see that it was wrong also. Howie and CI had a responsibility to inform you of that deception but of course Howie didn’t do that. Why? Because he is dishonest, lacks moral fiber, has no integrity, and is unethical in most of our opinions, Simply stated he is a crook and has no backbone or moral compass
.As far as the two days decision ultimatum there is nothing in you agreement that would relate to that and you can take as long as you want to make a decision. It is just CI way of trying to intimidating you into doing what they ask .
As far as the money they are demanding from you for closing whether it be the so called closing fee or future royalty and advertising fees they can not force you to pay them neither can they tell you what to do with the equipment. They will use every dirty trick to try to get you to but don’t believe it as it is illegal in the state of TX and Howie knows that. There are certain thing that you need to be aware of when closing and steps you need to protect yourself against and I would be more than happy to go over them with you, Pl;ease send the email to the admin at this email address with your phone number asking him to forward it to me and I will contact you asap. the email address is unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com
Did anyone refuse to pay the future royalty and advertising fees after closing and if so what are the consquences? can you just walk away by not paying anything or do CFW take you to court?
Also, does the answer depend on the country of the franchisee as am from Turkey and the agreement I signed states that any law suit will take place in the UK,as opposed to the US
Any past experiences on similar situations are much appreciated
Julie,
Every owner has different reasons for closing basically because they were losing money but all owners have the common complaints with curves International and the way Howie has mismanaged the business. In most successful franchises the franchisor builds the business with revenue streams meant to help the franchisee make money but this is not the case with Curves. Howie way of doing business is where all the money goes to him and CI not to the franchisee. A prime example of this is how Howie expects you to buy merchandise with the Curves logo at ridiculously high prices and than to give them to your members as an incentive to workout at your club. Howie tells you that it is good advertising but you pay an advertising fee based on a percentage of net income but you never see any adds for curves since 2003. Furthermore when you do order from Howie’s company Ideas in Action they are usually out of stock and most items are on back order and way over priced. Another prime example of this is when they came up with a nutritional bar that were sold in the clubs. Owners bought them for 50 cents and were able to sell them for a dollar. Owners couldn’t keep enough in stock and were making an extra 2 to 3 hundred a month on them. Howie saw that and decided to sell them to discount stores cheaper that owners could buy them for. Once they showed up in the stores the members became upset with owners as the members felt the owners were overcharging them. It created huge problems for the owners. Another example of this would be when CI offered the vitamins and supplements at a huge discount to owners. Most owners bought them only to find out that they were expiring in 30 days and had to be thrown out and could not be sold. Howie refused to refund any of the owners money for them. these type of examples just go on and on.
Another common thread to why so many have closed is because Howie does not enforce or protect owners territory rights. Ever since 2003 he has allowed franchises to open on the edge of their territory. This has cause major problems for owners who were built in then center of the territory as the neighbor would advertise in your territory which is protected under your contract and yet when you complained Howie refused to do anything about the complaint. Howie refuses to give any kind of support to the owners which you have the right as a franchise to expect.
In any franchise you have an agreement between the franchisor and the franchisee which state the obligation of both parties and you have an expectation of that to be followed but with Howie that is not the case. You are left on your own and if the neighboring club doesn’t follow the guidelines such as offering different equipment such as tread mills and the like unless you do they have an advantage over your club and in metro areas they were sold within a mile apart.
This is just a few of the reasons you should not under any circumstance buy a Curves franchise. There are many more reasons but before you buy one take the franchise agreement to a lawyer and have him check it out for his opinion. I will guarantee you they will advise you not to as it is one of the worst agreements any franchise has and I haven’t heard of any lawyer who would recommend you to sign that agreement. You would be much better off if you bought the equipment off of someone that has closed and started your own women fitness center or talk to the owner of the club you are interested and tell them you want to buy that club but not the curves franchise. Most owners who are trying to sell would gladly jump at the chance to sell you it with out the curves name as it will save them 5,000 dollars in transfer fees if they don’t have to go through curves.
