JAN-PRO Franchise Complaints

723 thoughts on “JAN-PRO Franchise Complaints”

• Well again, all you’ve proven is that there are bad apples as Masters. The people in question probably worked for a Master. Though I heard since that report, that Coverall corp. is keeping the Boston area “in house” operation.

  You say you were “ripped off” that the pay was below minimum wage and that you couldn’t afford to hire employees. The Jan-Pro, Jani-King and other “bidding models” don’t take into account your need/want to be lazy and hire employees to do the work and you set at home and collect a check. I’ve explained in great detail or certainly enough detail how bids are done by both traditional and “owner/operator” companies.

  The complaint part is ridiculous again. You don’t answer questions, you don’t counter what is being stated by others. You stay on the same “speech” and that’s what leads me to believe that you are an attorney or someone that works for an attorney.

  You’ve got people “stirred up” and all your looking to do is to fill your pockets as I had previously stated. You don’t want to help people, you want to use them, so you justify this in your mind that you are using them for a different purpose!!!

  One day, people are going to wake up and realize that all of the nonsense you are spewing on this site and others (too many to list) is to fill your pockets and/or the pockets of people using you.

  If these people listed in “your lawsuit” were “victims” before, they are again being victimized by you.

• To 1st amendment:

  Come up with some reasonable talk soon or I’m leaving this site and not coming back. You’ve got nothing on Jan-Pro, Coverall and others. All can be explained and you want to say everything is Jan-Pro’s fault and that you have none on yours.

  You didn’t answer about the FDD, the fact that you should review the document, take it to an attorney, make the calls to current and/or former owner/operators.

  You didn’t answer that you had 10 to 14 days from the date of the presentation to make up your mind and by the way, no one held a “gun” to your head or twisted your are to give Jan-Pro the money.

  You didn’t answer the question in regards to the bidding argument, I showed you specifically where/how bids are derived in our business both as a traditional company owner and as one in the owner/operator system.

  You didn’t answer the question that sometimes owner/operators turned down perfectly good and valued accounts and that there is reasonable expectation by the “master” to take that “billing” off the clock. Doesn’t mean you aren’t going to get it, simply means it comes “off the clock”.

  You didn’t answer the facts that the “masters” are independant corporations, your suit should be filed against them, not against corporate jan-pro. In that same “field” you were agreed to, signed by you that you and any others were to go through mediation/arbitration to settle any disputes. You didn’t.

  You didn’t answer or show “fraud” on anyone’s part, a contract is a contract, don’t like the terms, don’t sign, don’t like the terms, negotiate better or different terms. I go back to, no one twisted your arm to get your money.

  You didn’t answer or show “deceit”, they gave you a presentation, they gave you documentation, they gave you time, they gave you books, DVD’s and training, common sense dictates that you aren’t going to get “rich” by cleaning toilets, if that were the case, everyone would be doing it, cleaning toilets isn’t rocket sceince!

  You didn’t answer the “theft”, you say your accounts were stolen from you, they weren’t your accounts in the first place, second was there reasons why they transfered those accounts from you, were you doing a poor job, were you doing things improper, were your employee’s stealing, were they not showing up for work, were they not wearing uniforms/ID Badges, had you been warned prior. I’ll bet a dime to a dollar that some/all of the above were legitimate reasons for pulling the accounts, I’ll bet that their’s documentation to prove that, I’ll bet you forgot to ask for documentation from the others in your suit.

  I think in less than a weeks time, I’ve shown you and the others you represent that your lawsuit (if you have one), is futile. You want to change a situation, do it the right way. You say you notified corporate, you say you went through your “master” etc….. Prove it. I know you didn’t go through mediation. IF YOUR MASTER, was treating you and the others so badly, why didn’t you simply “quit in mass”. Why didn’t you organize a meeting and ask for participation from JPI, why didn’t you organize a writing campaign within your own “master” group.

  Probably because it was the more difficult process. It’s easy to let someone(s) else do the work for you.

• “all you’ve proven is that there are bad apples as Masters”

  That’s all? Jerry, try applying your same accountability standard to the franchisor that you do to the often unsophisticated and less experienced franchise owners.

