CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story
The American dream of owning your own successful business seems to be going up in smoke for a lot of the Curves Franchise owners. The story you are about to read may seem like a Steven King horror novel but it is a real story that has happened to my wife and I. To all of the past, present and future owners of a Curves franchise please take the time to read the whole story as at the end we explain what we plan to do and how you as an ex or present owner may want to get involved.
My wife and I had owned and operated our own business for over 20 years and had been very successful at doing so. While we were making a great income from our business there was something missing in our life. Neither us felt that we were contributing to society but just taking and we decided to make a major change in our life. That was when we heard about Curves for Women. It was a new franchise that only had 300 or so clubs and for the first time in years we both became excited at the prospect of actually helping people reach their goals. We bought our first club in 1997 located in a city of thirty thousand. From the first day it opened it was more successful than our wildest dreams. Not only were we making excellent money but the personal rewards helping people better their lives was a truly rewarding feeling. I can still remember as if it was yesterday the first time a Dr. of one of our members came in to check out what we were doing as he couldn’t believe the ch
anges his patient had gone through. She had gotten off her high blood medication and had lost over 40 pounds in 4 months. It was truly amazing and over the years we have seen it happen numerous times over and over.
We sold our first club in 2001 and bought two more franchises. My wife became a mentor for Curves International around this time and I was helping to sell franchise for Curves International as so many of are members wanted to own a club. It was at this time that we started to see problems arising with Curves International but we attributed it to the fast growth that Curves was going through. In 2002 we bought two more franchises but this time they were in what was called a metro-area instead of city under thirty thousand in population.
The first problem we encountered with Curves International was in early 2003. Curves sold a franchise that was a corridor of land between one of our franchise’s and the next city 8 miles from our southern boarder. It was obvious to us that the territory didn’t have the necessary population to support a facility and that Curves International was selling any location just out of greed and the fact that there were so many people who wanted a franchise. The people who bought that franchise tried to open up on our border but it had always been an unwritten but followed rule of Curves International that you open in the middle of your territory so that disputes between owners over stealing members from your territory didn’t arise. We immediately filed a complaint with Curves International and they stopped the new owner from opening at that location. Unfortunately for the new owners there were no other commercial locations between the two cities so they were forced into selling that franchise back to Curves International for a loss.
It was also at this time that Curves International started to change personnel. The employee’s who we had a personal relationship with that had started Curves International with Gary Heavin were leaving the company at an alarming rate. Seven employees that were the top management of Curves left or were forced out because of Gary Heavin’s greed. They ended up filling a law suit against Curves which was later settled out of court. It was at this time that Diane Heavin became involved with Curves and a whole new history was being written about how Curves was started. The original Curves member guide which was written by Gary Heavin and June Manley was taken off the market and the new Curves book authored by of course Gary Heavin was on the top 10 of the Times best seller list.. To make sure it was on the Times best seller list all the clubs had to order at least on case. That is when we as owners realized Heavin was a manipulator and not the born again Christian he portrayed to be. It was also at this time that the price to buy a franchise more than doubled in price. This came as quite a surprise as Heavin had always maintained that he would never ever increase his franchise price and he even swore on the bible in front of a group at club camp that he would never break his word on that. Well as we all know he didn’t keep that promise for long, which just shows his greed.
At this point my wife and I became quite concerned and even considered selling our business but other problems arose concerning Curves International that demanded our full attention. In 2004 another Curves location located on our boarder of one of our metro-areas hired two of our employees and stole around 15 members from our club. Both employees had signed the anti covenant not to compete and in our state those agreements are strictly enforced by the courts. We considered going to court but since it was another Curves facility we decided to file a complaint with Curves International. And to let them handle it. What a mistake that was as they did nothing. We transferred the members files but refused to transfer the money for the members dues until such time that Curves International responded to our complaint. We were told by the area director, which was a new position at Curves International, that we were trouble makers and he refused to send any of are clubs the members appreciation bags. Shortly thereafter Curves International resold the corridor of land that had been sold back to them at a loss from the previous owners and they allowed the new owners to open up in nearly the same location that they had refuse the previous owners only a year and a half before. The new owners advertised in our area and ended up getting 10 or 11 members to transfer to their club. Again we held their monthly dues but did transfer the members files. We immediately filed a complaint but again got the same response nothing. It didn’t take long for most of the members who transferred to come back to our club as the other location was small and in a very run down area and to this day that club has not shown a profit and has been sold numerous times over the years for little to nothing.
