CURVES: Robert Lay’s Story
The American dream of owning your own successful business seems to be going up in smoke for a lot of the Curves Franchise owners. The story you are about to read may seem like a Steven King horror novel but it is a real story that has happened to my wife and I. To all of the past, present and future owners of a Curves franchise please take the time to read the whole story as at the end we explain what we plan to do and how you as an ex or present owner may want to get involved.
My wife and I had owned and operated our own business for over 20 years and had been very successful at doing so. While we were making a great income from our business there was something missing in our life. Neither us felt that we were contributing to society but just taking and we decided to make a major change in our life. That was when we heard about Curves for Women. It was a new franchise that only had 300 or so clubs and for the first time in years we both became excited at the prospect of actually helping people reach their goals. We bought our first club in 1997 located in a city of thirty thousand. From the first day it opened it was more successful than our wildest dreams. Not only were we making excellent money but the personal rewards helping people better their lives was a truly rewarding feeling. I can still remember as if it was yesterday the first time a Dr. of one of our members came in to check out what we were doing as he couldn’t believe the ch
anges his patient had gone through. She had gotten off her high blood medication and had lost over 40 pounds in 4 months. It was truly amazing and over the years we have seen it happen numerous times over and over.
We sold our first club in 2001 and bought two more franchises. My wife became a mentor for Curves International around this time and I was helping to sell franchise for Curves International as so many of are members wanted to own a club. It was at this time that we started to see problems arising with Curves International but we attributed it to the fast growth that Curves was going through. In 2002 we bought two more franchises but this time they were in what was called a metro-area instead of city under thirty thousand in population.
The first problem we encountered with Curves International was in early 2003. Curves sold a franchise that was a corridor of land between one of our franchise’s and the next city 8 miles from our southern boarder. It was obvious to us that the territory didn’t have the necessary population to support a facility and that Curves International was selling any location just out of greed and the fact that there were so many people who wanted a franchise. The people who bought that franchise tried to open up on our border but it had always been an unwritten but followed rule of Curves International that you open in the middle of your territory so that disputes between owners over stealing members from your territory didn’t arise. We immediately filed a complaint with Curves International and they stopped the new owner from opening at that location. Unfortunately for the new owners there were no other commercial locations between the two cities so they were forced into selling that franchise back to Curves International for a loss.
It was also at this time that Curves International started to change personnel. The employee’s who we had a personal relationship with that had started Curves International with Gary Heavin were leaving the company at an alarming rate. Seven employees that were the top management of Curves left or were forced out because of Gary Heavin’s greed. They ended up filling a law suit against Curves which was later settled out of court. It was at this time that Diane Heavin became involved with Curves and a whole new history was being written about how Curves was started. The original Curves member guide which was written by Gary Heavin and June Manley was taken off the market and the new Curves book authored by of course Gary Heavin was on the top 10 of the Times best seller list.. To make sure it was on the Times best seller list all the clubs had to order at least on case. That is when we as owners realized Heavin was a manipulator and not the born again Christian he portrayed to be. It was also at this time that the price to buy a franchise more than doubled in price. This came as quite a surprise as Heavin had always maintained that he would never ever increase his franchise price and he even swore on the bible in front of a group at club camp that he would never break his word on that. Well as we all know he didn’t keep that promise for long, which just shows his greed.
At this point my wife and I became quite concerned and even considered selling our business but other problems arose concerning Curves International that demanded our full attention. In 2004 another Curves location located on our boarder of one of our metro-areas hired two of our employees and stole around 15 members from our club. Both employees had signed the anti covenant not to compete and in our state those agreements are strictly enforced by the courts. We considered going to court but since it was another Curves facility we decided to file a complaint with Curves International. And to let them handle it. What a mistake that was as they did nothing. We transferred the members files but refused to transfer the money for the members dues until such time that Curves International responded to our complaint. We were told by the area director, which was a new position at Curves International, that we were trouble makers and he refused to send any of are clubs the members appreciation bags. Shortly thereafter Curves International resold the corridor of land that had been sold back to them at a loss from the previous owners and they allowed the new owners to open up in nearly the same location that they had refuse the previous owners only a year and a half before. The new owners advertised in our area and ended up getting 10 or 11 members to transfer to their club. Again we held their monthly dues but did transfer the members files. We immediately filed a complaint but again got the same response nothing. It didn’t take long for most of the members who transferred to come back to our club as the other location was small and in a very run down area and to this day that club has not shown a profit and has been sold numerous times over the years for little to nothing.