  The franchisors recruit, screen & select the Masters.
  The franchisors provided the training and support.
  The franchisors control the trademark they operate under and have legal agreements that restrict the Masters behavior and practices.
  The franchisors must be making lots of money from the Masters’ unethical business practices.

  Why else would they let their reputations and trademarks be damaged by “bad apples” unless they were complicit and unless that’s just the way the system operates?

  Are you saying that corporate jan-pro is so weak and impotent that they can’t even control their own franchisees? Which is it? Complicit or impotent?

• Honestly, impotent. Because of how the “corporate” and “master” relationship was structured during the Jacques Lapointe era, there is almost little that corporate Jan-Pro can do at this point unless they are willing to go to court against the “bad apples”, problem is, they would gain public support for those actions, but they probably wouldn’t win either, they could suspend the right of a “bad apple” to sell unit franchisees until such time as they complied, but then there would be constant follow up required on the “corporate end”.

  Remember, the masters are seperate entities and seperate corporations “control” those entities. The “corporate” structure at Jan-Pro is so poor because they have “uncaring lackeys” in control that they are unwilling to take the unprecendented step of suing their own “masters”.

  Trust me, I’m not letting “corporate” Jan-Pro, Jani-King nor Coverall “escape” discussion, I’m stating their is plenty of blame to go around and to say that the “unit franchisee” carries no responsibility, no blame, is 100% the victim in this matter is no where close to the “truth” either.

  You can only carry the “unitelligent” banner so long as a “unit franchisee”. You had time, money, effort, obligation and choice to join Jan-Pro and/or the other owner/operator system.

  Properlly structured negotiation is the key, that begins with corporate Jan-Pro working to resolve the “unhappy franchisee” issue and at the same time, getting all of the masters together to agree to a “new corporate relationship” one that is more strengent and oversight based by corporate.

  Also, corporate needs to “encourage” those “bad apples” to sell and to sell quickly. Even if “corporate” takes/makes those offers to buy/transition between current masters doing right by their customers and their unit franchisee with the one’s that are not.

  It’s a mess, no doubt about it. Blame is plenty to go around, suing each other isn’t going to solve anything, only thing that does is fills attorneys pockets and causes the problem to continue for an extended period of time. Someone has to take the first step, someone has to do it in a public way.

  As far as the “money” goes, most of the current masters were in place prior to Greentree purchase, yes their are monthly royalty payments made, but those are low compared to the “bulk sums” that come in for sale of “master licenses”.

• Still waiting on 1st amendment to answer all of the issues that I listed. Points of fact. What’s the matter, hard to address what you don’t know. It makes me convinced that if you aren’t an attorney, you are working “for one”. When I make specific “business related” comments, you can’t answer or you take days to answer.

  Seems to me that you are nothing but a “gopher” for an attorney, one that has worked out a deal with you to give you a piece of his pie if/when a settlement is reached or are you given a % of his/her take when an unsuspecting “former franchisee” gives them money to “fight” the big, bad Jan-Pro, Coverall and others.

  1st amendment, you have posts all over the place, i’ve counted at least 10 just on my own. Seems like you are advertising for what? whom?

• To the (Fake j from Indiana)

  You still wont give me your real name. Why are you so afraid ? What are you hiding from ?

  What are you so afraid off ?

  You say that you are from Indiana ? Guess what I already had people from Indiana call me and tell me that jan-pro is ripping them off.

  People call me because they are seriously getting ripped-off . You and jan-pro are so desperately trying to stop me.

  People from were you supposedly worked from are also getting RIPED-OFF.

  I’m wondering how many people you RIPED-OFF ???

  How many families did you hurt ???

  How many single Moms like Jagoda Walczak did you Rip-off ???

  You say you don’t work for jan-pro any longer however you are in here constantly attacking me. So much so that it’s obvious that you must have a lot to loose!

  You say that you were an INSIDER but you could never anwser the questions that I asked about how many people left jan-pro.

  How many THOUSANDS have left jan-pro because they were ripped-off ?

  I DEMAND that you give us a NUMBER ?

  How many THOUSANDS of people have left jan-pro ?

