CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story
The American dream of owning your own successful business seems to be going up in smoke for a lot of the Curves Franchise owners. The story you are about to read may seem like a Steven King horror novel but it is a real story that has happened to my wife and I. To all of the past, present and future owners of a Curves franchise please take the time to read the whole story as at the end we explain what we plan to do and how you as an ex or present owner may want to get involved.
My wife and I had owned and operated our own business for over 20 years and had been very successful at doing so. While we were making a great income from our business there was something missing in our life. Neither us felt that we were contributing to society but just taking and we decided to make a major change in our life. That was when we heard about Curves for Women. It was a new franchise that only had 300 or so clubs and for the first time in years we both became excited at the prospect of actually helping people reach their goals. We bought our first club in 1997 located in a city of thirty thousand. From the first day it opened it was more successful than our wildest dreams. Not only were we making excellent money but the personal rewards helping people better their lives was a truly rewarding feeling. I can still remember as if it was yesterday the first time a Dr. of one of our members came in to check out what we were doing as he couldn’t believe the ch
anges his patient had gone through. She had gotten off her high blood medication and had lost over 40 pounds in 4 months. It was truly amazing and over the years we have seen it happen numerous times over and over.
We sold our first club in 2001 and bought two more franchises. My wife became a mentor for Curves International around this time and I was helping to sell franchise for Curves International as so many of are members wanted to own a club. It was at this time that we started to see problems arising with Curves International but we attributed it to the fast growth that Curves was going through. In 2002 we bought two more franchises but this time they were in what was called a metro-area instead of city under thirty thousand in population.
The first problem we encountered with Curves International was in early 2003. Curves sold a franchise that was a corridor of land between one of our franchise’s and the next city 8 miles from our southern boarder. It was obvious to us that the territory didn’t have the necessary population to support a facility and that Curves International was selling any location just out of greed and the fact that there were so many people who wanted a franchise. The people who bought that franchise tried to open up on our border but it had always been an unwritten but followed rule of Curves International that you open in the middle of your territory so that disputes between owners over stealing members from your territory didn’t arise. We immediately filed a complaint with Curves International and they stopped the new owner from opening at that location. Unfortunately for the new owners there were no other commercial locations between the two cities so they were forced into selling that franchise back to Curves International for a loss.
It was also at this time that Curves International started to change personnel. The employee’s who we had a personal relationship with that had started Curves International with Gary Heavin were leaving the company at an alarming rate. Seven employees that were the top management of Curves left or were forced out because of Gary Heavin’s greed. They ended up filling a law suit against Curves which was later settled out of court. It was at this time that Diane Heavin became involved with Curves and a whole new history was being written about how Curves was started. The original Curves member guide which was written by Gary Heavin and June Manley was taken off the market and the new Curves book authored by of course Gary Heavin was on the top 10 of the Times best seller list.. To make sure it was on the Times best seller list all the clubs had to order at least on case. That is when we as owners realized Heavin was a manipulator and not the born again Christian he portrayed to be. It was also at this time that the price to buy a franchise more than doubled in price. This came as quite a surprise as Heavin had always maintained that he would never ever increase his franchise price and he even swore on the bible in front of a group at club camp that he would never break his word on that. Well as we all know he didn’t keep that promise for long, which just shows his greed.
At this point my wife and I became quite concerned and even considered selling our business but other problems arose concerning Curves International that demanded our full attention. In 2004 another Curves location located on our boarder of one of our metro-areas hired two of our employees and stole around 15 members from our club. Both employees had signed the anti covenant not to compete and in our state those agreements are strictly enforced by the courts. We considered going to court but since it was another Curves facility we decided to file a complaint with Curves International. And to let them handle it. What a mistake that was as they did nothing. We transferred the members files but refused to transfer the money for the members dues until such time that Curves International responded to our complaint. We were told by the area director, which was a new position at Curves International, that we were trouble makers and he refused to send any of are clubs the members appreciation bags. Shortly thereafter Curves International resold the corridor of land that had been sold back to them at a loss from the previous owners and they allowed the new owners to open up in nearly the same location that they had refuse the previous owners only a year and a half before. The new owners advertised in our area and ended up getting 10 or 11 members to transfer to their club. Again we held their monthly dues but did transfer the members files. We immediately filed a complaint but again got the same response nothing. It didn’t take long for most of the members who transferred to come back to our club as the other location was small and in a very run down area and to this day that club has not shown a profit and has been sold numerous times over the years for little to nothing.
Then in 2005 the real problems with Curves International started that we are still contending with today. In one of our metro-areas a competitor by the name of Ladies Workout Express opened up right across the street from our location. Unknown to us they had hired our manager and one other employee from that location and when the employee’s left they had stolen off our computer our member files. They ended up stealing over two thirds of our membership with in a week. The employees had signed the covenant not to compete so we immediately hired a lawyer and prepared for a lawsuit. As I stated before in our state that agreement is strictly enforced but it took four months to get it into court. During this time that location was losing so much money that we decided to move the location next to our other territory so that both clubs could stay open. We sent in the required change of location form to Curves International but never heard anything back from them so we went ahead and relocated in late 05. The owners of the Ladies Workout Express eventually went broke because of the lawsuit and the fact that they would end up owing us monetary damages. They filed for bankruptcy to prevent us from collecting any monetary awards in Dec 05 but we did have the satisfaction knowing that we did what was right
In early 06 we were informed by Curves International that because we abandon that location they were terminating all of our franchise agreements. We immediately requested mediation for all of our clubs which is authorized by our franchise agreements with Curves International. We never heard back from them so we hired a lawyer in Waco, TX to represent us. He proceeded to send them a letter requesting the same mediation process and they did respond to him. They sent him letter stating that it was premature to go through the mediation process at that time as they were in the process of researching our reason for moving. Curves International continued to debit our account for the franchise and advertising fees for all the other clubs we owned but stopped talking the fees for the one territory that they stated we abandoned. The lawyer had us send Curves International a check for the fees and a new authorization form for them to deduct it from our account. Neither our lawyer or ourselves ever heard anything back from Curves International so we all assumed that things were back to normal.