Then in 2005 the real problems with Curves International started that we are still contending with today. In one of our metro-areas a competitor by the name of Ladies Workout Express opened up right across the street from our location. Unknown to us they had hired our manager and one other employee from that location and when the employee’s left they had stolen off our computer our member files. They ended up stealing over two thirds of our membership with in a week. The employees had signed the covenant not to compete so we immediately hired a lawyer and prepared for a lawsuit. As I stated before in our state that agreement is strictly enforced but it took four months to get it into court. During this time that location was losing so much money that we decided to move the location next to our other territory so that both clubs could stay open. We sent in the required change of location form to Curves International but never heard anything back from them so we went ahead and relocated in late 05. The owners of the Ladies Workout Express eventually went broke because of the lawsuit and the fact that they would end up owing us monetary damages. They filed for bankruptcy to prevent us from collecting any monetary awards in Dec 05 but we did have the satisfaction knowing that we did what was right
In early 06 we were informed by Curves International that because we abandon that location they were terminating all of our franchise agreements. We immediately requested mediation for all of our clubs which is authorized by our franchise agreements with Curves International. We never heard back from them so we hired a lawyer in Waco, TX to represent us. He proceeded to send them a letter requesting the same mediation process and they did respond to him. They sent him letter stating that it was premature to go through the mediation process at that time as they were in the process of researching our reason for moving. Curves International continued to debit our account for the franchise and advertising fees for all the other clubs we owned but stopped talking the fees for the one territory that they stated we abandoned. The lawyer had us send Curves International a check for the fees and a new authorization form for them to deduct it from our account. Neither our lawyer or ourselves ever heard anything back from Curves International so we all assumed that things were back to normal.
In the spring of 07 we made the decision to start selling off all of our clubs and to completely retire. It didn’t take me long to sell the club we owned that wasn’t in a metro-area and I agreed to stay with the new owner’s to help train them how to run the business. We sent all the documentation into Curves International and the sale was completed by January 08. That freed my wife and I up to concentrate on our metro-area clubs and to get them ready for sale. In Feb of 08 we heard that a Curves club was opening in one of our territories within a mile of our current club. We could not understand how Curves International could do such a thing. We again filed a complaint by phone and e-mail to Curves International and several weeks later we were informed by e-mail that they didn’t know what we were talking about. We were told we didn’t own any franchises and hadn’t since we were terminated in 05. That came as quite a shock to my wife and I as our franchise and advertising fee’s had been deducted all along from our checking account and we had just recently sold a club that they were telling us we never owned. We had a local lawyer send a letter to the new owners explaining the situation and that we would be seeking legal recourse against Curves International and depending on the outcome they were opening themselves up to a potential lawsuit. During this time we had bought and paid in full for the Smart Equipment for Curves International and were waiting for the installation which was scheduled for the June 24th. On June 20th , a Friday we received a phone message telling us that the Curves Smart Installation was canceled and that we had to call Curves legal for an explanation. We left messages both e-mail and phone every 30 minutes on Monday June 23rd and finally late in the afternoon we received an e-mail stating that one of there lawyers would be in touch with us before the end of the day, They never sent an e-mail or a phone call as was promised but by mid day the next day they did respond by e-mail. It stated because of the problems with the members transfers, the fact that we abandoned a franchise, and that we had interfered with the opening of the new franchise located in our territory we weren’t approved for the Curves Smart. Yet in late May they had sent all the promotional ad material for the Curves Smart and of course we had gone to a considerable amount of expense for training the employees, advertising and promotion of the Curves Smart equipment. It was at this point that my wife and I decided that drastic action had to be taken against Heavin and Curves International.
While we still love the concept of Curves we feel that because of the deceptive and we believe fraudulent business practices that Heavin has allowed under his management Curves will eventually end up in the toilet so to speak. After spending many hours on the internet we have found that there are many lawsuits against this man and his company. Just read some of the post’s that are on franchisepick.com from owners concerning the new ten thousand fee if your club goes under and closes to the vitamins that were sold in Feb and March by Ideas in Action at a discount to owners without telling them that they would expire at the end of May. The lack of support and communication from Curves International that all of us owners are going through is intolerable. It is impossible for an owner to get through to them on the phone and good luck if you expect a call back in a timely manor. The fact that we as owners pay a lot of money for our advertising fees and have no accounting of where it is spent and a quite frankly we never see many ads in our area.
I have taken the time to do the necessary research to find several good lawyers who handle franchise law who are more than willing to help Curves owners who are having similar problems with Curves. I for one am going to go after Curves International and Gary Heavin in a court of law. These are not class action but group action lawsuit and if you don’t understand the difference contact me and I will explain it to you. There have been over 200 such lawsuit filed against Curves in the last several years and while some have been settled in mediation others are in the process of going to litigation. If you are a past or present Curves owner who has experienced these problems and want satisfaction whether it be monetary or revenge please contact me. We have several options that we can go and I for one am positive we will win as the other lawsuits have been successful so far and have set a precedent for ours. It is time for the owners of Curves franchises either past or present to stand up together and put a stop to Heavins’s ramped destruction of peoples lives just for monetary greed.
Thanks for reading our post and God Bless you all.
ARE YOU AN CURVES FRANCHISE OWNER OR FORMER CURVES FRANCHISEE?
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CURVES FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITY?
PLEASE SHARE A COMMENT BELOW.
“I learned later McCord took a percentage of the sale price, so the more profitable the club, the more he could sell it for, the more money he made. They were never really there to help the owners sell the club, just there to make another buck!”
