CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story
The American dream of owning your own successful business seems to be going up in smoke for a lot of the Curves Franchise owners. The story you are about to read may seem like a Steven King horror novel but it is a real story that has happened to my wife and I. To all of the past, present and future owners of a Curves franchise please take the time to read the whole story as at the end we explain what we plan to do and how you as an ex or present owner may want to get involved.
My wife and I had owned and operated our own business for over 20 years and had been very successful at doing so. While we were making a great income from our business there was something missing in our life. Neither us felt that we were contributing to society but just taking and we decided to make a major change in our life. That was when we heard about Curves for Women. It was a new franchise that only had 300 or so clubs and for the first time in years we both became excited at the prospect of actually helping people reach their goals. We bought our first club in 1997 located in a city of thirty thousand. From the first day it opened it was more successful than our wildest dreams. Not only were we making excellent money but the personal rewards helping people better their lives was a truly rewarding feeling. I can still remember as if it was yesterday the first time a Dr. of one of our members came in to check out what we were doing as he couldn’t believe the ch
anges his patient had gone through. She had gotten off her high blood medication and had lost over 40 pounds in 4 months. It was truly amazing and over the years we have seen it happen numerous times over and over.
We sold our first club in 2001 and bought two more franchises. My wife became a mentor for Curves International around this time and I was helping to sell franchise for Curves International as so many of are members wanted to own a club. It was at this time that we started to see problems arising with Curves International but we attributed it to the fast growth that Curves was going through. In 2002 we bought two more franchises but this time they were in what was called a metro-area instead of city under thirty thousand in population.
The first problem we encountered with Curves International was in early 2003. Curves sold a franchise that was a corridor of land between one of our franchise’s and the next city 8 miles from our southern boarder. It was obvious to us that the territory didn’t have the necessary population to support a facility and that Curves International was selling any location just out of greed and the fact that there were so many people who wanted a franchise. The people who bought that franchise tried to open up on our border but it had always been an unwritten but followed rule of Curves International that you open in the middle of your territory so that disputes between owners over stealing members from your territory didn’t arise. We immediately filed a complaint with Curves International and they stopped the new owner from opening at that location. Unfortunately for the new owners there were no other commercial locations between the two cities so they were forced into selling that franchise back to Curves International for a loss.
It was also at this time that Curves International started to change personnel. The employee’s who we had a personal relationship with that had started Curves International with Gary Heavin were leaving the company at an alarming rate. Seven employees that were the top management of Curves left or were forced out because of Gary Heavin’s greed. They ended up filling a law suit against Curves which was later settled out of court. It was at this time that Diane Heavin became involved with Curves and a whole new history was being written about how Curves was started. The original Curves member guide which was written by Gary Heavin and June Manley was taken off the market and the new Curves book authored by of course Gary Heavin was on the top 10 of the Times best seller list.. To make sure it was on the Times best seller list all the clubs had to order at least on case. That is when we as owners realized Heavin was a manipulator and not the born again Christian he portrayed to be. It was also at this time that the price to buy a franchise more than doubled in price. This came as quite a surprise as Heavin had always maintained that he would never ever increase his franchise price and he even swore on the bible in front of a group at club camp that he would never break his word on that. Well as we all know he didn’t keep that promise for long, which just shows his greed.
At this point my wife and I became quite concerned and even considered selling our business but other problems arose concerning Curves International that demanded our full attention. In 2004 another Curves location located on our boarder of one of our metro-areas hired two of our employees and stole around 15 members from our club. Both employees had signed the anti covenant not to compete and in our state those agreements are strictly enforced by the courts. We considered going to court but since it was another Curves facility we decided to file a complaint with Curves International. And to let them handle it. What a mistake that was as they did nothing. We transferred the members files but refused to transfer the money for the members dues until such time that Curves International responded to our complaint. We were told by the area director, which was a new position at Curves International, that we were trouble makers and he refused to send any of are clubs the members appreciation bags. Shortly thereafter Curves International resold the corridor of land that had been sold back to them at a loss from the previous owners and they allowed the new owners to open up in nearly the same location that they had refuse the previous owners only a year and a half before. The new owners advertised in our area and ended up getting 10 or 11 members to transfer to their club. Again we held their monthly dues but did transfer the members files. We immediately filed a complaint but again got the same response nothing. It didn’t take long for most of the members who transferred to come back to our club as the other location was small and in a very run down area and to this day that club has not shown a profit and has been sold numerous times over the years for little to nothing.