In the spring of 07 we made the decision to start selling off all of our clubs and to completely retire. It didn’t take me long to sell the club we owned that wasn’t in a metro-area and I agreed to stay with the new owner’s to help train them how to run the business. We sent all the documentation into Curves International and the sale was completed by January 08. That freed my wife and I up to concentrate on our metro-area clubs and to get them ready for sale. In Feb of 08 we heard that a Curves club was opening in one of our territories within a mile of our current club. We could not understand how Curves International could do such a thing. We again filed a complaint by phone and e-mail to Curves International and several weeks later we were informed by e-mail that they didn’t know what we were talking about. We were told we didn’t own any franchises and hadn’t since we were terminated in 05. That came as quite a shock to my wife and I as our franchise and advertising fee’s had been deducted all along from our checking account and we had just recently sold a club that they were telling us we never owned. We had a local lawyer send a letter to the new owners explaining the situation and that we would be seeking legal recourse against Curves International and depending on the outcome they were opening themselves up to a potential lawsuit. During this time we had bought and paid in full for the Smart Equipment for Curves International and were waiting for the installation which was scheduled for the June 24th. On June 20th , a Friday we received a phone message telling us that the Curves Smart Installation was canceled and that we had to call Curves legal for an explanation. We left messages both e-mail and phone every 30 minutes on Monday June 23rd and finally late in the afternoon we received an e-mail stating that one of there lawyers would be in touch with us before the end of the day, They never sent an e-mail or a phone call as was promised but by mid day the next day they did respond by e-mail. It stated because of the problems with the members transfers, the fact that we abandoned a franchise, and that we had interfered with the opening of the new franchise located in our territory we weren’t approved for the Curves Smart. Yet in late May they had sent all the promotional ad material for the Curves Smart and of course we had gone to a considerable amount of expense for training the employees, advertising and promotion of the Curves Smart equipment. It was at this point that my wife and I decided that drastic action had to be taken against Heavin and Curves International.
While we still love the concept of Curves we feel that because of the deceptive and we believe fraudulent business practices that Heavin has allowed under his management Curves will eventually end up in the toilet so to speak. After spending many hours on the internet we have found that there are many lawsuits against this man and his company. Just read some of the post’s that are on franchisepick.com from owners concerning the new ten thousand fee if your club goes under and closes to the vitamins that were sold in Feb and March by Ideas in Action at a discount to owners without telling them that they would expire at the end of May. The lack of support and communication from Curves International that all of us owners are going through is intolerable. It is impossible for an owner to get through to them on the phone and good luck if you expect a call back in a timely manor. The fact that we as owners pay a lot of money for our advertising fees and have no accounting of where it is spent and a quite frankly we never see many ads in our area.
I have taken the time to do the necessary research to find several good lawyers who handle franchise law who are more than willing to help Curves owners who are having similar problems with Curves. I for one am going to go after Curves International and Gary Heavin in a court of law. These are not class action but group action lawsuit and if you don’t understand the difference contact me and I will explain it to you. There have been over 200 such lawsuit filed against Curves in the last several years and while some have been settled in mediation others are in the process of going to litigation. If you are a past or present Curves owner who has experienced these problems and want satisfaction whether it be monetary or revenge please contact me. We have several options that we can go and I for one am positive we will win as the other lawsuits have been successful so far and have set a precedent for ours. It is time for the owners of Curves franchises either past or present to stand up together and put a stop to Heavins’s ramped destruction of peoples lives just for monetary greed.
Thanks for reading our post and God Bless you all.
ARE YOU AN CURVES FRANCHISE OWNER OR FORMER CURVES FRANCHISEE?
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CURVES FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITY?
PLEASE SHARE A COMMENT BELOW.
Don, obviously you don’t like someone posting that has a different opinion/outlook than you or likes to bring out different ideas. Here’s the problem that most of these people on here have, they don’t think about all sides. There are different ideas out there than what you and Unhappy bring out, and they should be able to decide on their own what they want to believe and maybe what they want to get more information on.
Look most people on here didn’t think they would fail as a franchisee, and didn’t have an exit plan in place, thereby putting their retirements/homes at stake. But for example, if CI wins the counterclaims in court that asks for liquidated damages, then all this advice that Unhappy may be giving them about not paying the funds may be for nothing. These people may think that CI is out of their lives if they don’t hear from them in a year, but they could also get served a lawsuit the next day and be in it once again.
Unhappy makes the point that the Go Figure case motions aren’t going CI’s way and then makes mention that they are using different law firms, I looked it up and the main franchisee lawsuit and the Go Figure lawsuit are being represented by the same firm (look it up). But again, different types of lawsuits, the franchisees wouldn’t be hiring Zarco to represent them in a lawsuit on that related to personal injury, would they?
I’ll continue to post here, I’ve been posting on this website since it pretty much started.
Want a Curves for $500? McCord has two in its “list by owner” site:
Amenia, Pine Plains, northeast NY, $500.00
Hope Mills/Grays Creek NC $500.00 3471 North Main
Hello Wipeout,
Gee those two clubs sound like steal and I’m sure the loony tune or his side kick will go jump at the chance to own such a reputable business. Of course it will cost them 5,000 dollars in transfer fess and the previous owner will still be on the hook for at least one to two years for the franchise and advertising fees.
