CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story
The American dream of owning your own successful business seems to be going up in smoke for a lot of the Curves Franchise owners. The story you are about to read may seem like a Steven King horror novel but it is a real story that has happened to my wife and I. To all of the past, present and future owners of a Curves franchise please take the time to read the whole story as at the end we explain what we plan to do and how you as an ex or present owner may want to get involved.
My wife and I had owned and operated our own business for over 20 years and had been very successful at doing so. While we were making a great income from our business there was something missing in our life. Neither us felt that we were contributing to society but just taking and we decided to make a major change in our life. That was when we heard about Curves for Women. It was a new franchise that only had 300 or so clubs and for the first time in years we both became excited at the prospect of actually helping people reach their goals. We bought our first club in 1997 located in a city of thirty thousand. From the first day it opened it was more successful than our wildest dreams. Not only were we making excellent money but the personal rewards helping people better their lives was a truly rewarding feeling. I can still remember as if it was yesterday the first time a Dr. of one of our members came in to check out what we were doing as he couldn’t believe the ch
anges his patient had gone through. She had gotten off her high blood medication and had lost over 40 pounds in 4 months. It was truly amazing and over the years we have seen it happen numerous times over and over.
We sold our first club in 2001 and bought two more franchises. My wife became a mentor for Curves International around this time and I was helping to sell franchise for Curves International as so many of are members wanted to own a club. It was at this time that we started to see problems arising with Curves International but we attributed it to the fast growth that Curves was going through. In 2002 we bought two more franchises but this time they were in what was called a metro-area instead of city under thirty thousand in population.
The first problem we encountered with Curves International was in early 2003. Curves sold a franchise that was a corridor of land between one of our franchise’s and the next city 8 miles from our southern boarder. It was obvious to us that the territory didn’t have the necessary population to support a facility and that Curves International was selling any location just out of greed and the fact that there were so many people who wanted a franchise. The people who bought that franchise tried to open up on our border but it had always been an unwritten but followed rule of Curves International that you open in the middle of your territory so that disputes between owners over stealing members from your territory didn’t arise. We immediately filed a complaint with Curves International and they stopped the new owner from opening at that location. Unfortunately for the new owners there were no other commercial locations between the two cities so they were forced into selling that franchise back to Curves International for a loss.
It was also at this time that Curves International started to change personnel. The employee’s who we had a personal relationship with that had started Curves International with Gary Heavin were leaving the company at an alarming rate. Seven employees that were the top management of Curves left or were forced out because of Gary Heavin’s greed. They ended up filling a law suit against Curves which was later settled out of court. It was at this time that Diane Heavin became involved with Curves and a whole new history was being written about how Curves was started. The original Curves member guide which was written by Gary Heavin and June Manley was taken off the market and the new Curves book authored by of course Gary Heavin was on the top 10 of the Times best seller list.. To make sure it was on the Times best seller list all the clubs had to order at least on case. That is when we as owners realized Heavin was a manipulator and not the born again Christian he portrayed to be. It was also at this time that the price to buy a franchise more than doubled in price. This came as quite a surprise as Heavin had always maintained that he would never ever increase his franchise price and he even swore on the bible in front of a group at club camp that he would never break his word on that. Well as we all know he didn’t keep that promise for long, which just shows his greed.
At this point my wife and I became quite concerned and even considered selling our business but other problems arose concerning Curves International that demanded our full attention. In 2004 another Curves location located on our boarder of one of our metro-areas hired two of our employees and stole around 15 members from our club. Both employees had signed the anti covenant not to compete and in our state those agreements are strictly enforced by the courts. We considered going to court but since it was another Curves facility we decided to file a complaint with Curves International. And to let them handle it. What a mistake that was as they did nothing. We transferred the members files but refused to transfer the money for the members dues until such time that Curves International responded to our complaint. We were told by the area director, which was a new position at Curves International, that we were trouble makers and he refused to send any of are clubs the members appreciation bags. Shortly thereafter Curves International resold the corridor of land that had been sold back to them at a loss from the previous owners and they allowed the new owners to open up in nearly the same location that they had refuse the previous owners only a year and a half before. The new owners advertised in our area and ended up getting 10 or 11 members to transfer to their club. Again we held their monthly dues but did transfer the members files. We immediately filed a complaint but again got the same response nothing. It didn’t take long for most of the members who transferred to come back to our club as the other location was small and in a very run down area and to this day that club has not shown a profit and has been sold numerous times over the years for little to nothing.