Then in 2005 the real problems with Curves International started that we are still contending with today. In one of our metro-areas a competitor by the name of Ladies Workout Express opened up right across the street from our location. Unknown to us they had hired our manager and one other employee from that location and when the employee’s left they had stolen off our computer our member files. They ended up stealing over two thirds of our membership with in a week. The employees had signed the covenant not to compete so we immediately hired a lawyer and prepared for a lawsuit. As I stated before in our state that agreement is strictly enforced but it took four months to get it into court. During this time that location was losing so much money that we decided to move the location next to our other territory so that both clubs could stay open. We sent in the required change of location form to Curves International but never heard anything back from them so we went ahead and relocated in late 05. The owners of the Ladies Workout Express eventually went broke because of the lawsuit and the fact that they would end up owing us monetary damages. They filed for bankruptcy to prevent us from collecting any monetary awards in Dec 05 but we did have the satisfaction knowing that we did what was right
In early 06 we were informed by Curves International that because we abandon that location they were terminating all of our franchise agreements. We immediately requested mediation for all of our clubs which is authorized by our franchise agreements with Curves International. We never heard back from them so we hired a lawyer in Waco, TX to represent us. He proceeded to send them a letter requesting the same mediation process and they did respond to him. They sent him letter stating that it was premature to go through the mediation process at that time as they were in the process of researching our reason for moving. Curves International continued to debit our account for the franchise and advertising fees for all the other clubs we owned but stopped talking the fees for the one territory that they stated we abandoned. The lawyer had us send Curves International a check for the fees and a new authorization form for them to deduct it from our account. Neither our lawyer or ourselves ever heard anything back from Curves International so we all assumed that things were back to normal.
In the spring of 07 we made the decision to start selling off all of our clubs and to completely retire. It didn’t take me long to sell the club we owned that wasn’t in a metro-area and I agreed to stay with the new owner’s to help train them how to run the business. We sent all the documentation into Curves International and the sale was completed by January 08. That freed my wife and I up to concentrate on our metro-area clubs and to get them ready for sale. In Feb of 08 we heard that a Curves club was opening in one of our territories within a mile of our current club. We could not understand how Curves International could do such a thing. We again filed a complaint by phone and e-mail to Curves International and several weeks later we were informed by e-mail that they didn’t know what we were talking about. We were told we didn’t own any franchises and hadn’t since we were terminated in 05. That came as quite a shock to my wife and I as our franchise and advertising fee’s had been deducted all along from our checking account and we had just recently sold a club that they were telling us we never owned. We had a local lawyer send a letter to the new owners explaining the situation and that we would be seeking legal recourse against Curves International and depending on the outcome they were opening themselves up to a potential lawsuit. During this time we had bought and paid in full for the Smart Equipment for Curves International and were waiting for the installation which was scheduled for the June 24th. On June 20th , a Friday we received a phone message telling us that the Curves Smart Installation was canceled and that we had to call Curves legal for an explanation. We left messages both e-mail and phone every 30 minutes on Monday June 23rd and finally late in the afternoon we received an e-mail stating that one of there lawyers would be in touch with us before the end of the day, They never sent an e-mail or a phone call as was promised but by mid day the next day they did respond by e-mail. It stated because of the problems with the members transfers, the fact that we abandoned a franchise, and that we had interfered with the opening of the new franchise located in our territory we weren’t approved for the Curves Smart. Yet in late May they had sent all the promotional ad material for the Curves Smart and of course we had gone to a considerable amount of expense for training the employees, advertising and promotion of the Curves Smart equipment. It was at this point that my wife and I decided that drastic action had to be taken against Heavin and Curves International.
While we still love the concept of Curves we feel that because of the deceptive and we believe fraudulent business practices that Heavin has allowed under his management Curves will eventually end up in the toilet so to speak. After spending many hours on the internet we have found that there are many lawsuits against this man and his company. Just read some of the post’s that are on franchisepick.com from owners concerning the new ten thousand fee if your club goes under and closes to the vitamins that were sold in Feb and March by Ideas in Action at a discount to owners without telling them that they would expire at the end of May. The lack of support and communication from Curves International that all of us owners are going through is intolerable. It is impossible for an owner to get through to them on the phone and good luck if you expect a call back in a timely manor. The fact that we as owners pay a lot of money for our advertising fees and have no accounting of where it is spent and a quite frankly we never see many ads in our area.
I have taken the time to do the necessary research to find several good lawyers who handle franchise law who are more than willing to help Curves owners who are having similar problems with Curves. I for one am going to go after Curves International and Gary Heavin in a court of law. These are not class action but group action lawsuit and if you don’t understand the difference contact me and I will explain it to you. There have been over 200 such lawsuit filed against Curves in the last several years and while some have been settled in mediation others are in the process of going to litigation. If you are a past or present Curves owner who has experienced these problems and want satisfaction whether it be monetary or revenge please contact me. We have several options that we can go and I for one am positive we will win as the other lawsuits have been successful so far and have set a precedent for ours. It is time for the owners of Curves franchises either past or present to stand up together and put a stop to Heavins’s ramped destruction of peoples lives just for monetary greed.
Thanks for reading our post and God Bless you all.
ARE YOU AN CURVES FRANCHISE OWNER OR FORMER CURVES FRANCHISEE?
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CURVES FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITY?
PLEASE SHARE A COMMENT BELOW.