Then in 2005 the real problems with Curves International started that we are still contending with today. In one of our metro-areas a competitor by the name of Ladies Workout Express opened up right across the street from our location. Unknown to us they had hired our manager and one other employee from that location and when the employee’s left they had stolen off our computer our member files. They ended up stealing over two thirds of our membership with in a week. The employees had signed the covenant not to compete so we immediately hired a lawyer and prepared for a lawsuit. As I stated before in our state that agreement is strictly enforced but it took four months to get it into court. During this time that location was losing so much money that we decided to move the location next to our other territory so that both clubs could stay open. We sent in the required change of location form to Curves International but never heard anything back from them so we went ahead and relocated in late 05. The owners of the Ladies Workout Express eventually went broke because of the lawsuit and the fact that they would end up owing us monetary damages. They filed for bankruptcy to prevent us from collecting any monetary awards in Dec 05 but we did have the satisfaction knowing that we did what was right
In early 06 we were informed by Curves International that because we abandon that location they were terminating all of our franchise agreements. We immediately requested mediation for all of our clubs which is authorized by our franchise agreements with Curves International. We never heard back from them so we hired a lawyer in Waco, TX to represent us. He proceeded to send them a letter requesting the same mediation process and they did respond to him. They sent him letter stating that it was premature to go through the mediation process at that time as they were in the process of researching our reason for moving. Curves International continued to debit our account for the franchise and advertising fees for all the other clubs we owned but stopped talking the fees for the one territory that they stated we abandoned. The lawyer had us send Curves International a check for the fees and a new authorization form for them to deduct it from our account. Neither our lawyer or ourselves ever heard anything back from Curves International so we all assumed that things were back to normal.
In the spring of 07 we made the decision to start selling off all of our clubs and to completely retire. It didn’t take me long to sell the club we owned that wasn’t in a metro-area and I agreed to stay with the new owner’s to help train them how to run the business. We sent all the documentation into Curves International and the sale was completed by January 08. That freed my wife and I up to concentrate on our metro-area clubs and to get them ready for sale. In Feb of 08 we heard that a Curves club was opening in one of our territories within a mile of our current club. We could not understand how Curves International could do such a thing. We again filed a complaint by phone and e-mail to Curves International and several weeks later we were informed by e-mail that they didn’t know what we were talking about. We were told we didn’t own any franchises and hadn’t since we were terminated in 05. That came as quite a shock to my wife and I as our franchise and advertising fee’s had been deducted all along from our checking account and we had just recently sold a club that they were telling us we never owned. We had a local lawyer send a letter to the new owners explaining the situation and that we would be seeking legal recourse against Curves International and depending on the outcome they were opening themselves up to a potential lawsuit. During this time we had bought and paid in full for the Smart Equipment for Curves International and were waiting for the installation which was scheduled for the June 24th. On June 20th , a Friday we received a phone message telling us that the Curves Smart Installation was canceled and that we had to call Curves legal for an explanation. We left messages both e-mail and phone every 30 minutes on Monday June 23rd and finally late in the afternoon we received an e-mail stating that one of there lawyers would be in touch with us before the end of the day, They never sent an e-mail or a phone call as was promised but by mid day the next day they did respond by e-mail. It stated because of the problems with the members transfers, the fact that we abandoned a franchise, and that we had interfered with the opening of the new franchise located in our territory we weren’t approved for the Curves Smart. Yet in late May they had sent all the promotional ad material for the Curves Smart and of course we had gone to a considerable amount of expense for training the employees, advertising and promotion of the Curves Smart equipment. It was at this point that my wife and I decided that drastic action had to be taken against Heavin and Curves International.
While we still love the concept of Curves we feel that because of the deceptive and we believe fraudulent business practices that Heavin has allowed under his management Curves will eventually end up in the toilet so to speak. After spending many hours on the internet we have found that there are many lawsuits against this man and his company. Just read some of the post’s that are on franchisepick.com from owners concerning the new ten thousand fee if your club goes under and closes to the vitamins that were sold in Feb and March by Ideas in Action at a discount to owners without telling them that they would expire at the end of May. The lack of support and communication from Curves International that all of us owners are going through is intolerable. It is impossible for an owner to get through to them on the phone and good luck if you expect a call back in a timely manor. The fact that we as owners pay a lot of money for our advertising fees and have no accounting of where it is spent and a quite frankly we never see many ads in our area.