Isn’t that the job of a broker? To make money? You begrudge them that? As a business owner you are a capitalist. If you aren’t you need to stop working for yourself and start feeding off the government teat. And “The more profitable the business, the more they could sell it for.” Really? Wow, what insight. Ever sell or buy a house? You do know that the realtor (broker) there makes a profit off the sale right? And since it too is percentage based, the more valuable the house, the bigger the commission. These are pretty basic business concepts. I seriously hope that none of the stellar business minds that post all over this blog are on your witless (not a typo) list. No wonder franchisors win these cases left and right.
The international clubs are having just as ruff of time as the US clubs and are closing just as fast. There are no longer 10000 clubs world wide as there are less than 4300 clubs left. We have nick named him Howie as he had a gone to court to change his name after he was arrested in the early 90’s for defrauding members of a health chain in Dallas with his brother. He hates the name Howard because of his past.
To guest fortunately not everyone on this blog is as cynical as you and you should do more research about McCords before you speak as it only shows how stupid you really are you dimwit.
“To guest fortunately not everyone on this blog is as cynical as you”
No, no, you’re right, nothing but sunshine and light, hope and optimism here. LOL
“and you should do more research about McCords before you speak as it only shows how stupid you really are you dimwit.”
I don’t see how my being stupid changes the fact that brokers and realtors etc… all make a commission based on the value of the sale. But hey, you’re the “expert” here. I see that someone posted recently that 258 Curves closed in Florida in 08 – so I guess you’re right, this Howie person is surely to blame for that massive closing. (and what are you? 8? “We call him Howie cause it makes him feel bad.” Wow. Are you going to get your cooties shot?)
Oh wait, that wasn’t 258 Curves closing in Fl, it was 258 (14%) of health clubs closing in Fl. To me, mind you as you pointed out I’m not so bright, but still it looks like they are saying that health clubs OTHER than Curves are closing? WOW, this Howie guy really is impressive if he is causing that much devastation to the entire health club market! Hmmmmm…kinda makes you think though that maybe just maybe something other than poor franchisor management is going on here. But like I said, you’re the “expert” and I’m SURE that you had nothing to do with the downfall of YOUR business(es). What do I know though, I’m a dimwit right? I guess we’ll find out in March (or is it August now?)
“that wasn’t 258 Curves closing in Fl, it was 258 (14%) of health clubs closing in Fl. … it looks like they are saying that health clubs OTHER than Curves are closing? WOW, this Howie guy really is impressive if he is causing that much devastation to the entire health club market!”
Guest, of course other health clubs other than Curves are closing. But Curves owners SHOULD be better off, right? After all, they spent the extra money to join the franchise chain that hypes its experience, success story, no experience necessary, we’re all in this together, more than 10,000 clubs worldwide, etc. etc. etc.?
Curves clubs are closing in droves. The point is, what is CI doing about it? What assistance are they giving struggling owners? Their owners are in crisis mode… are they? The only communication from CI reported here by franchise owners seems to be about closing fees and more payments to Curves.
It seems to me that the problem is that Gary or Howard or whatever you want to call him doesn’t seem to be agonizing over these club closures the way a concerned, conscientious “christian” franchisor should be. Even if the whole industry is struggling, franchisees joined Curves because they weren’t going to have to go it alone. It seems that not only are they alone, CI actually adds to the pressure rather than helping to relieve it.
visitor you are right not only is CI adding to the pressure of the owners Howie is the direct reason so many clubs have, are and continue to close. With him at the helm this ship is about to go down just like the Titanic.
“But Curves owners SHOULD be better off, right?”
No. During such a downturn in economic conditions no business is safe. Add to that the clearly naive business notions I’ve seen here and you are destined to fail. To assume that your franchisor should have seen this coming when the best economic minds did not is silly. It shouldn’t really be a surprise though, just like the rest of society, everyone wants to blame someone else for their failure or predicament.
“no experience necessary” [in the fitness industry]
Does that mean “no common sense necessary”? Or “no basic business sense”? I don’t think so.
“the way a concerned, conscientious “christian” franchisor should be.”
This is a BUSINESS, not a charity. If you are looking for Christian Charity, go to your local church. I don’t believe that the law requires anyone, even a Christian, to be charitable. I guess you can hope that part of the next failed bailout they will include some money for you, but if in business you have “depended on the kindness of strangers.” You should join Blanche in the nut house.
Guest:
You can drop the snide, condescending tone. You can also stop treating anyone who raises an opposing viewpoint as naive or unwilling to accept appropriate responsibility.
Of course it’s a business. Of course owning a business is a risk. Of course Heavin is not responsible for non-Curves failures. Of course no franchisor can foresee economic downturns or how a new concept will mature. Great, obvious points.
What is CI doing to address and adapt to these economic changes? How have they evolved the concept? What innovative campaigns have they come up with? New pricing strategies? New profit centers? Fresh ideas?