  If Mc Donalds knows how many hamburgers, milkshakes and happy meals they have sold then jan-pro knows how many THOUSANDS have left jan-pro ?

  Don’t LIE and say you don’t know after all you were an INSIDER !!!

  Answer the QUESTION !!!

  You keep asking me for proof that I was tacking legal action against jan-pro and when I tell you to e-mail me so that I can send you a copy of the Lawsuit you wont.

  You talked so much crap and when I proved something to you all you did was change the conversation.

  You WANTED PROOF that I was tacking legal action against jan-pro and when I tell you that I can send you a copy of the lawsuit you wont e-mail me and you change the conversation, you change the subject, you run and hide!

  You talked so much crap and attacked me so much about me showing proof that I was taking legal action and when I say here is the proof you evade me.

  I Invite you to come to our trial. When you do we will overwhelmingly prove our case with so much evidence that it will Singe the hair off a wolf’s REAR !

• One of the things we can do is file a complaint with the FTC, Attorney General and if we get Class Action Certification you will be able to join the National Class Action. Please take a moment and file a complaint.

  http://www.Ftc.Gov

  How to file a complaint with the FTC and why you should

  It is very important that if you are defrauded or have been victim to one of these scams that you file a complaint with the FTC (Federal Trade Commission). Filing complaints with the FTC is very important because complaints filed with the FTC get put into a secure database that is used by law enforcement to investigate cases. The FTC does not follow each and every complaint but instead investigates sources that have lots of complaints.

  The FTC will total all the related cases into large case leads and refers them out to task forces for investigations. You are not the only victim of these scams but if we do not file a complaint it may not get the attention deserved. Do not think that you are going to get a call from the FTC because you filed but it can help raise awareness with the FTC so they can take action.
  The FTC however can open investigations against entities that have violated consumer protection laws so filing a complaint is very important in this regard. FTC will not advocate on your behalf or even promise they will investigate the claim however it is one way they can get the information they need to put a stop to organizations that are violating the law.
  How to file a complaint with the FTC

  * Go to the Federal Trade Commissions Complaint Assistant
  * Click on the Complaint Assistant link on the right
  * The wizard will walk you through all the steps of filing the complaint. Add as much detail as you can and make sure the information you give is clear and effectively tells your side of the complaint.

  It is a very easy process but one that is vital to combating the scams that are taking advantage of millions of people.

• One of the things we can do is file a complaint with the FTC, Attorney General and if we get Class Action Certification you will be able to join the National Class Action. Please take a moment and file a complaint.

  http://www.Ftc.Gov

  How to file a complaint with the FTC and why you should

  It is very important that if you are defrauded or have been victim to one of these scams that you file a complaint with the FTC (Federal Trade Commission). Filing complaints with the FTC is very important because complaints filed with the FTC get put into a secure database that is used by law enforcement to investigate cases. The FTC does not follow each and every complaint but instead investigates sources that have lots of complaints.

  The FTC will total all the related cases into large case leads and refers them out to task forces for investigations. You are not the only victim of these scams but if we do not file a complaint it may not get the attention deserved. Do not think that you are going to get a call from the FTC because you filed but it can help raise awareness with the FTC so they can take action.
  The FTC however can open investigations against entities that have violated consumer protection laws so filing a complaint is very important in this regard. FTC will not advocate on your behalf or even promise they will investigate the claim however it is one way they can get the information they need to put a stop to organizations that are violating the law.
  How to file a complaint with the FTC

  It is a very easy process but one that is vital to combating the scams that are taking advantage of millions of people.

• This will be my last entry into this site. 1st amendment didn’t/doesn’t answer any of the legitmate questions nor answer any of the obvious statements that “normal” people answer. He simply cuts and pastes the same stuff over and over again.

  Final statement of facts:

  1. 1st amendment must be taking money from an attorney in order to “blog” on so many sites. All he is doing is taking advantage of the same people he believes Jan-Pro, Coverall and others have taken advantage of.

  2. 1st amendment is out for blood and vengence. He has nothing constructive to do or say about this situation.

  3. 1st amendment has been called out, point by point by someone who has no ties to corporate Jan-Pro, Jani-King or Coverall and he hasn’t answered or countered on a single point.

