CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story
The American dream of owning your own successful business seems to be going up in smoke for a lot of the Curves Franchise owners. The story you are about to read may seem like a Steven King horror novel but it is a real story that has happened to my wife and I. To all of the past, present and future owners of a Curves franchise please take the time to read the whole story as at the end we explain what we plan to do and how you as an ex or present owner may want to get involved.
My wife and I had owned and operated our own business for over 20 years and had been very successful at doing so. While we were making a great income from our business there was something missing in our life. Neither us felt that we were contributing to society but just taking and we decided to make a major change in our life. That was when we heard about Curves for Women. It was a new franchise that only had 300 or so clubs and for the first time in years we both became excited at the prospect of actually helping people reach their goals. We bought our first club in 1997 located in a city of thirty thousand. From the first day it opened it was more successful than our wildest dreams. Not only were we making excellent money but the personal rewards helping people better their lives was a truly rewarding feeling. I can still remember as if it was yesterday the first time a Dr. of one of our members came in to check out what we were doing as he couldn’t believe the ch
anges his patient had gone through. She had gotten off her high blood medication and had lost over 40 pounds in 4 months. It was truly amazing and over the years we have seen it happen numerous times over and over.
We sold our first club in 2001 and bought two more franchises. My wife became a mentor for Curves International around this time and I was helping to sell franchise for Curves International as so many of are members wanted to own a club. It was at this time that we started to see problems arising with Curves International but we attributed it to the fast growth that Curves was going through. In 2002 we bought two more franchises but this time they were in what was called a metro-area instead of city under thirty thousand in population.
The first problem we encountered with Curves International was in early 2003. Curves sold a franchise that was a corridor of land between one of our franchise’s and the next city 8 miles from our southern boarder. It was obvious to us that the territory didn’t have the necessary population to support a facility and that Curves International was selling any location just out of greed and the fact that there were so many people who wanted a franchise. The people who bought that franchise tried to open up on our border but it had always been an unwritten but followed rule of Curves International that you open in the middle of your territory so that disputes between owners over stealing members from your territory didn’t arise. We immediately filed a complaint with Curves International and they stopped the new owner from opening at that location. Unfortunately for the new owners there were no other commercial locations between the two cities so they were forced into selling that franchise back to Curves International for a loss.
It was also at this time that Curves International started to change personnel. The employee’s who we had a personal relationship with that had started Curves International with Gary Heavin were leaving the company at an alarming rate. Seven employees that were the top management of Curves left or were forced out because of Gary Heavin’s greed. They ended up filling a law suit against Curves which was later settled out of court. It was at this time that Diane Heavin became involved with Curves and a whole new history was being written about how Curves was started. The original Curves member guide which was written by Gary Heavin and June Manley was taken off the market and the new Curves book authored by of course Gary Heavin was on the top 10 of the Times best seller list.. To make sure it was on the Times best seller list all the clubs had to order at least on case. That is when we as owners realized Heavin was a manipulator and not the born again Christian he portrayed to be. It was also at this time that the price to buy a franchise more than doubled in price. This came as quite a surprise as Heavin had always maintained that he would never ever increase his franchise price and he even swore on the bible in front of a group at club camp that he would never break his word on that. Well as we all know he didn’t keep that promise for long, which just shows his greed.
At this point my wife and I became quite concerned and even considered selling our business but other problems arose concerning Curves International that demanded our full attention. In 2004 another Curves location located on our boarder of one of our metro-areas hired two of our employees and stole around 15 members from our club. Both employees had signed the anti covenant not to compete and in our state those agreements are strictly enforced by the courts. We considered going to court but since it was another Curves facility we decided to file a complaint with Curves International. And to let them handle it. What a mistake that was as they did nothing. We transferred the members files but refused to transfer the money for the members dues until such time that Curves International responded to our complaint. We were told by the area director, which was a new position at Curves International, that we were trouble makers and he refused to send any of are clubs the members appreciation bags. Shortly thereafter Curves International resold the corridor of land that had been sold back to them at a loss from the previous owners and they allowed the new owners to open up in nearly the same location that they had refuse the previous owners only a year and a half before. The new owners advertised in our area and ended up getting 10 or 11 members to transfer to their club. Again we held their monthly dues but did transfer the members files. We immediately filed a complaint but again got the same response nothing. It didn’t take long for most of the members who transferred to come back to our club as the other location was small and in a very run down area and to this day that club has not shown a profit and has been sold numerous times over the years for little to nothing.
Then in 2005 the real problems with Curves International started that we are still contending with today. In one of our metro-areas a competitor by the name of Ladies Workout Express opened up right across the street from our location. Unknown to us they had hired our manager and one other employee from that location and when the employee’s left they had stolen off our computer our member files. They ended up stealing over two thirds of our membership with in a week. The employees had signed the covenant not to compete so we immediately hired a lawyer and prepared for a lawsuit. As I stated before in our state that agreement is strictly enforced but it took four months to get it into court. During this time that location was losing so much money that we decided to move the location next to our other territory so that both clubs could stay open. We sent in the required change of location form to Curves International but never heard anything back from them so we went ahead and relocated in late 05. The owners of the Ladies Workout Express eventually went broke because of the lawsuit and the fact that they would end up owing us monetary damages. They filed for bankruptcy to prevent us from collecting any monetary awards in Dec 05 but we did have the satisfaction knowing that we did what was right
In early 06 we were informed by Curves International that because we abandon that location they were terminating all of our franchise agreements. We immediately requested mediation for all of our clubs which is authorized by our franchise agreements with Curves International. We never heard back from them so we hired a lawyer in Waco, TX to represent us. He proceeded to send them a letter requesting the same mediation process and they did respond to him. They sent him letter stating that it was premature to go through the mediation process at that time as they were in the process of researching our reason for moving. Curves International continued to debit our account for the franchise and advertising fees for all the other clubs we owned but stopped talking the fees for the one territory that they stated we abandoned. The lawyer had us send Curves International a check for the fees and a new authorization form for them to deduct it from our account. Neither our lawyer or ourselves ever heard anything back from Curves International so we all assumed that things were back to normal.