Then in 2005 the real problems with Curves International started that we are still contending with today. In one of our metro-areas a competitor by the name of Ladies Workout Express opened up right across the street from our location. Unknown to us they had hired our manager and one other employee from that location and when the employee’s left they had stolen off our computer our member files. They ended up stealing over two thirds of our membership with in a week. The employees had signed the covenant not to compete so we immediately hired a lawyer and prepared for a lawsuit. As I stated before in our state that agreement is strictly enforced but it took four months to get it into court. During this time that location was losing so much money that we decided to move the location next to our other territory so that both clubs could stay open. We sent in the required change of location form to Curves International but never heard anything back from them so we went ahead and relocated in late 05. The owners of the Ladies Workout Express eventually went broke because of the lawsuit and the fact that they would end up owing us monetary damages. They filed for bankruptcy to prevent us from collecting any monetary awards in Dec 05 but we did have the satisfaction knowing that we did what was right
In early 06 we were informed by Curves International that because we abandon that location they were terminating all of our franchise agreements. We immediately requested mediation for all of our clubs which is authorized by our franchise agreements with Curves International. We never heard back from them so we hired a lawyer in Waco, TX to represent us. He proceeded to send them a letter requesting the same mediation process and they did respond to him. They sent him letter stating that it was premature to go through the mediation process at that time as they were in the process of researching our reason for moving. Curves International continued to debit our account for the franchise and advertising fees for all the other clubs we owned but stopped talking the fees for the one territory that they stated we abandoned. The lawyer had us send Curves International a check for the fees and a new authorization form for them to deduct it from our account. Neither our lawyer or ourselves ever heard anything back from Curves International so we all assumed that things were back to normal.
In the spring of 07 we made the decision to start selling off all of our clubs and to completely retire. It didn’t take me long to sell the club we owned that wasn’t in a metro-area and I agreed to stay with the new owner’s to help train them how to run the business. We sent all the documentation into Curves International and the sale was completed by January 08. That freed my wife and I up to concentrate on our metro-area clubs and to get them ready for sale. In Feb of 08 we heard that a Curves club was opening in one of our territories within a mile of our current club. We could not understand how Curves International could do such a thing. We again filed a complaint by phone and e-mail to Curves International and several weeks later we were informed by e-mail that they didn’t know what we were talking about. We were told we didn’t own any franchises and hadn’t since we were terminated in 05. That came as quite a shock to my wife and I as our franchise and advertising fee’s had been deducted all along from our checking account and we had just recently sold a club that they were telling us we never owned. We had a local lawyer send a letter to the new owners explaining the situation and that we would be seeking legal recourse against Curves International and depending on the outcome they were opening themselves up to a potential lawsuit. During this time we had bought and paid in full for the Smart Equipment for Curves International and were waiting for the installation which was scheduled for the June 24th. On June 20th , a Friday we received a phone message telling us that the Curves Smart Installation was canceled and that we had to call Curves legal for an explanation. We left messages both e-mail and phone every 30 minutes on Monday June 23rd and finally late in the afternoon we received an e-mail stating that one of there lawyers would be in touch with us before the end of the day, They never sent an e-mail or a phone call as was promised but by mid day the next day they did respond by e-mail. It stated because of the problems with the members transfers, the fact that we abandoned a franchise, and that we had interfered with the opening of the new franchise located in our territory we weren’t approved for the Curves Smart. Yet in late May they had sent all the promotional ad material for the Curves Smart and of course we had gone to a considerable amount of expense for training the employees, advertising and promotion of the Curves Smart equipment. It was at this point that my wife and I decided that drastic action had to be taken against Heavin and Curves International.
While we still love the concept of Curves we feel that because of the deceptive and we believe fraudulent business practices that Heavin has allowed under his management Curves will eventually end up in the toilet so to speak. After spending many hours on the internet we have found that there are many lawsuits against this man and his company. Just read some of the post’s that are on franchisepick.com from owners concerning the new ten thousand fee if your club goes under and closes to the vitamins that were sold in Feb and March by Ideas in Action at a discount to owners without telling them that they would expire at the end of May. The lack of support and communication from Curves International that all of us owners are going through is intolerable. It is impossible for an owner to get through to them on the phone and good luck if you expect a call back in a timely manor. The fact that we as owners pay a lot of money for our advertising fees and have no accounting of where it is spent and a quite frankly we never see many ads in our area.
I have taken the time to do the necessary research to find several good lawyers who handle franchise law who are more than willing to help Curves owners who are having similar problems with Curves. I for one am going to go after Curves International and Gary Heavin in a court of law. These are not class action but group action lawsuit and if you don’t understand the difference contact me and I will explain it to you. There have been over 200 such lawsuit filed against Curves in the last several years and while some have been settled in mediation others are in the process of going to litigation. If you are a past or present Curves owner who has experienced these problems and want satisfaction whether it be monetary or revenge please contact me. We have several options that we can go and I for one am positive we will win as the other lawsuits have been successful so far and have set a precedent for ours. It is time for the owners of Curves franchises either past or present to stand up together and put a stop to Heavins’s ramped destruction of peoples lives just for monetary greed.
Thanks for reading our post and God Bless you all.
ARE YOU AN CURVES FRANCHISE OWNER OR FORMER CURVES FRANCHISEE?
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CURVES FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITY?
PLEASE SHARE A COMMENT BELOW.
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Here’s the first of two posts on the WSJ article. Your comments welcome:
CURVES: 1000 Franchise Clubs Failed Last Year
I will post the 2nd – on President Raymond’s characterization of Curves franchisees both as having “investor” rather than “owner” mindsets AND as being deadwood that needed to be pruned as part of CI’s master plan – when I get my breath back.
I’d appreciate any reaction to those statements you might have had. Also, reaction to the CI earnings disclosure.
We should all send Howie and Rayassmond a box of prunes along with a roll of toilet paper so they can flush themselves down the toilet. I’m sure all they are hearing is the whooshing sound as Curves all over the world get flushed down the toilet because of their pruning process.