  4. 1st amendment continues to “churn” the same quotes, pages, stories etc. and doesn’t answer any real questions.

  5. 1st amendment wants to attack anyone that gives him a point of fact and then he wants to make it personal.

  In closing, the administrator of this site has allowed 1st amendment to post things that others would get in trouble for posting. It makes you wonder why. Sites like these are supposed to be an area for “venting”, “for consolement” and “for discussion”. 1st amendment doesn’t fit that mold except for the venting part. He ends up shutting out and shutting up people who truly want to help. Unless 1st amendment can deny and prove that my statements are false, he needs to be banned from this site.

• To j who says that he is from Indiana ?

  1. I can’t help it if what I paste is the truth and it bothers you and your corporation jan-pro. I guess you Can’t handle the Truth.

  2. You keep stating that I’m out for vengeance and blood. This is your attempt to make me shut up. It’s your ugly attempt to take my 1st Amendment Rights. It looks like you and your company jan-pro can’t handle the dirty truth.

  3. We want justice that’s all. Look at one of the actions we seek , Number 5 of our complaint.
  Page 14 Number 5. Declaratory and Injunctive relief, requiring Jan-pro to cease its illegal Practices.
  Basically this means we want jan-pro to stop hurting and ripping off so many people.

  4. Now you say that you have no ties to jan-pro but before you were saying that you were and INSIDE person at jan-pro? Now you say that you have no TIES to jan-pro. Did you one day just wake up, and all of a sudden you said to yourself I’m going online to talk crap to people who got ripped-off by jan-pro. Did you not have anything better to do with your life.? We just can’t believe anything you say. I know that you are still with jan-pro, I just wonder how much they are paying you.

  5. I noticed you used the word “ Churn” that is the word that jan-pro uses when they take accounts away from people for no reason and then resale them to another new person who buys a fake franchise.

  6. You try and say that I just want to attack. Here you go again at your attempt to shut me up, to keep me qiet. We want justice and you try and turn it around, you want to make the victim the bad person. I wonder what you would say if jan-pro ripped-off your Mom. How would you feel then!

  7. You also want the Administrator to not let me post here. Here we go again at your attempt to take my 1st Amendment rights away. Your attemp to hide the TRUTH. This is exactly what jan-pro does to people, it tries to shut them up. I bet you would love to shut everybody up wouldn’t you.

  8. Thank You Administrator for letting all of us post. I feel that the administrator has been very fair in letting all of us post. However you want him to ban people who tell the Truth.

  9. To anybody looking into buying a fake jan-pro franchise this is what will happen if you buy a fake franchise, they will talk down at you and take your business away for no reason if you say something that they don’t like.

  10. I did answered all of your questions but you never answered all of mine. You never answered the following.

  A. How many people have left jan-pro.

  B. When jan-pro was exposed on TV on channel 52 on a show called “Al rojo Vivo” with reporter Maria Celeste the ladies that came out got Bounced checks and when they went to complain at jan-pro they got kicked out. Many of the ladies also said that there accounts were taken away for no reason . Jan-pro said they would fix there situation but it’s been months and they still haven’t.

  C. You called me names and trashed me because you wanted me to show you proof that I was taking legal action against jan-pro. When I offered to give you a copy of the Lawsuit and send it to your e-mail address you changed the conversation or simply refuse to do it.

  D. Corporate knows that there is so many problems but they still refuse to do anything about it. They still haven’t done anything to fix the situation. So this is my proof that the whole corporation is BAD. When we called Corporate they wouldn’t help us. We called them and asked them for help and they just wouldn’t help us. We tried to get help from them and they would not help us they just ignored us. We had no choice other than to seek legal help. I have received calls from almost every state jan-pro has a Franchise at even Canada.

  E. Why does jan-pro take accounts away from people and then resale them? That is Theft and Fraud.

  G. Why does jan-pro underbid there accounts so low that they pay bellow minimum wage ?

  To jan-pro corporation,

  You have hurt so many people, you have hurt so many families. Please stop doing so and rectify the situation.

