JAN-PRO Franchise Complaints

723 thoughts on “JAN-PRO Franchise Complaints”

• jerry,

  This is Dave. We spoke before. My computer crashed and I loss your contact info. Please contact me.

• jerry/dave:
  We don’t post personal contact info. However, if each of you emails permission to exchange to unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com I’ll forward it to each of you.
  Thanks.

• I’ve owned a Jan-Pro franchise for years. I’ve experienced the good and the bad (mostly bad). But, I’ve learned one Very important thing. You see, I’ve also started my own cleaning business and have several accounts that are not a part of Jan-Pro. The problem is they continuosly pester the contacts at the jan pro accounts. If you went out to eat and the manager asked, “hows the food”, you reply it’s fine, then the waiter asks the same question, then the busboy stops over 2 minutes later and asks you again, wouldn’t you start to look for something wrong? That’s exactly what Jan-Pro does. they call from the office, then the ops manager stops in, then they want you to go in and get an evaluation (all in the same month). This causes problems. In my other business, I don’t bother the customers at ALL. They have my number, I call them ONCE every few months, and guess what? They don’t cancel or complain. Jan Pro is actively looking to take accounts away and resell them to another franchise owner, that is why they constantly pester exisiting customers until they complain, and then voila! There goes your account.

• Allen:

  I’m glade to see that you are taking steps to remove the “middle man” from the picture. I strongly encourage everyone to do the same.

  I have been in this business for almost 30 years and have never been so disappointed as to what I personally witnessed as an Operations Manager.

  Change is coming — I guarantee it.

• Wow. Being an “insider” allows me to compare properly from when I owned my own business and what I have seen as an Operations Manger, Director of Sales and Regional Manager for various owner/operator companies. Lots of misplaced anger out there, if you want to be angry at someone or some company, here’s where your anger should be placed.

  Jan-Pro International or any Master Franchisor has an obligation to properly train, support, supervise their “regional operators”. That is where the fault lies, they accept money for the rights to a specific geographic area, they do not properly train nor follow up with that person on a regular basis. There are numerous “Master Owners” that I have had the pleasure to meet and see that they are quality people and are doing “right” by their unit franchisees and the actual contract cleaning customer.

  However, you get some bad apples with every lot, because Jan-Pro International and others don’t do a proper screening initially, and they certainly don’t follow up and through with them on a continual basis, you get regions that are managed/owned by people that aren’t in the business under the correct circumstances and guidance.

  Take the time to review the FDD, take the time to call all/most of the owner/operators listed in the FDD and see what they say about the regional master franchisor. Don’t just call one or two, you need to call at least a dozen. If they don’t have a dozen, call all listed.

  Owner Operator systems are vastly superior to “traditional companies” both in customer retention and business relationships.

  Be mad at the corporate office, demand from them to do a better job of screening their current and prospective regional masters.

• I’m Jerry V or 1st Amendment. So that there is no confusement I’am not the jerry that posted at 3:54 pm. Maybe we happen to have the same name. I’m posting this so that other people don’t get confused.

  I disagree with what you said about there only being a few Bad Apples. From my experience and from all the calls from around the country that I have received it seems to me like the whole company is bad. I have received close to 100 calls from people of diferent states and cities. It’s not just a few bad apples but the whole tree is bad. I have received calls from people in 25 diferent states and Canada.

  The way I see it the whole corporation is bad.

• Look at the numbers, look at the states effected, When you have literally 7500 owner/operators throughout a system, you are going to have some unhappy campers for sure. If you had 7500 employee’s, you would have at least 100 people that would complain and say their employer was a lier, cheat, thief etc…

  Hold Jan-Pro International accountable for not training, supervising, inspecting their Master Franchisee’s. Those are the “bad apples” that I’m referring too. Look at states like Indiana, Kentucky and some others, they are poorly run, managed and have numerous franchisees listed that are unhappy.

  We are speaking the “same language”, you want to “throw the baby out with the bath water!”. That’s where you and a lot of others loose credibility and standing both legally and morally. For every “one” disenchanted franchisee, I can find no less than 10 “happy”. Though one is too many, the organization as a whole must improve and to improve, they must choose better master franchisors.

• So there is no confusement I’m Jerry V or 1st Amendment. This is in responce to the other so called J person. It’s funny how you posted that jan-pro has 7500 people when recently they were boasting that they had 10,000 fake franchisees. If they lost 2,500 people that is a huge amount of loses. To me that is devastating.

  Every person that has called me or talked to me has told me that they can find alot of people in the office that they work from that are very unhappy and that are geting ripped-off.

  Most people are very scared of jan-pro. Jan-pro uses scare tactics. . Some people don’t know what to do and many as I talked to on the phone have broken down and cried.
  Do you know how many anonimous e-mails and phone calls I get? People are verry scared and they fear retaliation from jan-pro.

  Have you seen all the post on the many diferent websites?
  Have you seen all of the magazine articles against jan-pro?
  Have you seen the Television special were jan-pro was exposed?
  Have you read the article were a court said that this was a like a modified Ponzi Scheme?

  If everybody wasn’t scared of retaliation from jan-pro then I’m willing to bet that 7400 franchisees out of 7500 are getting Ripped-Off and very UNHAPPY with jan-pro. For every happy franchisee I can find 100 that are miserable and getting Ripped-off by jan-pro.

  Plain and simple the whole corporation is bad, from headquarters to the mastor franchisors. The whole tree is bad. I wish I could tell you more but I’m saving it for when we go to trial.

• Before you invest in a Franchise from Jan-Pro please do your homework. This is far from a true business (you are an underpaid contracted janitor), you have no control of the business whatsoever. You are dealing with sales people (they sell a franchise to you, they sell cleaning services to other business and Jan-Pro will sell the account to you) that’s the true nature of the business. It is not about you as a franchisee, the more the can turn over an account and the more franchises they sell the more profit for them not for you. I will like to invite Jan Pro corporate gophers reading this complaint board to provide some real numbers: how many franchises sold in the last ten years and how many active franchises making profits? How many times an account is resold on average to franchisees? I really doubt you can provide real answers without compromising the corporation business model.
  To me this boils down to ethics in business. This copied cleaning business model had been taken to an unethical level, and now had been taken to the United States Supreme Court in order to stop the abuse.

• Interesting, makes me wonder why so many people “hate” one company. If that were the case, how does Jan-Pro, Jani-King, Coverall and others continue to grow. If what Jerry V. and others were saying were 100% true, how would any of the buildings get cleaned that each one of these companies has contracts for.

  Jani-king does over 1 billion dollars per year in contract services/janitorial business alone. Does not include franchise sales.

  Jan-Pro does over 600 million dollars per year in contract services/janitorial business alone. Does not include franchise sales.

  Coverall does over 500 million dollars per year in contract services/janitorial business alone. Does not include franchise sales.

  Bottom line, if “everyone” was not making money, if “everyone” was not happy as a “franchisee” then how do these guys still keep growing as far as actual cleaning contracts?

  The facts, being asked for by Felix, most do not exist in the “master” or “corporate level”. Those are in the “franchisees” hands to determine. My experience with Jan-Pro is on a “local” basis only. I worked for a Master, that had approx. 40 active “z’s”. Out of those, vast majority were “happy”, some “ok”, few “unhappy”. The master was a poor example of a “textbook” master franchisee, that’s why I continue to say, business model “flaw” is with the choosing of the “master” not of the corporation as a whole.

  You come across as “bitter” about what may or may not have happened to you as a “z”, you may have a legitimate gripe against the “master”, but I doubt seriously you have the “standing” to fault the Model or the Corporation. If you did, Jani-King, the originator of this model, wouldn’t be in the business for over 40 years, even BSCAI has recognized franchise operations such as Office Pride, Jani-King, Openworks and others in their format.

• Jerry, do you want to hear something really interesting?

  FACT: The business model to which you refer actually violates the law in Illinois.

  FACT: Happy or not, individuals in this State, are being taken advantage of.

  FACT: Some of the franchisees themselves are operating in violation of the law.

  FACT: Everyone must follow the law, agree with it or not.

  FACT: The end of this business model is near.

  OPINION: As in most cases, the greed and unethical acts of a few, will cause pain to all those involved.

  YOUR QUESTION: If what they are doing violates the law, why are they allowed to continue operating?

  RESPONSE: Good question. The only answer I can offer is that most State Officials are un-aware of the specific operating methods employed. That is going to change.