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Unhappy,
Your comment – We should all send Howie and Rayassmond a box of prunes along with a roll of toilet paper so they can flush themselves down the toilet. I’m sure all they are hearing is the whooshing sound as Curves all over the world get flushed down the toilet because of their pruning process.
So funny :)
Thank you
Just wanted to let endofmyrope (and anyone else who’s interested), I’m closing my club August 31st. By the way I posted the Wall St Journal ad on my bulletin board for all my members to see.
CI doesn’t seem to realize, the more they bully me or try to
extort money from me, the more badmouthing I will do…..word definitely spreads and not one of my members has a shred of respect left for CI after seeing what I
went through. They all know how hard I worked!
I have NOT responded to CI since they sent that threat about the $10K other than
to say a). I’m closing my club ethically, I’m NOT abandoning it, all of my members
have been kept in the loop, my annual prepays are being refunded, etc. etc.
and b). I OWN my equipment, no way can they tell me what to do with any of it.
Lastly I sent a comment re: the WSJ article, CI is so behind the times it isn’t funny, that ‘pruning’ statement was what they were saying at last year’s convention when I joined. NOW what can they say? I am the ‘prunee’ after the
first owner was ‘pruned’. And I failed too! And I WAS THERE every single day,
and invested every penny I had, and did it ‘the Curves way’ (which by the way
is something out of the 1950s!!!!)
If I were CI and I wanted to say in business I would do the following:
– Start sending more FREE stuff to their franchises, particularly posters and
advertising material (and for pete’s sake don’t charge for Diane magazine)
– Start ADVERTISING on TV like, 500% more than they are now
– Partner with Weight Watchers for the diet portion instead of trying to
re-invent the wheel with their too-complicated ‘3 phase’ diet
– Start LISTENING to their franchises instead of being so defensive.
The whole CULTURE at CI is defensive! My area director couldn’t/wouldn’t
listen to ANY complaints or suggestions. The things she had to tell us, I’m
wondering how she could SLEEP at night.
– The buddy referral system is LAUGHABLE. In today’s day and age people
aren’t going to give our their friends phone #s…..and even if they do, their
friends are going to screen their calls and hit DELETE. Basically CI is using
a game of 1950’s telephone tag to get new members. It’s laughable.
What PLANET is CI on?
LOL
Curves franchise owners, past and present, are invited to add their reactions to Mike Raymond’s comments here:
CURVES Franchise Owners React to Comments That They’re Being “Pruned”
If you emailed Richard Gibson or Mike Raymond, feel free to share the text of your message. CI will be invited to respond and/or clarify what the plan to “prune the system” entails.
Raymond will no doubt claim that he was misquoted or quoted out of context. But the statement rings true. At least publicly, Curves International continues to express no real empathy for the thousands of owners losing their businesses, nor any urgency in stemming the tide of closures.
Mike Raymond’s statement about the closures being the fault of franchisees with “investor” (?) mentalities is consistent with Gary Heavin’s blaming the high Curves SBA default rate simply on overpriced resales.
In both cases, CI has publicly explained that the closures were solely the franchisees’ faults for being greedy, not working their clubs, and not following the system. If you have an alternative view, please add it to the comments on the linked post. Otherwise, the media will simply write the official explanation into the official history of Curves International.
“Curves should have capped the number of clubs at 4,000 to 5,000.”
I wrote that two years ago as part of the first response to Robert Lay’s post. Now I see it was all part of a cynical plan by Curves to oversaturate the market, then let “pruning” take place. That “pruning” process, which has now occurred, cost my family our beautiful home, most of our life savings and our peace of mind.
I hope Zarco and Einhorn subscribe to the WSJ!
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I received this e-mail from my Curves Central Florida Association Coordinator to our Area director, cc Mike Raymond, and Curves Franchise Association. I tried the number myself and put in the zip I live in, which the Curves closed there, it didn’t mention my club which is 9 miles away or the two other clubs that are about the same distance, maybe closer. Is this the ExLax way to Prunes?
Hi Julie, (area director)
I called 800-Curves-30 (800-287-8373) and used option 2 which allows the caller to enter the zip code to find the nearest Curves. The recording said, “We’re sorry. Currently there are no Curves clubs in your area”.
In addition to the main Curves 800 number several other Curves numbers have the same message.
800-367-8050
800-615-7352
866-560-7614
877-528-8434
877-792-8129
I tried several other zip codes where active Curves clubs are located including my own club. I received the same erroneous message.
This is very disheartening. We are all struggling to convince the public that we are all still around and open for business. Meanwhile, Curves 800 numbers are telling the world the opposite; that there are “no Curves left in your area”.
The 800 numbers will discourage anyone from trying to find a Curves.
A portion of the 3% advertising fees are spent maintaining these 800 numbers which are currently putting out erroneous and detrimental information.
Julie, Please look into this matter as soon as possible. It is imperative that it be corrected.
This was the response we got back from Mike Rayond:
Thanks. We’ll look into it right away.
Fitness company scaling back
http://www.indystar.com/article/20100712/BUSINESS/7120315/1003/Fitness-company-Curves-is-scaling-back
“Curves says the closings were simply about weeding out the poorly performing franchises and keeping profitable, well-run facilities.