What the heck according to them they make it sound as if it’s still a growing business expanding leaps and bounds with a brilliant man like Howie behind the wheel. Of course all the past and present owners know better as we have had to deal with this immoral, unethical, sociopath, no integrity type of leader for years. While I take no relish in the fact that so many clubs have closed I am looking forward to the time Howie will be in court. He can go for all the delays he can but we all know eventually he will go to trial unless he offers huge settlements first. Rumor has it that Howie is trying to sell but his greed put a stop to the negotiations with Weight Watchers and as we all know they have even filed a lawsuit against Curves and Howie. When Curves goes under maybe Howie can change his name again but this time to Greedy Heavin
After many years of working my club it’s almost over. Honestly I can hardly wait. I have worked so hard for so long trying to do everything the “Curves Way” Trying to keep costs down, I even moved my club a few years ago to a cheaper place. It has been a struggle since the beginning . In addition to this Club, my parents were multi-unit owners…and all of their first club did great and was the last to close…but Curves opened them all up so fast and allowed so many of them so close together…it was outrageous, as soon as we signed agreements on the clubs, it was as if we had to start fighting them to not open up clubs near us. And they proceeded to tell us that it wouldn’t affect us. I remember being at club camp and them telling us, that another gym could co-exist next to us and not effect us…yeah right! At every turn Curves was telling us to give away the farm…don’t try to collect, give tons of free t-shirts…it just doesn’t work. Now after 7 years of either managing or owning a club, it’s almost over. What do I have to show for it? Well, my parents lost everything. Went bankrupt. They lost their house. My father had a mental breakdown and left my mom on the doorstep of their golden years with NOTHING. My siblings and I have lost a father, who lost his faith and has run away in search of “himself” or a truer faith. It’s a mess. Thank you Curves for changing our life. My husband and thankfully only lost $50K of our own money, but are now facing owing $50K and then some if you count what is left on the lease…and whatever Curves comes after us for…but our marriage, and family, thank God are still intact….as well as our sanity. After we sent our closing letter out to our membership and we decided to close, one of my members tried to get me to sell to them…well…this is what I told her and her husband: “I wouldn’t give this club away to my worst enemy.” I never could have imagined what pain and heartache could come on account of having had driven down this road. And it’s a shame, because it really was a place of encouragement and hope for women. I’m sure a little more pain and discomfort will be ahead for us after the club actually closes….The main heartache of trying to keep a dying thing alive will be over with and we can start to move forward.
■gladitsalmostover,
Thank you for sharing your story . Like so many other’s who have posted it is so sad that this has happened to such great people but with your positive attitude I’m sure you will come through it OK. If there is anything we can help you with don’t hesitate to call or email me.
God Bless you and your family
Unhappy
There goes another one……http://thetimes-tribune.com/news/business/economy-new-competitor-taking-toll-on-area-fitness-businesses-1.793133
I just went to the link and read the article. What a shame and what a bunch of crap from Curves Internationals employee who is quoted in the article. At the end of the article the author or writer leaves their email address to comment about the article. Curves owners not only need to read the article but need to send an email to the writer asking them to do a news story on Curves telling the real truth of what is happening and why all the clubs are closing. Curves Owners it is time we get the real truth out and here is a chance to do just that by sending an email to the author of the news story. Please do so at once!!!!!!!
Thanks fitdute for the post and link.
I also need to thank Robert for all his kind words and help. I agree with Don why is JD on this site if he is not or has not been an owner. As I get ready to close not one of my members blames me. One of the ladies who’s husband is the local minister said that there is no way Howie can call himself a Christian.
Thank you all for helping me get through the last year!
Northestgal
Sad story. Seems there’s too much competition for too few members. Other clubs are struggling too but Curves has the added problem of only catering to half the population and half the market.
Reading through these comments it seems like everyone wants to blame company, and maybe the complaints are justified. But it’s kind of besides the point, isn’t it? The big problem is that your members are not getting results for whatever reason. If they were, they’d still be members, right? If CI and the founder were caring and all touchy feely like you want, these clubs would still be closing because not enough women got real results from your Curves clubs.
“I agree with Don why is JD on this site if he is not or has not been an owner.”
Yes, JD has no business posting on this internal Curves owners forum! Let him go find an open public discussion site to spew his well-reasoned opinions. Wait… this IS an open discussion site?
“One of the ladies who’s husband is the local minister said that there is no way Howie can call himself a Christian.”
Well, that decides it then! The Lord saith that the wives of local ministers have the final say when it comes to eternal salvation!
Thanks, as always, for a good chuckle.
■she’s not that into you
You are totally wrong and obviously don’t know squat about the Curves workout or curves. The program works for 99 % of the members that come in at least 3 times a week. The majority of owners will stand behind me on that as we have all seen the results. The retention of members from year to year is higher in Curves than the majority of health clubs or industry standards. Advertising is the key to all health and fitness clubs and from 95 to 03 the air waves were saturated with wonderful adds but since than no national advertising has done. All owners pay into the fund but it has been controlled by ” Howie the sociopath” . In 2008 over 30 million dollars were collected and not one dime spend in productive adds to get new members in to the clubs. Tell us Howie where did the money go to you sociopath p—k??????? This is just one of the many reason owners blame Howie for the downfall of curves but since you aren’t an owner you wouldn’t know nor do I want to waste my time trying to explain it to you as all you want to do is argue and blame owners. We continue to try to open your eyes but you keep putting your big foot in your mouth without knowing the facts.
Breaking News for Curves Owners
This important news worthy story has just recently been verified and is not a rumor . Our beloved Cassie Findley is no longer associated with Curves International. Cassie, as all owners know has been one of the last respected, honorable, ethical, moral and decent individuals in the top tier management of Curves International. Owners must question if this is the final blow that could bring Howie to his knees? Without her leadership on many issues Curves is left to blow in the wind with more dishonesty, unethical behavior, lack of integrity, and corrupt ways of the sociopath Howie. The million dollar question is will Cassie be the next one to file a lawsuit against Howie and if so for how much? Stay tuned as we will keep you informed!!!!!!!