Not a Victim,
If you would have read all the posts on http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-overview/ you wouldn’t even make such an accusation unless you are working for CI… The problem with this franchise has been a direct result of how it has been managed (mismanaged) since 2003. You can read the reason for the law suit at http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-discussion-benefits-of-a-franchisee-lawsuit/ which should explain some of dishonest business practices that Howie has used thus causing financial hardships on the owners of a franchisee. Furthermore to my knowledge no one has ever bashed his religion as it is obvious to the majority of owners that he is not and never has been a Christian in any use of the word. His actions, behavior, and deeds have proven that time and time again. I don’t need to provide you with any examples as all owners have enough of their own real life dealings with him to know that is the truth and have voiced many of their opinions on the on http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-overview/. Now you ask what they can do to make us happy. Well funny you should ask that because as far as I’m concerned Howies options at this point are few. It is obvious that the decline of Curves will continue until either Howie sells the corporation or files bankruptcy. This scenario has been contemplated by the lawyers and litigants in most of the group action lawsuits that have been filed against Curves International and Gary Howard Havein. While I’m sure most owners don’t feel this could happen considering the amount of money generated from all the franchisee’s it is not as far fetched of an idea that one may think. First off as most people know, who have been successful at one time or another, your income is relative to your expenses. In other words as your income grows so does your standard of living and your costs usually match your income level. When income starts to drop the standard of living is usually at a fixed amount and is very hard to lower without down sizing which in most cases is very hard to do. We do know that all Curves are having a very ruff time financially and many have had to close not only in the US but all over the world and it is anticipated that many more will be closing by the first of the year. While we can argue what the reasons are for all the closes the fact remains that they are closing at an alarming rate. This has had a profound effect on the income coming into Curves International at the same time that the group action lawsuits have gained traction and are proceeding in court with court dates being set up for the trail and hundreds of individual law suits being filed and coming to an end later this year or early next. While many have been settled out of court for settlements ranging from 10,000 to 30,000 dollars the remaining litigants so far have been unwilling to settle for such low amounts and have been willing to take it all the way to trail in hopes of receiving a 7 digit award. If these lawsuits are won by the litigants, there will surly be more group action lawsuits filed as there are many franchise lawyers who are considering doing just that to get their piece of the pie. Curves International and Gary Howard Heavin’s best solution would of course be to settle these lawsuit at a lower dollar figure an impose a gage order on them so that the litigants couldn’t disclose any of the proceeding or settlement amounts. If he decides to take them all the way and loses in court his options are very limited. He could try to appeal the decision but to do so he would have to put up a cash bond in the amount of the settlement which is doubtful that he would have that much cash readily available or to file bankruptcy. If he files bankruptcy their is president in other franchise cases where the courts would take over and hire a CEO who is familiar with franchises to protect not only the rights of the litigants but of the franchisee’s.
So any franchises that are upset and haven’t filed a complaint with the BBB of both your state and TX. and the Attorneys Generals Office of both States as well as the Federal Trade Commission should do so at once. Also it wouldn’t hurt to send a complaint letter to the attorney Generals Office of NV. Since it is a Nevada corporation.
unhappy: Hoorah for you!! More feedback; all just for you! Yippee!!
How can you expect to be taken seriously?
It’s too bad that you weren’t required to pass an intelligence exam prior to purchasing your club. If you had been, you wouldn’t be in all this trouble you’re in now.
Well (Comma) well (Comma) well (Comma) Sw (Period) they (They) also say ignorance is bliss and (so) you must be one blessful (blissful) person cus (because) your ingnorence (ignorance) is overwhelming (comma) you dumb ass. Give me your club address and I’ll send you some tissue so you can wipe the shit form (from) your eyes so you will be albe (able) to see again or is it that your (you’re) blind to go along with (as well as OR in addition to) being deaf and dumb. (Question mark)
I regret my last post and I apologize to everyone here.
“Discussion is an exchange of knowledge; an argument an exchange of ignorance.”
~Robert Cuillen
why apologize sw we all know you don’t really mean it !!!!!!!
Hey sw are you a member of the CFA ? I’m running for office and I’d sure like your vote!! Can I count on it ? Maybe than you will see the cahnge we are all talking about.
Get the newist lowdown on who Howie and his friends are at this site
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-for-women-business-broker-slams-curves-franchise-and-franchisor/
Gary Heavin is an arrogant, self-serving, presumptuous, overconfident, pushy control freak. He lives his life on his terms and expects everyone else to live life on his terms too. None of these qualities necessarily make him a criminal; just a real asshole… More precisely, A REAL RICH ASSHOLE!
If a man could be sent to prison for being an arrogant, self-serving, controlling… asshole, then every major corporation throughout the world, including all government agencies from the White House down and in every country would have to shut their doors.
(Insert Name Here) is an arrogant, self-serving, presumptuous, overconfident, pushy control freak. He lives his life on his terms and expects everyone else to live life on his terms too. None of these qualities necessarily make him a criminal; just a real asshole… More precisely, A REAL RICH ASSHOLE!
If a person could be sent to prison for being an arrogant, self-serving, controlling… asshole, then every major corporation throughout the world, including all government agencies from the White House down and in every country would have to shut their doors.
I am horrified reading all of these sad stories! What an incredible mess and such unfortunate outcomes for some many people! I am truly shocked to see so many people financially ruined by this! I bought a Curves resale with a partner a couple of years ago. We have done over a year of due diligence and thoroughly researched the investment with the assistance of several experts and in the end, we were just sure we could make it.