Eilf,
Many owners have refused to pay the closing fee, follow the so called closing procedures and the demand for the remaining advertising and royalty fees. Yes at first Curves did try to take owners to court over all of this but owners counter sued and won so now he has Howie has quit taking them to court and has had to hire a collection firm located in ILL to try to intimidate owners into paying Howie’s demands. No one is intimidated by Howie any more because of all the information that is on the web about his business tactics. You need to read your contract as you maybe under one of the new contracts which is owned by a master franchise in your country. If that is the case it is even more crooked than Howie and you will need to find a lawyer in your area who does franchise law. If that is the case have your lawyer contact the lawyers in the States that have represented owners for advice and how to handle the situation, Make sure you don’t sign anything you receive from them until you contact a lawyer and keep good records of all information you receive from them such as the date , the time, and who you spoke to. Make sure you contact all other curves owners in your area and join forces against CI as you will have strength in numbers if you have to go to court.
unhappy writes “…at first Curves did try to take owners to court over all of this but owners counter sued and won so now he has Howie has quit taking them to court … join forces against CI as you will have strength in numbers if you have to go to court.”
For the reality of the situation, read the comment above from “Closed in ’07 on April 22nd, 2010 5:00 pm”
“So, I’m sitting in downtown Miami waiting to be deposed pondering the lack of justice in our legal system. The only word I can come up with to some up this entire ordeal with my lawsuit against Curves and Howie is ‘UnFingbelieveable’.
How can our Florida lawsuit go from 170 clubs to less than 50 and still shrinking practically overnight?”
Strength in numbers? The truth is that you will pay the lawyers a bunch of money and the best you can hope for is that they’ll let you walk away without paying your closing fee. Wouldn’t it make more sense just to negotiate down the closing fee and walk away without going through the legal ordeal?
To all owners past and present,
Remember there are plenty of lawyers that are taking these cases on a contingency where we don’t have to pay a dime in legal fees and if you need help in finding one let me know and I will put you inn touch with one.
Also keep in mind to just disregard any of the guests posts as they are certainly irrelevant and in all likely hood a Howie plant. By responding to “it’s”post all we do is encourage them and if we ignore them they will in time go to some other board to get their kicks.
“there are plenty of lawyers that are taking these cases on a contingency where we don’t have to pay a dime in legal fees”
Really? Name three.
Why would a legitimate lawyer go up against Curves on contingency? Why would they spend their time on a longshot gamble at getting some skimpy settlement rather than billing their hours and getting paid by actual clients? Because a single Curves settlement is going to be such a windfall? Please…
In the FL lawsuit the 170 plaintiffs have shrunk to just 50. Did those attorneys work on total contingency? Do you think 120 plaintiffs just walked away without paying a cent to their attorneys?
I’m looking forward to your list of lawyers who are willing to go up against the highly paid Curves attorneys on their own dimes. Please post the list so all can benefit.
GREAT NEWS FOR SOME CURVES OWNERS.
Many states have passed statutes which supersede the Curves franchise agreement in relationship with curves including the area of termination and renewal of ones franchise. Also many states have new statues which limit curves ability to restrict owners activity after the franchise agreement has either ended or terminated by closing. Here is a list of those states: Arkansas, California. Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa , Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Nebraska, New Jersey, South Dakota, Virginia, Washington, Wisconsin Montana, Florida, Oklahoma, and North Dakota. Many other states are following suit as there has been so many complaints against curves International and Howie.
If you are from any of the above states and have had or are presently having difficulty with intimidating, unethical, immoral or what you may consider harassing tactics from Curves you may want to contact a lawyer asap. It appears this will open up even more valid lawsuits against curves and Howie.
Julie,
I for one am a fairly “new” owner and would advise strongly against you buying a Curves franchise. If for nothing else, Curves does not have enough to offer women on a long term basis to keep them happy. That is the least of the problems though. Our service fees are fairly high, monthly rates are higher than most although we only offer one type of service as apposed to those offering swiming pools, treadmills, personal trainers, etc., there is NO support. I have not once had someone in my club…all I get is spend more money on advertising, which there is not enough of to even put food on our table at times. My husband is working THREE jobs to keep us afloat and I feel we are probably one of the lucky ones since we are not losing our home, although our credit has gone to pot becuase we cannot afford to pay all our bills. I am waiting for the day our doors will be closed. I would love to find a buyer, but doubt we will be able to although I have been told many times over we have one of the most beautiful Curves facilities located in a fairly new building. It is a sad, sad situation. I wanted this so much and love what I get to do in my Curves, love my ladies dearly and have made some of the best friends from that place, but it will all go down the drain soon….we are sure of it. Please, please think twice about doing this. It is hell on wheels and it drives very fast. You cannot get out of the way once your in it.