• 1st amendment has not ties to any corporation, lawyer or makes not money out of this. Invested in a Jan-Pro franchise and did not get what it was promise, worst yet he was treated like an worthless employee after all of the money paid for the franchise like myself. However, like I said before there are some corporate gophers involved in this site that is to the point that is ridiculous the claims they post (from average franchise gross income, to average cleaning square feet per hour).

• I’d like to throw in my .02. Jan pro underbids because they do not care about the franchisee making profit. They get their royalties and sales and marketing fees no matter what. 20 percent of a 100 dollars is better than 20 percent of 0 dollars. I own a successful cleaning service. 4,000 sf of QUALITY production per hour is flat out bull shit. Can you do 4,000 sf of half ass production…sure…but Jan-Pro comes around with their little 50 point check list and knit picks then has their reason to take an account. Realistically a motivated employee could do around 2000sf of quality production per hour. I also want to know how any cleaning service on the planet could operate successfully with a 10 percent profit margin? Your company would need to have 300,000 in revenue before you could even pay yourself poorly for running and managing it. When people invest in Jan Pro they give you all this hype about how you will run your own business and control your future. Making ’12 an hour on your own terms’ isn’t running a business its being the business and getting paid shit to do it. Jan Pro is misleading, a rip off, etc. To say anything different is flat out silly or unintelligent. Running a competitive orginization is diificult enough before you have to give away 20.5 percent of revenue. Jan Pro has a 950 dollar package because they prey on the weak and uneducated. They know these people have no clue what’s going on, can treat them like dogs, and throw all the underbid contracts their way. Jan Pro works out OK for the people who invest 40k because the Masters know they can’t treat someone who h

• has an extra 40k lying around like an asshole Ever notice no successful business people invest in a Unit Franchise its because its a poor investment the smart mney stays away you are better off buying US Treasuries or working at Mcdonalds Jan Pro looks for Masters who can sell Jan Pro makes its money from selling franchises and selling accounts they dont care if they have to underbid an account to get it they get paid no matter how underbid it is investing in this company is a pooor poor idea and anyone who argues for it is a puppet or not as sophisticated as they say Your ROI with this company is peanuts if you can even manage to stay afloat again i have to laugh at ‘own your own business with Jan Pro..do the work and make 12 an hr with no benefits ‘ haha Where to I sign up for that rip off? i dont know if what Jan Pro is doing is illegal..im no lawyer what i do know is its a poor poor investment aka a rip off. And Jerry if you think this is a great deal you tell me what kind of business you want. Ill chatge you a fee, ill get you the work and charge you a fee, ill take 20.5 percent of your revenue, ill underbid because I don’t care if you nake a cent…and oh yea. Don’t let me forget to mention I will own the contracts that generate the revenue.

• Jerry, you seem like a rational man. Jan Pro is a terrible investment and I would consider it a rip off. I don’t know how any intelligent business man can argue in favor of a Jam Pro unit franchise. I myself get mislead and screwed by Jan Pro. I am a successful business man and operate a cleaning service that generates 6 figures of revenue. Since you feel Jerry is no good to deal with how about you post questions you would like answered and in defense of Jan Pro and Ill tell you why and with experience in an educated way why that’s not the truth. I don’t understand how you can stick up for a model like this when you have no experiience with it. So let’s have an intelligent discussion and all the people who read this site can decide for themselves

• To Joe A,

  I concur with what you have to say regarding the underbid accounts. Its nice to see someone on here with some true business sense. This is where most of the reform needs to take place. I believe that aside from simply perfoming the due dilligence when it comes to ‘gettting in the bed’ with Jan-Pro, most franchisees get the misconception that they are being ripped off, when they truly have no idea about how the bottom line numbers are generated in this business. Jan-Pro doesnt care about you making a profit, such as any other large major franchise organization. Thats what we need here is some perspective on things. Imagine being a Subway franchisee, and having little to no control over the regional owner who wants to put 17 stores within a quarter mile of each other. His goal is to increase market share and revenue for the brand. NOT YOU! Same here, Jan-Pro is in competition with the other Big 3 and they want to have their name in as many places as possible and in doing so, they enrich themselves greatly. There honestly isnt any true incentive in associating with any cleaning franchise company period. The costs associated with acquiring new business with these brands are extremely inflated. The ongoing fees are unjust and are not in line with actual real world costs (ex. Insurance 6% of monthy billings 2,000,000GL/50,000Bonding $25.00-6,000/mth when you can purchase 1,000,000/25,000 (which is all you really need)! Bond for less than 500/yr. They are making a hefty profit on selling franchisees insurance! They will encourage you to participate in their plan by telling you independent insuarnce is to pricey or they jack up the minimum coverages to make it expensive) Sales & Marketing fees are an absolute joke! If you do it right, it can cost less than $5/ customer to market yourself to potential customers (AdWords, Website/Blog, In House Promotions, Networking& Referrals, Cold & Warm Calling)