  WHY NOW? Because one master franchise owner stepped on the wrong person.

• This is in response to the other ( Jerry ) This is Jerry Vazquez or as some of you know me
  1st Amendment.

  1. You said “why is it that so many people hate jan-pro“. It’s because they are ripping of so many people and destroying families. You to would be very angry if they were Ripping you off or your family and taking food away from your kids. If you would hear the horror stories that I have heard from single Moms, Veterans, or Families you to would be very angry at jan-pro. I’m sure that if someone ripped you off for Thousands of Dollars you to would be very mad.

  2. You wondered how they all stay in business. That’s because not everybody has heard of these fake cleaning franchisors. There is 300 Million people in this country. Most people have never heard of these FAKE franchisors. If you go and talk to your average person they will tell you that they have never heard of these cleaning franchisors. That is why they keep getting more people to buy there FAKE franchises. They lie to you on there sales pitch and you fall for there Lies, Deception, and FRAUD! Remember Bernard Madoff kept his Ponzi scheme going for many many years he was able to rip-off the Rich and Powerful. We are in a different category we are not rich or powerful it is harder for us to take action against these companies because we don’t have the resources to defend ourselves from there scam.

  3. Bottom line is people are not making money. They are TERIFIED of jan-pro. Jan-pro Threatens people! Many people are scared of jan-pro retaliating against them! Many people have told me that they are making less than minimum wage but that jan-pro threatens them so they are forced into staying.

  4. I get anonymous e-mails all the time. People call me all the time but they ask me not to mention there names because they are very scared of jan-pro. I have talked to ladies on the phone who have cried because of what jan-pro did to them. Now I’m not saying every single person is scared of jan-pro but most are very scared of jan-pro.

  5. I have had People in the military call me and tell me how jan-pro ripped them off, how can they do that to people who are sacrificing there lives for us to have freedom. I have had single moms call me and tell me how jan-pro ripped them off. I have had families call me and tell me how jan-pro ripped them off. This is disgustingly sick. I think it’s time the Government and the Attorney General looked into it . I feel that they are in violation of the Rico and Racketeering Acts.

  6. Jan-pro has many complaints on http://www.ripoffreport.com

  7. Janiking also has many complaints on http://www.programcritique.com

  8. Jan-pro and janiking have many complaints on http://www.Pissedconsumer.com

  9. Janiking has many complaints in England on this site http://www.able2know.com they have over 15 pages and over 100 complaints.

  10. Jan-pro, janiking, coverall and cleannet all have many complaints in complaintsboard.com and there is more websites with complaints on all of these companies.

  11. All of these companies coverall, janiking, and jan-pro have many complaints on
  http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com

  12. Janiking has many Lawsuits. According to an article I read on Franchisetimes.com “Taking off the Gloves” janiking has 52 pieces of LITIGATION ! Coverall has settled 26 Lawsuits and I know of at least 7 Lawsuits against jan-pro. At the moment we are waiting for Class Action Certification in the National Class Action Lawsuit against Jan-pro.

  13. I don’t believe that jan-pro, janiking or coverall make that much money every year. You need to prove it. It sounds to me like you are just making stuff up and like a monkey your just throwing it on the wall to see what sticks. Now lets just say that if it was true then it would only be because they keep Ripping of so many people specially new people who have never heard of jan-pro. Remember there is over 300 Million people in the United States. They take accounts away from one person and resale that account a few times. It’s an ongoing PONZI SCHEME! I have talked to people who have told me that they have been sold accounts were they were the 5th person to buy an account! That means that if jan-pro sales an account that they charge $2,000.00 Dollars a month and they sale this account 4x times a months gross amount to 5 different people that is $40,000 Dollars that jan-pro makes plus all the fines, interest and other fees they will make allot of money from this Racket! If they can just simply take an account from you then you own NOTHING! You are paying jan-pro to allow you to work an underbid account were most likely you will make less than minimum wage.

  14. You said that jan-pro keeps growing? Recently the president of jan-pro said that he had 10,000 franchisees. Then the other day you posted that they only had 7500. This means that they lost 2,500 people. This to me is devastating. Get your facts straight. I’m wondering if they are also counting the people who left jan-pro 5 years ago? Also how many of these people who bought a fake franchise with jan-pro bought the lowest package of $1,000? You yourself stated that you work for jan-pro and that your master franchisor only had 40 active people. If your average master franchisor has 40 people you are Not in any way going to get close to 7500 much less 10,000 people. But since you work for jan-pro you have to come in here and LIE and be DECEPTIVE.

  15. You Refuse to answer Felix Question. His Question was

  “I will like to invite Jan Pro corporate gophers reading this complaint board to provide some real numbers: how many franchises sold in the last ten years and how many active franchises making profits? How many times an account is resold on average to franchisees? I really doubt you can provide real answers without compromising the corporation business model”.

  Your answer was the following

  “The facts, being asked for by Felix, most do not exist in the “master” or “corporate level”.

  I hope that anyone looking at buying a fake franchise with jan-pro reads this because here they can read at how you try and hide the facts. I mean seriously how can you say that jan-pro doesn’t have those stats? You have got to be really kidding me. Basically you are just lying. We all know that jan-pro doesn’t want to release those facts because those numbers would be very devastating!

  Corbin Williston of http://www.bluemaumau.com in his recent article “Franchising sounds like a Ponzi Scheme” said that “Janitorial franchisees have long been a source of embarrassment for the franchising industry”

  16. The whole corporation is bad the Whole TREE is BAD. I have had calls from people in 25 different states. I have even had people from Canada call me! The master franchisor was a jerk on the phone when I called him and I‘m not the only one saying this but there has been many people who have called him and he was a jerk to them to. When I called Corporate they told me that they couldn’t help me and other people who call corporate got the same response.

  17. You said that I come across biter because of what may or may not have happened to me. What kind of statement is that? Yes I’m Mad because me and so many people around the country and Canada have been ripped-off . Yes we do have proof that we were rip-off. Infact I’m hoping that government officials like the Attorney General would look into jan-pro because I feel that they are in violation of the Rico and Racketeering Acts!

  18. Did you see the Special report on jan-pro were they were EXPOSED. They showed many people who were getting ripped-off . Many ladies came out and said that they never got there full business completed and that jan-pros checks were bouncing. When some of these ladies went to complain jan-pro kicked them out of the office. How would you feel if you went to complain over a bounced check and they kicked you out. Jan-pro promised to fix this situation and so far it has been a few months and they haven’t fixed anything.

  Jan-pro was recently exposed on Telemundo channel 52 in a program called AL Rojo Vivo with reporter Maria Celeste. Here is the website so that you can see it.

  http://msnlatino.telemundo.com/shows/Al_Rojo_Vivo/video_player?uuid=7d4cfdb4-97e0-4799-9b76-6a38d058e95f

  Did you notice how some of the ladies had there faces covered. That’s because many people are very scared of retaliation from jan-pro. Ask yourself this why does the FTC warn people about buying a cleaning Franchise?

  19. You say that I don’t have the standing to fault the model of the corporation. You have got to be kidding me. They straight out rip-off people by underbidding accounts, by taking accounts away for no reason which is THEFT! and FRAUD! Sorry chump but that is not a business model that is straight out THEFT, FRAUD and a RACKET!

  20. You say that BSCAI has recognized some of these cleaning franchisors. I wonder how many Millions of Dollars they have paid them. Seriously, you have got to be Kidding me. Do you even know how much money they pay magazines like Entrepreneur or the IFA International Franchising Association? I bet it’s in the Millions. They are at the moment lobbying the legislature so that we are not allowed to take legal action and you know that takes allot of money to do. On April 8 the IFA sent a letter to the Massachusetts senator Thomas McGee, Chairman of the legislatures joint committee on workforce development. I just hope that Senator Thomas McGee sees the Scam that these Fake cleaning franchisors are pulling and puts a stop to there FRAUD.

  21. Finally I leave you with this in March of 2010 a Federal Judge said that a cleaning franchisor’s business model sounds like a description for a Modified Ponzi Scheme.

• You are a bitter person, no doubt. Rant and Rave all you want, If you were as ripped off as you say, File a LAWSUIT!!!!! You can take the local “Master” to small claims court for standing, if you have a case, you’ll be able to get numerous attorney’s regardless of where you live to take a case on contingency basis.