Dearest…..She is not that into you
MAYBE you should visit some of these Curves who ARE still open. I was only an owner for a year and I saw outstanding results from previous members and new ones that came in my doors. My problem is with CI. Had the allowed me to use that advertising fee to advertise (REALLY ADVERTISE) in my target market area, I believe we could have survived, BUT due to no funds…I finally had to close my doors. I still had 178 members, many still coming in my doors, but it was just not enough. I did everything I could think of to stay open, even trying things such as lunch clubs and the like. It does not always work. It is a shame many of you who judge here don’t go into most of these Curves (yes travel if you have to) and meet the owners. Many of these women and men are sinking their retirement money into their clubs in order to stay open because they love the women they are helping. I have seen so many of my senior members join, hardly able to walk, yet a few months later they are moving around the circuit with ease. My own mother is one of them. She has had knee problems for years, yet a few months after she joined Curves she was moving again. Please don’t judge until you know what you are talking about.
Also, to let everyone know, I did have to offcially close my Curves this week. I’m heartbroken, but have to thank unhappy for leading us in the direction we need to go. I know this for certain due to talking with other owners who have been burned by CI for having done things they asked and finding later that they SHOULD NOT have done. Such as….sending equipment CI demands they send once their Curves close. One poor owner sent all her equipment to CI yet found out later the company she was leasing from told her it was illegal for CI to ask this of her. Now, since CI has her equipment, she owes the leasing company thousands. The lady has lost her home for goodness sake! Had she returned the equipment to the leasing company she would owe nothing, but CI bullied her into sending. Through owners we have heard that CI takes this equipment and calls it ‘refurbished’ and is reselling it to other owners for a pretty penny. That is wrong when most of this was purchased outright by the owners. All they were paying for was a monthly maintenance fee which was crap. We found we were better able to fix our own problems rather than call for help on most accounts.
I just hope those out there still struggling will not give in. If they do, CI will win and for what? As someone said before, they are a company that says they empower women, but they definitely kick the women (and men) to the curb who are trying to live out their motto by owning their company.
unhappy42
Very well said in both of the two above posts. Thank you for sharing your story and thoughts and you are certainly in our prayer’s.
CURVES ZUMBA CLASSES AND HOWIE’S GREED
One of the many complaints that Curves owners have expressed on this board is that under the leadership of Howie all revenue streams are built to help Curves International and not the franchise. Below is just another prime example of this and all Curves owners should not only be concerned but up in arms once they read this breaking story.
Many owners have tried to think out side the box in order to save their clubs from closing. only to find that Howie steps in and prevents them from doing so. Howie has done this time and time again by either threatening to terminate their franchise agreement or taking over the revenue stream so that Curves International ends up making the money not the individual franchise. Examples of this would be the grocery coupons program which was at first was a very successful program until Howie got involved and destroyed the whole program . Most owners are aware of the program and the disaster that resulted when CII got involved and tried to force the owner who initially started the program out. Howie saw that she was making money from the program off of other owners and Howie wanted that money for himself. As a result the owner who started the program ended up having to close her club and went into considerable debt all as a result of Howie’s involvement and shady dealing with the coupon program. Another prime example of this is the out of the box thinking on the 24/7 clubs. Just because Howie didn’t come up with it he was totally against it and even lied to the owners about it’s feasibility because it would raise the cost of the owners liability insurance. That was proven to be a lie, as all owners should be aware of ,so than Howie sent threatening letters to 24/7 owners stating that if they didn’t stop the owners franchise agreement could be terminated. Well we all know what happened with that. Now Howie has done it again.
Owners being desperate for added revenue streams, thinking out side the box came up with a brilliant idea. They started giving Zumba classes, the Latin inspired easy to follow dance classes to spice up the Curves workouts. It was a tremendous success and many of the clubs on the brink of closing started to see their membership increase as a result of them offering the Zumba classes. Once again Howie became enraged that that clubs were doing it and directed the area directors to put a stop to the clubs that were offering the classes or face termination. Well guess what folks? Now Heavin is working with Zumba Fitness and is considering offering it in all the clubs and is even test marketing it in certain clubs in Texas. But here is the catch 22. Do any owners really believe that Howie will offer this to the franchise for free? Of course not, Howie is working on a plan which more than likely will be offered at convention this year and the big question is how much is Howie going to ask for in money or fees from the clubs for allowing franchisee to give Zumba classes. Just another example of Howie’s greed!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Owners came up with the idea of Zumba classes and “Now Heavin is working with Zumba Fitness and is considering offering it in all the clubs and is even test marketing it in certain clubs in Texas”
There’s nothing insidious about that. In fact, that’s what’s made McDonald’s successful. Every new idea that worked were franchisee ideas. Corporate evaluates, tests and rolls the best out to the system. Sounds like CI is doing this right. kudos CI! Good job, Gary!
” all revenue streams are built to help Curves International ”
How evil! Curves owns the trademark these clubs operate under. They’ve got the obligation and right to regulate what’s marketed under the Curves name, right?
unhappy thinks that each individual franchisee should be able to change the entire concept if it raises sales or even if it saves their individual club. Why not sell costume jewelry? Add a drive thu window and sell smoothies & coffee? What if there’s no good hot dog place in town? can a franchisee add a hot dog cart outside if it will save their business?
Franchisees bought the right to operate a staffed 30 minute circuit club for women, not a self serve 24 hour exercise room. If you wanted absolute freedom you shoulda opened Unhappy Fitness and done whatever you wanted. But what unhappy is complaining about is really against the restrictions of any franchise not specifically curves.
After checking out the Web site for CURVES owners and mangers on Yahoo…
I downloaded the papers about closing from CI
We bought the machines…smart…cyclinders…etc… Now they want everything back. They even state” pads can either be destroyed or donated ONLY
to another CURVES….ship cylinders to ES at our cost…
Has everyone done this?
just wondering what the aftermath would be if you did not follow what they said!!