In the spring of 07 we made the decision to start selling off all of our clubs and to completely retire. It didn’t take me long to sell the club we owned that wasn’t in a metro-area and I agreed to stay with the new owner’s to help train them how to run the business. We sent all the documentation into Curves International and the sale was completed by January 08. That freed my wife and I up to concentrate on our metro-area clubs and to get them ready for sale. In Feb of 08 we heard that a Curves club was opening in one of our territories within a mile of our current club. We could not understand how Curves International could do such a thing. We again filed a complaint by phone and e-mail to Curves International and several weeks later we were informed by e-mail that they didn’t know what we were talking about. We were told we didn’t own any franchises and hadn’t since we were terminated in 05. That came as quite a shock to my wife and I as our franchise and advertising fee’s had been deducted all along from our checking account and we had just recently sold a club that they were telling us we never owned. We had a local lawyer send a letter to the new owners explaining the situation and that we would be seeking legal recourse against Curves International and depending on the outcome they were opening themselves up to a potential lawsuit. During this time we had bought and paid in full for the Smart Equipment for Curves International and were waiting for the installation which was scheduled for the June 24th. On June 20th , a Friday we received a phone message telling us that the Curves Smart Installation was canceled and that we had to call Curves legal for an explanation. We left messages both e-mail and phone every 30 minutes on Monday June 23rd and finally late in the afternoon we received an e-mail stating that one of there lawyers would be in touch with us before the end of the day, They never sent an e-mail or a phone call as was promised but by mid day the next day they did respond by e-mail. It stated because of the problems with the members transfers, the fact that we abandoned a franchise, and that we had interfered with the opening of the new franchise located in our territory we weren’t approved for the Curves Smart. Yet in late May they had sent all the promotional ad material for the Curves Smart and of course we had gone to a considerable amount of expense for training the employees, advertising and promotion of the Curves Smart equipment. It was at this point that my wife and I decided that drastic action had to be taken against Heavin and Curves International.
While we still love the concept of Curves we feel that because of the deceptive and we believe fraudulent business practices that Heavin has allowed under his management Curves will eventually end up in the toilet so to speak. After spending many hours on the internet we have found that there are many lawsuits against this man and his company. Just read some of the post’s that are on franchisepick.com from owners concerning the new ten thousand fee if your club goes under and closes to the vitamins that were sold in Feb and March by Ideas in Action at a discount to owners without telling them that they would expire at the end of May. The lack of support and communication from Curves International that all of us owners are going through is intolerable. It is impossible for an owner to get through to them on the phone and good luck if you expect a call back in a timely manor. The fact that we as owners pay a lot of money for our advertising fees and have no accounting of where it is spent and a quite frankly we never see many ads in our area.
I have taken the time to do the necessary research to find several good lawyers who handle franchise law who are more than willing to help Curves owners who are having similar problems with Curves. I for one am going to go after Curves International and Gary Heavin in a court of law. These are not class action but group action lawsuit and if you don’t understand the difference contact me and I will explain it to you. There have been over 200 such lawsuit filed against Curves in the last several years and while some have been settled in mediation others are in the process of going to litigation. If you are a past or present Curves owner who has experienced these problems and want satisfaction whether it be monetary or revenge please contact me. We have several options that we can go and I for one am positive we will win as the other lawsuits have been successful so far and have set a precedent for ours. It is time for the owners of Curves franchises either past or present to stand up together and put a stop to Heavins’s ramped destruction of peoples lives just for monetary greed.
Thanks for reading our post and God Bless you all.
ARE YOU AN CURVES FRANCHISE OWNER OR FORMER CURVES FRANCHISEE?
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CURVES FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITY?
PLEASE SHARE A COMMENT BELOW.
Fitdude, And a 50-60 y/o can only lift so much. Or run so fast. Or walk so far. The same can all be said for a 20-30 or 30-40 y/o. Which of course was one of my points, no regimen is without its limits. There is ALWAYS going to be SOME limiting factor(s). You just need to decide what your goal is and find the plan with the factor(s) that limits you the least. And NO PROGRAM is a “catch all”.
I agree with you that there are limits, I said so in both my posts, BUT, the limit here is actually tied to the benefit. As I stated, since a person doing this type of program would NOT be looking to “bulk up” any increase in weight (resistance) would be tied to an increase in reps. That is exactly what “non-adjustable” hydraulic cylinders do, in order to increase your weight (resistance) you HAVE TO increase your reps. What phil deems as a fatal flaw is actually an integral part of the program. Think of it like a governor on a U-Haul truck. It stops you from going over 65mph (limiting you) but it does so to keep you (and others) safe (benefit). Now if you were trying to gain mass you would want to look at a program the would allow you to add resistance (weight) without tying it to increased reps. But that is NOT what this type of cylinder and program is designed to do. So criticizing it for not doing what it’s not trying to do is just plain silly. It’d be like taking that U-Haul on the quarter mile and complaining because you lost the race!
I get that folks here are angry with the people running Curves, but as I said in my initial e-mail, “hate the player, not the game”. You may agree with what I’m saying but phil clearly does not. He said and then said again in his response that neither reps nor resistance changes when using this type of hydraulic cylinder. That is patently false.
Den,
I wasnt saying that the hydraulic is limited to water aerobics. You are missing my point. Curves is a fixed design. There is no GPO with this program whatsoever. How long have you been doing this??
My point is that the workout is limited and if you are going to sit here and tell me that machines are adjustable you are not seeing reality!
How hard can a 60 year old women push?
the limiting factor is usually the person, In THIS case the limited factor is the machine. By pusing faster it does produce more force yes, it does. Im not disagreeing with you.
So Den, let me get this stragiht, you believe that having no adjustable equipment is part of the program?
LEt me ask you then, why, the original equipment , PACE exercise group is adjustable??Do you know how many people have been injured because they are FORCED to use a machine that they can’t adjust for their limb length?? So they dropped out? yet this is part of the design?!? Do you know anything about biomechanics???To even make that statement is nonsense.
The non adjustable factors here have nothing to do with women gaining size. Most women dont get big. They dont ahve enough testerone to get big! You do see larger women, but in general, they dont get bulky..
There is some added resistance here with hydraulics, but in order to GET to that added resistane you need to push pretty dam hard and for a 50+ year old women, it can be tough.
Den, why is it that people have gotten in great shape using free weights and traditional cardio equipment? The limitation is always the person. But in the curves system its the machines.