Take a look at a good franchise company, like McDonald’s. They are constantly adapting, testing new ideas, launching new ideas, new products, fresh ideas, repackaging old ideas. Most of their successful ideas came from collaborating with their franchisees, listening to their needs and ideas.
Curves is a one-trick pony and wants to pretend its 20 year old concept is still new and revolutionary. There’s a lot of work to be done, but CI seems content to sit back and let its dated system grow more and more obsolete and lose more and more clubs while pretending to still be at 10K and growing.
There were 18 Curves in my county in 2005. There are nine today. Go to last year’s phone book and check how many are left in your area.
I have been reading through the posts. Wish we had seen this prior to our buying JUST THIS LAST AUGUST!!! We have not made a dime and probably will not. My goal is to at least see ourselves throug this pending lease and then we will see what happens. I personally want out. I can’t believe we made such an uninformed decision! I did go through my agreement and on page 17 it states Noncompliance damages – The lesser amount between 42,840.00 or the remaining months on your franchise agreement multiplied by 1,190.00. HUH? Is it true that some states may disregard this due to their laws? I would like to find out more about this. What about Texas and Oklahoma?
Forgot to add about the noncompliance damages – this is to be paid on demand and is payable if your franchise agreement is terminated due to your default or breach.
In 07 there were 29 in my metro area now there is 9 and none are making money but just hanging on hoping for change.
I need to write letters to my Attorney General and the BBB about the unethical way our Curves has been treated by CI and I don’t know any format. Has anyone written any of these letters? I take heart in the fact that we have actually run a business Even though we have lost most of our money, we have learned lessons about management, promotion and hard work that we couldn’t have learned any other way!
I need to write letters to my Attorney General and the BBB about the unethical way our Curves has been treated by CI and I don’t know any format. Has anyone written any of these letters? I take heart in the fact that we have actually run a business Even though we have lost most of our money, we have learned lessons about management, promotion and hard work that we couldn’t have learned any other way!
to: Another Curves Owner – Talk To A Lawyer! Find out if those clauses in your contract are enforceable in your state. Find out HOW they could be enforced (or not) and decide what you want to do from there. You need the facts for your state, talk to a lawyer in your state.
to NJNow re letters to the Attorney General and the BBB.
First, write out all your concerns from your heart. Separate them and number them. Sure, some of them will be tied together, almost like opposite sides of the same coin. Don’t worry about that.
Second, for each one, figure out if there is a remedy that will make you happy. Write it down.
Third, think about how ‘reasonable’ that remedy is. If it’s reasonable, circle it.
Fourth, re-write your list. First, list “Grievances”. Then list “Reasonable Remedies”. Finally list your “Dream Remedies”.
Now your thoughts are “organized”. Call your Attorney General’s office. They may have a form to fill out instead of accepting letters. They may have a staff person who can help you. You won’t know until you call them. The more organized you sound, the more willing they will be to listen to you.
If you can’t get through to a live person at your AG’s office, call or email your state representative. You are a business person, you have a business problem and you need help resolving it. That’s all you have to say in your email to your state rep. You might get excellent help that way. If you don’t, try another one of YOUR elected officials.
If you don’t know how to find your elected officials contact info, it’s time to take the initiative to do so. Just go to google and type: who’s the elected representative for ___” (fill in your zip code). That is a starting place. There are other ways too. Look for your state’s government website. They’ll probably have a search engine for you.
You have several elected officials to help you. Your federal representatives, and your state representatives, as well as your federal senators and your state senators. They all have office staff who can help you or direct you to help. If they don’t, contact one of the other ones till you find someone who does.
Good Luck.
Sorry to hear about your nightmare with curves. . Remember to file complaints with the following.
http://www.bbb.org/
http://waco.bbb.org/WWWRoot/SitePage.aspx?site=40&id=ab5100aa-4c5a-4314-8e1b-f5996973f10c
http://www.oag.state.tx.us/consumer/index.shtml
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/index.shtml
From everything I have been reading this will probably still be considered abandonment but I will ask anyway.
Besides not making any money, now the property I am leasing has gone up for sale and the present owner does not want to keep renting and there is no where else for us to go that we can afford. Probably could not any way because of the costs that ci would charge us. Has anyone else had this kind of problem and if so what happened?
Agatha, I do believe that no matter what the reason you close and you have not forfilled your contract with CI you will receive the letter of abandoment. I begged CI to help me keep my club opened. The only thing they would do is put me to a % base IF I would sign a new contract. Who in their right mind would do that when all signs showed things would not get better because of it. I owned my Curves for 7 years and did everything in my power to keep it going. Many women relied on me and I loved my club. For over 2 years I did not tkle a paycheck and if I could at least make my bills I would still be there today. CI wanted $10,000 and me to do everything they wanted. Within 6 days they came down to $2,500. I did everything they asked EXCEPT destroy MY equiptment. That was not good enough. They wanted the money plus my equipment or no mutual release would be signed. I stuck to my guns about my equipment so needless to say I DID NOT send them the money. I got my letter of abandoment recently and now they want all furure advertising and franchise fees. WHAT FUTURE? They took that by ABANDONDING ME!!! Good Luck!