  BSCAI is an independent organization, you obviously don’t know what you are saying about an independent organization made up of no one or nothing but commercial cleaning companies and executives of chemical distritbutors, manufacturers of cleaning equipment etc…

  It’s not a FRAUD!!! Perform and there is no reason, issue or legal standing that Jan-Pro, Jani-King, Coverall or others would have.

  7500 unit franchisees talked about are Jan-Pro’s numbers internal U.S. only!!!

  Other than calling you “BITTER”, I never called you a derogatory name. It just shows your lack of class. It also shows, since you refuse to file a lawsuit on your own, that you lack standing in a court.

  Jani-King and ServiceMaster per your statement have been ripping people off for over 40 YEARS!!!! Don’t you think after all that time, if you are correct, that someone bigger, wealthier, smarter and obviously of greater character than you would have won a major lawsuit against them!!

  In regards to Felix’s comments, no, Corporate office of Jan-Pro, Jani-King, ServiceMaster or I’m sure others do not have that information, that is left up to the local Master to track, The local Master is also responsible for the FDD which is mandatory.

  Question: You’ve obviously were a “z” at one time, why didn’t you bother calling all of the other “z’s” listed in the FDD before purchasing, if as FRAUDULANT as you make them out to be, why didn’t all of the other “z”s” on that list tell you BUYER BEWARE!!!!!

  You are nothing but a bitter, little man, you need to either PUT UP or SHUT UP!!!!

• Also,

  In regards to the “size” of the various companies, you can find that information out a number of ways, easiest is through BSCAI, but you can search other sources as well including the respective companies websites and of courst MANTA.

  If people are being “threatened”, then they have the right to and an obligation to file a Lawsuit, they need to report these infractions to the BBB, they need to file criminal complaints etc….

  As I originally stated, you can RANT, RAVE, act like an IDIOT all you want, but you’ve done nothing, haven’t filed a lawsuit on your own, haven’t filed a complaint with BBB etc….

  Go back to PUT UP or SHUT UP!!!!!!

• I need some clarification on some statements from the “other Jerry” please:

  This is from your previous postings:

  “Jan-Pro does over 600 million dollars per year in contract services/janitorial business alone. Does not include franchise sales.”

  “When you have literally 7500 owner/operators throughout a system, you are going to have some unhappy campers for sure. If you had 7500 employee’s, you would have at least 100 people that would complain and say their employer was a lier, cheat, thief etc…”

  If the math is right $600,000,000 / 7500 = $80,000 gross per year per franchisee. Wow, that is good business. I am sorry but to me it does not compute, not matter what. However, I see a good sales pitch on the numbers.

• At the Jan-:Pro that I was associated with, we had over 40 active owner/operators. We had 6 to 8 that were “billing’ in excess of $100,000.00 per year, our top one was “billing” in excess of $180,000.00 per year. We were relatively small.

  At one meeting that I went to in Atlanta, the top “z” was doing in excess of $500,000.00 per year in business. Not too shabby.

  I agree fully, that there are issues at Jan-Pro, probably at Jani-King and others, but the “system” as a whole isn’t flawed. It’s the choosing of the “masters” and the fact that the “corporate” entity doesn’t do a proper job of screening those “masters” and “oversite” of them.

  Can’t simply “throw out the baby, with the bath water”. Jerry V. wants to make corporate pay for issues possibly related to the “master”. Again, Jerry V. was obviously a former “z” and he has a grudge, might be “right” to be angry, as possibly some of the others, but as a whole, Jan-Pro isn’t a terrible company, needs better management, probably, Rich Kissane wouldn’t have been my choice for CEO, he failed miserably as CEO of OneSource, he was “handed his hat” and basically “thrown out” by Cheryl Jones and Tom Persinger. If you want to “go after” something or someone, do better research.

• To all of those seeing stars in your eyes with lawsuits, the coverall case went to trial in Massachusetts. The judge threw out the class action portion of the suit and limited the lawsuit to one franchisee. The franchisee lost to coverall and is required to pay court costs of more than $200,000. I am a former franchisee who has dropped out of Jan Pro and have cooled my jets about filing a lawsuit after reading this.

• To Joe who I will refer to as “joe the joker”

  Do not believe what joe the joker is saying he is just someone from corporate trying to scare people. These cleaning franchisors have a history of trying to intimidate us. The trial is not over and the Fight for Justice will never end until we all get Justice. How can you tell that this guy is someone from corporate? Very easily by the words he uses like how he said “seing stars in your eyes” or that he has “cooled his jets down abvout filling a lawsuit” Did joe the joker from corporate forget to read the following.

  The Judge on the coverall trial already said that the way coverall operates is like a modified PONZI SCHEME and gave the coverall plaintifs Summary Judgement. He already rulled that they are Misclafified. I read his 11 page Rulling were he states that this is a modified Ponzi Scheme and rulled that the coverall people are misclasified and that they are employees. Infact coverall is now trying to use a diferent system and I read that they are going to give everyone TIME CARDS. coverall has also stoped selling there fake franchises in Massachusetts. Ask any Lawyer and they will tell you that all of these cleaning franchisors are missclasifying there people. The number one thing I would like to see is these people go to jail and stop them from Ripping-off so many people.

  Don’t let the Trolls from the cleaning franchisors fool you, lie to you, scare you or try and intimidate you. We will keep on Fiting until we get Justice.

• Well, Jerry V. or “1st amendment”, seems like you really are a little “lazy”. You talk about everyone elses “lawsuit”, where’s yours? Print the “case number” so we can verify.

  Said it before, say it again, PUT UP OR SHUT UP!!!!!

  You call everyone else, chump, joker etc….. but the proof’s in the pudding, coverall is not changing their model at least not in Indiana.

• This is in response to “ J from Indiana ”

  I’m going to respond to your three other post one at a time. I will start by responding to the first one you posted on June 7 at 5:14 pm. Who ever you are all I know is that we can’t trust you or believe anything that you say. One day you said that you were an insider and then you said that you owned your own business and then you said that you used to also be an operations manager. Then you tell us that jan-pro has 7500 fake franchisees but we hear something else from jan-pro. Then you tell us that you don’t know how many people have left jan-pro and that you have no way of knowing that but you say that you are an INSIDER.. What are you trying to hide? It’s funny how Mc Donald’s knows how many hamburgers and fries they have sold but you a jan-pro INSIDER doesn’t know how many people have left jan-pro or how many fake franchisees they have. Then you tell us that you go to jan-pro conventions and that you know Richard kissane. More and more you sound like one of those fast talking fast selling sales managers at jan-pro. It seems to me like you are someone’s monkey throwing mud pies at the wall to see what sticks.

  You say that I’m bitter and a ranter. Are you then saying that when people get ripped-off they should just keep quiet, shut up and take it and say nothing? I bet that jan-pro would love that. I bet that if you got ripped-off, If your Mom got ripped-off or if they took food from your kids mouth then I bet you to would be mad. Then I bet you wouldn’t call it being bitter.

  If you talk to independent business owners and I’m referring to your Mom and Pop cleaners they will all tell you that you can’t trust the bscai. They have executives and manufacturers. Just like the IFA they are not independent they have lobbyist in Washington trying to change the laws so that they can hurt us the average person trying to make a living by working hard.

  Yes it is a Fraud! We will prove it soon when we go to trial. It’s also Deceit, Theft and Racketeering. I feel that they are in violation of the Rico and Racketeering acts. We need to get this information to an Attorney general.

  So you are saying that if someone doesn’t contact every single person that works for jan-pro then it’s ok for jan-pro to rip them off ??? Are you then saying that you as a jan-pro insider, or operations manager that you are ok with Ripping people off. How can you sleep at night? However I find it interesting how a reporter for Franchisetimes.com that wrote a recent article on all the lawsuits against cleaning franchisors called many people and they were either not there, had disconnected numbers, or didn’t want to talk. How strange don’t you think. How many people that left jan-pro 5 years ago are they still counting as active? Better yet how many people disconnected or changed there phone numbers because jan-pro kept harassing them and intimidating them ?

• Jerry V. Still acting like a “bitter baby”. You failed to answer any of my statements in regards to “your standing” , where’s yuor “case number”, where’s your “skin in the game”, You act like there’s no responsibility at all on the “z’s” part in all of this.

  So, let’s end this “discussion”. Until YOU PROVE, that you’ve got a real stake and aren’t some “tag along”, you have little to no value in the discussion.