• With computers and technology being what they are, you could also do your billing and A/R for a fraction of what Jan-Pro takes! The only thing that they keep you in the dark about is how to measure and bid ur own jobs because this effectively puts them out of business! I am a hobbyist programmer and I am currently developing a piece of software that will allow you to put together professional and accurate bids. It will be available for download from the internet and will be hosted on a website that I am developing to service the needs of janitorial professionals. My vision is to bring us together as a community and not to bicker and debate over that which we have no control. It will have all the resources that you cant find anywhere about how to grow and be successful in this business. (To Former Jan-Pro Operations Manager: I would like to collaborate with you on this effort. I know you have a wealth of knowledge and people across the country can benefit from what you have to offer). I will post the links on this site when everything is ready) THIS IS THE BEST AND MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO SHOW JAN-PRO that we wont tolerate the BS they hand out and once there are no people left to buy franchises or to pay S&M fees, they will reform or collapse under the weight of their own mayhem.

• I do think its a rip off though. It may not be illegal (I don’t know, I’m not a lawyer) but it is a rip off. For everyone who gets pissed at Jan Pro just compete against them. Its not hard. If you delt with Jan Pro you have the insider view of how they operate, their tactis, and the knowledge of every other internationals tactics. After Jan Pro screwed me I did that. And I did it with 0 dollars. I got a professional logo designed (90 bucks), business cards (35 bucks) and liability insurance (500 a year seperated into monthly payments.) I picked up a phone book and called everyone in it and said ‘HI my name is Joe. I own … We are a commercial cleaning service expanding into the area. We provide service unparalleled to any other company around. Would you be interested in setting up an appointment to get a free estimate and hear more about us. 5 months later I bill into the 6 figures at 23 an hour at how long I decide it will take. I make them pay me back for what they stole from me by taking their accounts.

• ..And if your clueless how to bid during your meeting nonshalantly ask how long their company is there each night now. I’ve never not been told and it gives you an idea how much they are paying now. Oh yea. You’ve also seen all Jan Pros marketing material so you know what an internationals company material looks like. Get on Microsoft Word and come up with your own material to fit your company. It’ll take 2 hours. I wasn’t waiting for a lawyer to get my money back. Them screwing me has cost them over 25x what they got from me in 5 months.

• I am open to teaching anyone who wants to learn how to run their own operation.

  Many z’s are getting their own programs going, eliminating the “middle-man”; if you are a current operator you should consider doing the same.

  Many have asked me about the lawsuits. Calm down. Change is coming. It just takes time.

• Well where do I start:

  1. 1st amendment, noticed how you didn’t verify or deny that you were recieiving benefits from the law firm that is representing you and others in the lawsuit against Jan-Pro. (so much for clarity, honesty and straightforwardness)

  2. 1st amendment, noticed how you stated you did everything by the book, except you still didn’t go to mediation or arbitration in order to “settle” the issues as stipulated in the contract that you signed/agreed to when you became an owner/operator of a jan-pro unit franchise.

  3. 1st amendment, no one’s tried to “shut you up” because no one has as much time on their hands as you obviously do going from post to post and inputting your “cut and paste” attorney generated/spewing 1/2 truths.