I have taken the time to do the necessary research to find several good lawyers who handle franchise law who are more than willing to help Curves owners who are having similar problems with Curves. I for one am going to go after Curves International and Gary Heavin in a court of law. These are not class action but group action lawsuit and if you don’t understand the difference contact me and I will explain it to you. There have been over 200 such lawsuit filed against Curves in the last several years and while some have been settled in mediation others are in the process of going to litigation. If you are a past or present Curves owner who has experienced these problems and want satisfaction whether it be monetary or revenge please contact me. We have several options that we can go and I for one am positive we will win as the other lawsuits have been successful so far and have set a precedent for ours. It is time for the owners of Curves franchises either past or present to stand up together and put a stop to Heavins’s ramped destruction of peoples lives just for monetary greed.
Thanks for reading our post and God Bless you all.
ARE YOU AN CURVES FRANCHISE OWNER OR FORMER CURVES FRANCHISEE?
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CURVES FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITY?
PLEASE SHARE A COMMENT BELOW.
By the way our Christmas for the three children cost us just under $175. I would have put some toys on a credit card, but they are maxed out from keeping curves alive!
For crying out loud it’s not the workout that is causing the the curves clubs club to close at an ever increasing rate as fitdude an admitted competitor of curves tries to ‘explain. It’s Howie. Plain and simple, black and white, it’s the management or lack of that is the problem. Every time an owner comes up with a plan to increase membership and it works Howie tries to squelch it. If it is not his idea for get it. There is nothing in any of the contracts either 5 or 10 year that prevents the clubs from becoming 24/7. But because he didn’t come up with the idea and can’t make money off it he is doing his best to discourage owners from doing it. He even lied by stating that the liability insurance would not allow it and if they did it would be too costly to do. The liability insurance company Sports and Fitness has told owners that it is acceptable and that their cost for insurance will not increase. More lies from this so called Christian. No company can continue to operate when the head of that organization is nothing but a lying , dishonest and unethical business executive.. Period.
Next Step
Such a sad story and truly heart wrenching as most of us have or have had kids and we all know how you must feel. Our prayers go out for you and your three kids. While it may not be Christian of me there are times that I feel like walking up to Howie and slapping the piss out of him for the pain he has caused so many decent owners. I obviously wouldn’t do that but I sure wouldn’t hold it against anyone that did because this man needs to someday understand the pain he has caused on so many people. God Bless you and your children Next step and we will pray that they have a better Easter.
unhappy,
I agree with you about the fact that Howie could give us some more leniencies in operating our clubs, so that we could keep are members happy. I don’t at this point know what will keep them working out that CI will approve but I know it is not the circuit alone. I think we were set to failure, because our founder’s business plan did not take into account that after a few months woman would get tired of the workout and quit coming. Yes, some women commit and then Curves changes their lives. However, and I don’t know how many of you agree, a large portion of women do not keep coming no matter how much I call, and they cancel their membership. I have always heard that getting a new client is harder then keeping one. Well in my case I can get them, but I really can’t keep them. Even in this down economy if our women were really seeing the results they would not quit.
Here are the reasons I think I can’t keep them
1. They get tired of the workout (I have been told this by many canceling members)
2. They leave to go to coed gyms that offer more and for the most part are cheaper.
3. They leave because the results were not there. For this one I think it has to do with diet or 30 minutes of exercise is not enough because of how very overweight they are.
Everyone should keep one thing in mind that Howie was not an expert when he devised this plan, and that our system was new. Which is great and is the reason we had so many members. The facts are that the dot gov sites all say 30 is a maintenance mode and Curves even says we need our members to do more then just the circuit. Really? So I asked my AD if that is the case why not give them more here at our club. Why do I tell them to go for a walk? In the 100 degree heat? By the way if any one really wants to know about the study at Baylor, do I have some inside facts! The truth is the business plan is not cutting it, and since the way to fix it would not bring Howie money, I would bet we won’t be able to do that.
When I said as my name next step, I did so because I want to take my club to the next level and offer these things, but then I would violate my agreement. I know I don’t want to lose my franchise, because some other sucker would just buy it and reopen it, plus I have to keep my smart equipment going. The ladies really like it. What the heck am I suppose to do. I did not get into business to lose money every month. Then know how to stop the leaks but can’t since it is a franchise with so many limitations.