• Hey First amendment. Please don’t misrepresent what went on. The Judge can say anything he wants, but in the end coverall won the suit and the plantiffs have to pay court costs. There is no money in lawsuits these days. The only people who get rich are the lawyers.

  I happen to believe that you are a lawyer trying to stir things up to get more people willing to risk their money to try a lawsuit. I am not willing to do that.

• In response to someone who calls himself ( Joe )

  Now it’s very obvious that you are someone from corporate. You claim to have been an x franchisee but it’s very clear that you are only someone from corporate trying to Intimidate us, scare us and lie to us. I have seen jan-pro use these tactics in the past against me and other people. I have seen jan-pro intimidate and try and scare people. To everyone out there reading this Don’t fall for it and don’t let them intimidate you. To this person who calls himself ( joe ) I will not be intimidated any more. By the things you posted we can tell that you are only a wolf in sheep’s clothing.

  The lawsuit is not over. Infact the Plaintiff’s Won Summary Judgment. Lawsuits take a long time. It’s a long procedure. We are only at the beginning. It’s funny how you say that what the Judge said doesn’t mater. I wonder then why the IFA immediately sent letters and lobbyist to senator Thomas McGee In Massachusetts. I wonder then why the IFA is desperately trying to change the Laws. If what the Judge said wouldn’t mater then why would so many franchisor law firms be scrambling like mice and having meetings and webinars all over the country. Infact in a recent webinar that was held by a Franchisor Law firm they said that the way these cleaning franchisors are doing business they are Misclassifying there franchisees and that there fake franchisees are really employees and that the only people in real trouble are the Cleaning Franchisors. The Judge gave the plaintiffs Summary Judgment and he wrote an 11 page ruling were he stated that this was a Ponzi Scheme and ruled the plaintiff’s misclassified. This was based on the LAW and under the ABC 3 Test Prongs.

  Meanwhile we need everyone to file a complaint with the Federal Trade Commission and District Attorneys and Attorney General.

  http://www.ftc.gov If we all file complaint the FTC will take Action !

  The legal actions are not over. People are tired of getting Ripped-off. People work very hard for there money and we are not going to allow these companies to rip-us off any longer. More people are coming forward. There is more Lawsuits being filled and I have heard that the Attorney General will be looking into this dirty mess.

• This is in response to ( The Fake J from Indiana )

  I have responded to all of your questions. However one day you ran a mock like a crazy monkey that was high on crack cocaine and you posted 3 Times. I’m still responding to some of your last post but don’t worry about your last question about me taking Legal Action. I’m going to respond to that question and you will end up crying like a monkey with no Banana’s.

  However I noticed that all you have done is run from ALL of the questions that I have asked. Some you completely ignored and others you say that you don’t have an answer to even though you say that you are a Jan-pro INSIDER.

• This is in response to the ( Fake J from Indiana )

  This is in response to the second post you posted on June 7 at 5:20 pm

  Yes some people are taking legal action. According to the 2008 FDD Coverall has settled 26 cases and Janiking has also settled 52 pieces of litigation. I myself know of 7 cases against jan-pro.

  Maryland’s assistant Attorney General Dale Cantone warns that the Fdds are so COMPLEX that they are very, very risky.

  The http://www.Ftc.Gov Federal Trade Commission distributes a 19 page booklet of CAUTION for people considering buying a commercial cleaning franchise.

  Anybody considering buying a Fake cleaning franchise please don’t do it. You will loose your money and have many headaches if you do.

  Yes unfortunately people do get intimidated. I witnessed this myself and was horrified by it. I specially have seen them take advantage of single Moms, immigrants and Vets.

  To the ( Fake J from Indiana) You have called me a ranter and an idiot and a cry baby. Would you also say that to the Vets who have been ripped-off by jan-pro, to the families who have been destroyed and lost it all or to Jagoda Walczak a single Mom Polish immigrant who was ripped-off after she borrowed money to buy a fake cleaning franchise.

  Please read this article that came out on the New York Times. You can find it by searching it on the internet or by going to The New York times website. It’s about how a single Mom and how she got ripped-off.

  In Search of work, but at what cost?
  By David Segal
  December 27, 2009

  Yes people who have been intimidated need to file complaints with the District Attorney and with the Federal Trade commission. If you go to the BBB they will not be able to help you because if a complaint is filled and these companies don’t respond then nothing happens.

  Please file complaints with the District Attorney or Federal Trade Commission. http://www.Ftc.Gov
  You can also join a National Class Action lawsuit as a class member.

• Noticed you forgot to mention that Coverall was “removed” from the independent contractor issue. Which was the “prong” that Judge Young used in his original “memo”. What was stated in the Jury decision handed down on June 2, 2010 was the fact there was no proof by/from the plantiffs that “harm” had been proven.

  In other words, they couldn’t prove that they had been harmed financially by this “relationship”. They had no proof that they weren’t being paid properly, that they weren’t making equal too or less than minimum wage.

  Again, if you’re going to tell the “whole story” than be honest, you’ve got to make sure that you have “standing” and you don’t. You call others “jokers” or that we are “fake”. It will be real interesting to see where this all settles and how “whiners” such as you are dealt with. Were some people “harmed” , was there some “misrepresentation” by overzealous salespersons, Maybe, but that’s a fact in all business opportunities. Key is, you have to show patterns, consistancy in the misleadings that you are stating. Again, PUT UP or SHUT UP!!!!! still no case number from you, no “location” of where you’re at, no “specific description”, could Joe be right, are you a “poor mouth attorney” trying to “rip people off”.

• This is in response to ( The Fake j from Indiana )

  This is a response to the Third post you posted on June 7 at 9:35 pm.

  You say that at the jan-pro that you were working from that you had a few people grossing over 100,000 ?
  You say that another person was grossing 180,000 ??
  You say that another person was grossing 500,000 ???

  I say prove it or stick a banana in your mouth. What will you say next ?

  You say that you are an INSIDER !

  However when you were asked by another person in this blog to show how many people have left jan-pro all you did was hide behind a trashcan and say that you didn’t know. You say that you don’t know how many people have left jan-pro but Mc Donald’s knows how many Hamburgers and Milk shakes they have sold.

  When I went to jan-pro they told me that I would make tons of money and that I would be able to grow my business, then when they took my money they wouldn‘t even say hi to me anymore. Then I found out that what they had promised they were all Lies, Dception and Fraud.

  The whole company is bad, the whole tree is bad. When I talked to the master franchisor he gave me the finger and when I called corporate they said that they could not help me.

  I have received calls from people in 25 different states and people from different parts in Canada. People have been ripped-off and they go online and find these blogs and they find my phone number and e-mail adress and when I talk to them they tell me that they know many people who are getting ripped-off by jan-pro. Not just a few but a lot of people!

  You say that you know people who made money with jan-pro. Well I know over 10 that invested from $20,000.00 Thousand Dollars to $40,000.00 Thousand Dollars and now they have nothing, Zero, Zip, Nada !

  You say you know people who made money with jan-pro well I Personally know close to 100 who got Ripped-off and now have nothing.

• In response to the ( Fake j from Indiana )

  Why do you keep trying to be Deceitful. The Plaintiffs in the coverall case have won a partial summary judgment! It was declared by the Judge. The Judge said that Coverall is a modified Ponzi Scheme and he declared the plaintiff’s misclassified and declared them employees under the LAW. Which means that they will be able to recover there loses. There will also be more Lawsuits filled against coverall. If what the Judge said when he called them a Ponzi Scheme wouldn’t mater then the IFA wouldn’t be sending lobbyist and letters to the Senator in Massachusetts. Why is it that Franchisor Lawyers are having all kinds of meetings and telling everybody that cleaning franchisors are in violation of the LAW. These are Lawyers that are on the Franchisors side and even they are telling everybody that the cleaning franchisors are breaking the Law and in lots of trouble. As I write this I keep getting more calls from more people who keep getting ripped-off by jan-pro. More victims. What will happen, more legal action will take place, more lawsuits. Bernard Madoff got away with ripping off the rich and powerful for many, many years. It might take us a long time to get justice because we are not rich or powerful but we will keep on fitting until we get justice so that our children can live in a righteous and just country .

  When we go to trial for the jan-pro case we will overwhelmingly prove our case. We have so many witnesses and so much evidence that it will Singe the hair off a wolf’s Rear. The vets that were ripped-off, the single moms that were ripped-off, the immigrants who were intimidated, the families who lost it all. I could show you 100 examples with overwhelming proof.