We finished camp in Waco and shortly after that, things began to unravel. We just couldn’t seem to get ahead and out of the red. We had such high hopes to turn things around but had a very high rent which was our albatross. Members came and went but we never could get ahead. I could see this had been a mistake, at least for me. So, I sold my half of the business to my partner several months into it. I guess this was one of the smartest things I ever did!
Good luck to all of you and I hope you are successful in getting back at least some of your losses. I will pray for that!
Thank you Krista for your post and you are definately one smart women to have sold your half of the business. How is your partner doing and is she still open?
She is still open but has had it up for sale for several months now. Unfortunately, we didn’t part as friends and do not stay in touch. I know she converted to the smart system but she has to be losing alot. She bought another Curves and went smart also with it. I don’t know if going “smart” was a good decision or not. The other resale location may be making a small profit as the rent is considerable lower.
What happened to McCord? I cannot pull up their website anymore and wonder where those resales are posted now.
The curves smart was just another one of Howies ideas to make more money for himself as it does not work and was sold as new technology but in reality is over ten year old. Only about 40 percent of the clubs have smart and almost all of them complain that it has not helped at all. I don’t know what happened to McCords but will check into it and will post when I find out. Many lawsuits against them as they were fraudulently taking clubs over and selling them by having the owners singing a power of attonery over to them and the owners would receive nothing for the club, It was owned by Howie’s brother so I’m sure you get the picture.
Unbelievable!
I just went to Mc Cords site and it came up for me so try here and you should get it up. http://www.mccordbusinessbrokers.com//index.asp?choice=listing check out how many clubs are for sale for less than 10,000 and many for 1 dollar.
Hew sw where did you go? Did you crawl back into the hole you came out of ? So long good bye and God Bless
thanks unhappy, I could not get it to pull up and can now.
What do we want, Not a Victim?
We want Heavin’s money. We want our lives and peace of mind back. We want compensation. He sold far too many franchises and oversaturated the market. We want him punished financially for doing so.
THAT’S what we want.
It doesn’t appear that Not A Victim is with us any more. Obviously he, she or it couldn’t take the truth.
Krista you are one of the lucky ones that’s for sure! Smart thinking getting out in time! I am having to file bankruptcy for over 65K.. and my business partner took all of the other debt.. he unfortunately can’t file for bankruptcy.. Curves is trying to get over 60K from him… we didn’t do the Smart technology.. we could never afford it.. after gas prices started rising I had so many members quit and it just snowballed.. the town we were in was less than 8,000.. it was terrible.. I put my blood, sweat and tears into it as I know everyone has.. Curves keeps getting richer and we keep getting poorer… I feel for all Curves owners.. thank you for your prayers Krista.. we need them!
Sheila,
Sory to hear about your nighmare with curves. It sounds like your partner may have a shot at joining the lawsuit to recoop some of his losses. Remember to file complaints with the following.
http://www.bbb.org/
http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml
New post: Happy Curves franchisee speaks out
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-happy-franchise-owner-speaks-out/
South African franchise owner says franchisees should stop blaming Curves & Heavins and take responsibility for their own decisions.
Comments welcome.
Your input needed here. Please read and comment:
Top 10 Ways to Keep Franchisees Happy? Share your Thoughts
I bought a resale 2 years ago , the person that sold it to us did not give us the correct numbers on the memberships it was low but after we deleted non paying members out it was a lot lower. But we slowly brought the numbers up but as soon as you get new members 3 or 4 quit you never get ahead. We have never made a penny of profit since we bought it and I work there to save on payroll ,we have had to use our savings every month to pay the rent or something now my savings is gone we dont even have enough to pay rent for next month,our lease is up sept 09 and I think we r closing .I am very scared of what we face with CI when we tell them.
Kim don’t let it wory you as there really is nothing to be scared of. The 10,000 dollar fee is iligal for them to charge you as it is not in any of the contracts but you need to send ADMIN an e-mail at unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com requesting he send it on to unhappy and he can explain the prceeedures that you will be going through with CI and how to handle them.
If you are an owner of a curves franchise and are upset at the underhanded, unethical, immoral, and shoddy business practices of Curves International you need to go to this site http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/0/280/RipOff0280916.htm
and file a complaint. It may help someone else from making the biggest mistake of there life.
A friend and I bought a curves in a small town. From the beginning we were told untrue information from the seller. We have been struggling for almost 2 years and now we have decided to shut the doors. I might have one buyer however, I am not sure if she can come up with money. I am selling it for 1.00. I am not sure what is best. I would like more information on how to handle curves if we close our doors. thanks
I was thinking of buying a Curves until I read all of your responses. Why, if Cures is such a bad thing, has it been named “Francisor of the Year 2009”
Jennifer McTier says: I was interested in purchasing a Curves until I read some of the posts. If Curves is such a bad deal, why has it been named “Franchisor of the Year for 2009?
Jennifer McTier :
There are no valid franchise awards/rankings that we know of (Though FranSurvey.Com at one time seemed to be useful and well-intentioned). All are somehow driven by a self-serving motive. For Entrepreneur magazine, the 800 lb. gorilla of franchise rankings, it is ad sales and perpetuation of the franchise myth of great opportunities galore.