We had a someone come into my club to do the bicep tricep, which is more like hammer curl than a bicep curl. Regardless,the womens arms were too short to fit into the machine correctly and it didnt feel right. It hurt. So she has to skip it because her arms are too short, but THIS is part of the program you are telling me??
I agree with you as a whole, but disagree with the adjustable statement.
Oh and Den, explain to me why pace is adjsutable and curves isnt when pace is the original, dude you have your facts ROYALLY screwed up with thie adjustbility or clearly know nothing about biomechanics..
HAve you personally ever trained anyone??
HAve you ever told someone to just sit in a seat that was not designeg for him or her because, maybe she was too tall or too short??but this is part of the design, that the machine wont adjust to your height in any way..
any ordinary macine in a gym will adjust to the taller or shorter person, but curves doesnt so this is part of the design?
do you know how many women have been hurt forcing their bodies into fixed length machines that were too short for their bodies?? do me a favor, before you make a statement like the flaw is actually part of the program read a bit about bimechanics..
curves or PACE was designed to get overweight women from the house, on the couch to a basic exercise program.
THATS IT! are you going to argue that too?
And I did agree wtih our initial statement, more resistance if you push super hard…
Anyway, have a good one.
Phil
Again, I’ll address the relevant bits and leave the other stuff to someone else. How long have I been doing this? While my qualifications will not change the laws of physics, I’ve been a doctor for 20 years and my expertise is specifically in the field of biomechanics. I work with injured and FIT individuals. Whoops. And you?
I’ll start with these statements first: “There is some added resistance here with hydraulics, but in order to GET to that added resistane you need to push pretty dam hard…” and “And I did agree wtih our initial statement, more resistance if you push super hard…”
That was neither MY premise nor my statement and neither one is accurate. That was your statement I guess and your misunderstanding of how hydraulic resistance works; which is where you’ve been wrong from the get go. It’s NOT pushing HARDER that creates more resistance, it’s pushing FASTER that creates more resistance which in turn causes you to push harder. THE KEY here is that you don’t have a greater resistance UNTIL you can increase the reps. PERIOD. If you don’t (won’t) understand even that critical difference, than nothing else matters. If you are going to insist that 1 + 1 = 3 we can’t move on. However, for the benefit of others who can see past their rage against Curves, I’ll try to explain. For you Phil, unless you are willing to except the basic laws at work here, there really isn’t anything else I can do to educate you so stop reading now.
“I wasnt saying that the hydraulic is limited to water aerobics. You are missing my point.”
No, you didn’t say it is limited to water aerobics. But I didn’t say you did. What you DID say was “Ever do resistance training in a pool with paddles? Thats the same level of resistance that you’ll get with hydraulics.” And THAT is completely false and I told you why.
Let me be clear and for the 4th or 5th time – I never said that the equipment was adjustable. In that message you stated at least 3 or 4 times that I said that non-adjustable hydraulic cylinders are adjustable (and I’m not even including your out of left field stuff stating that I said all that about limb/height adjustments). What I said, and stand by, is that the RESISTANCE changes with change in velocity. It HAS TO. I can be NO OTHER WAY. Seriously, please, stop asking me to justify/back-up statements and claims that YOU are making! I can’t do it, I don’t think anyone can. But I can back up my statements, Google “hydraulic resistance in a container” or some variety of that and I’m sure you will see for your own eyes that equations that govern this.
I don’t care what PACE originally wanted to do. But if you do care, I suggest you REALLY look at what their ORIGINAL equipment was. Their current system is vastly different to what they started with. But I guess that’s OK right? Again, I’m not debating you on “Curves”. You made patently false comments with respect to the usefulness and design of non-adjustable hydraulic resistance equipment. THAT is what I am addressing. Further statements that I didn’t make: ALL your stuff regarding adjustability for height/limb length. What does ANY of that have to do with MY correcting you on your misunderstanding on how hydraulics work? But, since you are throwing a new item into the mix and are stuck on PACE equipment as the be-all-end-all, with few exceptions PACE equipment is no more nor no less adjustable for limb length than most other equipment like this. Proper positioning of the user on the equipment is critical and nearly identical on them all. But again, not what we were discussing. Shall we discuss padding thickness next? Would you like to accuse me of arguing that leather is a better covering than vinyl or vice versa?
If no one was to take a good idea and make it better, we’d all be driving Fords and taking one type of antibiotic. Get over it already. PACE makes a good system, but it’s NOT the only system and just because something isn’t PACE doesn’t mean it’s crap. And likewise, (and here is YOUR blind spot) just because Curves uses stuff that the rest of us use doesn’t mean it’s crap either. By that “logic” anyone using running squares is using crap too. I don’t know what else they do there, but I stretching OK? Can I recommend proper hydration? My point here is, and has been throughout, that you need to get over your hatred for these people and see that even if they stole everything they use and some of the stuff they use is improperly implemented, that that doesn’t mean EVERYONE else using similar stuff is wasting their time or can’t do SOMETHING ELSE with it.
1. “any ordinary macine in a gym will adjust to the taller or shorter person, but curves doesnt so this is part of the design?”
2. “curves or PACE was designed to get overweight women from the house, on the couch to a basic exercise program. THATS IT!”
3. “are you going to argue that too?”
The “too” in statement 3 assumes that I made statement 1. I did not. Also, with statement 2 you are yet again assuming that I am doing anything other than correcting your misunderstanding of how hydraulic resistance changes or that I wish to debate you on the value of Curves. I am not and do not wish to. And as I said before, just because Curves or PACE designed their regimen to do one thing doesn’t mean that EVERYONE ELSE can’t do something else with similar equipment. Can free weights ONLY be used to build mass? Can swimming ONLY be used for rehabilitation? Can steroids only be used to hit home runs?
I don’t know how many people are “forced” to do anything in a gym, so no, I can’t tell you how many have then been injured as a result of that. Can you? I’m mean actual numbers, not another guess.
Man, this is fun. Thanks stumbleupon!
Glad your having fun but the real question is have you personally been ripped off by Curves International and the crook Gary Howard Heavin? If you have and want to know what legql steps to take send an email to Sean at this site and he will forward it to me and I will be in touch with you quickly.