I understand about getting rid of machine and not having some one else buy and open under a different name…KURVES?…
Any input would be helpful…as we are getting ready to close .
I wondering if Howie will be the last one to shut the lights off…
Before we were “gone,” we’d have our members (only) sell their jewelry, workout T-shirts, bras, etc. We also had them sell their “goods” around the holidays, Valentine’s Day, Mother’s Day, etc. and the members loved it. We also had stretch and strengthen classes that the members loved. It was a good way to keep the members interested and connected. Why should CI have a problem with trying to keep your members interested — anyway you can; CI certainly did nothing to help this. Even when the cheaper clubs opened close to us, our members wanted to stay with Curves, but we went from 900 members to less than 150. We had members quit because of Gary’s stand on abortion; we refused to buy his book (when he wanted his book to be on the best seller’s list) because we could buy it cheaper locally. And don’t you feel sorry for the 250 clubs he’s trying to open in India. I wish there was a way we could warn them about this infidel.
Guest,
How dare you even try to compare Heavin’s (who many curves owners feel is a sociopath) Curves business to the outstanding franchise, McDonalds. McDonalds is a great successful franchise that has been in business for over 40 years where as Curves is a one of the worst franchise business that is on the market today. Curves as everyone knows on this and many other boards has been run into the ground because of this person, Heavin, and you want to give Heavin, kudos. Your are obvious deranged, out of your mind and or on drugs. 98 % of the current owners all feel the the same about this sociopath and have all expressed their feelings not only here on this site but on the curves owners site as well.
Kudos to Gary my ass he needs a hard kick in the ass right out the door. Without Heavin at the helm Curves clubs would be doing fine. It is time for him to go before all the Curves clubs that have had or have to close as a result of his mismanagement and unethical behavior.
Don
by the sea
Yet another fine example of why so many owners here have lost their business:
“Before we were “gone,” we’d have our members (only) sell their jewelry, workout T-shirts, bras, etc. We also had them sell their “goods” around the holidays, Valentine’s Day, Mother’s Day, etc.”
You had your members selling all this stuff and more in your business? After buying all that junk from someone else IN YOUR BUSINESS, how much did they have left to spend on YOUR stuff? No wonder you’re “gone”. What kind of business guru told you to let someone else sell something at your place of business that you didn’t get a slice of? Gary may be an “infidel”, I don’t know and don’t care, but making stupid mistakes like that shows us that you have no business running a business.
“How dare you even try to compare Heavin’s (who many curves owners feel is a sociopath) Curves business to the outstanding franchise, McDonalds.”
Don by the sea: unhappy criticizes Curves for testing a franchisee idea prior to rolling it out to the entire franchise. That’s what McDonald’s does and it’s a successful practice. That’s just the facts.
“Without Heavin at the helm Curves clubs would be doing fine.”
And you say I’m deranged or on drugs? You can’t be serious.
“You had your members selling all this stuff and more in your business?… No wonder you’re “gone”.”
Thank you, guest. I agree. That’s the reason franchisees don’t get to make their own calls. Does she seriously think her members loved working out in a flea market and getting a sales pitch from some chick selling bras out of her workout bag?
Again, I’M deranged?
I’m sorry to have to say this but Guest you are an idiot! I have read your remarks over the last few days and you really sound like you have no clue as to what you are talking about. My question to you is this… Have you ever owned a Curves or any business? I am a Curves owner and I am going to have to close my doors. I have spent thousand of dollars trying to make this a succes like my other two business. Yes I own two other business, have for many years and they are successful so I do know how to run a business. I am one of those owners that did everything the Curves way. I sold only their product, had only their equipment. Tried the BR’s, did my extra advertising because I got nothing from CI. My monthly advertising fee did nothing for me. What CI and Howie is doing to me thru this closing process is ridiculous. I should have done extra things that were not Curves endorsed. I should have but I did not. I did it the Curves way stupid me biggest mistake I made. Unless you have owned a Curves you have no right to criticize anyone for what they did or did not do. Why are you even making comments on this site. You are on here alot so perhaps you need to get a life or redirect that anger you have towards something more productive.
Corolyn,,
It’s unfortunate that people like the one you mention in the above post even post on this site as it is obvious to all of us that they are only here to antagonize owners and are probably associated with Howie. It is a fee site but if they continue as others have eventually they wear out their welcome and are thrown off as many others have been. We have found that if we just ignore them it gets them mad and than they leave as all they try to do is bate you into a discussion which they know nothing about. it is a shame that individuals in our society are so lonely for attention that they have to disrupt a site which they don’t belong and and have absolutely noting of merit to add to the conversation. A lot of times they even try to ask particular posters a question just to get you to answer them and than they try to steer the discussion away from what really maters which of course is to provide curves owners information on how to deal with the crooked, unethical, immoral and sociopath ways that Howie is trying to use to take more advantage of owners. But in either case thank you for posting.
‘ It is a fee site but if they continue as others have eventually they wear out their welcome and are thrown off as many others have been.’
How many people have been thrown off this site Unhappy? You state ‘many’, please elaborate…Carol Cross is the only person that seems to have had her comments moved. Is one person many, or are you over stating your ‘facts’ again?
You think that these people will leave, but the funny thing is that these same people seem to make pretty good points. You ignore them, because you don’t have an answer to them.
So lonely for attention are we? Aren’t you the same person that on franchisepundit called a person that might have bought a store/resale a ‘sucker’?:
unhappy says:
April 2, 2009 at 6:37 pm
well hopefully you didn’t buy a franchise but if you did HOW DO YOU LIKE IT NOW SUCCER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! go to unhappyfranchisee.com and see the real story about curves and all the hundreds upon hundreds of law suit for fraud against howie and curves international
Is what you stated a ‘Christian’ statement? I bet the poster whose member’s husband is a pastor wouldn’t think the above statement is Christian.