Next step,
I beg to differ with you on the reasons you think you can’t keep members. You state
“1. They get tired of the workout (I have been told this by many canceling members)”
I have been with curves for over 13 years and not once have I heard that reason for canceling. Are you changing the machines around every month? Do you have days where the members go in the opposite direction once a week? Do you have a trainer in the middle of the circuit at all times? Do you teach the platform dance steps? How often do you buy new music and how often to you change music?
How often to you rearrange the club, bring fresh flowers or floral arrangement’s to the club. What circuit games are you playing and do you have a trivia board?
“2. They leave to go to coed gyms that offer more and for the most part are cheaper.” This type of member was never yours and should not have joined. You can tell when they sign up that they will be moving on Curves clientele would not be caught in a coed gym period. .
“3. They leave because the results were not there.”
It is your and your trainers fault if the members results are not there. First off you were suckered into buying curves smart which does not work but even with that said you have been supplied with all the tools to make sure that member reaches her goal. You are to do a weigh and measure every month and if the member isn’t losing inches and pounds that it is up to you and your trainers to figure out what is going on and why. Granted it is usually because the member hasn’t changed her eating habits but not always. Your Curves manual has all the information you need to determine what problem is and how to correct it. If the member won’t follow your suggestions at this time you are eventually going to lose her as a member. That is a fact of life and that is why you need to constantly be bringing new members in.
The reason the clubs are closing at an alarming rate is directly related to the way curves international has been mismanaged. You and many other clubs were sold curves smart under the assumption that it was new technology and that curves international would follow up with a huge national advertising campaign to support your investment. Well first off it is not new technology. It is over 11 year old now and never worked that and doesn’t work now. Secondly have you seen the advertising campaign that you and all the other owners were promised. Of course not! Besides the advanced workout is a much better workout and works better for membership retention. This is only one of the mismanagement problems associated with curves international and I could go on and on but I’m sure you can point them out also.
unhappy,
I can see you sitting at your computer and cursing about my post. I think we all have a different take on this whole organization, but we can agree that CI is dropping the ball in more places then one.
With that said I do appreciate your helpful comments and we already do 90% of them but we will work harder on the other 10%.
I still hold firm to my belief that a lot of the problem is boredom. I am not sure what your back ground is, but mine is in the study of exercise psychology. (This happened after I purchased my first club). With that in mind I know that we are not cutting it and never will. As I mentioned early just as my kinesiology instructor said about circuit training is that “Think of your favorite dessert, then image eating it every day. How fast would that sweet become your least favorite?”
I can think of a member who was with me for over two years, then she quit September 2008. She came back in January 1st to quit again in February of 2009. What she told me is that she just could not bring herself to go around in circles anymore. It is not every member who quits for this reason but a lot do.
Well with a lot more work we will see how things go and I really am giving it my all 200%. Maybe just maybe I will one day be able to write myself a paycheck. NO I have not ever done that in 4 years.
I think how many of us work all weekend putting out flyers? Going to health fairs? I put out 1,000 of flyers a month. Good luck everyone to those who have closed, to the ones left open, and the ones that will have a day in court. May peace come to us all!
I certainly second that and good luck in the future.
Dear Next Step,
I think “boredom” is one of those adjectives women use to label the real problem: many of us are overwhelmed with so many other “needs” pressing on us that we don’t put our physical needs for a workout at the top of the list of priorities.
This doesn’t just happen at Curves (not does it just happen to women), it happens at all exercise programs of all types. The exception is recreational exercise (ie hiking and rowing), and competitive exercise (ie tennis and marathons), and even they eventually succumb to that reality for many women.
For instance, from personal experience, I know that Curves is one of the most convenient programs to effectively manage back pain, but even I find it becomes difficult for me to prioritize that time to go to a Curves (since I’m not working there).
So, I finally surmised that “pain” and “time” and “boredom” are often just an easy way to avoid saying, “I don’t have the energy to prioritize my need for basic strength training”. Not every woman has this issue, but it does seem to be a big part of the women’s cultural subgroup in this country.
Best Wishes
Hey, I finally saw a Curves commercial in 2010. I caught it as I was channel surfing, the program …….
700 Club
God help, I would say us, but I am no longer an owner, so God help and Bless those of you still around.
Pingback: CURVES: Can Indie Clubs Thrive Where Curves Failed? : Unhappy Franchisee
CURVES: Can Indie Clubs Thrive Where Curves Failed?