I’m glad I came across this site today. I’m a new, and excited, member of our local Curves. I’ve never looked forward to exercise until Curves. I know the owner wants to sell her franchise, although I don’t know 100% why. In part it’s because she works another full-time job. I’m rather upset that that detail wasn’t told me when I signed up as a member, but so be it now. I’ve been toying with looking into buying it, but now I’m putting the brakes on that possibility big-time since I’ve read of all the troubles. I’d been doing some homework and knew that there has been “some” kind of trouble surrounding Gary Heavin, but it wasn’t really until I reached this site that I learned just what the problem is. Based upon the economy and the financial problems that CI has, or will have, I’m concerned that my location won’t last. That’ll hurt me as a member but not at all as it would if I were the franchisee. I’m SO sorry for all of you hardworking owners seeing your dreams dashed and money gone. I wish you much luck on bringing the truth forth through your legal actions. And thank you for allowing me to clue in before I did something I’d probably regret.
Norma, Be real glad you found this web site. I don’t know where you are located but DO NOT consider this. Either the owner of your Curves really does not know whats going on in the CI world or she knows and wants to bail and give someone else the headaches. I just closed my club last Friday. It was like losing someone to death. I put my heart and soul into my business, loved my girls who were loyal all 7 years but Curves would not budge and change me to a percentage rate without me signing another contract, NOT!!! I did not know what was going on in the CI world until I had to make the difficult decision to close as I had not heard from anyone from CI in over 7 years. Their money was there to take so they were happy.
I gogled for someone who had closed to help me and I found the horror stories. I was done no matter what after that. I believe in the concept but I can not continue with a company that has done terrible things to people who truely care about women health and a company I can not believe in. I too, I’m afraid am in for a real bumpy ride from CI but i will ride the waves with all the dignity and grace as possible. I am not a product of them as I refused to sell my franchise to a perspective buyer that heard I was closing, stopped and asked about my club. I could never do that to someone knoowing what I know now. Do yourself a favor and if you see the word franchise, run as fast as you can the other way.
Den
there is no point in arguing with you..you are a doctor, im a trainer. We have different perspectives about fitness..and I hate to break the news to you, but I took courses specifically in water fitness and the resistance is exactly the same..
but I guess the guy who has 3 PH’ds that taught the course doesnt know as much as Den..
My statements werent false..and yes you are a doctor, what KIND of doctor? Medical doctor?
I guess you know more than veteran trainers in the fitness industry since you are a DOCTOR!
By the way, you sound like like a real asshole, did I tell you THAT part?
There is no GPO with the curves system whatsoever! After about 4-6 weeks the woman will plateau and theres it nothing that the curves system can do. But they dont tell you that.
This is a horrendus franchise to have invested in. No corporate support and nothing but lies.
den if you are so dam intelligent being a DOCTOR and all why did you come up with the idea??
or why didnt you steal the idea and market the hell out of it making it seem wonderful?
Den,
by the way in a traditional gym, you are never forced to fit into a machine like you are in a curves machine..
the curves answer is “:skip it”
Is anyone out there a Curves owner that has had to close from New York State? If so would you please let me know. I would like to talk to you if possible. Tahns for your help.
There are quite a few from NY. Send an email to Sean requesting him to forward it to me and I will try to set you up with NY owners,
This was posted on another site complaining about Phil’s post on that site and while I have refused to respond on that particular site I thought it would be a good one here as Ken Forms is obviously reading this site as well. At the end you can read our thoughts about this jerk and the way he conducts business.
“Major lawsuit in march by curves owners vs ci”
“Is there a billion dollar lawsuit with heavin and previous passed off owners in march?”
Ahhh…. And there it is. VERY subtle. I wondered what he was looking for here since it didn’t appear he was really looking for answers to his leading questions. We should have guessed: he’s looking to drum up business for the lawsuit. Gee, you aren’t a potential litigant now are you?
http://www.unhappyf ranchisee. com/curves- robert-lays- story/
Full disclosure: I’ve made it publicly clear before, there is no love lost between Robert Lay and myself. While I can’t attest to the validity of the rest of his “story”, I can state for certain that what he says about us is utterly false. My wife owns the club which Robert *claims* opened in his territory less than a mile from his existing club. In reality, we were opening in his FORMER territory which he abandoned well over four years ago (final disposition with Curves was in December 2005) – he closed his abandoned club leaving him with his club on the main street bordering the two territories. Also, we didn’t open within one mile of his club, we are well inside OUR territory and 2.6 miles from his (now closed) club because Curves would only approve a location at least that far from him – meanwhile his club was literally right on the territorial border. Nice. Prior to and since opening Robert has: made harassing calls to my wife (though he never returned any of MY calls, hmmmm…), he came into our club during construction yelling at the contractors/ workers there that this was “his territory” and an “illegal build…everyone was going to [get arrested]”, he’s never sent a dime for any pre-pay transfers we’ve gotten, he has drafted members for MONTHS after transferring despite receiving HAND CARRIED and signed for transfer requests, now, according to some of our new transfers, he even drafted accounts just days before closing in September 2009 and to my knowledge has not sent on any funds for ANY of his prepaid transfers that went to surrounding clubs (just spoke with one) when he closed – BTW, he gave out and posted a notice to his members that in part told them to go to Fitness 19 (so much for “helping” out “other owners” eh?), in the same notice he appears to accuse one of the two local Smart clubs of “illegal” and “unethical” billing practices and that “[they] charge $39 to all members who transfer…it is illegal and unethical for them to do so.” (n.b. neither of us, and to my knowledge no one in the valley, charges $39 for CD membership (smart or other)), right after we opened he even had his lawyer draw up and send papers threatening to drag us into court for opening our club, then he accused me of “slander and libel” asking that I be removed from THIS site for posting such scurrilous messages like this:
the list goes on and on, (FYI, ALL this is documented with statements from those involved to cover my ass) but you get the idea and all of this along with other stuff that has happened to myself and other owners is why we now have cameras at our club pointing out and we document EVERY conversation/ e-mail/piece of mail/fax/etc… that goes to them or is about them.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again, MANY people got screwed and have been mistreated by CI, but I can’t see how anyone would want these people “leading their charge” representing their “side”.