“‘Many of the club closings in 2009 were part of a plan to prune the system,’ said Kathy Carr, a spokeswoman for Curves, headquartered in Waco, Texas.”
Curves is still using that incredibly callous word “pruning.” Looks like it wasn’t a misquote.
Anyone who is thinking about opening up a Curves Franchisee should stop thinking about it!!! Please, I am telling you, not to do it. Yes, it is nice to never have to work for someone else again, have your own thing going, make your own decisions, etc. But, you have no support system at all, I am not the most business savy person, or the best person with words, but, I care about people and how I treat them. I only had my business for ONE year, let me tell you, I will not blame one person, some of the blame I do put on myself, I should have never trusted anyone, especially when it comes to getting rid of a business, they are not going to be totally honest because they are trying to unload something that is costing them money not making them money. Damn, why didn’t I just stop and think about that once, instead of being all hyped up about running my own thing… NOT WORTH IT!!! Never once, did I hear from an AD, don’t even know her name in this area. Surprised, anyone, honestly I was…So you can call me stupid, whatever, I expected more than that!! Whatever happens, happens. I have NO money to give anyone, about lost our house and now I am working 12hr. swing shifts. Just, thankfully I do have a job and trying to get things straightened out…
Jackie,
Thanks for posting and you are so right about no support what so ever!! You have the right attitude so keep it up Jackie you will make it in the long run. Good luck in the future and God Bless.
Jackie,
Thanks for posting Jackie and you are so right!!!! Good luck and God bless
So my mom and I have owned our club, which was a re-sale, since January 2008. At the time, the bank, attorney and tax advisor all said what a great investment this would be. All of our paperwork was finished before the economy started tanking. I can’t say that if we were in the same situation today that we’d even be able to get a loan. However, what’s happened can’t be changed.
At first we made some major changes – repainted the club, increased hours (especially in the a.m. which was closing at 10:30am, so we started closing at 1pm) and the ladies were excited that the owners were always here. We work all the hours. We have no employees. Shortly after, CurvesSmart came out and we leased it for 3 years. Our membership increased and I was actually able to start taking somewhat of a “paycheck” in April 2009.
Flash forward to now. Our membership has dropped. I have not gotten “paid” for about 5 months. We no longer have samples of products because they’ll sit on our shelf forever. This is one of the worst summer’s for attendance since we’ve been owners.
My mom and I discuss alot and we both agree that Curves gets some things right, but mostly they have been getting alot of things wrong lately. First, we were both memebrs at different clubs and LOVED it. Thirty minutes was perfect and we truly believe that the circuit works if you want to put in the effort. I lost 25 lbs. just by starting the Curves workout and watching what I ate. That’s the main reason we decided to own our own club. Curves manages to draw in a group of women that would NEVER have thought about setting foot in a gym. Curves does not discriminate against age, fitness level, income, etc. All ladies should feel comfortable.
Here’s what they get wrong:
* Advertising – day late and a dollar short – weight managment commercials should be bombarding the TV stations beginning in December, not in the summer. Also, why advertise on TNT or any cable channel? Some of our members don’t even have cable, so they could care less about the Stronger Together promotion on TNT right now! Instead of all the online ads, put the money into ads on the major networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox) during, oh, let’s just say American Idol, where the same demographics apply. How many times have ladies come into the club and talked about AI or Dancing with the Stars! Obviously, Cheryl Burke (DWTS) is a spokesperson for Jazzercise and I understand that it’s fairly costly to get a spoksperson, but we had an amazing opportunity with Olivia Newton-John and the LivAid. Why wasn’t that relationship built on? Some of the advertising we do locally is waaaay out of our price range. Getting the local media to do anything for us is a joke. Curves should consider going back to their “grassroots” and start a national campaign with billboards across the country along with advertising on the major networks.
* Products – the fact that we haven’t had a new clothing line is absurd! We have a few t-shirts and a ton of water bottles to choose from, but members are looking for workout gear. The Stronger Together shirts are too expensive and the fact that a small club like ours would have to buy items in bulk just to sell one and then not make back what we even spent is not worth the effort to show the members in our club. The workout milestone t-shirts all in purple helped us. We were giving away each milestone. When they changed it to all purple, we decided to only offer 100, 500, and 1000. If they want any of the others, we actually make a couple bucks. But you only can own so many purple t-shirts!
I could go on about other examples, but…
I feel that I am more unsettled because of recent events. In our metro area alone, one club has closed (May) and four others in our state are for sale (one of which is right next to our territory). We decided to send out a letter to our current members mentioning the recent closings across the US and the fact that some clubs have permanently reduced hours. Ladies have heard stories or noticed these changes while traveling. We wanted to reassure them that we are not closing. Our timing wasn’t planned, but we mailed these letters on June 28. Then, on July 7 the WSJ article appeared. By July 10 it was on the MSN home page with a photo of the circuit. Low and behold, I have had several members mention this article to me or my mom. What is most disheartening is that we have not gotten a single email from corporate with any rebuttal.
I was thinking that Monday morning there would have been an email from the top people. But as of today, not a thing. Nothing. Will they address this? It’s awfully quiet and I am concerned how this is going to affect any membership drive we are trying to get going. After hearing about the article, I stumbled upon many websites, including this one and have read through many postings.