The group action lawsuit count down is on. It should be going to trial in mid March of this year. Most owners who are involved in the lawsuit are counting the days before they will finally have their day in court. Will Howie finally be held accountable for his unethical, immoral and greedy ways? , Will Curves continue to even exist or is this the end to what could have been the greatest health franchise in the world? Since the first of the year record numbers of Curves franchises have closed their doors and hundreds of 5 year franchisee contracts are about to come up for renewal. Will they renew or close? Are you a curves owner? If so tell us what are your intentions are you going to renew or are you going to close?
Unhappy! Don’t hold your breath! Best of Luck — The MBE-UPS BSA Lawsuit belweather plaintiffs were dismissed in a summary judgement in favor of MBE-UPS over a year ago and the other 200 plaintiffs in the mass action are still waiting for a decision from the judge in the Federal Court as to their status. The other plaintiffs inthe other lawsuit against MBE/UPS have yet to get before a jury and are looking to a class action lawsuit.
Obviously, the delay works against franchisees who run out of money or die! Stacked deck! Most of these big coporations win even when the government sues them! What does that tell you?
unhappy,
What court will the trial be held at? As for the amount of clubs that closed I can’t get an accurate count. I asked Curves yesterday when I had to call for something, but the secretary said she did not know. If you locate a Curves on their site almost all of them are closed. I had to locate a curves in NY last week for a member and out of 16 only three were still open. Well, where I am from none of them are closed. We all seem to be doing ok, but about an hour away a few have closed. We also did not have a saturation problem. As for if we will renew, it is hard to say because a 10,000 closing fee would be a lot to pay.
Dear Next Step
If you are at time for a renewal there is no question of any kind of closing fee. A “closing fee” is what is the general reference to Curves demand for payment in consideration of royalties and advertising fees not paid if you close before your contract is up for renewal.
My lawyer said that it doesn’t sail past our state laws but I know many franchisees in my state who paid this because Curves International bullied them into it.
Good Luck
to: another curver. There was mention previously about “my lawyer said that it doesn’t sail past our state laws”………….What state are you in —- just curious and hoping it is Maryland.
TO ALL CURVES OWNERS
There is an interesting article in the Waco newspaper about the Heavin’s and Curves and can be found by going to http://www.wacotrib.com/news/82861642.html. Is there any Curves owner out there that believes his true intentions for doing this were anything but self promotion and greed. He will have his franchise owners sell the shirts and then he will donate the revenues to get a tax write-off. He will use the expense for the jet trip as a tax deduction also and I believe that his true motivating reasons for doing this is not because it is a Christian thing to do a self promotional act. A man is judged by his actions present an past and if we look at his life history it shows he doesn’t have a Christian bone in his whole body. His whole life has been self promotion and greed. Many Curves owners now believe that he displays many characteristics of a psychopathic personality. What do you think? Is Howie a psychopath who is self absorbed bent on destruction and who continuously lies and blames owners for their business failing rather than to look in a mirror and to see the true cause of the downfall of curves staring back at him?
To Next step
Here is the court and doc # of the group action lawsuit.
FEDERAL COURT
U.S. CLERK OFFICE
800 FRANKLIN ROOM 800
WACO TX. 76701
254-750-1501
CASE OR DOC # 07′ CV’ 048
Carol,
Obviously I won’t hold by breath but before you talk about the Curves Lawsuits you really should become more informed about the court actions that have already taken place. Curves already tried to get a summary judgment and failed so it will be going to trail by jury. I am sorry to hear about your families experience with up franchise lawsuit and fully understand your distaste for franchisers. But don’t you dare rain on our parade as all curves owners need to remain hopeful and positive. Instead of bringing negativity to this site please try to stay positive and supportive of what we as owners are trying to accomplish here. Contrary to your opinion there have been many lawsuits that have been won against franchise’s even though you weren’t successful. You could be right Carol but please keep your opinions to your self at least until the cases are either heard or thrown out of court. Than if you are right you can gloat and tell me you told us so. But for now I don’t need to hear it. OK
Next Step,
That is great it’s not legal in your state but more importantly it is not legal in the state of Texas either and that is where the cases will be heard because of our franchise agreement. That a win /win for all of us.
“Instead of bringing negativity to this site” “keep your opinions to your self”
LOL, thank you, that is the funniest thing I’ve read in ages!
You tell her man! haha THIS site is NOTHING but negativity. And you are going to call other people hypocrites? Priceless. Just priceless.
OK, Unhappy! You know I would be delighted if you won a big lawsuit or are compensated in a settlement tlement from Curves for the damages you have suffered, and I will be watching your progress.