I don’t expect you to comment, because I don’t really think you have an answer for that post, which is hypocritical of what you’ve stated before.
I wanted to know how can the $10,000 termination fee be legal to charge if it is not written in our contract. I signed Nov. 2007 before the fee came out. According from what I was reading it wasn’t until Feb. 1 2008 that they started the fee. And if you negotiate the fee down are they still coming after their royalties?
Many owners are hearing through the Curves grape vine that Diversified Health and Fitness is in negotiations to buy Curves International., It appears that when fitness chains that are in decline or even on their death beds, Diversified comes in and buys up the failed fitness chain. Just another sign that Curves is on the way out and is certainly in decline. Eighty to one hundred clubs a month are closing so Diversified better move quick before they are all gone..
Such a shame and all related to Howie’s corrupt, immoral, unethical and sociopathic business behavior. With all the law suits out against Howie he may only have two options. One bankruptcy or sell to a company like Diversified.
As a past or present owner wich do you think Howie should do????
Heavin went to jail over nonpayment of child support after his first fitness franchises failed. At the pace Curves is collapsing, I have a feeling he’s afraid of going BACK to jail, this time for a longer stay.
The Curves management team seems to be leaving Howie at a ever increasing rate and it reminds me rats trying to get off a sinking boat. Of course the latest to leave was Cassie Findley and the question of the day is who will be next. Most owners are hoping that Howie steps down and the majority of owners would love to give him a kick in the you know what before he leaves. It is so sad that one man can bring down what at one time was such a great business helping so many women around the world.
By curves owners working together to send a strong message to Howiet that it is time he left we are helping to make sure that one million women continue to get stronger.
Those who agree, overall, with unhappy’s opinion of CI and Heavin must get frustrated with the way he continually hurts his own credibility by stating opinions as facts, starting and stretching rumors, and making assertions he refuses to back up with evidence. Those who claim to be thankful for his guidance should do him a favor & tell him to can it.
For instance, he implies that “Diversified Health and Fitness is in negotiations to buy Curves International.” Is there a shred of evidence that this is true?
unhappy claims that many commenters “wear out their welcome and are thrown off as many others have been” I’ve only seen ONE commenter have comments moved and she was someone kicked off most franchise sites. Can unhappy name even 3 people kicked off the site?
“If you do the research on pacer you will find that Howie never uses the same lawyer but instead hires a different lawyer for each law suit.” unhappy claims CI switches attorneys and doesn’t pay them when his example, as jd proved, was actually a different lawyer with the same firm. So supporting data – like lawsuits – supporting nonpayment of lawyers.
““there are plenty of lawyers that are taking these cases on a contingency where we don’t have to pay a dime in legal fees” Still waiting for this list of 3 willing to work on contingency.
“The Curves management team seems to be leaving Howie at a ever increasing rate..” One person left left the company and he says rats are jumping from a sinking ship. One.
“Eighty to one hundred clubs a month are closing ” Stated as fact, but where does this number come from? Can you give a list of 80 – 100 that closed last month?
unhappy claims everything from selling Master franchises to a single employee leaving is proof Curves is about to fall. Those who have been helped by unhappy should help him by telling him to stop putting his foot in his mouth and looking like a clown.
Thanks to all who participate in this discussion, and who have made it the most heavily-commented, informative and certainly contentious on UnhappyFranchisee.com. While I try to intervene as little as possible in the discussions, there are a few issues I wanted to address/clarify.
Banning commenters: In the past 2 years (spanning 300 posts & 4617 published comments), there are only 2 commenters who lost commenting privileges. Neither time was it for the nature of their opinions, but because of repetitious and disruptive comments that were posted regardless of context and that derailed conversations. Both times came after multiple warnings and 2nd, 3rd chances. This is an open forum where all opinions are welcome and encouraged. You can get banned, but you’ve got to work very hard at it.
Disagree without being disagreeable: If you want your opinion read by the most people possible, you should thank your “opponents.” 2-sided debate spurs more comments resulting in higher search engine ranking, increased traffic and a more interesting thread. Discouraging those with alternative viewpoints from participating is counter to the philosophy and best interest of the site.
Ad Hominem attacks: Please try to attack the content of the arguments, and not the commenter or the commenter’s credibility. People are coming here looking for real information and perspectives and personal feuds are boring to everyone but the feuders.
Invitation to Curves International: All companies discussed here are invited to provide clarifications, corrections, rebuttals, statements or and/opinions and to have them published here without editing or editorial comment. You may contact us at unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com.
Again, thanks to all who visit, comment, read and visit our advertisers. Thanks to you all, people can see both sides and draw their own conclusions.
To Admin,
Thank you for addressing and clarifying the guidelines of the posts on this site. It should put a stop to the Ad Hominid attacks that several posters continue to post. It has been my policy just to just not respond to such attacks and I of course encourage other curves owners to do the same and will continue to do so but will respond to the above attacks in the Guests posts and will leave it at that.
As any owner who has contacted me off line knows there are three Texas lawyers who are taking certain case on a contingency fee. Those cases are the ones where Curves International and Howie have tried to sue owners over the remaining franchise and advertising fees once the owner has closed. The laws in Texas are clear on this matter and prevent Curves from winning these cases and the lawyers have been filling counter lawsuits against Curves for the franchisee owners for three times whatever Curves is asking for in their original summons. The lawyers are taking these cases on a 40% contingency fee. That is why Curves has not filled a summons since middle Dec of 09 against any Curves owner for closing early. Howie changed his tactics at that time and continues to try to intimidate owners into paying more money through a variety of what many owners feel is extortion tactics. I will not post the lawyers names on this site but if you are a Curves owner and have received a summons get a hold of me by sending an email to admin at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and it will be forwarded to me and I will certainly be happy to supply you with the lawyers who are handling the owners lawsuit on a contingency.