To all that think that the people on here are whiners. Who had the weight management promotion last September really help? For me it took away a partnership with weight watchers, and did not bring me any new members. Actually I have never gotten a new member from MY advertisement of the weight loss classes either.
When I asked for help from CI they told me to cut my hours. My busy time is when we open, lunch, 3 pm when our teachers come, and 5:30-6 when the working women come and we close from 1-3 pm and close at 7pm, so this advice was of no help. The other recommendation was to talk with your landlord and get the rent reduced, we pay .50 a sq ft. down from a $1 last year. I had already made that arrangement, so I said that won’t help what else do you have. Their answer was more flyers and lead bags. I am sorry I work all day and have no time for more flyers, I already put out a 1,000 a month, and my lead bags have had no good returns. I do still try them. I asked again what else? Let me tell you their next response was NO REPLY. So don’t tell me they are there for us, don’t tell me that they are helping. I had already done their recommendations before they gave them to me. Everything they gave me was just common business 101! There is no brain child at CI to help franchisees, and for the millions they were making they could have put together a really great marketing team, knowing that Curves was a fad and that they would need to add to it to keep the flames going. NOPE they did not for see the economic turn down, but I know that they should have seen a drop in membership based on statistics for fad diets and workouts.
CI would say the new flame was the curves smart, CI it was just too late, and to expensive for the so many clubs that were losing members left and right. However, they realized this quickly, it should have only taken a few months to see that projection sheets from smart clubs were not increasing memberships. They should have brainstormed and come up with a new concept. We should have a new gimmick every year to keep our member interested. No that can’t happen because you told us to rent such small places!
I give my self some credit since I was 25 when I bought my club and did not know better. I had never dieted in my life. I did not know that there was a cycle of popularity for diets and exercise programs. I just researched current data on Curves, my mistake was that Curves was not old enough, and was hitting its best years. Along with no real data for women’s fitness altogether. You live you learn, However as a Christian myself, when it comes to a person who is buried financially and trying to avoid bankruptcy you don’t try too take them for any last penny the may have. Nope you don’t, because a Christian would know that they are also to blame for their “partners” for failing. That is why Jesus said “it is more difficult for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle.” The reason for this is you can not serve two masters you can not serve money and God. Only one will rule your life and it is obviously to me which one Mr. Haven worships. One last thing I am still an open club, and should not have to shut down, however, in a year and a half I will not be renewing my club.
No matter where the cards fall, I know I am not the only passionate person on this site. I must say that I am sorry for all the grammatical errors in my previous post. I was too caught up in the topic and forgot to proof read.
Another sad story that many of us can relate to.
Chavez opened Curves in late 2003, celebrating six years this past December. “When we opened there were lines at every machine,” she said with tears in her eyes on Tuesday morning. “Today, we have about 70 members. Just not enough keep open.”
http://www.cibolabeacon.com/articles/2010/02/11/news/doc4b7495965f201897823883.txt
Well Curves International has finally stopped charging the 10,000 dollar closing fee to owners who close as the word is finally out that it is quite possibly illegal, immoral and unethical for them to do so. If any of you owners paid that fee which was usually discounted to somewhere between 2500 and 3000 dollars you need to consult with an attorney at once. You have the right to demand the extortion money for closing back from Curves. They are now sending out a list of demands for owners who inform CI of their intent to close and using the so called mutual release as leverage to make all owners comply. But they won’t let owners who request a copy of the mutual release see it until the owners comply with Curves demands. It probably is similar to the old mutual release which prevents the owners from suing curves but allows curves to sue them. They are still sending out the over night letters from UPS which are called demand letters which state they are terminating your contract for abandonment and unless you pay all remaining franchise fees and advertising fees they will turn you over to CI’s legal department. It is just a change in their strategy but they still use intimidation tactics to force owners who have lost everything into paying them more money. I guess we can start calling Howie the lizard as he can change his color but his spots are easy to distinguish. Once a crook always a crook.
Hey Unhappy–
On Jan. 14 you wrote: (quote) There has been an interesting development in the 24/7 clubs as of today but I am not in the liberty to explain what has happened as of yet but will keep you informed of what is happening on this in the next few weeks. I can tell you that Curves International is once again using underhanded and unethical tactics to try to prevent any more 24/7 clubs and to close the ones that are open. (unquote).
Do you have anymore information on this development that you can share with us?
does anyone here know how many clubs are left?
We are looking to sell ours are we keep dropping in members from 750 in 08 to 512 today and dropping.
We cant compete with planet fitnes..it wont happen.