I still wonder why I can’t find any Case Law where any lawsuits have been won against franchisors! All the actual case law I can find has been in favor of the franchisor, except for a few “unlawful terminations.” I sincerely hope I am not right and that the three branches of government hav e not stacked the deck against franchisees under the guise of serving the public good.
Could you cite me some cases when you have time? —or were all these “Wins” a settlement of the issues that are not a matter of public record? What do you think of the Quiznos proposed settlement, or don’t you follow this?
Carol
You may have answered your question yourself. I’m sure many cases have been settled before they ever get to court as most lawsuits are settled in that manor because of the huge awards that are handed out by juries when the litigants win. One that does come to mind is the case in Ca. against krispy kreem. I know it went to court and the franchisee won a huge settlement as I spoke to the lawyer that handled that particular case when I was shopping for an attorney. I haven’t had the time to follow the Quiznos settlement . Please give us a review I’m sure many would be interested in reading it.
In the next week I will try to do some research in my limited free time about cases dealing with franchise’s and will get back to you.
To guest,
Well Well Well glad we could make your day and give you a laugh! But I would hardly agree with you as most posters are not negative here. Their posts may seem negative to you but most of the people here are positive telling their personal stories about a company where the management has continuously lied, cheated and bullied them into paying money they didn’t have by using intimidation tactics that are unethical, immoral and quite possibly illegal. Granted the posts are very negative towards Curves International and its fearless leader Howie but the actual writers of those posts are some of the most positive people you will ever meet.
To “unhappy”,
“Well Well Well glad we could make your day and give you a laugh! ”
And I’m thrilled I could make you “glad” and hopefully “happy” for a change.
Dear Guest,
Actually I’m almost always happy with a smile on my face but I chose the unhappy moniker as I am so disillusioned by what Curves has become under Howies leadership. Born again Christian my ass he never has been a Christian and will surly go to you know where for all the pain and suffering he has caused here on earth. To him it is all about greed, greed ,greed and more greed.
unhappy.
you lost me when you said,
“That is great it’s not legal in your state but more importantly it is not legal in the state of Texas either and that is where the cases will be heard because of our franchise agreement. That a win /win for all of us.”
sorry what is not legal?
Trying to charge the closing fee or for that matter the franchise fee and add fee after you have closed
Exactly. Remember, just because something is written into a contract (especially if it’s in fine print), does not mean it is legal. Despite the impression that franchisors have better legal standing than franchisees (and i’m not doubting it), contract law holds that agreements have to be reasonable. That is overwhelmingly true in all courts across our land. The problem is that we don’t always agree on what is “reasonable”.
I used to write contracts as part of being an administrator for several small businesses and I had to research contract law in several states. I also sat in several court cases over a ten year period, and the judges opinion (of what is reasonable and law abiding) always overrides whatever is written in a contract.
However, in WA state, where I live, my lawyer said that regardless of what’s written in the contract, there is no legal right for the franchisor to collect fees from me when I’ve closed the business. Now that might have been in the context of my filing bankruptcy, I’m not positive of that, but I actually interviewed several bankruptcy lawyers and they all positively scowled over the idea of it. So, I urge all franchisees to seek legal counsel before capitulating to Curves International’s demands for payment.
Another Curver: Good advice! If you are closing because you are failing or are in danger of failing because you are not breaking even after exhausting the estimated startup costs and startup time element and can prove this, it is unlikely that a Judge would uphold the contract terms that treat your closing as an “abandonment” of the business and as abandonment of your contractual obligations and promises.
If you can’t afford legal counsel which is not cheap — you can always close down and do your best to follow the golden rule and wait to see if Curves will take you to court to try and get a judgment, before you hire an attorney. I haven’t seen any reports from Curves or ex-Curves franchisees who have indicated that Curves is taking failing franchisees to court to try to get judgments. I would imagine that the contract permits the franchisor to make any kind of deal he wants to with any individual franchisee (as has been indicated by the postings) and this would probably not be illegal because of the contract terms.
Since they have been settling for different dollar amounts, I don’t think they would want to deal with this in the courts.
Remember that the “failure fee” is in the contract to begin with to give the franchisee the incentive to try to sell the business or to keep the franchisee trying to breakeven because as long as the franchisee keeps trying or in the event the franchisee can “unload” your business to someone else, the franchisor is getting his profits right off of the top.
I, apparently, am getting confused with another “Carol” on here. My daughter is an owner of a Curves which closed their doors on Dec. 31, 09. She has ful-filled everything on the list required by Curves, except for the financial obligation. There are no monies to fulfill that requirement. It’s a “NO BRAINER.”