First off the territory in question was never abandoned by us and both Ken Forms and his wife were fully aware of that long before they tried to buy that franchisee from Curves International. There is a law suit at this time concerning that franchise territory that has been filed in the courts in Waco TX. that is working its way through the legal system which our attorney fully expects to win or they wouldn’t have taken it on contingency. His club, furthermore is way less than 1 mile from our location for that territory on Ann Road and we certainly did go to his club when the build out was being done and put a delay on construction for over 30 days. Our lawyer’s in Las Vegas could have gotten a restraining order stopping it from even opening if we had put up a retainer of 15,000 dollars which we decided not to do as our fight at that time as well as now is with Curves International for selling that territory which was still in mediation allowed by our contract with Curves International. We closed our Club on Craig Road at the end of September and most certainly did charge members for that month. Our billing cycle was always on the 5th and the 20th so once again Kenny doesn’t have his facts correct. Now he states that we sent members when we closed to Fitness 19. Once again he should get his facts straight before he makes outlandish statements such as that. In the letter we sent out to all members we listed all health clubs in our area including his club and gave them the option of going and checking them all out before they made a decision on where to go. So far 99 percent of the members that have transferred to another club have gone to the club that was on our western border not to Kenny’s club. But that certainly doesn’t surprise us at all because even his members complain that his wife is such a bitch she won’t even let members chew gum and workout at the same time. Than he states that he has installed cameras to protect him from all the stuff that has happened to him. He is obviously referring to the smash and grab burglaries in the past where his computers were stolen and his house burglaries where everything was stolen when he was in Ireland. Gee Kenny maybe it’s because you have bad karma. Why not tell us all about how you lost your clubs in Ireland? Maybe its just another example of your bad luck or karma? I guess you just don’t get it do you Kenny? What you put out in life you get back 2 fold and your chickens are just now coming home to roost. You know it is well known that your members can’t stand your wife as she is such a bitch that she won’t even let members chew gum and workout at the same time.
Now I don’t know who Phil is but you are right on one thing Kenny I am leading the charge against Curves International and support all the lawsuits group action and individual. I have helped over 1000 owners close their Curves and avoid the illegal and quite ridiculous charges that Curves International has tried to intimidate owners into paying. I have worked with 60 minutes to do a documentary on the fall of Curves International which is planned to air sometime after the first of the year and I’m sure you are going to love that program as you, Kenny and your wife, Mary, will be featured on it as well. Oh and by the way Kenny when our lawsuit is over with Curves International and we win we will be coming after you and Mary so we will see you in court in the not to distant future. That’s a promise not an idle threat.
I’m going to at least give this guy credit for posting this website that people could link to, since you didn’t feel it necessary to tell us which forum this came from.
The fact that you found a lawyer to take the case on contingency doesn’t necessarily mean that they think they will win in court, they may like the idea of a settlement. I’m sure if they could get a settlement of $20mil and take their 30% cut, they would make back the time that they put into the case at this point. Lawyers take contingency cases all the time in the hopes that the other side would rather pay a settlement than spend additional attorney fees.
Also, I’m assuming that the case that is talked about is Momentum Marketing v Curves, since it seems to be the largest case in their 2008 UFOC. If that’s the case, Gary was dismissed as a defendant according to what I read.
I’m sure Phil knows the web site and of course so does Kenny but just for your information it was the Yahoo group curves owners site that all owners should belong to even if they are lurkers as they call them on that site. You are right in the statement “The fact that you found a lawyer to take the case on contingency doesn’t necessarily mean that they think they will win in court, they may like the idea of a settlement” but it usually means that you have a pretty good case that they feel if it went to court you would win. Obviously the lawyers would almost always take a settlement if the dollar amount was sufficient No our case is not the Momentum Marketing case mentioned in the UFOC. Ours wasn’t filled until around March of this year. the UFCO doesn’t even list all of the suits filled but you can get a full listing of the suits by using a PACER search and for $2.50 you can read and copy all the court documents on each case and there are quite a few filled just this year. here is a site you can go to see some of them but again I have found it not to be totally accurate
http://dockets.justia.com/search?q=Curves+International%2C+Inc.
im skimming over this story here, but if someone believes that corporate wouldnt open a club near another or resell a once live club, not defunct is ignorant.
Corporate tried to sell a territory less than 1.5 miles from us. They didnt know what the area was, and if they did they wouldnt open there. It was not a safe area at all..BUT corporate didnt care..
they saw an opportunity to sell a territory and they heard about it..
I dont think actually did open it, but the intention was there!
Read the story at the top of the page and you will get the drift of how crooked not only Howie is but some of his franchise owners as well!!!!!
Need that list of NY owners ASAP. No much longer to decide what I want to do. Would like to notify a few. Thanks
At the curves convention Heavin had the audacity to state the following:—–”
Lawsuits: Law firm trolled, finding unhappy franchisees who paid them $6k each. He showed a video narrated by Joan Rivers of the lawyers humongous home, luxury cars (Brantley’s and more), the wife’s closet [Which may be bigger than some of our homes]
Curves has won every significant motion. A California judge threw out of court. Only half of plaintiff’s remain. All courts moved jurisdiction to Texas, so all cases will be tried there. “We will not be bullied or intimidated through extortion.”________
This man Howie is incapable of telling the truth. No one has had to pay 6K to join any of the law suits and they have lost every major and minor motion in the court nad have only been able to prolong the trials by delaying them. This man can use the excuse that he wont be intimidated and bullied through extortion and yet that is how he has tried to run his business. Do I need to give examples such as the closing fee, mutual release form which isn’t, and the equipment not being owned by the owners, etc etc etc . this man needs to find Christianity and be put in jail along with his wife.
Hi tickedoff,
send an email with your phone number and e-mail address on it to unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com requesting Sean to forward it to me and I will put you in touch with someone that can help you.
Curves International is responsible. I shouldn’t have to compete with another Curves location 3 miles down the road, on the same street. Who does that?
We couldn’t agree more. San Francisco is only about 47 sq. miles total, and Curves International sold 15 franchises in that area. We were all a little more than a mile apart from each other. We share the same stories as those above — lost large amounts of money (and time), bankruptcies, etc., which led to the majority of clubs eventually closing their doors. There are now only 4 clubs left. There was no way we all could have competed in a market where neighboring clubs were a mere five-minute drive away from each other. All this created was a lot of clubs with huge city rents and small memberships — effectively emptying our pockets and filling the bankrolls of the Heavins and Curves International.
Listen people, I have been in the fitness industry for over a decade. Not a ton of time, but more than just a few years.