Hello unhappy42,
We hear you loud and clear and just hope that Julie listens to the people who have owned clubs and know the truth about Howie and Curves. Once you have been there and lived through the nightmare we have a responsibility to inform other individuals to stay clear and not make the worst decision of their life. I just pray they listen as you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink. Fortunately many unsuspecting individuals have found the site and made the right choice because of all horror stories told about Howie and Curves on this site. Real life experiences from owners certainly are telling about whether or not curves is a good investment. Unfortunately we always have a few of the commentators who try to stick up for Howie for what ever reason and as we have said before it’s just best not to even respond to their uninformed, stupid and idiotic posts. As you can tell when we do this it infuriates them and makes us all laugh. So to them we all say BLAH, BLAH, BLAH
Have a great weekend unhappy42 and God Bless you and your family
Question for the group: What are the legal fees that you’ve been quoted (and/or charged) for help navigating your closing and/or bankruptcy? How about with potentially suing or suing Curves?
Is anyone working with an attorney on a contingency or performance basis?
In the near future we will be starting a new campaign to shed light on the atrocities that are being done to Curves owners by Howie so stay tuned.
By curves owners working together to send a strong message to Howie we are helping to make sure that one million women continue to get stronger.
Julie,
In order to make an informed decision about buying a Curves franchise you really need to listen to what the actual owners are saying about the clubs not what Pro-Howie supporters are spouting on this board. I’m sure you understand that 99% of us here have all been financially hurt by buying into the dream by the con-man Howie and certainly have an obvious agenda but one must question the naysayers agenda and of course that is why we don’t respond to them or there questions. But so you have some actual factual information here are some results of polls that were taken over the last 6 month or so of current owners.
On the question of :
Have you considered selling your Curves? A whopping 90% said yes
If any owners are actually making money? 60 % of owners said no
This question should be a real eye opener to you as well as Howie ……….. Do you plan on renewing your franchise agreement? A whopping 86% said NO
Are you making money from your Curves income? 75% said no
Keep in mind Julie these results are not owners that were closed but current owners with clubs that were still open at the time the polls were taken. Now I’m sure the naysayers are going to try to bash this post as question number 2, If any owners are actually making money and question number 4, Are you making money from your Curves income seem to have different results as one is at 60% and the other is at 75%. With out owing a Curves I’m sure naysayers will have a hard time explaining that but there is a simple explanation but just fun since we all know they read our post let them explain it.
To the naysayers,
Blah, Blah,Blah, No one is responding to your posts ha, ha , ha…………….
Unhappy, you don’t respond, because you can’t answer the questions. I think it’s pretty obvious that you again are exagerrating your stance to make you sound so important.
Show me the statute in IL that was written, I’d like to read it. Also, you keep mentioning more lawsuits against ‘Howie and Curves’. You should already know that Howie was dismissed from the big lawsuit.
It’s actually very easy for your detractors to explain your “results”. Even the best scientific polling is open to interpretation and your results are from hardly scientific polls and are of just one group of owners and with such a low response rate (average from the polls you used is just 85 respondents, with some polls having as few as 58, and only 54 for the November 2006 poll) making them utterly worthless and wholly unreliable. First, for an example of why your “information” is as useless as ever, a poll of the same small owners group that you DIDN’T quote but which is phrased very similarly to the “thought about selling” one is this one on doing 24/7:
June 2009
Have you considered converting your club to a 24×7 OR Extended Hours Club? (With key-card access)
Responses
Choices/Votes/%
No – My Hours are just fine. 42 45
I would like to be an extended hours club. 31 33
I am currently an extended hours club. 2 2
I would like to be a 24×7 club. 15 16
I am currently a 24×7 club. 2 2
If we were to place the same value on this that you put into the other polls, one would believe that 55% of owners have already or are planning on adding key card access to their clubs. This is hardly the case as the actual number is barely in the single digits (if that!). However many have “thought” about it. ANY intelligent business person “thinks” about their options. That brings us to your first “poll” question:
Have you considered selling your Curves?
June 2009
Choices/Votes/%
No Way! 8 7
I have thought about it occasionally. 51 50
Yes! I am going to sell soon. 14 13
I’ve been trying to sell for a while! 28 27
In the middle of one of the worst economic years in recent history you think it is “telling” that many owners “thought” about selling? I think you’d be hard pressed to find ANY business owner who WASN’T thinking about getting out of business last summer (or this summer for that matter)!