I still feel that Curves works for those willing to stick with the circuit routine. Many women have unfortunately been left high and dry with the closing of clubs, but many of us are still trying to stay open through all of the hard times. But, something’s got to give and we are hanging on as best we can for now so that our members do have a place to go. But right now, I need some kind of response from corporate so that I don’t get too bitter.
Jackie….I absolutely agree. Someone called me to ask what I thought about her buying the Curves 6 miles away from me that closed in December! And yes: she was serious.
I told her my opinion, but doesn’t look like she listened. I even suggested she check out this site before deciding. Maybe she did….who knows.
Best of luck to her! I wish no one ill will, but I don’t see how she can last long. After all, there was a reason why they closed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Best of luck Jackie, Susie, et al
The recent articles were yet another slap in the face to owners who had no choice but to close before our time. My thought on the pruning is this:
You can’t get fruit to grow from a pruned, discarded branch. Since CI planned for our clubs to close as part of a pruning process, they shouldn’t be demanding any amount of monetary fruit.
They will still try to intimidate owners who they pruned for more monetary fruit but owners need to know their rights and should not pay them a dime not one more dime !!!!!!!!
Did anyone’s closing letter say “We understand that unfortunately at times circumstances may arise leaving few options other than proceeding with the closing of your franchise’, but state that they will still charge you a ‘minimal monetary payment”? Sounds odd…..
It used to be caled the closing fee but now it’s just a minimal monitary payment. Is 10,000 minimal in anyone’s eyes? They of course lower it down to between 1000 to 3000 what ever they think they squeese out of you..DON’T PAY THEM A DIME ITS ALL INTIMIDATION AND EXTORTION AND HOWIE KNOWS HE CAN’T COLLECT A NICKLE MUCH LESS A DIME.
Curves International changes it’s business tactics more than Howie changes his underware but one thing remains consistant. Howie still tries to rip off owners for more money by using intimidation and extortion …….
curves owner 2,
why would you even try to carry on a conversation with such an assh–e. He has never owned a Curves, tells nothing but lies and tries to put every owner down as if they are the reason they failed. It is obvious that he is pro Howie and yet still tries to deny that he is. He has absolutely no business sense and never will. Most of us on this board just ignore him and don’t even read his posts. That makes him very mad and it shows as he than attacks more but who cares his opinion is worthless. We all consider him a sick joke and by not responding he throws his tantrum and tries to say all the advice we give is incorrect. We have all found if we just ignore his posts he disappears for awhile and than like a bad apple comes back. Obviously he has way too much time on his hands and is probably an unemployed garbage collector who’s wife left him high and dry and he tries to make everyone around him as miserable I he is. “Why even respond to such idiotic posts from someone who knows nothing about what the Curves owners have had to go through with Howie’s unethical, immoral and sometimes illegal business tactics. He really should do due diligence on his own life or maybe look in a mirror and realize what a despicable person he has become. We all feel sorry for him and hope some day he will grow up but until then just ignore him!!!!!
Thank you unhappy for everything you do here….
FYI all….My closing date is set for July 31st. Looking forward to having a life again!!!! Whew………..
Unhappy, you’re the one that brings in the childish name calling and obviously have way too much time on your hands. You don’t give your ‘followers’ all of the information, and that’s where I come in. You don’t respond, because you can’t.
As for your new suggestion of a franchise people should join, why would you even suggest people go back into a franchise. Isn’t that what people want to get away from. Wonder if you have some sort of monetary gain to make of it.
As for calling people a__holes. Respect the admin. When you start your private group (again wasn’t that supposed to start a couple of weeks ago), then feel free to call people what you want, but it’s pretty disrespectful to the admin. It really brings out that ‘christian’ side in you.
Thankfully, you know nothing about me. Admin actually likes the fact that I post on here. People need to take responsibility and quit blaming others.
■endofmyropeisanoose
You are more than welcome endofmyropeisanoose and dont let individuals who know nothing about Curves try to put you down. Just ignore their posts and let them make ass out of themselfs. It’s not worth trying to explain anything to them as if their brains were explosives they wouldn’t have enough to blow their own nose. It is obvious that some people just have an overwhelming desire to butt into threads that they have no knowledge of. They were probably picked on as kids, lack bonding with their mothers, and have many other personal problems. They really need to see a psycholgist before they become postal but the way to deal with them is to just ignore them. As you can see it really pisses them off. Ha Ha
Actually, you are the one going ‘postal’ by calling people a__holes, and putting down garbage collectors (although I’m sure you wouldn’t want to live without them). Hell, you get pissed off to the point that you post the same thing three times on one thread and put one line comments on threads to push my topics down.
You just get upset that someone disagrees with you. You get upset when I tell you that things have changed in the group action lawsuit. In my opinion, you are possibly putting these people in a position that they could lose more (ie the franchisees that were added as third party defendants to the group action).
Look at the article that I posted written by attorneys talking about in-term non-compete agreements (which you say that are unenforceable, yet they seem to think they could be enforced).
As for your pathetic personal attacks, it doesn’t bother me. I think it shows that I’m a much stronger person for that. Thanks for making me realize how old people can be so bitter when someone disagrees with them.