  4. 1st amendment, no matter what I say, you accuse me of first being an insider, then not knowing anything, to working for jan-pro corporate to working for another law firm etc…. Bottom line is, if you know me, just reveal my name, title etc… yourself, you have my permission to do so. (but be careful, if your wrong, it will cost you and your law firm that’s backing you)

  5. 1st amendment and others: You want true change, you want to resolve the issues that are plaguing jan-pro and the others, come up with a dialogue, free of “emotion” and “lawsuits”, I’m sure that all of the “major players” would agree that change is a must.

  In regards to why buy a jan-pro, jani-king, coverall or other franchise,it’s really this simple:

  1. Lower overhead operating costs in regards to administration, insurance, office space etc..
  2. You get an industry known name. You don’t understand the value of it, but when you are going up against the “big boys” you don’t stand a chance of getting that contract without the name and reputation and references that name brings.
  3. You get training (if done properly) someone, stated that there’s “no way” to do 4,000 sq. foot per hour production. REALLY! I urge you to speak to “Team Cleaning Concepts” who has a system that teaches you to go at a 10,000 sq. foot per hour pace, I urge you to visit BSCAI and ISSA websites and see industry standard production rates for various types of facilities etc… Don’t believe them, go to Jon-Don, The Janitorial Store websites and see numerous books, production rate schedules etc.. free for downloading or for a small price.
  4. You get the proper support of a well trained sales staff that will allow you to grow as big or as small as you want.
  5. Jan-Pro, Jani-King, Coverall and others primarily advertise that this is a supplemental income proposition. Are there those that grow this into a full-time adventure yes, but primarily it is meant for those families who don’t want to work at McDonalds, Burger King, Rally’s, other cleaning companies that pay at or slightly above minimum wage, so yes, $12.00 per hour is a great deal.
  6. Real reform happens when people sit down and talk, if you ran into “road blocks” on the master and corporate level, then I can agree that maybe this was your last resort, but seeing the postings, “hearing” the anger and “feeling” that someone has filled some/all of you with dillusions of fame/fortune, I believe that nothing will happen until one or both sides drop the “lawyering” factor.

  Only change coming, will have to be done by reasonable people, i don’t see that here. By the way, that includes the “lackey’s” in charge of Jan-Pro Corporate.

• To j from Indiana

  It’s funny how you said that you were not going to post anymore but I knew it was a lie and here you are attacking me again.

  1. Now your accusing me of getting benefits from a law firm. I‘m not getting anything from anybody. I’m not getting nothing from nobody. I was Ripped-off and I’m simply standing up for myself. If you get ripped-off you should stand up for yourself. If you had close to 100 people calling you and telling you how they got ripped-off I think that you to would be bothered by it.

  2. Jan-pro refused to talk to us I tried talking to them and many other people tried to also. There is an article that came out I think on franchisetimes.com that says that the Franchisor gets to pick the mediator and they pay the mediator so the mediator will only rule in the Franchisors side because the franchisor pays them. Also by going to a mediator no changes get done the franchisor will just keep ripping-off people. With our legal action we put a stop to there illegal and unethical business practices.

  3. You did try and shut me up. You said that the administrator should kick me out. Then you try and say that I have to much time in my hands to be here but you have many post on here also. You have spent a lot of time here posting.

  4. You said that you were an insider but you would never tell us how many thousands of people have left jan-pro. You said that if I know your name that I should just post it. Why don’t you just post it .

  5. Again like I told you many of us tried to talk to jan-pro but they would not talk to us. Remember those ladies that came out on the TV special were jan-pro was exposed they said that when they went to talk to jan-pro about there checks bouncing they were kicked out.

  6. Our main objective is to stop jan-pro from hurting any more American families.

• 1st amendment: No your primary objective is to line your own pockets and to try and make some sort of fame and fortune for yourself. That’s why you are constantly posting on numerous sites and pointing people towards your “law firm” and the fact that you get a “kick” out of being so “famous”.

  1st amendment: My postings have only been recent. Unlike yours that literally go back for one year or more.

  1st amendment: Have you ever read the 1st amendment to the constitution, do you really understand what that means.