Aug 2009
Choices/Votes/%
Do you plan on renewing your franchise agreement?
Yes 10 13
No 62 86
Again, third quarter of the worst year for pretty much everyone I know in ANY business, and you bet, many, like me, have decided that despite the fact that we have a profitable club, that we will NOT be renewing. Why not? Because, after over 9 years, I’m tired of THIS business and am ready to move on to something new or develop some of my OTHER business interests further. That says more about me than about this business. BTW, for most owners who don’t have any business sense, they won’t have a choice to renew since they will have lost their business long before then. Mostly because they are unwilling to make the tough choices and run their business like a business.
November 2009
Choices/Votes/%
losing money, more than $500 per month 24 35
losing money, less than $500 per month 7 10
breaking even 14 21
making a little profit, less than $5000 per month 18 26
making sufficient profit, more than $5000 per month 5 7
July 2009
Choices/Votes/%
Losing money. More than $500 per month. 12 20
Losing money. Less than $500 per month. 9 15
Breaking even. 15 25
Making a little profit. Less than $ 5000 per month. 18 31
Making sufficient profit. More than $5000 per month. 4 6
April 2009
Choices/Votes/%
Profit 31 24
Loss 51 39
Even 39 30
Closing 8 6
November 2006
Choices/Votes/%
Losing money. More than $500 per month. 24 35
Losing money. Less than $500 per month. 7 10
Breaking even. 14 20
Making a little profit. Less than $ 5000 per month. 18 26
Making sufficient profit. More than $5000 per month. 5 7
In April 45% were losing money. In July, 35%. In November, 45% again. And back in November 2006, which by all accounts was a “good year”, 45% there too. Hmmm… maybe these “polls” aren’t worth all that much when trying “to make an informed decision” after all, huh?
Don’t forget, as most here will admit – most of these re-sales WAY overpaid for their business. If you go into a Curves with little or no debt (easily done now as many are selling at bargain basement prices), keep your overheads low (rent being the worst for most but easy to get on the cheap right now since the commercial real-estate market is so horrible), keep your payroll down (with double digit unemployment, people are BEGGING to work) you can handily make a profit. THAT is all true for any business.
But all “unhappy” will hear is “blah blah blah blah blah”. Very sad for unhappy.
If you want to feel all warm inside about how badly you’ve done too, and if you will feel better knowing that you are not alone, join the “pity party” and you can listen to him rant about all the people “sticking up for Howie” when in reality we just think this guy is a twit too. But when trying to “make an informed decision” you could listen to him tell you how to fail – he’s closed how many of his clubs? Or maybe, just maybe, start listening to people who are still in business making money. Blah blah blah LOL
Just to add to the mayhem here, I paid my law firm in Miami $3500.00 up front in 2006 then around $600.00 per year for additional expenses. That fee doesn’t include $2500.00 for an expert financial witness that you will need should you decide to continue and not walkaway. Nor did it include plane flights and car rentals to Waco for mediation, the same to arrive in Miami to be deposed. If I had continued this I would have had to come up with the money to fly and stay in Texas for a trail. A plaintiff could end up spending $10,000.00 easily and that’s not including lost wages from taking time off from work. Still, it was a deal considering CI was counter suing me for lost royalties and advertising fees.
On a lighter note: I have two Purple neon Curves Raceway signs I’ll give anyone for free, just come get them. A $5,000.00 value. hahaha
What can I do to get them to take my franchise away from me? I see breaking the rules as the only answer, as I will not pawn this sink-hole off on someone else.
I’ll do 24/7. I’ll sell Weight Watchers. I’ll add a treadmill! If they take it away…..do you still pay a penalty? Seriously……I’m exhasted exahsted exhausted……TIRED!
endofmyropeisanoose,
send an emil to adim at at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and he will forward it me with your phone number and will get the rope off your neck
But Closed, if you listen to unhappy, you would’ve easily won the counter-suit, so why settle?
End of my rope,
Here is my advice, take it for what it is worth. If I could go back to say 2005 when I knew member attrition was a business model that CI had no answer except playing silly circuit games I would have done the following. Here is my hind-sight, shoulda, coulda, woulda’s.