Looking forward to the day that you get your Yahoo group started (or are you going to let us all down)
thanks unhappy for your postings here and for the time you spend standing up for curves owners. two things though really disturb me and make me not want to return here.
one of the things you hate about howie is that he doesn’t listen to other peoples ideas and doesnt respect any ideas that arent his own. i would think that you would try to be different but to be homnest dont you do the same thing? i dont agree with jd about things but this is america and i think we should respect peoples right to have differnet opinions. you come off as a bully like howie. cant you respectfully disagree?
the other thing is that you stoop to crudeness and vulgarity which lowers your credibility. I can just see howie and his supporters dismissing everyone here as crackpots when you call people a-holesor farts in the wind, etc.
its too bad because i agree with you and disagree with him but he has the right to disagree with you and its too bad you can’t be civil and professional about it.
I, for one, do not like the name calling from anyone. Its immature and unprofessional. BUT my complaint against jd or anomymous is he criticizes owners and belittles their business practices when he has never owned a Curves. Owning a Curves is the only way you can understand what you have to go thru during the actual running of the club and then realizing you have to close your doors. If jd wants to help, give only facts, not opinion. Don’t criticize an owner when you have no idea what he/she is going thru. At least unhappy has been there..done that.
Elizabeth, while I do come off as ‘belittling’ people there is a reason for it. First, people post their stories on here and other franchise websites and don’t give the whole story. For example, a few years ago, someone told their story and was asking for all of this help and saying how bad the franchisor was (very well known name). and how they were terminating their franchise agreement. What they didn’t tell people was that they had been late on payments (kindof a big part of the story).
Second, I ask these questions, because there were mistakes made in the due diligence process. Imagine if someone came across this website thinking about buying a franchise reads my critiques of Curves Owner 2, and takes those into consideration when doing their due diligence.
You and Lucas, respectifully disagreeing with people is how people learn and I appreciate your input. While Unhappy believes that his advice is all that matters and says that I ‘lie’, I’m providing other sides to think about. Unhappy is not a lawyer and when he comes out and states that transfer fees are illegal and that non-compete agreements are unenforcable, it makes me hope that people are taking that as the truth, because they could get burnt in the end.
It has been reported on the Yahoo Owners group that a few Curves franchises in the Dover, DE area have converted to a franchise called Ladies First Fitness. It sounds like it has equipment similar to Curves, but has a lot of add ons, and a kid zone, etc. Has anyone heard of this franchise?
And it has also been stated on that website that Curves clubs are closing at the rate of 70+ per month….that figure is just since March. Doesn’t sound too good for Howie & Co., now does it.??
jd ive just read through a lot of your past comments. you make the point that franchisees should have done their due diligence and probably not bought a curves. great. we get it. few who have lost so much would disagree that they made a mistake. point taken. no need to make it again and again.
you feel that most of the problems were caused by overpriced resales bought by gullible buyers. Sure it was a factor but 1/3 of all clubs closed because they overpaid? not because maybe some of the $16M in profit should have been used in advertising or innovations to add value or offset dwindling memberships? OK… that’s your opinion and it’s been stated.
you make the point that unhappy is a hothead and spouts a lot of opinions as fact. his opinions should be taken with a grain of salt and checked with a real attorney. point made. point taken.
Youve been heard. No need to keep coming back again and again rubbing it in the face of people who are facing foreclosure and sometimes unbearable strains on their families. ok, you’re smarter than unhappy and every failing curves owner. your hindsite is 20/20. congrats. but unhappy does have something you don’t: compassion and the experience of having been through this.
Your points are made. Please move on elsewhere and spend your time more productively like lecturing the homeless on the street about their poor life decisions or pulling the wings off flies.
Lucas, point taken, but when things are repeated by Unhappy or others, it’s fair game to repeat it. Sorry, but people might not read through 800+posts.
About the $16M in profit, at this point Heavin is going to take all the profit he can get (and that $16M is from operations, not the separate Marketing funds). He knows the brand is going to die off, so why re-invest it. Curves was a fad that is going away. There are fitness places all over now (hell when I moved into my community there were no fitness places outside a 10 mile radius except for 2 Curves, they are both gone, but there are now 2 24/7 places and a newer Y). If you were in year 9 of a 10 year franchise agreement, would you re-invest your profit if you knew you were soon to be done?
Lucas, don’t worry I will remain on the website, as I have been here since it’s beginnings (well before Curves became a topic).
jd perhaps instead of beating the dead horse you could actually offer some ideas for what you would do in these owner’s positions besides sit in a room and beat themselves up.
if CI really is ok with letting struggling or marginal clubs go, then maybe those on the fence should just try and make a go of it on their own, ignore curves form ltrs and collection agents and make the changes they think should be made with lower overhead and no fees to CI.
i do find the suggestion of converting to a different franchise beyond ludicrous. If anything, curves owners should start a co-op with a shared name and marketing materials.
jd, many of us have posted on this thread, and we don’t repost our thoughts again and again “because people might not read through 800+ posts.” What arrogance, to think your ideas are so important. You are so harsh toward former owners, yet you “care” enough to continue to repost your “superior” thoughts? NOT. It’s all about you.
Lucas, I agree that at this point, it would be easier to de-identify and open as an independent, but it’s up to the owner as to how to do it.