The 2009 Franchisor of the Year award was given by the AAFD (American Association of Franchisees & Dealers). This is the same organization that gave Cuppy’s Coffee – an outright scam organization – its highest accreditation and defended it despite tons of warning signs that they were pirates. Why? Because Cuppy’s was paying the AAFD. Once they stopped paying, AAFD “got religion.”
From what I understand, Curves International made a commitment to spend $250K or so funding the AAFD-sanctioned Curves franchisee association. Think that might have had something to do with it?
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-aafd-names-curves-franchisor-of-the-year/
Keep in mind that the very name of the award is deceptive. Since their awards are solely for AAFD member organizations, shouldn’t it be designated as “Franchisor AAFD Member of the Year”? The award implies they evaluated all franchisors and designated the winner as the best. In fact, the number of franchisors involved with the AAFD is quite small.
Be sure to also check out:
http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-overview/
http://www.bizzia.com/franchisepick/curves-is-franchisor-of-year-say-what/
http://www.bizzia.com/franchisepick/aafd-quietly-suspends-cuppys-franchisor-accreditation/
Jennifer,
this is truly a fake award bought and paid for by Howard Heavin. the CFA is now charging 50 for each franchise to join the association and so far only 500 clubs or so have joined which is less than 5 percent of the clubs that are left open. Look around your area and you wil see that most of the clubs have closed.
Jennifer said she was thinking about buying a Curves. I hope someone will buy my Curves franchise. Not because it is such a great thing to deal with CurvesInternational (CI) but because the Curves concept is fabulous, and the clubs themselves do a huge service in the community. I have to sell mine because of going thru bankruptcy because of closing my second club. Otherwise, I was trying to hold onto my club. I wasn’t making alot of money (about $1500/month for 50-60 hrs/week of work) but working the floor is the best job I’ve ever had, and I find the workout itself the most successful way to keep my health problems managed.
Also, I pray we’ll see an improvement in the economy soon, and I think we’re starting to see more women come back to Curves. In my market, the boycott by Planned Parenthood in 2004 (to when?) hurt us badly. I think we’re getting far enough away from it that things are starting to improve. I wish I could wait another year, because I think I will see over 500 people in my club again. But I can’t wait. I’m hoping to find someone else who can.
As far as the purposes of this website, I agree that CI (and Heavin) have been cagey at best, and selfishly have made choices that hurt many franchisees: I agree that they shouldn’t have allowed me to split my territory and open a second club in my market when I was delirious with the height of my success (about 700 members and on a fast growth curve). I also believe that his self indulgent publicity stunts, that resulted in the boycott by Planned Parenthood, were truly harmful to many of us and shouldn’t have happened or been tolerated, regardless of any of our political beliefs.
But that situation seems to be under control now, and I am putting faith into the believe that if:
we are aware of -and make allowances for- CI and Heavin’s self-interested motivations, and
we can attract more women to the benefits of our system,
then
we can be successful again with our businesses.
I know that may seem too optimistic to those who have been most harmed by CI/Heavin’s selfish choices, but I am one of the many women who really truly rely on the Curves Club to provide me with a successful way to manage my health issues and I don’t know what I could do if they all went up in smoke.
Best Wishes to all of you.
You are all a bunch of whiners
Whiners, wow…how sad…This Curve controversy is not made up. it’s true! Curves success at this point is in spite of CI and Obi-Jaun Gary- gross…that fake smile, and those flashy pearly whites, yikes!!!
Don’t call people names, especially whiners, naive, yes, or even perhaps, over excited…but whiners, not so much…
There are a lot of Curve owners that are truly suffering, financially, emotionally, and physically, and they’re all great gals…it’s sad!!!
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Just curious. What did you think of the latest fireside chat?
It is typical of howard to blame the owners so nothing was new. The controversy over the hotel booking at convention and the price is another example of how curves is ripping off the owners. It’s a shame that the members of the clubs are the one’s who are really being hurt by this crook.
Today I went into the Curves where I’m a member and found out that they are closing in a week! No more notice than that! Worse, there is a “letter” to us members that the club will STILL be taking my money this month! I’ve got a message into the NV Attorney General http://ag.state.nv.us/ since there is no way this can be legal!
Oh, the club I belong to? Who owns it? Robert Lay!!!!! That’s right THIS Robert Lay!
I wish there was a way for me to post his letter, he’s got the nerve to post all this and then charge us for our NEXT MONTH while he KNOWS he is going to be closed! My friend just paid him a month ago for the ENTIRE NEXT YEAR! I wonder if she is going to get her money back?
Thankfully, he put up his letter to us and TOLD US to search for this page!!! Otherwise we’d have had no idea where to find him. Thanks! I’ve also followed your advice and complained about YOU to Curves. None of this should have surprised us. It was only a few weeks ago that he was YELLING at a visiting member calling her a f***ing b. She had to have been 55-60!
Erasing intelligent stuff against you? How many times will I have to post this before it doesn’t “disappear”?
member:
To address your comment and your accusatory email, your comment didn’t “disappear”
The first time someone posts a comment it is held for moderation and must be approved manually. Once they have been identified as a legitimate commenter (and not one of the automated spam generators that bombard our site continuously) future comments appear immediately.