  Again you come in here and you try and change things around. Again the Deception and the lies by someone who we don’t know. You say that you are an insider. What does that mean ? We can’t believe anything that you say because we have been lied to by jan-pro so many times. Are you an executive at jan-pro trying to take Richard kissane’s job? Are you an operations manager at jan-pro or a master franchisor who has been ripping people off.

• Talk about someone long winded, you keep “hashing’ over the same stuff.

  Fact: DLA Piper: Jury verdict May 26th, in Awuah vs. Coverall North America, court dismissed all claims relating to the plantiffs assertions that they should have been classified as employees rather than independent contractors.

  Fact: Jury agreed and decided the plantiffs had not been deceived or harmed by Coverall.

  Per http://www.allbusiness.com

  Its funny how you always say you were “lied too”, “deceived” , “cheated” etc… yet in the most liberal state, with the most liberal rules, Lowest most “threshold of proof” a jury of “peers” found Coverall not guilty!!!!

• Here we go again you are really confused. Your information is Wrong. I have the Judges 11 page ruling were he gives the Plaintiffs partial Summary Judgment and classifies them as employees. You are so confused. There is also more lawsuits being filled.

  The following is another example of what happened in the Massachusetts supreme court when they found Rhina Alvarenga to be misclassified when she worked for Coverall. She recovered her loses and received unemployment compensation.

  Independent Contractor Is Narrowly Defined

  The Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court (SJC) recently ruled that a “franchisee” was an employee, and not an independent contractor, under Massachusetts’s unemployment compensation statute, M.G.L. c. 151A. Accordingly, the franchisor was required to pay contributions to the unemployment fund based on the franchisee’s reported earnings, and the franchisee was entitled to unemployment benefits. In Coverall North America, Inc. v. Commissioner of the Division of Unemployment Assistance, the SJC relied exclusively on the test set forth in Chapter 151A to explore the employment relationship and determine independent contractor status, without regard to the independent contractor statute amended in 2004.

  Rhina Alvarenga purchased a janitorial franchise from Coverall North America. As part of its franchise agreement, Coverall maintains significant control over franchisees by providing training, field supervision, a customer base, and daily customer cleaning plans. Coverall bills customers directly and pays franchisees monthly fees for the services they perform. While Coverall encourages franchisees to expand their customer base, all customers must negotiate contracts with Coverall. Within months of purchasing her franchise, Alvarenga told Coverall that she could not accomplish its daily cleaning plan within the twenty-five hour weekly schedule for which she was paid. Coverall nevertheless demanded that she complete all tasks and did not compensate her for the longer hours necessary to complete her work. When Alvarenga eventually refused to continue performing additional unpaid work, Coverall “discharged” her.

  The Division of Unemployment Assistance (DUA) initially rejected Alvarenga’s claim for unemployment benefits after determining that the services she performed did not constitute “employment” but rather indicated that she was an independent contractor. At hearing, however, a Review Examiner found that Coverall failed to establish under Chapter 151A that Alvarenga was an independent contractor. Both the DUA’s Board of Review and a Massachusetts District Court affirmed this decision.

  On appeal, the SJC analyzed the three-part test (known as the “A-B-C” test) in Chapter 151A, § 2, and found that Alvarenga was not an independent contractor. Under this conjunctive test, Coverall bore the burden of proving that the services Alvarenga performed were (a) free from Coverall’s control and direction; (b) outside the usual course of Coverall’s business; and (c) part of a business independently established by Alvarenga. The SJC focused on the third prong. Coverall argued that the Court should apply a “capability test” to determine whether Alvarenga could have been entrepreneurial and could expand her business. The Court, however, held that to determine whether Alvarenga was independent, it would look at both her ability to develop expanded business as well as the actual nature of her existing business. The SJC concluded that Alvarenga was compelled to rely on Coverall because it negotiated all contracts and pricing, billed the clients, and controlled daily tasks – and would do so even for customers she developed independently.

• You have asked me what I’m doing about the damage that jan-pro has caused me. For your information I’m taking legal action against jan-pro. I’m a lead plaintif in a National Class Action Lawsuit. You have asked me to see the lawsuit paperwork. We are not allowed to post our e-mails here so go to complaontsboard.com and on the first complaint click on it and there you will find my e-mail adress. E-mail me and I will send you a copy. I will be waiting for your e-mail.

• Jerry V (and other parties interested in the Coverall lawsuit). Here is part of an article regarding the FINAL JURY VERDICT in the case, as well as a link to the article on Allbusiness.com (a D&B Company).

  ————————–

  DLA Piper announced today that the firm successfully represented Coverall North America, Inc., a commercial-cleaning franchisor, in a three-week trial in Massachusetts federal district court.

  The May 26 jury verdict is a significant victory for Coverall, which has been embroiled in a dispute

  In Awuah v. Coverall North America, Inc., four Coverall franchisees brought claims alleging that Coverall, the franchisor, misclassified its franchisees as independent contractors and committed unfair or deceptive trade practices. The plaintiffs argued that they should instead be considered employees of Coverall, and were entitled to minimum wage, overtime pay and other benefits of employment.

  At the beginning of trial, the court dismissed all claims relating to the plaintiffs’ assertion that they should have been classified as employees rather than independent contractors. The dismissal was based on the plaintiffs’ failure to present any proof that they had suffered any damages as a result of this alleged misclassification. The rest of the plaintiffs’ claims, which included counts of fraud, negligent misrepresentation, breach of contract, violation of state deceptive practices acts and related claims, proceeded to trial.

  DLA Piper, on behalf of Coverall, argued that Coverall had complied with all of its obligations and, moreover, that it had not concealed any information from the plaintiffs. The jury agreed and decided that the plaintiffs had not been deceived or harmed by Coverall.
  —————————–

  Here is the link to the article: http://www.allbusiness.com/legal/trial-procedure-jury-trial/14566089-1.html

  Bottom line – all claims were resolved in favor of Coverall. Also, no damages were awarded for the employee/sub-contractor misclassification.

  Just want to make sure everyone is using up-to-date facts.

• Can you answer some of these questions ?

  1. What is your name ?

  2. What jan-pro do you work for?

  3. What is your position at jan-pro ?

  4. Can you tell us why you don’t like Richard kissane ?

  5. You said that Richard’s position was handed to him, how did this come about ?

  6. Do you have friends or relatives who bought a franchise ?

  7. Do you have a franchise ?

  8. How many people have left jan-pro ?

  9. What did they talk about at the conventions. ?

  10. Do you know jacques lapointe ?

  11. Do you know ray lapointe ?

  12. What is the deal with Webster capital buying jan-pro ?

• I believe that decision will be appealed. I can find no provision that requires an “injury”
  to determination of classification status.

• 1. Jerry
  2. Indiana
  3. Not employed there currently
  4. He’s a lacky, he was at OneSource, he is at Jan-Pro. He’s a lightweight, doesn’t love the business, just collects a check.
  5. He was handpicked by Jacques Lapointe,
  6. No
  7.No
  8. A few, during my time there, less than 1/2 dozen
  9. Numerous things, to much to mention in a reasonable period of time
  10. Know of him, not personally
  11. No.
  12. Don’t know anything about that.

  Now I’ve answered all your questions, opinion of you hasn’t changed. You and others want to blame everything on the company, don’t want to “share” in the responsibility, you want to “destroy”, I would want to “rehab”, you want “vengence” , what I would propose would be “fairness”, you want something for “nothing” on your end, I would propose equal blame and fairness.

• John,

  Yes it can be. But it costs money. It wouldn’t be money well spent, someone needs to think about how much money lawyers are getting and making off this “turmoil”.

  I’m not saying the legal system is at fault, I’m saying that those monies need to be put into the mix as well.

  If you can’t resolve it face to face with the “master owner”, then go to mediation/arbitration, if still feeling “cheated’, then get proper “standing” and by all means pursue a legal remedy. When you do nothing but threaten, get “crazy”, of course they are going to “shun you”, when you act proper, when you go through the “process” as outlined in the FDD then you’ve got “standing”

  Think about that, it’s just business, it’s not a life

• The Lawsuit against coverall isn’t over yet. There is a long battle ahead. I will later on put the judges decision were he stated that the way Coverall does business is like a Modified Ponzi Scheme and declared the plaintifs misclasified employees. Remember Rhina Alvarenga Won Misclasification and recouped her loses.