You could take Unhappy & your advice and just change names and stop sending in royalty payments. The question you have to ask yourself, is whether you want to be worried about Curves coming back at you a year or two down the road (depending on if another group action lawsuit is filed, you could get thrown in as a third-part defendant). If you do that, I would hold back some money for possible legal fees.
I posted a link to an article written by a law firm dated in May 2010. It’s recommendation on ‘in-term’ non-compete agreements was to discuss a deal with the zor. I think it’s a good, well-balanced read for anyone thinking about de-identifying..
http://www.larkinhoffman.com/files/OTHER/Non-Compete.pdf
Lastly, close and file bankruptcy and start everything all over again.
‘tell it’ Please go through all of the threads and see how many times Unhappy has ‘reminded’ people to go the BBB website.
So, now Curves if down to a little more than 4700 locations in the US — down from the 10,000+ they boasted about. I hardly think there is anything Christian (or any other religion) that could support Curves. ANY good organization would support their franchisees, but instead Curves took our initial money for the franchise and now they’re says we’re being weeded out. If I had know they were going to do that, I never would have invested. We had over 1500 members at one time, and had problems with a neighboring Curves, who was an unethical as CI. We asked CI for their help and Mike Raymond said he’d look into it. There were so many complaints against the other Curves, from legal, to members, police reports, complaints from his neighboring tenants, and guess what CI did about it — zero!! We closed that Curves with little more than 150 members — down from 1500. We’ve been weeded. CI is an unethical, greedy organization. Kudos to those franchisees that opened under a different name.
jd,
Your statement, “Second, I ask these questions, because there were mistakes made in the due diligence process. Imagine if someone came across this website thinking about buying a franchise reads my critiques of Curves Owner 2, and takes those into consideration when doing their due diligence.”
If someone reads your critique of the situation, they will be confused by your statements. As we all are.
jd,
As you are not a Curves owner why don’t you but out. My wife and I made the mistake of buying a Curves and we are dealing with all the problems of trying to keep it open. Not only are we not getting any help from CI, we moved it in to a brand new facility, and no one from CI has yet set foot in our club. We have been open in the new location for over a year.
To all the rest of you thank you for the information you are posting. We are hanging on by a thread and may have to shout the doors any day.
rb
jd
It is, after all, “Robert Lay’s Story.” You see, only in your mind is it all about you.
For those of us that are trying to hang in and make this work, I just got off the phone with Curves International to find out that in March 2010 they had dissolved their partnership with BlueCross Blueshield 365 and were only billing until July 2010, this was the last month for the automatic payment to us. When were we going to be told? They also dissolved the partnership with Walmart and McDonalds employees. And has hindered any marketing we could have done with Weight Watchers. I have also experienced one health plan that pulled out of the SilverSneakers program with no notice to the club or the members. I lost 8 months of payments. So where is the backing of being part of a franchise. We invested in the franchise to have a name. Well the name is going to hell. What choice do we have, we are all tired of beating a dead horse. Going to every business group in the area, handing out flyers, working 40+ hours a week and nothing to show for it. And starting this month, July, we will be payed the max of $32. for 8 workouts for the SilverSneakers. Doesn’t seen like anything is getting better, just worse. So if anyone can give us something positive to look forward to in owning a Curves, please post it. Otherwise I will also be volunteering for the plan to “prune the system”
I visited Bluecross Blueshield 365 website to look at their discounts for their policy holders, sure enough Curves was replaced by SnapFitness. CI is really working on us staying in business.
One thing I don’t tolerate well is the infighting and name calling on any type of website. It gets old and downright dirty at times which in turn defeats the original purpose of such a forum. I originally posted my comments to vent a little and hopefully gain some support from other struggling Curves owners. I know there are more out there like my mom and I in similar situations.
I was disheartened by the WSJ article (7/7/2010) and have since had a few ladies come in and ask if we were closing or they bring in the actual article like I hadn’t already seen it. I feel like we were blind sided and all I could do was tell these ladies that we are not closing, but I have no specific answer for them regarding a corporate response. We have made some recent updates to make it look more inviting and OPEN FOR BUSINESS! We repainted our street signs and building sign. We added flower boxes in front of our windows and I got vinyl lettering to post our hours to look more professional than a taped up paper.
What I’ve learned from marketing recently is that certain places will not let you leave a lead box or flyers. If we do leave a lead box, it is stuffed with bogus interested people as a joke or there’s nothing at all. I personally have never filled out a form for a lead box, nor would I in this day and age of ID theft and constant calls from telemarketers. Since it’s just the two of us, we can only get so many flyers out at a time. We’ve aksed our members to place some for us (of which they have obliged). However, they do not like to give out information on their friends. I have heard many comments from the members that the previous employees would constantly hound them about referrals and they are so turned off at the prospect that we very rarely approach our current members. Our co-op has tried very costly newspaper, radio and television advertising. Some of these worked a little, but mostly it was too much money spent and not enough in return to even recoup a little back. We’re trying to find other ways of marketing that might not be as costly with the same impact. I will repeat myself here and state again, since we pay advertising dues to CI, it should be invested in prime time TV (ABC, CBS, NBC and Fox) not cable. We need a spokesperson (Olivia Newton-John?). Heck, in the Spring 2010 issue of Diane magazine there was an article about Kathy Kinney (formerly “Mimi” from The Drew Carrey Show). She has already been a Curves member for seven years. Wouldn’t she be perfect??? Her “before” picture could show her in the garish makeup as Mimi! We NEED something major in advertising, but locally we can’t afford it; we need our advertising dollars put to good use!