To nolongercurvesgal,
Yes There is new news on the 24/7 clubs. Three Curves owners in Ca have been sent actual letters of termination for operating a Curves 24/7 club. One of those was actually closed at the time it received the termination letter. The other two have both stated that if they had not gone 24/7 they would have had to close so by doing what is clearly not against any conditions set forth in the franchise agreement they have been unfairly punished. Actually the owners of both of these clubs have been thankful that CI has taken this action as they are now independent clubs and seem to be thriving at this time. In the franchise agreement the only thing mentioned about a clubs hours is that there is a minimum amount of hours that one can be open. As long as you conform to the minimum amount of hours CI has no right to dictate the number of hours you are open. Curves International has sent letters out to all three clubs telling them that they are in violation and unless they stop immediately that they will file cease and desist orders against them and sue them for a trade mark violation. The funny thing here is that CI would have to get the courts in Waco TX to agree with the cease and desist order but as both of the clubs are out of states the order would be worthless and non enforceable in most states. But the owners would have to hire a attorney to fight the cases if it gets to that. It is very doubtful that Curves would even consider a legal case knowing that all it would do is to cost the owners more money when they are hurting as bad as they already are without a chance of winning the case. Curves International has also stated that if you are a 24/7 club and try to sell they will not allow the sale to go through. Obviously CI would not use that as the excuse not to allow the club transfer but some other lame excuse. Curves is using the lame excuse that the 24/7 clubs are doing damage to its Brand. What a joke!!! Howie has already done so much damage to the Curves Brand that it is doubtful that any of the clubs will be open in a year or so.
Unhappy 2
No one other that Howie knows for sure how many clubs are left . Some feel aroud 5000 or so but I belive that the number is coloser to 4250 and shrinking fast. We do know that he has started to sell master franchise overseas which is a sign that the franchise is in real trouble. The over seas clubs are closing just as fast now as here in the states and with our economy outlook here in the states getting worse by the day with no forseeable change in sight it appears things are only going to get tougher for curves owners.
Good luck on trying to sell as many owners are finding out that it is impossable to find a buyer even for a dollar and than to add insult to injury CI is now demanding a 5000 dollar trasfer fee. What a sick joke!!!!!
“We do know that he has started to sell master franchise overseas which is a sign that the franchise is in real trouble.”
Why would that be a sign of trouble. Most franchisors expand internationally by selling master franchises in other countries. Master franchisees are better able to sell and support franchises in their own countries where they know the language, customs, have real estate connections, etc.
I would say this is a sign of good judgement, not real trouble.
“As long as you conform to the minimum amount of hours CI has no right to dictate the number of hours you are open.”
Sorry, guys, but franchisees don’t have the right to change the fundamental business concept. It’s the franchisor’s brand and trademark and they have the right (obligation, even) to police the usage of that trademark. If CI does not want the trademark to be diluted by franchisees who think they’ve got the right to change the concept to 24-hours with keycard access, they’ve got the right to do so.
Do you think a McDonald’s franchisee can start selling watermelons out of a wagon in the parking lot just because he decides to? Or add Chinese food. Or add strippers… even if would boost or save their business?
If you guys want a 24 hour club, buy a 24 hour fitness franchise. but you didn’t. You bought a Curves. And if you can’t make concept you decided to open in your town successful, then you chose the wrong concept. But who do franchisees think they are that they have the right to change someone else’s business concept?
Any franchise company would terminate and sue for this and rightfully so. Take some accountability for your decisions, for heaven’s sake.
the franchise has been in real trouble for years now..
this concept is mismanaged at the corporate level.
it was a good product that was played with and damaged.
curves international SHOULD go down in the history books of business as one of the poorest run and managed businesses in the history of business. Granted there are others as well, plenty of the, but howard really should be taken to court and convicted of fraud…
I was told by robert lay that there is a story about ci in march or something that is supposed to expose ci..id be very interested ot see that if that is the case..
where did someone get the info that clubs in europe are now closing fast too?
I hope, I REALLy hope this man looses EVERYTHING he has! Bernie Madoff did, why shouldnt howard heavin..they are both unethical crooks..only one may be smoother about it..
Guest, You are correct and seeing as they’ve been selling Curves master franchises overseas for YEARS – first one was Japan and that was over 5 years ago. That kind of upsets the rumor monger apple cart. Uh-oh!
“Take some accountability for your decisions, for heaven’s sake.” – HA!
Personal responsibility is the FURTHEST thing from this guy’s mind. This joker thinks that Curves is the ONLY business that shouldn’t have any troubles during such crap times and the ONLY reason it is in trouble is because of Heavin. Of course it is, there’s NO other POSSIBLE reason that HE failed at business. Yes, yes, it’s all someone else’s fault. LOL
Let the personal attacks begin!
to guest on
“Do you think a McDonald’s franchisee can start selling watermelons out of a wagon in the parking lot just because he decides to? Or add Chinese food. Or add strippers… even if would boost or save their business?”
I have been to McDonalds where there are waiters, a grand piano, and odd menu items. Their franchises are not being closed down by adding these things. If I am not mistaken most people love to visit the Manhattan McDonalds with the grand piano. The McDonalds that has the waiters was written about in USA Today six or seven years ago. This is of course not exactly what the Franchise had planed, but these places are not closed. Not everything is dictated by the franchisor. The food items vary by region, and by country. I don’t think anyone would go to some of your extremes.