  1. To the guy from (Indiana who calls himself Jerry) I asked for your full name ???

  Its funny how you try and change things around and try and make us the Bad people when we are the ones who got Ripped-off. If you are so woried about Attorneys making money then jan-pro should have never ripped-off so many people. I don’t see how you people can sleep well at night ripping off so many people. I have had ladies cry on the phone because jan-pro ripped-off there savings.

  We did go to the master franchisor and then to corporate but they didn’t care. They just took our money and Ripped-us off. We are seeking a legal remedy we are taking jan-pro to court in a national class action lawsuit.

  You said that we do nothing and get crazy. See this is what jan-pro does they make things up. We got ripped-off and we will prove it when we go to court.

  Why do you say things like “when you do nothing and threaten and get crazy” see thats the kind of Lies and things that you and jan-pro make-up.

  The FDD is a scam like I have told you before the Assiatant Attorney General in Maryland warns people about the FDD and says it’s Very Very Risky and very hard to understand. So you see they have to make a tricky and hard to understand FDD so that they can Rip you off.

  When I went to my deposition in Boston even jan-pros Attorneys said and agreed that the FDD is very hard to understand. Even jan-pros Attorneys admit it is Very hard to understand. They even said that you need an attorney to read it. Why does jan-pro do that so that they can rob and steal.

  Ripping off families, Ripping off single Moms, Ripping of Veterans is not right its a crime that needs to be prosecuted.

  Bernie madof went to jail for doing these scams and its time we all contact the FTC.Gov and our Attorney General so that they can take action. Meanwhile I’m taking legal action.

  http://www.Ftc.Gov

• Regardless of wether this is legally a rip off and franchisees are legally employees DO NOT invest in a cleaning franchise. You will be treated like an employee and it is a terrible business investment. Flat out terrible. Don’t waste your money or credit. I know from experience.

• 1. What is your full name ?

  2. Do you still work for a cleaning franchisor ? If so who ?

  3. Ok so you admit that Richard kissane is just collecting checks and doesn’t care about us. Remember I told you that many of us have called corporate and they wouldn’t help me or anyone else that called. They gave us no choice than to take legal action. Remember the ladies that came out on the Television special were jan-pro was exposed. Remember that jan-pro said that they would take care of the problem. Well they still haven’t and it’s been a few months. Nobody likes to get bounced checks and then when they complained they got kicked out of the office. Thats the kind of crap jan-pro does.

  4. What exactly was your position at jan-pro ?

  5. Have you e-mailed me so that I can send you a copy of the Lawsuit that we have against jan-pro ? You can find my e-mail address at complaintsboard.com on the first post you see there.

• To JD and Jerry from Indiana can you tell us your complete names and how you are or were related to jan-pro or coverall or any other franchisor ???

• The postings are getting too personal. I am a current franchisee with Jan-pro. I am lucky enough to live and do business in one of top cities in the USA. I had been in business for myself for the last 15 years in the service industry before investing in Jan-Pro. I thought that buying a franchise with Jan-Pro + all of those years of experience in the service industry it will move me to the next level in business since I was backed by a “big name”. After more than four years with the franchise, I am worse than I started. I am providing/provided excellent service considering the pricing of the accounts, no complains from any of the costumers (note that I am not saying my costumers because that is an illusion). If had to rely on Jan-Pro franchise to provide for my family, we will be living on the street right now. I said it before on this website, this business model had been taken to an unethical level as well as borderline illegal (lawyers can do wonders on paper that can take years of litigation to unravel). As far as my experience with the Master Franchisor, there are not in the cleaning business they are in the selling business. Sell, sell and sell regardless. Just for the record my very first account was underbid by a whopping 52% (it is documented $1700 for $900 also, it was an account serviced by another franchisee). After that account, the number of underbid accounts offered to me came one after another. I had/have some account that they were/are profitable, however not enough to be called a business or justify the franchise fee. If the corporation knows all of this abuses are taking place regardless of location and there are not doing anything about it, there are guilty as well. If this lawsuit can stop this unethical borderline illegal practices, I believe that will benefit everybody from the top of the Corporation, Master Franchisor, Franchisee and Jan-Pro’s Costumers as well. Is a fact, Jan-Pro gave me lemons and I made the best lemonade I could during the last four years.

• There you go, it’s not a perfect system, but in order to make it better, do it the right way.

  1. Demand for a change in the way Master Franchisors are chosen. Can’t just be for the money. They must be of good moral character, they must understand that it’s peoples livlihoods that they have a responsibility for.

  2. Corporate Jan-Pro is being currently run by a bunch of “has beens” most of them were “kicked out” of companies such as Jani-King, OneSource and others. Demand for their removal, when removed, put in people of good character, run a company the way it should be run, have it be run by people that “love and understand” the janitorial/commercial cleaning business.

  3. Now, comes the hard part for “1st amendment” and others like him. Don’t blame someone else for your “misgivings”. You had a responsibility to read the FDD, if you didn’t understand it, take it to an attorney, if they don’t understand it, DONT INVEST!!!!!. In the FDD all of the current and past franchisees are to be listed with active numbers, you don’t reach a vast majority of those listed, ask for an updated version, they don’t have it DONT INVEST!!!!! From the date/day of your presentation, you had 10 to 14 days of due deligence on your part, take advantage of that time, ask questions, investigate, old saying “TRUST but VERIFY”.

  Nothing wrong with the business model, are you going to GET RICH cleaning toilets for a living, no, but you can make a great living, buy a home, buy a car, put your children through college etc….

  Quit playing into the hands of attorneys, at the end of the day, even if you win, you wont get anything in return.

  You want to bet that if you “stopped your nonsense” and went directly to corporate and worked on a reasonable deal that they wouldn’t settle, yes they would. Bet your bottom dollar they would.

  You want to do something even greater, Put together enough people and buy the company, run it the way I’ve described and you’ll have the most profitable, well run, well positioned company in the industry.

  But all “1st amendment” wants to do is complain, all he wants is “blood”, he doesn’t want “justice” all he wants is vengence.

• In responce to to ( J from Indiana )

  Can you respond to the 5 questions I posted earlier.

  You asked why we didn’t demand change. I called Corporate and so did many other people. Corporate would not Help US!!! I have told you this before Again and Again, I will say it again, We CALLED, We Contacted Corporate and Corporate would NOT HELP US. How many times do I have to repeat it. Many of us Called corporate. Many sent letters and called and they never Helped us. We were forced to take legal action.

  We cannot remove corporate when they have all the power. The master franchisors wont talk to us because they rip-us off and corporate does the same thing. There all in on the Racket. Its not a democracy they rule like Dictators. So your statement about removing corporate makes no since. You know very well that a person can’t do anything about removing them and you know very well that jan-pro controls everything. Jan-pro at anytime can take all of your accounts away for any reason that they make up and I have seen them try and do it to people. We don’t own anything we have no control, no say so and no rights. We are treated worse than an employee in a third world country.

  You are trying to say that since the FDD is Missrepresentfull, Deceitful and Fraudulent that it’s ok for them to rip us off ??? So if they would have put on that contract some tricky jargon words and it would make us there slaves would you be ok with it? Why do they have to be Deceitful, Fraudulent and Tricky on there FDD’s. Ask yourself why do they do that??? Like I said even jan-pros attorneys said that it’s hard to understand. Is this the kind of country that we are turning into a country with corporations who have to find ways to rip-off people. For our children’s sake I hope not.

  There business model is wrong because they steal accounts away for no reason that is THEFT!

  There business model is wrong because they underbid accounts so low that people make less than minimum wage that is FRAUD!

  There business model is unethically and morally wrong because they will fine you and steal money from your check for not returning a call in 2 hours or for not wearing there blue shirt!

  You said that we are playing into the hands of attorneys. It’s your statements like that, that make me wonder why you are so desperately defending jan-pro. Its only obvious that you are with corporate or an attorney for them. I bet that if you were being ripped-off you to would be taking legal action. I bet that if your Mom got ripped of that you would be Mad and wanting to take legal action.

  Can you answer the following question:
  What would you say to some guy who is in the Military risking his life everyday so that we can have freedom meanwhile his Mom is getting ripped-off by jan-pro every month?

  Your last statement about me wanting blood is just another attempt of trying to make the victim into the bad person. It’s an old trick. When I bought this fake franchise I busted my butt trying to make it work but it’s very hard when they bid the jobs so low that I was making less than minimum wage. I tried talking to the manager to the master franchisor and corporate. I tried working things out and they just didn’t care. They forced us to take legal action.