CI got greedy and aw oppiortunity to make money, their bottomline and they are now on their way out.
We were struggling like many other clubs in the country about 6 months ago to retain members. So what does CI do?
They did a search for my area and saw some territory that was not inhabited by a curves so they attempted to actually research the area and with the intent of opening another club about 10 minute from me. I dont think they actually did but they were looking to.
I wrote a rather nasty and direct email to someone at corporate, dont recall their name telling them that clubs are struggling so you are contemplating opening another club and killing the existing clubs that are already injured?
Their ARROGANT response..”We are in the business of selling franchsies, nothign else.”
In the year 2009 they have, what 5000 clubs and more closing daily.
I joined a yahoo list serv and expressed my utter disgust with corporate. NOT with the workout!
After spending a substantial amount of money on the business, whether it was advertising, or products to help the business we end up with a business that has gone from 795 to just under 600. Now many tell me that I shhould be grateful for having 500+ members. I never said I wasnt grateful, but my grip is WHY doesnt corporate advertise??
heavin can certainly talk about his private jet and his mansion at club camp which in my opinion is not a place for that to be discussed. Yet when clubs are starving for members and he talks about things like that makes me mad.
He has LIED directly to us at club camp when he said, expect agressive marketing on TV.
Of the 690 women in my club, NOT ONE ever says I saw a curves ad. Whether its is a guest or a current member, neither ever says that!
We pay ex amount of dolars for advertsing and yet get zero out of it.
Curves moto back a few years was to be the McDonalds of fitness center. They did that and they forced a situation where cannibalism basically occured.
We fought each other for members.
The sad truth is that Heavin and his goons down in waco do a good job of pr. A great job of pf. He has managed to brainwash so many people into believieng his crap its sad…
people really are dumb!
Then he goes onto to market curves smart recently. Curves smart DOES motivate and keep the women interested. It is interesting to see caloric expenditure and what not. However this technology has not helped clubs retain members.
Curves needed a new idea, something to bring life back to a stale idea…and curves smart was that attempt.
Apparently while it helps and the ladies love it, it didnt do a dam thing to help membership grow.
Being part of a co-op Ive recieved numerous club closing emails in the past few months and those clubs HAD CURVES SMART.
There are three problems on the corporate level that will eventually lead to the demise or curves..if not the demise, the shrinking..major shrinking..
1. Any successful business man, or CEO doesnt have his family running the business. Of all the business courses I took in college, this was always frowned upon. You just DONT DO IT! Even in a small family business it can be bad.
2. Super fast growth only to take a nose dive a decade later.
3. Lack of ADVERTISING to where curves market will likely go to see the ad! They took the cheap way out with ads. Ads need to be multi faceted approach. Tv, online, radio maybe… not just one method. Since when does just ONE ad method do the trick? rarely..
I dont wish harm upon anyone ever. However, I do think certain people that mislead and lye and backstab like heavin or someone like bernie madoff needs to be brought down. Madoff Was. Now its time for heavin to pay the price.
IT is painful to see people pour their live savings into their dream business opportunity only to walk away and write it off as a loss because corporate turned its back.
CI should be ashamed of itself. Someone needs to expose them and quick! They are already on a decline…might as well be honest with the people and just put a nail on the coffin..
I own a club presently and Im saying this because the way things are, I dont kow if I will own a club in the next 6 months!
while the above post is nice it was not written by unhappy
to the anonymous CI employee,
your honesty is appreciates, Lord knows or company is anything but. I know how it is to be in the position to say ,” hey I just work here.” and not really have anything to do with CI’s crap.
Thanks for posting and being honest. Its very apparent and quite frankly, down right scary!
all of these posting here, even dating back to 07 are MORE than valid and just, but it blows my mind how people can STILL cheer for CI??
What gives?? seriously. I mean Ive heard that people can be dumb, but my goodness people, do you like getting it shoved to you and smiling about me??
do you like being walked to the execution chamber and being happy about it (unless you are mentally ill that is)???
After the expose comes out do you really think curves will be around and who in their right mind will want to join? Oh and remember don’t chew gum and work out as you may get expelled. At least form hairy’s club oh I mean marys club.
what kind of exposure is this going to be and on what station?
who is this guy in the above post as it is not unhappy don’t use my call name the real unhappy not the imposter
thank you for changing your post to unhappy 2 but maybe you should post under a different name to stop the confusion —-thanks
Sorry about that unhappy…where are located and are you having issues too?
I own a curves and am too struggling to get by… I have owned for 1 1/2 now and making no profit. I would like to close the doors but don’t want to dissapoint my members, but it may be my last resort. What will be the closing costs or penalty for breaking franchise contract. Please email me.
Just a lot of idle harassment and intimidation so when k you get to the closing stage send an email to Admin the moderator at unhappyFranchisee[at]gmail.com and have him forward it to me and I will give you some advise on what to expect and how to handle it. the real unhappy who is getting happier every day
Wow, after reading through so many posts, SO much needs clarification. (No, I don’t work for CI). I do feel sympathy for everyone who has been screwed over, and know the 10,000 closing fee is totally ridiculous, and illegal. But still:
1) Curves smart is not manufactured in Mexico, it’s manufactured in Ontario, at the same facility where you call for technical support. (Franchise owners from Ontario can back this up). The inventor is a man named Reed Hanoun, not Gary Heavin.
2) As business owners, how can you not understand that Curves is out to sell franchises? That’s it, bottom line. It’s a big corporate structure, NO corporation really cares about the little guy, and of course their contracts will do everything to get money out of you, just as almost any franchise does. While that doesn’t excuse them from not advertising on your behalf, how could you buy into something that markets itself as “the McDonalds” of fitness, and NOT expect over saturation? Ever been on a street with like 7 McDonald’s? I have!
3) If you live in a town with less than 10, 000 people, how did you expect this to go well in the long term? If the town doesn’t have a high turn-over rate in the population, you have no new feed of new members. Plus you have to factor in that even so-called “potential” members may not be into fitness and will never walk through that door!
4) Mytrak makes CurvesSmart. But Curves owns the CurvesSmart name, so yes you can get the Mytrak system for other places, it just won’t be called CurvesSmart, it will be called Mytrak.
5) Mytrak is a separate entity from Curves, meaning that if Curves makes it that the equipment is not adjustable, how can the CurvesSmart possibly be adjusted to the equipment? This is Curves’ fault.