As far as the total number of clubs that are closing each month, I would put the number far more than the 80 to 100 but closer to 140 to 160 as I am helping that many owners each month with question about closing but my figure includes over seas clubs that are now beginning to close as fast as the US clubs were last summer. The 80 to 100 figure is a conservative number which has been given to us by a person who is in the know at a business associated with Curves and has dealings with owners on a daily basis. While we are not in the liberty at this time to divulge the source we believe it to be a true and a realistic number of clubs that are closing. Of course if Curves International would become more transparent they could tell us for sure how many clubs are closing each month but we won’t hold are breath for Howe to do that well we?
We know for a fact that there has been a recent shake up with personnel at Curves as an owner who is in frequent contact with us has her or his personal informant inside Curves International whom they are in contact with on a weekly basis. Cassie Findley who was from, 2004 through January 2009 Curves Director of Education and Research and served as Curve’s Vice Present of Training and Research since January of 2009 has just recently left Curves employment over yet to be reveled confrontation with Howie . It is our understanding that there will be more top management exiting Curves International in the not to distance future. We of course will keep all owners abreast of future developments.
As we mentioned in the post, many owners have reported to us about hearing through the grape vine about Curves being purchased by Diversified. It is a rumor at this time but where there is a rumor there is usually some fact to go with it and that rumor has been gaining traction form various sources for over three weeks. We do know for a fact that a MBA in business has gone over the financial records of Curves International which are publicly stated in the FDD document and that MBA has conclude that this company is headed into serious financial trouble. Could Howie pull it out from the brink of disaster? Certainly but Howie’s track record certainly doesn’t show that as happening and with all the closings continuing at such a fast rate the future of Curves International doesn’t look good or promising. So in conclusion we do maintain that Curves International is in major trouble with all the closings, the lawsuits, the mismanagement by the unethical, unscrambles , immoral, unchristian like behavior ,and sociopath ways of Howie this franchise is headed towards closing completely. It is truly a shame that one man’s actions can bring such devastation to thousands of owners.
By curves owners working together to send a strong message to Howie that it is time he left we are helping to make sure that one million women continue to get stronger.
My club is in very serious danger of closing. I can hang on a little while longer. Would it be better to begin closing procedures or wait and see what happens to Curves International? I would rather my members believe I closed because Curves International was in trouble rather than have to tell them I closed because I just couldn’t make it.
Kim,
That is a very tough decision and without further information on how your club is doing financially it is impossible to give you good advice. I sure you have the same complaints that the majority of owners have against Curves International so in reality the reasons you are failing can be attributed to Howie and his mismanagement of CII. While the economy certainly hasn’t helped owners or for that matter any business the down fall of CII can be directly related to Howie’s unethical, Immoral, and at times what most owners feel has been crooked business tactics. Why don’t you send an email to the admin at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com and they will forward it to me. Be sure to include your phone number and I will call you asap to go over your options and to give you some business advice.
Wipedout,
In your post earlier today you state, “At the pace Curves is collapsing, I have a feeling he’s afraid of going BACK to jail, this time for a longer stay.” There are many owners who would rejoice if this does happen and it may not be as far fetched as some would have you believe. If Howie continues the practice of not paying owners who close for the wellness members payments he could very well go to jail for fraud.
Insurance fraud is something that most states do not take lightly and CII, under Howie’s leadership, was not reimbursing owners for the wellness members payments once the owners closed until the end of Feb. 2010. When owners contacted us on that we advised them to file complaints with their states Insurance Board which many of them did for fraud and since that time it does appear that CII is reimbursing owners for the wellness payments that CII owes the owners. We explain to all owners who come to us for help in closing to check their bank statements for the two months after they close to make sure that CII does pay the owners the wellness payment owed to them and if not to immediately file a complaint with their state Insurance Board.
Anyone thinking of buying a Curves franchise as well as all owners should take the time to check this site out http://clubindustry.com/forprofits/entrepreneur-franchise-500-20100115/ Back in 2004 and 2005 Curves was the No. 2 franchise to buy on the Entrepreneur Top 500 business to buy. In 2007 it was No. 15 but in 2008 if fell all the way down to No. 185. Last year, 2009, it was No. 381 and this year guess where it is? Curves in 2010 did not even make the list!!!! That’s right, this year it is noticeably absent from the Entrepreneur top 500 companies to buy.
THIS COMPANY IS FAILING AND ANYONE WHO TRIES TO TELL YOU DIFFERENTLY HAS ABSOLUTLY NO CREDIABLITY AND IS THE ONE PUTTING HIS OR HERS FOOT IN THEIR MOUTH AND LOOKS LIKE A CLOWN.
I also find it very interesting that the No. 51 best franchise to buy is Snap Fitness. Why is this interesting you may ask? For several reasons, one of which is that Gary Findley, who managed the Curves from the beginning until late 03 when he was terminated by Howie is the CEO of Snap Fitness. Gary Findley was one of the founding owners of Curves who ended up suing Heavin for 20 million dollars and the case was settled out of court in 05 or 06. Since that time Curves has been on a downward spiral. It should leave no question as who was the brain behind the rise of Curves International. Oh by the way Snap Fitness is a 24/7 coed club similar to Curves. I will bet 4 to 1 Howie is kicking himself in the ass for terminating Findley.
I would like to make a correction to the above post as after checking out the snap fitness site it appears that the founder and CEO is Peter Taunton and according to their web site 2010 rankings are as follows.:
Entrepreneur magazine:
Best in Category-Health and Fitness (#1) T
Top New franchise (#2)
Fastest growing franchise (#5)
Inc, Magazine: top 500 business (#16)
Gary Findley is part of their management team
Hi Guys
I’m not going to write a book. I stumbled on this page by accident. The details of my situation are to painful to write about. All i can say is that we opened multiple Curves Clubs in the United Kingdom. I was made various promises by Gary Heavin in person, all of which were broken. I invested a great amount of money trying to keep my clubs going in very extreme, complicated circumstances. Curves took my best staff so they could mentor for other curves. Cutting to the chase, despite 4 years of hard work and loyalty to curves, they took me to a uk court and BANKRUPTED me. I lost my house, my business, my health. Thank you for this web page, and i pray you can help others before their life is ruined as mine was.