So let’s talk about this uniformity you speak of at Curves. Example, go in to a Curves in one town and visit another in the next town. The machines, clothing, and the name are the only things they have in common. The size, colors, open times, is water sold or free, stretching area and just everything else is all different. This company was not built on uniformity like Subway. CI let each person design their club, and operate their club with guidelines. We were given a phone script, and most clubs never followed it.
You are a joke, and need to go back to where you came from. If you believe for one second that Curves has an image, then tell me what is that image? Wait I know clothing that fades as soon as you wash it and machines that are not the same in every club. Hours that change from town to town (I am not talking about 24/7 clubs). This is crazy! Lets just face it we were a fad and now it is over, with nothing new to give, women are leaving.
That story which will be on a notional new program was scheduled to be released after the group action trail was over which was scheduled for March 21 but once again that trail has been put off until Aug of 2010. The program will be aired after the trail depending on the out come of the and if the litigants win which should be a sure thing as Zarco is the best.
Also club insider a national fitness magazine has done an article on Curves as well exposing the fraud of Curves.
Not only are the UK clubs closing but the clubs in Australia are closing also as the number of people who have requested advice oh what and how to handle the closures has picked up dramatically.
“I have been to McDonalds where there are waiters, a grand piano, and odd menu items.”
I guarantee you none of those things were added without prior submission and approval by McDonald’s Corp. There’s a big difference between calculated, approved variations and just letting franchisees run amock changing the concept anyway they please… letting the inmates run the asylum, so to say.
You think McDonald’s would let franchisees install a keycard so customers could come in and self-serve themselves? Maybe… but if they did, it would be tested, refined and fully developed before franchisees would be allowed to try it.
What about security issues of having women alone in your building at 4 am? You’ve really thought out all the safety and liability issues involved? 24/7 franchisees create liability issues for the franchisor without even researching or investigating.
“Lets just face it we were a fad and now it is over, with nothing new to give, women are leaving.”
So women don’t want to come to Curves… and your solution is allow them to come alone at 3:30 am? Wait… who’s the joke again?
People like Next Step have already given up and just want someone to blame. Maybe you shouldn’t have invested your financial future into a fad concept… or joined a franchise with “no brand image.” Ever think of that?
to unhappy regarding the closing of clubs in the uk and australia..is this fact?
not saying you are mistaken, just wondering if it is as bad abroad as it is in the us
where did you get this info?
unhappy, regarding the article, where can i find a copy?
Guest,
What rock did you crawl out from under? One of the original founder of Curves now works for a fitness center similar to curves but is co-ed and is open 24/7 and is growing faster than curves ever did. Furthermore guest you don’t have enough information on what is going on with curves. It’s real funny that curves international doesn’t enforce the aspects of the franchise agreement that they should in order to help owners from other owners that have broken the rules causing unfair completion between curves clubs but tries to intimidate owners into not doing something that is obviously not against the franchise agreement and is helping owners. EVER THINK ABOUT THAT GUEST1111111111 I didn’t think so so act like a f— and blow in the wind.
you are right, he is now selling snap fitness franchises isnt he?
not only that they will run into the same problem as curves did..too many too close…
the difference being snap fitness is much more of a fitness facility than curves ever was..
there are already snap fitness clubs listed for sale because of the very reason that they are too close together..
“to unhappy regarding the closing of clubs in the uk and australia..is this fact?”
Facts? Since when is ANY post here required to actually be based in fact? There are more “facts” in a half hour of Access Hollywood than on this entire blog! STOP being unreasonable!
other guest
Maybe just maybe you should quit watching Access Hollywood and tune in to Glen Beck. Oh I’m sorry that probably offended you because you voted for the man of change. Well how to you like it now, is that change good enough for you. That is the one thing that Howie has in common with the obama administration, the change that no one likes. Most of the stories on this blog are real stories about how owners have been and continue to be ripped off. It has gotten so bad that Curves International is trying to get owners who’s contract are coming up within the next 6 to 8 months to renew and now are offering a 2 year agreement and if you refuse they will come back and beg you to sign up for a 1 year term. If you still refuse that will as of today started to let owners go for a month to month contract. Now you will probably say that CI is so great for doing that but you are wrong. They are that desperate to keeps curves clubs going so they can get their dues and add fess that they are actually offering a month to month contract. I have received confirmation of that from an owner who whose contract isn’t up until late in the summer and Tammy Rose just sent her an e-mail offering her a month to month contract. That is sick and just shows how low Howie will stoop.
unhappy 2 you can buy a subscription to club Insider on line and maybe able to read it there or possibly at the library.
LOL, you are even denser than I suspected. Clearly I was pointing out that something with as little redeeming value as Access Hollywood was more concerned with getting things accurate than you. But, just like Business 101, that slipped right by you.