Stop buying anything from Ideas in Action. Stop giving your members anything except a smile and a welcome to Curves. Save every dime you can. Let go as many employees as possible. Put in tread mills, elliptical and spinning bikes. Add 2 lb. hand weights next to the running squares. Get 3lb exercise balls and have a ball toss. Do anything to Re-invent your Curves, offer an after hour Pilate s or yoga class.
When CI contacts you about it, tell them you have no idea what they are talking about, tell them to have a blessed day and hang up.
Good luck to you.
We had hand weights, balls, medicine balls, hoola hoops, stretch and strengthen classes and several years ago, when one of the Area Reps came to visit (I wasn’t there, and she never came back),she told my manager “you gotta do what you gotta do to stay in business.” They knew these businesses were going down hill. We, at one point, had 1500 members, but when we closed last year, we had about 150. We couldn’t give the place away. We also had lost members when Howie decided that his religious believes (not giving $$ to the Koman foundation, or anyone else who supported a pro-choice mnovement) was more important then US losing members. And, I don’t believe for a moment, that he’s religious. I think it’s a big front to make him look like a good guy!
And…..by the way, we had our Debbie Rose come to a meeting set up for all the local franchisses several years ago. We asked for her help because all of our businesses were failing. One member asked “who made money last year, raise your hands.” And guess how many hands were up?? —NONE When we tried to talk with her about our difficulties,her response was “I only want to hear positive things.” I guess that was the best CI could offer in the way of help and support. I think our contract said they were suppose to support us?????
If Curves doesn’t fullfill their obligations under the contract then the franchisee has a right to terminate it, right?
No Elif, you cannot terminate your contract. All you can do is sue CI for fraud. Yes they lied. Look over your Franchise Agreement, See all the places you signed and initialed? Read them over and try to find where in that agreement CI says they are responsible for anything. The wording is specifically designed to make you liable for all and hold CI innocent in the event you are a lousy business person. Look we all got screwed, and we are all just as guilty for not questioning the agreements we were signing. During depositions, CI attorney asked me….Did you hire an attorney to review your UFOC and Franchise Agreement? Well um no. Did you have anyone review these documents? My financial advisor. And what did he advise? He said it was pretty one sided but par for the course. In the end it was my decision to sign it. The news is grim but these are the facts and Texas state law sides with CI. There was a reason they had us all sign those documents at club camp in Waco.
Hi Closed ’07,
I wonder if CFW uses the same contract overseas. In the one I signed, it clearly states that the franchisee has a right to terminate the agreement if Curves commits breach of contract. And Breach of Contract is defined by CFW failing to fullfill certain provisions (these provisions are listed in the agreement) I wonder if the agreements are drafted differently in the US and overseas? But then again why would they be?
Elif and closed in o7,
First closed in 07 Elif contract is totally different than the contract you or I signed as it appears when he signed his contract it was with a master franchisor that had bought the rights to resale curves franchises from curves. Howie went this route when he realized that clubs were closing all over the US and that lawsuits were being filed by the hundreds against him including the group action lawsuit. His contract does give him some outs but it does require arbitration in England and any legal fight has to faught in Englands courts not the courts in Waco TX. If you will read your contract you have the right to mediation before a lawsuit can be filed here in the US. So Elif the best advice we can offer you is to contact a lawyer who practies law in England..
Elif your contract is similar to ours but diffenrent is significant ways one of wich does give your the right to terminate your contract if you can prove that the master franchisor (who appears to have bought the rights from a new corporation out of Las Vegas Nv. called CFW group) has broken any of section 7A in your contract. Unfortunatly Elif you must fight this in the courts in England or Wales accouding to your contract and must first go to arbitration there in fornt of a arbatrator who has at least 5 years in franchise law.
There you go Elif, I stand corrected. Most Lawyers here, I don’t know about across the pond, but most should offer a free consultation. It wouldn’t hurt to have one read over your contract and at least point you in the right direction.
All,
I recently spoke with Robert and he gave me great advice with my club that recently closed in Virginia.
Thanks Robert you gave me a new outlook.
BTW Kiss my ass C/I
Mitch
better than coming all the way to Texas, I’d say : )
I am indeed consulting a British lawyer who also happens to be a good family friend.
I didn’t realise my agreement was with a master franchiser. I spoke to the guys in Waco Texas when I was initially interested in the business about 2 years ago and I thought they were the ones who signed the agreement with me.