Thank You
Laurence,
Thank you for the post and we certainly hope that before any one buys a Curves franchise that they read the all the posts here to see just how crooked Howie is that they don’t make the same mistake that all the other owners have. Thanks again for your post.
Attention all owners
We have just become aware that there is a major investigation of Curves International and Gary Howard Heavin in the State of Ca. As most owners know before an individual can buy a franchise the franchise must send out a FDD document 14 days before the buyer is allowed to sign a franchise contract. The FDD document is filed not only with the Federal Trade Commission but is required to be on file in certain States. In California this FDD document must be filed each year by the end of March. The FDD document covers the previous year and included in that document the franchise must list current financial information, any lawsuits filed against the franchise and all current and closed franchise locations.
Upon going to the California Department of Corporations site for franchise renewal at
http://134.186.208.228/caleasi/search.asp?TASKNAME=xshowDocs&PackageID=286753 you will see that the most current FDD was filed March 2009 and was for the year 2008. We contacted the CA. Dept. of Corporations to find out when the new FDD document would be posted and we were told Curves had filed the document but that the CA Dept. of Corporations State lawyer’s had refuse to allow it to be filed as it contained what they considered fraudulent statements. I asked what that meant and the CA. Dept. of Corporations Lawyers told me that the state lawyers were working on the filing with the Curves lawyers but no resolution had been made as of yet. At that time we asked the CA. Dept. of Corporations Lawyer since it was not filed if Curves could still sell franchise and use the old 08 FDD and he replied absolutely not. So our next question was, well can Curves still sell franchisee at this time and the CA. Dept. of Corporations Lawyer put me on hold to ask another lawyer who was handling the actual case. When the CA Dept. of Corporations Lawyer came back on the phone he said no that Curves was not allowed to sell franchisee in the State of Ca. at this time but if they can satisfy the filing requirements in he future they maybe allowed to continue doing so. I than asked if he was aware of how fraudulent Curves was with dealing with the owners and he replied yes he was aware that many complaints had been filed and that if any owners of Curves had a complaint during the last three years they should go to the web site http://www.corp.ca.gov/default.asp and file a complaint immediately as Curves only had until the end of June to respond or a court case would be filed against Curves for failure to file the required documents. So in conclusion, Curves International can not sell franchises in the state of California at this time and any California Curves owner who has a complaint with Curves needs to immediately file a complaint with the California Department of Corporations at site http://www.corp.ca.gov/default.asp.
Another Curves owner’s dream becomes a nightmare.
http://www.kfoxtv.com/news/23684868/detail.html
Is anybody out there from NYS and have you happened to receive a letter from the Law Offices of Serota, Avis & Assoc. Please let me know. Thank you in advance.
When I googled Law Offices of Serota, Avis & Assoc. I saw a lot of stuff on Barry Serota & Associates. Same people?
Ripoff Report for Barry Serota & Associates
http://www.ripoffreport.com/bbb-better-business-bureau/barry-serota-associa/barry-serota-associates-they-w4b98.htm
http://www.ripoffreport.com/auto-repair-service/barry-serota-associa/barry-serota-associates-j-d5f44.htm
Complaints of harrassment/deceptive practices from Serota on behalf of ADT:
http://whocallsme.com/Phone-Number.aspx/8474836257
Better Business Bureau for Barry Serota & Associates:
http://www.bbb.org/chicago/business-reviews/attorneys/law-offices-of-barry-serota-and-associates-in-arlington-heights-il-51002411
P O Box 1008
Arlington Heights, IL 60006
3715 N Ventura Drive
Arlington Heights, IL 60004
From BBB: “Licensing for Law Offices of Barry Serota & Associates
This company is in an industry that may require licensing, bonding or registration in order to lawfully do business. BBB encourages you to check with the appropriate agency to be certain any requirements are currently being met.
These agencies may include:
Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission
130 E Randolph St
Ste 1500
Chicago, IL 60601-6209
(800) 826-8625
http://www.iardc.org“
They have the same address.
ticked off
if you scroll the comments above on March 28th, 2010 unhappy referenced lawyers from Illinois threatening franchisees and on April 21st, 2010 Former owner wrote about getting the letter.
Ok.. so we didn’t re-new or extend our 5 year franchise. We haven’t told CI yet that we are closing.
Any one else do this?
CI made contact 1-2 times about resigning another 5 years.. what a joke…
Nothing in about a month or more from them…not even the area director.
Now we are waitng for the shoe to drop from them..any help or info would be great!
Does anyone know what would happen to all the cases against Howie and the liens that he has placed against the franchisees, if he were to file bankruptcy? (We can only hope) I can’t see him going on much longer. I’m preparing to close, my neighboring town just closed, the next closest Club only has another year left to her contract and she won’t be renewing. So what happens to the outstanding fees he is trying to collect?
A Newark Curves closes . . .
http://www.newarkadvocate.com/article/20100609/UPDATES01/100609026/1052/COMMUNITIES02?flv=1
WOW! No wonder clubs close left and right – the OPEN one in Newark has SEVEN employees covering just 54 open hours and 260 members? With those hours and membership, 3 employees (1 full time and 2 part time) would be plenty. Yet another fine example of poor management on the ground. I suspect the Newark Curves to be following in the footsteps of their neighbors fairly soon. And it will all be the fault of the franchisor, right? And I’d agree; if you were arguing that they are at fault for allowing idiots to buy a franchise!