6) Curves is not right to pressure owners to get the CS system, however, if you did get it, it’s to benefit your members, you can’t possibly blame mytrak that installing CS didn’t bring you more members. You fell for Curves hype.
7) Again, I sympathize, but from a business perspective, of course Curves is going to try to suck money out of you when you’re failing, because if you’re failing, so are they, as any business would do, they are going to try to keep money, as that member claims Robert is doing.
8)I understand the frustration and financial undoings of many people here, and don’t agree with Curves, or what they’re doing to their franchisees. However, when a member is complaining that they feel mistreated (whatever the case may be here) everyone gangs up on her, and says “so what, what’s your piddly amount of money to people in real debt. You concerns are invalid” So how is Curves supposed to feel for you, when that’s how you feel about people being hurt by your business closure? $30 or whatever may seem like nothing to do when you’re in 60g’s of debt, but maybe for someone else that’s a few meals or something.
9) Sometimes you walk into the tiniest Curves ever, and while they’re cute, would you pay roughly $30 per month for a facility like that, when you can be involved with places that offer way more for the same amount?
9) If this member was billed for the month ahead as she says, then how is it NOT taking money from her? If she is in fact mistaken on the billing cycle, why doesn’t anyone clarify?
10) This is supposed to be a forum for discussion, but when anyone says anything that isn’t 100% anti-curves, people are resorting to name calling!
11) Re-read Den’s posts for how hydraulics work, and how you won’t just plateau. ie. If a 60 year old woman can only move so fast, she would have plateau’d anyway! If you’re a trainer reading this, you couldn’t have expected a limited circuit to continue to help someone for all time. Eventually they would need to change styles, change exercises etc. to continue to see results.
12) Curves was marketed to women to run their own business with no business training. Big mistake on Curves’ part (or good sell, depending on how you look at it) but even bigger mistake on the buyers parts. What made you think you could run a successful, functioning business, with no business training, on a model that markets itself as TRYING to saturate the market…..it just blows my mind over and over! Even without Curves the fitness market is largely saturated!
13) If you treat people like babies while they’re working out (not allowed to chew gum??? Grade school anyone?) then don’t be surprised if members don’t come back. The way you treat your customers, and customer service is almost all that counts in industry anymore.
Not trying to step on anyone’s toes, but before signing my life away on a contract, I would read it over, with a lawyer, and know every damn facet before I agree to anything. That being said, good luck with your lawsuit, Curves is illegally charging you closing fees, and not holding up their end of the contract, through lack of advertising, and putting people too close together despite territory rules, and making you sell things that do not benefit your franchise, but only Curves. I hope you rake them over the coals.
A Curves member is billed for $117 FIVE YEARS after she stopped working out at the club.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-thu-problem-1112nov12,0,5588073.column
Wipedout: Thanks for the link.
All: please read and comment:
CURVES: Complaints of Unauthorized Membership Charges
Here’s the Question: How widespread is the practice of questionable or fraudulent billing by desperate Curves franchise owners?
curves greed will lead to their downfall. Curves makes the mistake by being greedy and the individual owners pay for it. Franchises fail, no guarantee you will survive, BUT when corporate, out of greed sells curves franchises like 5 feet from each other how can each one survive?
yet clubs close their doors and curves fines us?
Im sorry I ever got involved with this company. First of all its a disgrace. They are all good at PR, but not much else.
What I also dont understand is why , knowing how screwed up CI is, how people can still cheer for them?? they did a hell of a job brainwashing people!
I hope Howard is taken down and pays for his greed.
Can someone also tel me why people think its ok to work the same muscle every day and not think it is overtraining??
granted they dont take the muscle to failure or fatigue, but it makes the program even more boring that much faster..
That was an interesting article you posted Wipedout and the follow up question by the Admin was quite appropriate. While I would give the owner the benefit of the doubt at this time. I would like to reserve final judgment to see if the owner pays it promptly now and would hope that there is a follow up story letting us know how it is resolved
If you click on the site CURVES: Complaints of Unauthorized Membership Charges you will see my response to the admin question shortly.
for all you curves franchisees..
i just found out from a mytrak rep that curves international never had the intent of advertising curves smart..
they dont care to advertise it so heavin lied again..what an asshole..
Does that surprise you?
I closed my club on Oct. 30th after being open for a little over 4 years. It was located in a small town and I had 27 members when I closed. My highest membership was about 150. After the first year, there was an exodus of members calling to cancel their memberships because they did not have time or had to drive too far. My now ex husband had tried to talk me into selling or closing the club two years ago, but I was hoping to turn it around and that the economy would get better. I didn’t think it was doing well enough to sell. A year ago, my husband and I separated, partly due to the stress from Curves, partly due to his affair with another woman.
Before I closed, I took my franchise agreement to an attorney to ask his advice on closing curves after CI would not respond to my phone calls. He said he could only help me if I filed bankruptcy. He also said the franchise agreement was for 5 years and that CI had 180 days before the 5 year term is up to send me a certified letter asking if I wanted to renew my agreement and I would have 30 days to respond. If I did not respond within 30 days, CI would assume that I wanted to renew my agreement for another 5 years.
I have to admit, I never fully read the franchise agreement, but that should not give CI the right to hold me in bondage and not allow me to close a business for which I can’t even meet payroll and taxes. I was losing $2000 a month from my personal money and I have two kids to support. CI has their money for the franchise and is free to resell it to anyone they would like. I just had to cut my losses and get out.
My ex sent me an email that supposedly was forwarded from CI but I can’t believe some of the demands that were made “in order for Curve International to ‘work with you.'” I had 2 options. Option 1 – sell my club. (After reading option 2, there’s no way I’m going to sell to another “victim”). Option 2 – After completing a list of closing procedures, send them 10K AND then: either donate my machines to another Curves club (nobody ever donated anything to me!) or women’s correctional facility, OR take the cylinders off and ship them to the company that I bought the machines from (a subsidiary of CI?) at my expense, remove the padding and DONATE it to another Curves club, and then sell the machine skeletons for scrape and send CI the receipt and money that’s left after reimbursing any members for which reimbursements are owed.