I am a she by the way : )
Best
Elif,
It appears your contract is with a new corporation out of Nevada called the CFW group which is different than the contracts signed in the US. If it’s not a master franchise it was just before Howie started selling them but it appears to be a Curves franchise sold through the CFW group. It will be interesting what your lawyer has to say. Make sure the lawyer has franchise experience as it is very important that they know franchise law. If your lawyer wants to talk to the lawyers in the states let me know and I will provide you with the contact information.
I purchased a resale in 11/07. I closed 4/16/10. Small town, bad economy, getting in mostly retirees as younger gals felt it didn’t challenge them enough, competition with a 24/7 gym. You pick it. My story is short – CI took 2.5 years of my life, I am $20,000 in debt (not nearly as much as some, but that’s huge for me), and 20 lbs. overweight from the stress. My equipment was donated to a women’s correctional facility. I don’t want to damage a fellow area Curves (and yes there are still some open close to me), so I’ve tried to do things right. I’m sure CI won’t care – they will put me in the same pile as everyone else and go after me for the remaining 2.5 years. Beat me more, please. How is everyone handling their CC debt? Any gems of thought there? I’m just sick to death of worrying when the next shoe will fall. Truly wish this were all a dream….
Has anyone in Australia closed or tried to close a Curves? How did you do it? What did it cost? Did you have a 10 year agreement?
■wishiweredreaming
What debt? You do not owe curves anything and it is illegal for them to try to collect future royalties or add fees once you have closed. They will however try to intimidate you into paying just don’t do it.
George,
Yes many have closed in Australia. To find out how and what to expect send an email to to adim at at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and he will forward it to me. I will contact you asap.
‘You do not owe curves anything and it is illegal for them to try to collect future royalties or add fees once you have closed. They will however try to intimidate you into paying just don’t do it’
If them asking for future royalties and ad fees is illegal, then why didn’t the Curves counter-suit get tossed out of court. I believe that ‘Closed in 07’ stated that they thought they made a good settlement because Curves was asking for future royalties and ad fees.
By the way, BMM has a story about a LaQuinta hotel that had to pay the franchisors over $100k in liquidated damages (but then again Unhappy says they are illegal). Oh and the liquidated damages clause was upheld on appeal.
Well, Well, Well, Howie lost again in court with Go Figure on both of his motions. One for dismissal and one for change of venue. Both were denied by the judge. Can you immaginve how much Howie has had to spend on legal feees alone this year? If you do the research on pacer you will find that Howie never uses the same lawyer but instead hires a different lawyer for each law suit. We have heard that its because he never pays the lawyer for the full bill and that Howie is running out of lawyers who will represent him in TX.
Your right Unhappy, he’s using a different attorney, BUT they are from the same law firm (Haynes & Boone), so what’s wrong with that?
You try to make a huge deal out of the smallest things. He’s attorneys in the franchise case specialize in franchising law, the case against Go Figure isn’t about franchising.
I guess if you have a tax question that you have that your accountant can’t answer but their their partner can (who is more versed in taxes), then you would consider it a big deal too.
You really should check your facts more, or maybe not, because you keep hurting your credibility.
American Dream, not! It has been more like a nightmare. My wife and I got into Curves in 2003. Today we are bankrupt and our house is in foreclosure. I remember at a convention once that Gary was preaching about not sending our customers to collection if they don’t pay. Because Curves people are “nice people”. Well where did the nice people go? We are in the process of trying to close our last club and we have been told that we will be responsible for future royalties and closing fees. We are bankrupt! Where is the compassion? Is this an isolated case. Unfortuanely, my daughter and sister-in-law(both Curves owners) also had to file bankruptcy.
Have to let you all know, Robert is helping us with a wealth of information regarding our club and our problems. We cannot even pay our rent now due to insufficient funds. Its either rent or our personal loans we took out in order to get into this mess called Curves. We will most likely close our club very soon. Not that we did not try, but what can we do? It is a very hard decision, but our family has to come first and food on the table is a priority for most of us.