I, apparently, am getting confused with another “Carol” on here. My daughter is an owner of a Curves which closed their doors on Dec. 31, 09. She has fulfilled everything on the list required by Curves, except for the financial obligation. There are no monies to fulfill that requirement. It’s a “NO BRAINER.” If there’s no money to keep the doors open, how in the world is there any money to pay them??????
My question still remains……”there is mention of “not legal in my state.” What state are they talking about??????? Does anyone know.
My daughter has received an email from Curves Int. – they are now sending her to “legal” because she has not ful-filled her legal obligation.
to Carol 2nd
send an email to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com at this site and request he forward it to me and include your phone number and I will answer your question. don’t sign anything Curves send you until you talk to me. unhappy
to Carol Cross,
You are not right in your assumption that Curves is not suing owners for the franchise and advertising fees. They have and continue to file suits against owners.
when giving advice try to stick to what you know and not what you think is happening as your advice to Carol 2nd is wrong for the most part. I just got done talking to a women from Iowa who just received her summons from Waco and she closed in May of last year. Curves is that far behind in sending out notice to owners because of all the closings have overwhelmed them. Well over 100 per month and climbing.
Who is Sean and can you list his email address. Thanks
If you would like your contact info forwarded to unhappy, email it to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com.
Unhappy! I have only tried to indicate what I believe to be true. I was not aware that Curves was taking ex-franchisees to Court and that the Courts have been enforcing the terms of the “failure fee” against those who were failing to thrive and who had exhausted the estimatated startup costs and who had sincerely tried to make their businesses work but closed down to stop the bleeding to avoid becoming insolvent.
I wasn’t talking about “advertising fees” or the back franchise royalties — unless by this you mean the terms of “abandonment of the franchise” before the expiration of the term of the contract, i.e. the failure fee.
As I indicated before, it is my belief and opinion that franchisees just can’t close up because they are not making actual profits and want to do something else because the contract terms prevent this kind of abandonment and treat such abandonment as a violation of the contract terms. It is my belief and opinion that if the franchisee is making enough to cover overhead and debt service and a small salary, the “failure fee” in the contract would be upheld by the Courts. Franchisors never promise “profits” within the written contracts as I’m sure you know.
I have read case law where the “failure fee” -the liquidated damages– are not upheld by the courts in some states when these damages are merely a “penalty” for failure of the franchisee to thrive. I have read other case law where the “royalty damages” or “liquidated damages” have been upheld by the courts as a reasonable term of the contract.
“I have only tried to indicate what I believe to be true.”
Don’t. If you don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t talk.
“I have read case law where the “failure fee” -the liquidated damages…”
The “Failure Fee” is not liquidated damages. It is a $10,000 closing fee specific to Curves that CI demands in addition to the future royalties and ad contributions when a club closes before the contract term is expired.
Perhaps you should do a little more reading and less writing about what you don’t know about. http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/curves-negotiating-the-10000-closing-fee/
Guest –
“The “Failure Fee” is not liquidated damages. It is a $10,000 closing fee specific to Curves that CI demands in addition to the future royalties and ad contributions when a club closes before the contract term is expired.”
“If you don’t know what you’re talking about, don’t talk.”
You should take your own advice and not talk about things you are obviously not fully versed on. With everyone I know that has been asked to pay it, the $10,000 closing fee is in lieu of, NOT in addition to, future royalties and ad funds.
As far as her voicing her opinion, an opinion that you’ll note she qualifies, that’s ALL that goes on here. Her opinion, his opinion, their opinion, your opinion. And well, you know what they say about opinions…
BTW, did you even read what is at the link you referred her to? From your ignorant comments, it’s pretty clear you didn’t. Classic.
Carol Cross writes: “Remember that the “failure fee” is in the contract to begin with to give the franchisee the incentive to try to sell the business…”
Really Carol? Where exactly did CI put the $10K “failure fee” in the Curves franchise agreement? Can you tell me which section you’re referring to? You have read it, correct?
Please correct me if I’m wrong, but I don’t believe the “failure fee” is in the “contract” that the current franchisees signed. It’s almost funny that while the contract clause doesn’t exist, Carol Cross can confidently explain the franchisor’s motivation and insidious motives for it.