  We seek justice. We don’t want jan-pro to hurt anymore people. Maybe you need to talk to the near 100 people that I have talked to. Maybe if you talked to the Vets and single Moms and the Families that jan-pro has hurt maybe you would change your mind.

  One of the things we seek is on page 14 of our complaint

  5. Declaratory and injunctive relief, requiring jan-pro to cease its illegal practices.

• I had decided not to make any more posts to this blog, mainly because of the rants and raves of the obviously unresourceful and unmotivated ‘1st Amendment’ and the like, but since my inbox is now overflowing with comments, I have no other choice but to weigh in on what many have recently said.

  Honestly, Jan-Pro is not the best money that anyone here will spend in his or her lifetime. The cleaning franchise model needs to be re-evaluated as not to be so vulturous in nature. Many of the pundits of Jan-Pro need to realize that even if you took away all of the fees and other nonsense that give the business a bad rep, you would still be operating in a system of rules and processes that will never alllow for any of us to be as successful as the system that we sustain. This is the nature of a FRANCHISED BUSINESS! I read all of the wimpy complaints here and many wont hold any water to the unlimited resources of a company like Jan-Pro. They will outspend you at every turn to defend againt a lawsuit as frivilous as yours.

  You claim THEFT but they cant steal what they already own!!
  You claim FRAUD but I can guarantee that your Master Owner has done almost everything in accordance with the FDD you signed to become a franchisee! It was probably you who didnt understand what you were getting into. I dont THINK the smart ones go looking for any trouble.

  The ones that bitch about there accounts being taken away probably had something to do with it being taken away to begin with.

  The very small percentage of people that have rock solid claims against the company are the ones that you will never hear of. These are the ones that are paid to stay off blogs and out of court. Lapointe will cut his own nuts off before any of those people see the light of day.

  So where does that leave us. Back where we started. You and the 10 people of your class dont have anthing damaging enough to fundamentally change the way these people do business. Thats just the hardcore reality of things. Im surely pissed about some things that Jan-Pro has done to me, but I realize that change starts with me. I wouldnt invest any more money in Jan-Pro or reccomend anyone else to do so but I also wouldnt foolishly waste time or money on a lawsuit that has little to no merit, just the angry feelings of 1st amendment.

• I know 1st amendment is going to accuse me of being from corporate or some other figment of his childish imagination, but I am a true blood franchisee just like you!

  I work my ass off and I pay my 20% faithfully every month. So I know what this is and what it aint.

  I didnt have a problem reading and understanding my FDD. I actually had took the numbers from the FDD and lined them up with my franchise package, so I knew how much I’d be taking in at any point. I knew the effects of S&M fees on my bottom line. I knew all the angles BEFORE I signed the paper.

  So whats my gripe you might ask?

  Its simple. I have lost total faith and confidence in Jan-Pro because of SOME of the allegations that have been made here and some things I have experienced with the company since becoming a franchisee.

  I dont want to be part of an organization that engages in any type of deceptive practices that harms directly or indirectly members of the organization. I expected Jan-Pro to be honest and fair in its dealings with me and that hasnt been the case always.

  I DONT Call them crooks or rip-offs, just people that can always be taken at their word. But then again…Who can really be trusted??

• Still no responsibility for issues on your end:

  Common Ground:

  1. Some Master Franchisors are really the “root of the problem”: Everything that you are describing in your “frustration” is directly attributed to the Master Franchisor. It’s that level that is truly at fault:

  a) The Master has control of the “presentation” to you. Though the FDD Legal language is approved by Jan-Pro International, the actual Master or his rep. is actually making the presentation to you not a rep of Jan-Pro International

  b) The Master or his rep. actually is the one that goes out and “bids” the jobs. Not Jan-Pro International, though they do have “bidding guidelines” in regards to production rates, amount of time to clean fixtures, etc… They don’t actually bid, nor do they approve the bids that the Master or his rep. present to the customer.

  c) The Master or his rep. actually is the one that goes out and inspects the facilities for cleanliness level, meets with the customer, makes decisions to “transfer” an account etc… In some cases, it’s actually the customer requesting the transfer which is their right based upon how the contract is written.

  d) The Master or his rep. actually has the obligation to “fine” you or not. Sometimes a fine is warranted, sometime it’s not, the Master or his rep. actually have the ability to “waive the fine” at anytime.

  The above listed “issues” are all in the hands of the Master and/or his representatives. Your wanting corporate to “pay” for something done on the “local level”. Now where corporate does have a “say” in this, they are the ones choosing the Masters. They have a choice in taking or not taking a particular persons money. In fairness, alot of the “problem Masters” were actually selected by Jacque Lapointe and not Rich Kissane.

  Now let’s talk about the above listed points:

  1. You had a choice after leaving the presentation to select or not select Jan-Pro to work with, you could have gone to Jani-King, Bonus, Coverall, Cleannet or others. With that choice, you had a responsibility to “verify” what they were saying, you had a minimum of 10 to 14 days to chose or not chose Jan-Pro. Remember at the end of the day, no one was twisting your arm nor had a “gun” to your head to give them your money.

  2. Anytime an account was offered to you, you had a right and really an obligation to walk thru the account first, meet the contact person, tour the building and then accept/decline based upon that and the actual written contract/specifications. With that “right” comes some issues, if you turned down the account, Jan-Pro has a right to “stop the clock” on the amount offered to you via your package. Now that may seem unfair to you, but let’s think about this for a minute, perfectly good and viable accounts are offered and turned down by a particular owner/operator everyday, maybe a “full count” is a little unfair, a proposal that I would “offer” would be the first turn down, nothing counted against franchisee/the clock, 2nd turn down 50% is counted “against the franchisee/clock” and the 3rd turn down and forward is counted 100%.

  3. In regards to the fines, I would like to see the following changes made;

  a) severe penalties such as no call, no show is 50 to 100.00 second occurance is an automatic pulling of the account
  b) cleaning issues, should be verbally spoken 1st time, written warning 2nd time, fined 3rd time and account pulled (if requested by customer or operations manager) on the fourth time.

  4. in regards to the “monitoring” of the masters and their employees, a greater job must be done by Jan-Pro International, I’ve explained what should be done up front if given the opportunity. Now lets deal with today’s/already in place masters:

  a) Full corporate review of all Masters that are “envolved” or “caused” the lawsuits in the first place. If found at fault of running their operations in the “inappropriate” or corporate way, those masters are fined heavily, given 30 days to make changes, if those changes aren’t made, begin legal remedy and suspend those masters from selling any furhter unit franchises, gaining any more accounts until all points are found in compliance.
  b) If “a” doesn’t happen in a reasonable period of time not to exceed 90 days, corporate comes in and runs the masters operation until such time as an agreement to sell or transer has been worked out as acceptable to all parties.

  In regards to your “attempts” to satisfy your situation with corporate.

  1. You had an obligation by signing a contract to abide by the rules of that contract which stipulates arbitration/mediation. You and the others probably didn’t do that.
  2. You have an opportunity now, that if you can “unite” all the one’s that you are talking about that have been “wronged” to change the industry for everyone including yourselves. Have one voice, make it one of reason, and suggest the above listed changes, be open minded, give them time to implement the above and then go back and restart your opportunity or settle on a figure that is fair and just for all parties.

  Don’t believe me, get at least 50 of the 100 or so people that you “represent” to unite under or have one attorney or representitive meet with Jan-Pro International and I’m sure they will take that meeting.

  But understand, at best, blame for what has happened is % split between you, the master and jan-pro international.

• A believer:

  You are an honest broker for sure. I too agree with your statement that a corporate entity must share in the responsibility for the issues at hand. You must look at the “numbers”. When so many people are upset, there is something wrong. What you do about that “wrongness” is what will set you apart in the business world.

  Right now, Coverall, Jan-Pro, Jani-King and others are simply hiding behind their attorneys. But who can blame them to a degree. Part of the problem we live in a litigation based society. But at some point in time, someone is going to do the right thing and take a leap of faith.

  I truly believe that if done correctly, the owner/operator system is a better cleaning program and end use product vs. traditional cleaning companies. I’ve been on both sides for nearly 25 years, I think I know what I’m saying.