When I checked the moderation queue this morning your two duplicate comments were awaiting moderation. I approved one. Your future comments should appear immediately.
Mr. Lay has no ability to moderate or remove comments on the site. I printed his story. Other than that he has the same commenting abilities that you now do.
There are other avenues you can pursue to try to get your money. Contact your credit card company or the bank to dispute the charge. AGs in some states have escrow accounts in place to repay members of closed health clubs.
Our site is focused on the plight of people who are losing their businesses, their homes, and their retirement savings. While your $29.95 monthly fee (or whatever it is) may seem like the world to you, you are putting your message in front of people whose lives are devastated and find themselves under the weight of crushing debt from which they might not recover. While your complaint may be justified, don’t be surprised if your righteous indignation is not met with the degree of outrage you think it deserves.
Be assured, member, if you find yourself unable to comment on my site it won’t be due to Robert Lay. It will be all you.
Sean, i’ve got to disagree with your assessment here.
What’s the difference between what this person is saying and what was happening on the LA Weight Loss (or their affiliate) issues that were covered on this website. Just as in the case of those customers, they paid for ‘nutrition’ bars or whatever they were and didn’t get the product for what they paid for. In this case, Robert took the money of members when I’m sure it was known to him in some capacity that he would be closing said store.
What’s the difference between what this person is saying and what was happening on the LA Weight Loss (or their affiliate) issues that were covered on this website.
A few differences:
First, UnhappyFranchisee.com never featured LA Weight Loss. That was on FranchisePick.com which is a little more general in focus.
Second, the LAWL people lost hundreds and thousands of dollars, not $29.
But the main reason is that none of the LAWL victims sent me a flaming email ranting about how I censored & deleted their comments.
I’ve been dealing with my site being hacked for a couple of weeks now and I’m a little tired of hearing how I deleted posts and comments because of bribes, intimidation, etc. which is nonsense.
JD you know I don’t regulate comments but I might make an exception in this lady’s case. Not based on her comment but on the email I got this morning.
Sean, thank you for being a great moderator, and having this site.
Also, thank you for your perspective on the member’s situation.
re the club closing but still drafting the members dues:
I can’t speak to the laws in the state of Nevada, but generally how it works with Curves in most states is that if there is another Curves within 25 miles of the one that is closing then the member’s membership is transferred there until their committment is met.
As far as the “notice” on how soon the club is closing, I can understand why there is only a weeks notice. We had 6 days notice, from our landlord, when I closed our doors. And I know another franchisee who held on as long as she could, and sadly, the police arrived to evict her and her business. Sure, we can criticize her, or we can be compassionate. It’s always a choice.
Best wishes to all.
Wait a minute here. The member is truly misinformed and is not telling the truth. I have been trying to post the letter that was given to each member as they came in to workout since the 15th of this month. I will post it over the weekend for all to see and that should clear up any misinformation that that particular member is referring to. First off it clearly states in the letter that the fees for September will be the last fees deducted from the members account . We draft on the 5th and the 20th of each month for that particular month.. The members have the choice of either date but it is for the month’s dues for that particular month. No where did it state that we would be deducting for October. Secondly all prepaid accounts have the option to either transfer to a new club or be refunded the amount they have on their account. They were all told this and third, most of the members knew that we had been thinking of closing for months.
I would like to thank you Sean for explaining to this member that I had noting to do with deleting her post. Furthermore we are not forcing any of our members to transfer as we have given them the option of getting a travel pass and the different locations which they can go to if they decide to stay with Curves. We are not forcing any of them to continue at another club but have left it up to them to make the choice. We even explained that the monthly dues should remain the same as they were paying us if they decide to go to another facility in our area and what to do it if the new club tries to up their fee.
Robert Lay
One more thing. In her post she says we were rude to a member by calling her a f+++B. Well she is correct on that but she forgot to mention that the lady in question was a traveling member who had been told 2 months before that she was barred from our facility. The reason she was barred was because she refused to use the equipment correctly after repeatedly being warned by myself and other trainers. She also did a weird exercise on the floor like a snake near the bathroom each time she came in. We had informed her she could not user the club but continued to sneak in and on that particular Saturday I just happened to be there. I let her work out but told her before she left she was to stop at the front desk when she was done. She became verbally abusive to me and was told to leave. She refused to leave and I got up from behind the desk and went to physically throw her out. As she ran for the door she called me a pr++k and I responded by calling her a f++++++ B and that if she ever came back into our club I would have her arrested. There were no members in the club at that time but I do have a witness to the whole incident who gave his account to the police which I called. if she had stuck around she would have been arrested. So dear member who didn’t have the guts to leave her name maybe you had better get the facts straight before you post such slanderous posts.
Robert Lay
I thought long and hard today about whether or not to respond to the moderators messages. But because we were referred here by Mr. Lay and other members and friends of mine will be here, I think it’s important that I do.