Please, please, please….anyone considering buying into Curves, DON’T DO IT. Open your own fitness facility. No franchise fees, advertising fees (what a joke…I might still be able to be open if I could use that money to advertise for myself in my own target market), no restrictions on what I can/cannot do in my club, and I could add things my ladies love such as a tanning bed, a small boutique, a massage therapist…..treadmills, weight training classes, yoga, the list goes on and on. Sad thing is that my facility would handle all of this, but Curves tells me NO, NO, NO. It is not allowed. When will they get a clue as to WHY we keep losing membership? Even I get bored doing the same workout and watching those poor girls go around in a circle all the time. I know if I had just stayed a member, I would definitely still not be there. I wish I could have had the foresight into this before I bought. Lesson definitely learned, but hopefully others can learn from our mistakes. AND yes, I DID make a mistake in buying into this, so I don’t need to hear others try to tell me its my fault. It is so sad how others on this site are so judgemental. Until you are in the person’s shoes/club and know their family life, no one has the right to judge another. EVERYONE’s situation is unique.
I don’t post here often, but after reading JD’s worthless post I decided I had to post.
First off it is apparent he is connected with Curves International in some fashion, but he refuses to admit it. Secondly, I question why he is even posting. As he readily admits he has never owned a curves franchise or business for that matter. He tries to put down owners who have legitimate complaints against Curves and Gary Heavin.
I wish the administration would delete his posts as they did for Carol Cross as he is continuing to stifle the discussion.
I have done the research on the hundreds of lawsuits that have been filed, and unhappy is absolutely correct. Heavin has used different lawyers for almost every lawsuit brought against him. They are not from the same firm as JD tries to insinuate.
I guess we should all follow unhappy advice and not respond or read his worthless posts as he (JD) is just another Wessel like Gary Howard Heavin.
To all owners here looking for help on how to deal with Curves International don’t even pay attention to his posts and send an email to admin.@unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and ask it to be forwarded to unhappy, and I’m sure you will get the correct and valuable advice.
Don,
By the Sea
unhappy42
Thanks for your kind words and it was my pleasure to help you. It is time we all work together to put a stop to Gary Howard Heavin’s intimidating tactics to try to extort more money from owners who have lost so much as a result of his mismanagement of Curves International.
TO All Present and Past Owners of a Curves Franchise
We have all seen the devastation that comes from owning a franchise that is run by a corrupt, unethical, immoral, and crooked owner such as we all believe Howie to be. We have banded together on this site to get the word out about this company so others won’t make the same mistake we all have by falling for the lies, and dishonest treatment by the sociopath, Howie. The number of clubs closing is not only disheartening but frightening when you stop to consider how many people have lost everything including their homes and retirement funds and they continue to close at an alarming rate. it is now time to start a campaign to lobby our government officials to change and strengthen the laws on franchising for the franchisee. I am suggesting that everyone write not only the President but their senator and congressmen as well. If you click on the sites listed below it will take you to where you can send an email to our elected officials and we need to tell them about our experiences we have had with Curves and demand that the franchise laws be changed.
Email via: http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact
[Note: emails are limited to 500 characters, but that is more than enough to make the key points.]
[Note: the WH email page requires a U.S. State and Zip Code to submit.]
Feel free to copy your congressional representatives in the House and Senate.
Here is the sites where you can go to find your Senator and House Representative.
hhps://writerep.house.gov/writerrp/welcome.shtml
http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/senators_cfm.cfm
Sorry the US House of Representatives is as follows:
https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml
“If you do the research on pacer you will find that Howie never uses the same lawyer but instead hires a different lawyer for each law suit.”
“unhappy is absolutely correct. Heavin has used different lawyers for almost every lawsuit brought against him.”
Companies with lots of litigation often spread work out to as many good law firms as possible. Why? Because each of those firms then cannot accept clients who want to sue them because it would be a conflict of interest. They then have to settle for 2nd or 3rd tier attorneys. Spending a few thousand dollars each with multiple firms to keep them from representing future plaintiffs is a smart business move, isn’t it? Something a shrewd, multimillionaire with excellent legal counsel might do, right?
Doesn’t that make more sense than unhappy’s claim that Heavin is so stupid he’s alienating all the lawyers in Texas? Does anyone really believe he’s stupid?
JD should stop posting? Why? Because he actually checks things out and posts facts?
unhappy continues to state his opinions as fact and wants you to believe Heavin is both scheming, crafty AND stupid. You might question his ethics, but how stupid can he be?
You sure you want to make that claim? After all, he got your money…
PS Anyone else find it ironic that unhappy criticizes Curves for deleting comments they disagree with from the internal forums, but unhappy and Don by the sea keep urging the administrator to ban people who disagree with them?
Not surprising, but ironic.