  1st amendment as stated before is out for blood, vengence and doesn’t have an ounce of “mediation” in his system. He wants to blame everyone else but himself for his situation, he forgets that these “masters” are individual corporations, his attorneys have filled him with these dillusions of being a “whistle blower” and that they’ll make a movie about him one day. Here’s a reality check, even if you win, you’ll loose. Only one’s that’s going to get paid are the attorneys representing you and your “posse”. The only one’s that are going to be “famous” are the attorneys. Only ones that will be making any money are the attorneys.

  You don’t want change, you want to be famous, you don’t want to “clean up” the mess, you want fame.

  1st amendment believes in that for him and for the people that share his views, not for everyone.

• Lets address the “bidding issue”. You say that Jan-Pro and others, bid too low in order to do the job correctly. Well here’s how “traditional companies” bid and in comparision here’s how most Jan-Pro, Coverall’s and Jani-Kings bid:

  Example Building: 20,000 sq. foot, medium density 80 to 90% carpet, rest some sort of “tile” could be vct, ceramic, etc… 5 night per week service.

  Traditional company: avg. rate of production: 4,000 sq. foot per man hour or 5 hours per night cleaning.

  Keeping things simple: Let’s say they like to pay their employees $8.00 per hour
  So now you’ve got an 8.00 per hour and you’ve got to add the following % to that:

  22% for FICA, FUTA, SUTA, Workmans Comp. and Liability Insurance
  12% General Overhead: Such as office, office staff, light bill for office etc…
  10% Chemicals and Equipment: Standard equipment only, if you get autoscrubber or something else “job specific” you need to add on to this figure
  10% Overhead and Profit

  Now your $8.00 per hour person is at roughly $12.50 per hour. Based upon the time, you now have a bidding schedule at 5 hours per night, X 12.50 per hourX 21.5 nights in a month = $1343.75 per month. Most will round up to at least $1350.00 per month some to even $1400.00

  Now lets do it how most “owner/operator companies” do it: Same building, same production rate, same number of days per week.

  $15.00 per hour (standard for Jan-Pro, Jani-King and others) X 21.5 X 5= $1612.50 per month.

  Now you might get someone that’s too aggressive with the production rate and run it up to 4500 sq. foot per hour. That translates to the following: 4.5X15X21.5=$1450.00 per month

  Granted, you are only getting 80% of that figure as an average: 10% admin, 5% for insurance, 5% management fee: so you would be getting between $1160.00 to $1290.00 per month.

  Now lets talk about what a traditional company “budgets” for direct labor on the same building between 50 and 55% of the dollar. Remember their bid is at $1400.00 per month so they are giving their direct labor at 50% or 700.00 per month divided by 21.5 days, divided by $8.00 per hour they have their 4 hours per night cleaning it.

  Now lets take the average of $1200.00 per month for “you” as an owner/operator: divide that $1200.00 per month by 21.5=$55.80 per day. Lets say you want to make $12.00 per hour, you will spend 4.65 hours per day in the same building.

  Show me how you are getting cheated, people would give their right arm for $12.00 per hour for a “supplemental” income. You don’t punch a time clock, you don’t have to usually be there at a specific time, you don’t have to worry about someone “pushing ” you to go faster to make up for someone else being slower, you want to go home after your primary job, eat dinner, change clothes etc… you can.

  What gets most owner/operators in trouble is they rely solely on the Jan-Pro, Coverall, Jani-King for their livlihood. Don’t, can’t. If you don’t have good business skills, you need to stay small, something you, your spouse, your family can do together. If you want to get large, you need to have a mix of larger and smaller accounts, some with the “franchising companies” and some not. You need to expand your horizons and get into floor and carpet cleaning etc….

  Someone will call someone like me with my industry experience who will testify and justify the “bid” that you are saying is “too low”, ” not enough money” all day long and twice on Sunday.

  Hope this information helps you and others put things in perspective.

• One of the things we can do is file a complaint with the FTC, Attorney General and if we get Class Action Certification you will be able to join the National Class Action. Please take a moment and file a complaint.

  http://www.Ftc.Gov

  How to file a complaint with the FTC and why you should

  It is very important that if you are defrauded or have been victim to one of these scams that you file a complaint with the FTC (Federal Trade Commission). Filing complaints with the FTC is very important because complaints filed with the FTC get put into a secure database that is used by law enforcement to investigate cases. The FTC does not follow each and every complaint but instead investigates sources that have lots of complaints.

  The FTC will total all the related cases into large case leads and refers them out to task forces for investigations. You are not the only victim of these scams but if we do not file a complaint it may not get the attention deserved. Do not think that you are going to get a call from the FTC because you filed but it can help raise awareness with the FTC so they can take action.
  The FTC however can open investigations against entities that have violated consumer protection laws so filing a complaint is very important in this regard. FTC will not advocate on your behalf or even promise they will investigate the claim however it is one way they can get the information they need to put a stop to organizations that are violating the law.
  How to file a complaint with the FTC

  * Go to the Federal Trade Commissions Complaint Assistant
  * Click on the Complaint Assistant link on the right
  * The wizard will walk you through all the steps of filing the complaint. Add as much detail as you can and make sure the information you give is clear and effectively tells your side of the complaint.

  It is a very easy process but one that is vital to combating the scams that are taking advantage of millions of people.

• Please read the following story that came out on The Boston Glove.Here is proof that they underbid there accounts so low that you will make less than minimum wage. I’m only allowed to put part of it so if you want to read the whole article you need to go to the website and read it all there. In my opinion the Franchisee was given very badly underbid accounts so they didn’t have enough money to pay the workers they hired. Not even minimum wage. Just like jan-pro gave me accounts that payed less than minimum wage except I wasn’t about to hire people and Rip-them off just because jan-pro Ripped-me off. Remember on TV jan-pro was exposed and people said that there checks had bounced.

  http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2009/08/20/cleaning_worker_finds_her_voice_and_colleagues_wages_are_lost_no_more/?page=2

  The Boston Glove Boston.com August 2009

  Cleaning worker finds her voice and colleagues’ wages are lost no more

  Nobody was supposed to see Gloria Rodriguez. She said she usually arrived around midnight for the overnight shift at a prominent Boston restaurant to scrub floors, tables, and toilets until they sparkled. By dawn, she was gone.

  But once her paychecks failed to arrive on time – or bounced – Rodriguez suddenly became a public figure in an unusual campaign against the cleaning company Coverall and the restaurants she said they cleaned, Legal Sea Foods and the Cheesecake Factory . She told her story to churches, university students, state officials, and the media, and last month to the general counsel of Coverall cleaning company, who flew up from Florida to listen.

  As a result, Coverall decided to donate $40,000 to two nonprofits that aided Rodriguez and other workers like her, Centro Presente and the Chelsea Collaborative. The groups said they will use the money to pay 18 workers their lost wages today at a press conference in Boston City Hall. Each nonprofit will get $5,000 as well.

  “Many people thought it wouldn’t happen,’’ said Rodriguez at her home in Somerville. Rodriguez said she was owed $1,200 in lost wages; her husband, Rigoberto Cartagena, said he was owed more than $7,000.

  “It took a long time, but it was worth it,’’ she said.
  Rodriguez said she cleaned for a month at the Cheesecake Factory and for more than two months at Legal Sea Foods in the Boston area and was paid less than she earned. Her husband also worked for two months and was not paid at all.

  Legal Sea Foods officials said it is Coverall’s responsibility to pay its workers. However, they said they complained to Coverall on behalf of individual workers who contacted them directly, even though they are not required to do so.

  Legal Sea Foods terminated the cleaning contract in 2007, on concerns about workers’ treatment, and has started hiring their own cleaners at many restaurants directly, officials said.

  “We acted by terminating the agreement and by also trying to meet with the individuals and seeing if we could employ them,’’ said Heather Lacey, associate general counsel for Legal Sea Foods. “We have done more than we were legally required to do.’’
  “It’s unfortunate that money that we paid to Coverall has not gotten to the actual people who did the work in our restaurants, but that’s their responsibility to pay their workers, not ours,’’ said Mears.

  But the workers said they were responding to a system that seemed stacked against them. Coverall had workers willing to scrub floors all night, and the restaurants were left gleaming. But the workers were sometimes paid too little or not at all.

  At first, Rodriguez considered cutting her losses and walking away.

  Instead, she and other workers turned to Centro Presente, in Somerville, and the Chelsea Collaborative, for help filing confidential complaints with the state attorney general’s office.

  After more than a year of waiting, the workers and the nonprofits decided to take their complaints public.