What’s not funny is she’s giving uninformed legal advice yet she’s not a lawyer, not a franchisee and she’s not in the least informed. I may have gotten some details wrong, but I’m not telling people not to hire a lawyer, go ahead and close and don’t worry, you won’t get sued. She is, and it’s irresponsible.
The format and wording of the contracts changed ridiculously often. A failure fee may be defined in some of the contracts and not in others. My two contracts with CI were 15 months apart and worlds different in many significant ways.
**** Anybody can file a lawsuit regardless of it’s legal validity.
A legal finding brought in a court in one jurisdiction does not necessarily hold water in another jurisdiction. (State Jurisdictions are notorious for not honoring findings in other states.)
Thus in my state (Wa) where CI’s claims would not be honored according to more than one lawyer I talked to (but perhaps only in the context of my Bankruptcy conditions?) I feel economically protected, but I would not if I decided to take up residence in the same county as Waco.
Summary: Talk To A Lawyer in your jurisdiction!
Carol cross is just trying to be helpful but she is not a curves owner and doesn’t have any idea what is going on with curves and the problems between CI and the owners. She should not offer advice about this period. If any of the curves owners need help contact unhappy as he is the most knowledgeable owner on these subjects by far. There is a lot that Carol Cross is not aware of but she tries to come across as she does when the best policy would be to keep her mouth shut and type on her own board. Oh well thats my two cents worth but I doubt carol will get the message. AGAIN IF YOU ARE A CURVES OWNER AND NEED ADVICE GET A HOLD OF UNHAPPY. I’M GLAD I DID AND YOU WILL BE TOO.
Has anyone out there received their letter of abondoment from Curves and thus received a summons? If so how long after the letter did you receive it and what is happening?
Tickedoff,
All owners who close early or for that matter piss off Howie receive a letter of abandonment . Now days when you close it can take anywhere from 3 months up to 6 months before you will receive the abandonment letter. Normally it takes 3 to 12 weeks but as a result of all the closings since December that time frame has once again been extended. Many owners have received a summons and are in the process of going to court against Curves and that process usually takes about the same amount of time that it took to get your abandonment letter. One of the clubs that closed back east in early October just got the summons the first part of this week . At the national convention Howie stated that they were not going to ask for the closing fee any more and just go after owners in the courts but once again Howie lied as owners who have given notice of intent to close in January all have received the new closing packet with the 10,000 dollars fee included. If he is smart he may wait to see who wins the court action on the summons he has sent out before he continues sending more. We don’t know that yet but it would be the most logical course of action considering it looks like he is going to lose those cases. There is a statute of limitations on how long he can wait to file against owners but that starts at the ending date of your individual franchise agreement. I’m not sure how long the statute of limitations is but the next time I talk to the lawyers handling the cases I will certainly ask and post on the site so all owners will know. Unhappy
Owners are now taking bet’s on if Mr. Gary Heavin will be running Curves in 12-14 months or sooner. They also think this has relevance to the lack of communication
regarding the typical March regional meeting and especially Convention. Are the rumors true that Curves International is for sale? I have heard from credible sources that it is in the works. Does anyone else have information concerning this
development? In all honesty this is probably the only thing that could keep Curves Clubs open. Present owners should demand him to sell asap for the betterment of the Curves Mark or brand.
Past and present owners we are working on getting a national news paper to do a story on Curves. The author would like to speak with owners for the story. If you are willing to go on the record please send an email to this address unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com. and he will forward it to me. If you don’t want to go on the record but wouldn’t mind sending an email to the author asking him to write the story that would be helpful also so drop an email to Admin and he will make sure I get and I will send you the info you need to contact the author.
unhappy but getting happier as the days go on and we get closer to the start of the group action lawsuit. March 21 is the day so mark it in your date book.
Unhappy, you might want to change your date book. I looked up your case, and it looks like the attorneys have agreed to push the Trial back to the last week of August.
Some information regarding a previous post…. John McCord used to be the VP of Franchise Sales for Curves. Gary set him up as a re-sales business broker so he could, I believe, make more money off the re-sale process. Making $5,000 per re-sale wasn’t enough for Gary. When I was selling my Curves, McCord would not “take-on” my club because I wasn’t profitable enough. I learned later McCord took a percentage of the sale price, so the more profitable the club, the more he could sell it for, the more money he made. They were never really there to help the owners sell the club, just there to make another buck!
Also… how did Gary get the name “Howie?”
One more question… any word on how the international market is going. When I sold my Curves they were going big in Australia and had just opened the 10,000th Curves in Paris. Are the internatioinal Curves sustaining?