After posting my original message, which appeared IMMEDIATELY at the bottom of the comments portion, I came back a few hours later to find that it was no longer there. Having gotten no notice when I posted the original (or an e-mail) stating that the post would be initially removed/held and (re)posted after approval, I attempted to re-post it twice. I received a message to the effect that I was trying to post a duplicate message. Confused, and not knowing Mr. Lay’s relation to this site, remember, (HE told us to go here so I believed him to be affiliated with it) and wondering if HE had deleted my post from HIS page, I went to the contact us link at the top of THIS page and wrote the following to the moderator in private (he chose to make it and a modified version of his response public):
Is Mr. Lay allowed to remove any intelligent comments that disagree with him? I posted the below which was promptly removed. I tried to post it again, twice, and was told it was a duplicate. If he is claiming that what I posted is untrue, if you provide me with an e-mail address to send you his letter I will gladly do so. Since I do not know your connection with Mr. Lay and due to the fact that I’ve seen the way Mr. Lay treats people in person, see below, and he knows way too much personal information about me, I have no desire to give you a phone number or my name for him to look up in his Curves records. When you read the below, you will understand why I do not trust him. You may contact me through e-mail. Thank you. Here is the message I posted, why was it removed?:
I followed that with the post you see above (which originally did NOT have the “Erasing intelligent stuff…” line, that was added to the second repost attempt in frustration). This is the response I got from the moderator:
Too Tough Gal:
Thanks for your email.
Your post wasn’t removed. The first time someone posts a comment it is held for moderation and must be approved manually. Once they have been identified as a legitimate commenter (and not one of the automated spam generators that bombard our site continuously) future comments appear immediately.
When I checked the moderation queue this morning your two duplicate comments were awaiting moderation. I approved one. Your future comments should appear immediately.
Mr. Lay has no ability to moderate or remove comments on the site. I printed his story. Other than that he has the same commenting abilities that you now do.
That being said, you have came on my website, screamed at me and made unfounded and untrue allegations about your comments being deleted. You missed or disregarded the message that said your comment was being held for moderation. Do you really think the best way to complain about someone else being ignorant and disrespectful is by being ignorant and disrespectful?
A second reason you might want to tone down your rhetoric is that our site is focused on the plight of people who are losing their businesses, their homes, and their retirement savings. While your $29.95 monthly fee (or whatever it is) may seem like the world to you, you are putting your message in front of people whose lives are devastated and find themselves under the weight of crushing debt from which they might not recover. Your righteous indignation – while perhaps warranted – might not be met with the outrage you think is deserved.
There are other avenues you can pursue to try to get your money. Contact your credit card company or the bank to dispute the charge. AGs in some states have escrow accounts in place to repay members of closed health clubs.
But be assured that if you find yourself unable to comment on my site it will be due to your disrespect and/or lack of an apology and not because of Robert Lay.
Admin
UnhappyFranchisee.com
You will note significant differences to the response he posted here for you all to read. I did not “scream” at him, nor anyone else. Even in my original post –as angry as I was – I used caps sparingly to emphasize just a few key points (perfectly acceptable when bold or italics is not available), but I don’t recall “screaming” at anyone. He also states that I sent him a “…flaming email ranting about how [he] censored & deleted their comments.” As you can see from the e-mail I sent him I neither ranted, nor flamed and I did NOT accuse the moderator of anything, I ASKED if Mr. Lay was the one who removed my comment and could do so with any comments he found not to his liking. Seemed like a fair question to me. I also did not accuse ANYONE of taking bribed! To whom was I disrespectful? To the Admin? I don’t believe so. To Mr. Lay? By stating facts about the man who is taking members’ money for services he KNOWS he will not be providing? I don’t know how to answer that, is that disrespectful? Was I “ignorant” as to what had happened? Yes, that is why I went to the contact us link – to find out. To whom do I owe an apology? To Mr. Lay? “Sorry that I complained about you taking our dues when you know you will be closed.”??
Admin, to confirm what happened to me when I initially posted (that I did not “miss or disregard” any message notifying new users that their post will be delayed) I posted a brief “test” message earlier under a new e-mail address – as before, NO WARNING appeared. I take you at your word that you believed there was one, or more accurately, that there is supposed to be one, however, that is NOT the case. Might I suggest that you do the same test so that this doesn’t happen to anyone else. I’m sorry that someone has been hacking your site, I’m sorry that anyone’s business fails, but NEITHER of those things are our fault. You frustration with your hacking problem explains your reaction. But it’s hard for us members to be sympathetic to Mr. Lay when our money is taken when it shouldn’t be. It doesn’t matter if it’s $34 or $340, if he’s not supposed to take it, he shouldn’t. As you said, you don’t know him, we do. And as a religious woman, his “God bless you all.” at the end of his story offends me knowing that just a matter of weeks back he was cursing and screaming at a lady for no good reason.