I bought the machines, I didn’t borrow, lease, or rent them. Those demands are so rediculous, it doesn’t even warrant a response! If anyone out there is going through the same thing with closing, or if anyone wants to help me warn current franchisees of what’s in store for them if the economy in their town goes bad or if they have to close for any reason, I would appreciate any help and suggestions. I can’t imagine anyone in their right mind actually sending CI money and destroying their machines, as well as giving up their business rights. And then CI is still free to sell the territory again! I will probably have to go to court in Waco but if I do, whatever treatment CI gives me, they better be proud to have it made public knowledge.
I don’t look for Curves to be here much longer. I think it grew too big too fast and Gary Heaven got his eyes off of Christ and started focusing on mammon. I think he did start off as a christian though. We all need to pray for him that he will come back to the Lord.
Welcome to the club and get some solace in the fact that you are not alone. I agree with you that we need to get more attention on this as it is public knowledge. I am working on this now and if your truly interested send and email with your phone number on it to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com at this site and he will forward it to me. Hopefully we can get in touch and get a spotlight on this matter. I have to question whether Howie was ever a christian but the real founders of this company certainly were and it’s a shame Howie ran them off in o3.
Dear “Lost my Life Savings”
Thank you for sharing your story with others on this website and for opening the window on the malicious contracts that contain terms that punish franchisees for their failure to be able to make a living with the franchise they bought in great good faith,
Even if you had read the contract, you probably wouldn’t have understood that the franchisor would demand a “failure” fee, because it defies fairness and logic that franchisees should be further punished because they are losing their entire investments. Hard to imagine the malice of ten-year franchise agreements and long-term leases in view of the attorneys’ knowledge and the governments knowledge that, according to statistics, 50% of the franchisees will fail out of business sometime in the first five years
I can’t imagine that a judge woud uphold this $10,000 “failure fee” if he knew the story would become public and I can’t imagine that Curves would want that kind of publicity. But, remember that the attorney who wouldn’t take your case unless you declare bankruptcy is aware that the judges do uphold the terms of the contracts and grant judgmentam and that the franchisors’ unconscionable practices are protected by 30 years of case law made since the Federal Government took franchisors out from the common law fraud and securities laws of the states.
Franchising is all about mammon for the franchisor who has to cannibalize his franchisees to himself survive. Remember that the franchisors borrow against the signed contracts of the franchisees to expand internationally in a kind of Ponzi scheme that appears innocent and wears a pretty face to good faith buyers of franchises.
Democracy, Capitalism, and Christianity used to be somewhat equal partners in our National economy but this business model is not compatible with democracy or Christianity.
May God be with you and comfort and guide you in the days ahead!
Carol
to unhappy,
no it doesnt. But this man is a seriously large asshole. He was at one point a senior sales man for pace group exercise, the original hydraulic and he uses those salesman skills today to con people into buying his shit!
Its a shame that most people dont see the assholes that make up CI.
A club closed near me recently, losing 28 members in ONE day due to competition from two other fitness clubs in the area about 10-15 minutes away at a much lower cost.
She still has members, but way too few to remain open.
She called an area directory for support and the area directors response was, “I can’t help you, you need to hire an attorney.”
What load of crap is that!
Curves NEEDS to go away. Granted other franchisees probably have issues too as nothing is perfect, but im just tired of the lies and the bullshit Howard Heavin feeds us.
Just because he IS a wealthy man doesnt mean he will remain a wealthy man. It wont be the first time people have made and lost fortunes due to greed and lies!
To unhappy, have you heard anything about a story airing in march regarding the lies and bs from CI? I think it was something Robery Lay was working on…
has anyone heard that the total amount of clubs left in the us is 500?
I was told by a neighbor club that she read somewhere hes down to 500 clubs!
She wasnt confusing it with the latest mytrak release that says 500 clubs signed up for the new software…
He has gone bankrupt before so it wouldn’t surprise me to see him lose it all. The old saying what comes around goes around does seem to come true more often that not. There are more that 500 clubs still open somewhere around 4,500 at this time. But that is world wide so in the States who knows how many are left. Howie surly knows but he’s not talking. We do know that around a 100 clubs a month have been closing in the U S alone. It’s funny that he still advertises that there is over 10,000 clubs as can be seen on the Curves Web site which we all know is not true. There are several national articles that will be coming out about Curves after the first of the year. If you are interested in getting involved and telling your horror story send an email to Sean at this web site. He will forward the information to me and I will send you the contact information of who you need to get a hold of to put in your complaints about Howie’s business tactics.
He has gone. Bankrupt before?
When. Did this happen?
I have just started reading on this sight and have a question about closing and starting up another.
If I were to start another exercise gym with this equipment and get it going while I was still operating as Curves just long enough to see if it would work, lowering prices and maybe going co-ed, what are the chances they would find out and would they be coming around once I tell them I have closed my doors. If I have done this and have closed out the curves account and they can not draw out their money, besides the threats what would they do? Want very much to keep a gym open but need to get a little money in to hire some help as for the most part I am here by myself. Have one lady who volounteers one afternoon a week and another that comes in for the last two hours twice a week and we open at 5am.
Barbara;
As a non-franchise competitor of Curves, I have helped several former Curves owners open their own clubs after closing their Curves location (obviously, I cannot give you any names or locations, because some of these people were in violation of their franchise agreement or non-compete agreement). Granted, the chances of anyone from corporate ever coming to visit are slim, but you would be opening yourself to exposure of litigation if you were to do this .
If you do go through with this, I have a suggestion on going coed. I would suggest a combination of women only hours during the day, then coed hours in the evening. As you know, one of the major reasons for the success of women’s clubs has been the fact that many women do not want to work out with men around; even out of shape men. But there are as many out of shape men out there as women and many of these men are just as intimidated at the idea of working out in a hardcore coed gym. You will probably get a lot of senior couples working out together as well as overweight couples (Weight Watchers is coed).
Good luck.
I have wondered about this also. We have been in business for 8 years and if it weren’t for other business interests, we would be out of business also. If we could close and reopen without paying the $600/monthly (franchisee and advertising fees) we still wouldn’t be getting rich, but would at least be able to show a little profit. We are in a very small market, and would like to be able to stay open just for our “ladies” . In rereading the contract it looks like we would have to wait at least a year not to be in violation. Of course, that doesn’t address the equipment issue. There are about 8 Curves still operating in my state, and I think most of the problem would come from them “informing”. Oh my! what a mess.