As to the rest of your rant. Say what? What does any of that garbage about Obama have to do with anything here? Well, other than it gives you yet ANOTHER person to blame for your failure. Thank you for continuing to prove the points of your critics here.
Yes, yes, we’ll all find out when you go to court and win big. Wasn’t that supposed to happen last year? Oh wait, no, make that March, oh no now August. Funny how OTHER people knew and were able to post that before you! LOL
Guest On
You really just suck. Either you are a new franchise with stars in your eyes, you work for corporate, or you just want to try to show you are better then us.
As for myself I have not given up, but I do say that no matter how hard I did everything according to the Curves way. I failed. It is probably because I had no experience in fitness when I started, and that is my fault. The other reasons are my neighboring Curves clubs did nothing the Curves way. We are out here all on our own trying to stab each other in the back.
I don’t know if the waiters at McDonalds were approved, but I do know that their franchise structure is a lot different then Curves. I really hate when people get on this site and compare foundation franchises to these little start ups. However, corporate visits there franchises regular. Guess what? No one has ever come to my club in the past 5 years. I was just a foolish girl when I bought my club with enough good credit to get myself in way to deep. Now after 5 years I still have not written myself a paycheck, and I know that I never will. I do hope that we stay open and make it through these “tough times” but really I never had any good times.
As for the brand I really did think that Curves had something go for it, but after 5 years I see that it really doesn’t.
I know what it has going for it over sold franchise areas, no help from corporate and in my area no owner want to even talk to each other. It would be great if they would send me the money for transfers.
“You really just suck.” – Next Step
“act like a f— and blow in the wind.” – unhappy
Classy, impressive group here.
What, actually, do you people want? Are you actually fighting for some change or do you just like to complain & insult those who disagree with you?
You bought into a fitness franchise which NS says is passe and yesterday’s fad. What can CI do to change that?
Is it Blockbuster’s fault their concept became obsolete and their franchises are closing? Is it Blockbuster’s fault people aren’t renting videos?
What is it “Howie” could do and how will it make your life better?
there is a lot that Howie could do such as spend our advertising money an ads instead of using it tp promote the sales of franchise over seas or to pay for his wife Diane who was never a part of curves but now is a founding member and Olivia Newton John to walk the wall in China. How about helping the club owners build revenue streams instead of building just revenue streams for Curves international. How about lowering the franchise and advertising fee instead of telling owners to ask for a reduction in rent. Lets see now how about not ripping the club owners off on wellness members or excessive charges for merchandise with the curves logo. How about answering the phones when a club has problem instead of just an answer machine and never getting back to the club. How about enforcing the contract and stopping neighborhood clubs from advertising in your protected territory. How about telling g the truth to the owners instead of telling lies like he has on why the clubs shouldn’t become 24/7. How about running your business with ethics, moral, integrity instead of the false promises and lies. How about selling the franchise before its too late and let a replicable CEO run the business. All of these would be start in the right direction but for heaven sakes don’t hold your breath for any of it to happen as a snake like Howie isn’t likely to change his corrupt ways.
To the Guest who has been posting about general rules of franchise agreements and policies protecting franchisors’ brands:
Curves International has used a variety of different contracts with franchisees over the past decade. I owned two different contracts. In both of my contracts I was given the express right to determine my own hours of operation as long as I maintained open hours to the public between 9 and 11 am and 3 and 7pm, on Mondays thru Fridays (with the exception of certain holidays on which I was allowed to be closed).
I think all of us need to remember that most of the franchisees who are posting here are familiar with what Curves expected of us, and that our contractual obligations as franchisees were generally much more liberal than most other franchisees. To those who have not seen those types of Curves Contracts, they may be very surprised at the wide latitudes we were expressly given in our contracts. When I did my research, that was one of the thngs about this business that appealed to me. I wanted that freedom of entreprenuership, and Gary Heavin (aka Howie) used to promote that part of this franchise relationship.
I would also like to remind all of us that we need to read the fine print. Curves International makes many broad demands that are in conflict with some of the contracts but not necessarily all of them. You can only protect yourself by reminding yourself what is in your contract.
Good luck.
btw
■unhappy on February 20th, 2010 12:14 am
I COMPLETELLY agree with that post! (about what could be done to improve Curves)
but not the post about Glenn Beck and Obama. Can we keep those politics off of this board?
“I was given the express right to determine my own hours of operation”
Correct me if I’m wrong, but going 24/7 means that you are giving keycard access to members for after-hours use, correct? And I assume that you are not staffing the club 24/7? So it’s kind of like self-service exercise where a woman can come in at 3 am and exercise alone (unsupervised) or with a few others?
Is unstaffed, unsupervised, self-service exercise part of the Curves concept? No? Then this isn’t an “hours” issue, is it?
What about safety issues? Crime? What about AED (automated external defibrillators) laws? I’m sure you’ve researched and weighed the liability you’ll have if a member goes into cardiac arrest and no one is there to help.
Maybe you’d all be better off just focusing on implementing the concept rather than reinventing your own version without adequate thought, experience or planning.