Sir, you state that you have no relation to Mr. Lay, you simply “printed his story” yet you don’t seem the least bit concerned about his actions while being overly sensitive to my statements and questions. So much so that you have threatened to not post future posts from me. When I looked through everything here I was aghast. I have to wonder, if things have been as bad as he says for as long as he says, then why no notice to us? Why take dues for AFTER he will be closed? It is not simply ONE $34 loss, but he is taking EVERYONE’S payments in September, again, I’m perfectly willing to provide you with HIS notice of this. Plus all the full year’s memberships he’s collected in the last few weeks/months. We’re not talking about a few dollars here, we’re talking about thousands. And for all those that did pay him up front for the next year, where does it leave them? He’s not saying. I work on the other side of town, so I went to a club there and asked about this and they said that Curves policy is to stop drafting 30 days prior to closing and while they will try to get my dues, they have never been able to get Mr. Lay to send money in the past. So, while I’m naturally sympathetic to all businesses suffering during these hard time – hard times for ALL of us – I’m NOT willing to accept that you, or anyone, believes it is right for Mr. Lay to take monies for services he knows full well he will not be providing. Are these other clubs going to allow us to be members without getting any money? As to one other posters comments regarding going to another Curves, Mr. Lay himself has suggested a bigger NON-Curves co-ed gym for us to go to. Surprisingly, it is located right by where his other closed club used to be. Will they accept my transfer? Will they waive my fees? Is Mr. Lay sending them my dues for September/October? Remember, all our dues are paid in advanced. So the monies he is taking today are for the NEXT month’s dues. I guess Mr. Lay is so angry with Curves that rather than have us go to another Curves, he’d rather we go to a big gym competitor. So much for his belief in the concept and concern for other small business owners.
I don’t believe that ANY of this is out of line. I don’t know if when Mr. Lay told us to come here that he thought we’d all be happy to come here and post nice things about him. My friend saved all last year a few dollars at a time to come up with the money to pay Mr. Lay for this next year, so as sorry as I may be for the business closing, I’m more sympathetic to her than him.
So, while I’m sure that if my posts do not remain, or even appear HERE, “it will be all [me]” but NOT for any of the reasons previously stated.
Member wrote: To whom do I owe an apology?
This would have been nice: I’m sorry for coming on your site and incorrectly accusing the administrator of suppressing my comments. I was angry but that was not an excuse for being a disrespectful guest. Thank you for the opportunity to post and discuss my complaint with Mr. Lay’s Curves.
“She also did a weird exercise on the floor like a snake near the bathroom each time she came in.”
I believe that exercise is called the “Howie Heavin” ;)
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If no other members were in the club, how would “member” know what lay said to a visiting member?
Maybe “member” is the 60 yr old who called Lay a “pr++k” and is mad that she can’t do her snake slither exercise in front of his bathroom anymore.
It is so sad that this loony tune is upset but she is wrong again and making false statements either through ignorance or intentional. Who knows but her payments are not deducted in advance as she states but for the month they were drawn on. She is upset for all the wrong reasons and of course we gave them the option of going to other gyms. We can only hope she continues your exercise program to relieve her of some pint up hostility. I hope she has had a great week and enjoys her new club where ever that my be.
Hey I like it the ” howie heavin ” move. When we all get him into court in March of 2010 he will be shown to be the snake that he really is!!!!!
PS RL don’t worry about some member who doesn’t even understand the way her account is drafted. Some members are truly B@@@@@@ and she is surly one.
To right the false assumption, I never said I was there for THIS particular incident, but having witnessed other occasions where Mr. Lay has erupted, we did not find it at all hard to believe when we heard about it. And therefore I tend to believe the story as we heard it rather than as Mr. Lay recounts it. The person I was talking about lives right by the club. She’s a member at the other club because she goes there on her lunch break from work! So while she is a traveler, she is also a local resident. Seriously, do you not realize that people talk? You don’t think that when the owner of a business you frequent calls someone, especially someone from the neighborhood, a fing b it isn’t going to get back to the rest of the regular customers? Are you really that naïve? You wouldn’t’ believe the stuff we’ve heard. But I’m sure there will always a good reason for him to curse and scream at customers. Good business practice I guess. Of course, none of that was the point of my initial message, but you know that. It only served as an illustration of what type of “God fearing” man Mr. Lay is and why there is no way I would be posting my name. So yes, I guess I don’t “have the guts” to tell you who I am. You are a frightening individual and I would not feel safe if I did. It’s a shame your wife could not have run the business without your involvement. She and Margaret are the reason any of us stayed despite your appearances. I’m sorry I won’t be able to say goodbye to them. When I found out what was happening I had to see for myself and was floored and after reading your note to us – but after your not too surprising actions here, I will certainly not be returning to wish them well.
But more importantly and to my actual point, no, you are stating things incorrectly with respect to how our money is handled. I joined your club mid month and paid my first month’s dues UP FRONT. Then starting the following month and every month since then you have taken money from my account. Since my initial payment was for the following 30 days, EVERY payment since then has been a payment for the NEXT 30 days too. So no, you are not taking money for September, you are taking money for September/October, just as I said. What you are claiming would only have happened if when I joined you did not take money for 60 days. That is flat out not what happened. You took it the very next month and every month since.
What you should have done was STOP taking money from anyone on the 25th of AUGUST – 1 month before closing. That way everyone would have paid you for our last month and that would be that. Instead you have stated that you will be taking money from our accounts even now, when you KNOW you won’t be opened in a week. I guess it’s easier to call me a liar and make fun of people. And you wonder why I won’t tell you who I am?