The products are coming around, but very slowly. We have very minimal clothing items to display right now. We don’t like to display things for too long, because eventually we can’t get a certain size or style because it’s out of stock. Our current members are looking for workout gear, not more water bottles and gym bags! And they can only have so many t-shirts. Of course the new Stronger Together shirts are more expensive and in this tight economy, the last thing someone wants to do is pay MORE for another Curves shirt. We need workout gear!
I understand the concept of packaging items and selling them as a 10 pack, especially if it’s trinkets. But for a small club like ours, ordering 12 protein shakes or a case of 25 weight management books doesn’t work. Would it hurt to reduce the sizes? Maybe a case of 6 protein shakes or 10 weight management books? We cancelled our subscription to Diane magazine for the very reason that we always had at least 50-75 left over. How about packages of 25 for us small clubs to purchase as needed, not the case of 100!
We need some FRESH IDEAS to market through corporate and on our own. The programs in place now are no longer doing the trick. People are very suspicious of your intentions any more. Many times I have salespeople call or come in and I’m always on edge about what they are trying to rope me into.
I will once again state that without Curves, I would still be an overweight, unhappy person still on antidepressants. I started workoing out at Curves 25 lbs. heavier and I stopped taking all meds cold turkey because I wanted those happiness endorphins to start working instead. Besides, being a busy mom, I really liked the idea of ONLY 30 minutes. I watch my mom deal with knee issues and workout because I don’t want to be in that position when I’m her age (or sooner). I think MANY women would be lost without Curves. Big co-ed gyms and the equipment in them are itimidating. Curves has taught many women the benefits of cardio and strength training in a safe, non-intimidating atmosphere, some of whom have never set foot in a gym in their life! CurvesSmart, while it has some issues, still kicks butt every single time I work out!
I do believe that the old tried & true methods no longer apply though. Curves needs to make a major splash across the country, but not in the form of unpleasant press (WSJ).
I AM NOT AN UNHAPPY FRANCHISEE, I AM A SURVIVING FRANCHISEE. I DO NOT WISHED TO BE “PRUNED”! I WISH TO BLOSSOM!
To HusCurves fan–
You are on the wrong web site….most of us here have tried all that and then some and we no longer have any advice to shell out to franchisees who are still trying. I admire you and all that you are doing/trying to do.
Are you a member of the Yahoo Curves Owners group? If not join that group and there are other franchisees like you that are doing well and want to do better.
I wish you all the luck in the world and much success.
Keep on Blossoming!
HusCurves Fan:
Welcome and thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts, what’s working for you, and what isn’t, etc.
It’s a good reminder that not everyone is closing or has closed. Hopefully some of the veterans will share some ideas here for things you might try.
We know that CI reads these comment threads (as do WSJ writers). Everyone should feel free to to post ideas & requests as to what marketing changes they’d like to see. Maybe the glare of public scrutiny will prompt some positive changes. (more wishful thinking?)
More stories coming out using Curves closures like
“Curves, other gyms in Utah cope with downturn” http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/money/49936718-79/club-health-curves-cut.html.csp
“Curves, which has cut thousands of locations nationally, is down to about 40 outlets in Utah after climbing to more than 50 (the parent company won’t provide exact numbers).”
Hard to believe it was just last June, in the middle of “pruning” 1000 clubs the AAFD named them franchisor of the year. http://www.aafd.org/thefranchiseevoice/2009FranchisorOfTheYear.php
“The American Association of Franchisee and Dealers (AAFD) announced Curves International, Inc., as AAFD’s Franchisor of the Year for 2009.
“Curves International is the franchisor of Curves fitness centers, the world’s largest fitness network with nearly 10,000 franchisee-owned fitness clubs serving four million women worldwide. Curves is also one of the fastest growing franchise companies in history.”
“Under the leadership of company founders, Gary and Diane Heavin, Curves has defined itself as a franchise system built upon a culture of collaboration with and respect for its franchisee network, as well as setting a high standard for customer satisfaction and commitment.”
“Said CEO Gary Heavin, “We have always made every effort to work hand in hand with our franchisees—as partners and as friends. The CFA is an indispensable resource, providing invaluable feedback that allows us to serve our franchisees at a higher level. I am pleased to accept this award in recognition of the collaborative efforts of our corporate employees, our franchisees and the CFA.”
New article about Curves in the Waco paper that owners should read….
http://www.wacotrib.com/news/Waco-fitness-chain-Curves-finds-itself-shrinking-closing-more-than-1000-locations.html
Why didnt any of you owners who say you had wonderful booming clubs put any of that fabulous money away when you were doing soooooo well????? Dont blame Gary for your poor business sence!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Curves did grow very quickly. Many of the origionals whom I too know and worked with very closely, filed suits because they thought they deserved a bigger piece of Garys pie!!!!! Obviously they didnt and they are no longer here. Grow up people and take responsibility for your business……ONLY YOU make it what it is!!!
Thanks for changing my mind about buying a curves. Good luck to all of you.