  1st amendment: If you and some of the others were truly interested in “reforming the industry”, you would be contacting the people that actually have a vested interest in Jan-Pro. Primarily the Webster Equity Fund. Those people don’t like publicity and they sure don’t like hearing from the “masses”. If you start calling them, emailing them, making your point to them, I can guarantee you they will instruct Jan-Pro to meet with a reasonable group of you and possibly one attorney. But no, I go back to what I said earlier and repeatidly, your out for “blood”, you have “vengence” in your heart , you want “fame and fortune” for yourself and the law firm you are working with.

  Anytime you want to end this “tit for tat” let me know and I’ll give you 10 to 12 points that would truly mean industry reform that ALL can live with.

• Jerry:

  In my opinion employment laws are being violated by the company as well as a few of the larger z’s.

  I would be happy to sit down with the proper parties, Illinois Department of Employment Security, and others, to discuss my material.

  It is factual, supported by numerous Court reference points and emotion free.

  I would prefer not to proceed to litigation but am prepared to do so if necessary.

  No matter the cost.

• I’m not arguing wether your way towards reform is right or wrong. I don’t care. I’d rather go out and proactively take the money they took from me back. I just want everyone to know who sees this site that cleaning franchises are a rip off regardless of if its an illegal rip off or legal rip off and a horrendous investment. I’d also like to add that paying for a 12 dollar an hour job with no benefits is absolutely positively not ‘as good as it gets’ or ‘a good deal’. That is a ridiculous statement. People want to own a business to make money, acheive the American Dream, and financial freedom. 12 dollars will get you none of that. You would be better off taking your franchise fee money and going to a local community college and earning a certificate for something.

• Joe A: Sometimes people aren’t interested in college, technical school etc… Sometimes people simply want to suppliment their income in order to purchase a house, buy a new car, put a child through college. Why do you think so many people work part time for a “traditional cleaning company”. Do you really think that everyone fits into the “same mold”.

  So let me ask you, what do you pay the people that clean “your buildings”. Per your own statement “im billing in the six figures”. In order to do that, you would need to be billing in excess of $8500.00 per month. Are you doing all of that work by yourself? If you are, god bless you!!!! I’ve been in this industry for over 25 years, I’ve NEVER run into anyone that can clean that much “square footage” by themselves on a nightly basis. You are the man!!!!

  For you to state “matter of fact” that the franchise cleaning business is a “rip off” plain and simple, makes me wonder how you got into the cleaning business at all. Franchise cleaning or owner/operator systems have worked for decades. All just a little different, but at the end of the day, they are a “name” at minimum. Is their verifiable problems with the system, YES!!!!!!! Can the be fixed, YES!!!!

  But let me ask this of you, do you think every traditional company runs perfect? If so, why do so many of them go out of business each year? Why do they have employee turnover rates in excess of 200% on avg. based upon the lates BSCAI facts and figures. Why do customers cancel their contracts with “traditional companies” nearly 5X higher than those run by the “RIP OFF ARTISTS (per you)”.

  Do you offer your employee’s benefits? If not, then don’t pick on an owner/operator that is simply trying to do better than their parents did!!!

  Talk about “talking down” to an entire group of people.

• Former Jan-Pro Operations Manager:

  Not sure where you fit into all of this, but let me try and understand:

  1. You don’t own a unit franchisee, so where’s your standing in any “lawsuit”?

  2. Unless you are going to reveal “privacy related issues” that I would strongly advise you against doing, you are going to violate your non-compete not only with Jan-Pro but with your “master owner” that paid your salery, benefits, commissions etc…that to me makes no sense.

  3. You claim to have information that states there are “employment law” violations on both the “master owners” part and the “larger owner/operators”. How did you get that information legally? First of all no Operations Manager in the Jan-Pro system has that kind of information related to the “owner/operators”. You aren’t even supposed to have any interaction with the employees of the owner/operator without his/her being there. If they were there, I’m sure that they wouldn’t allow their employees to reveal anything of substance.

  In regards to having information of employment law violations of the “master owner”, weren’t you and the others in the “office” paid salary?

  Finally, the subject at hand is the reforming of the masters and of JPI as a whole.

• I no longer do any cleaning. I pay between 8-11 an hour. I offer supplementary income. When I look for employees I do not tell them they are going to own their own business, control their future, or have the oppurtunity of financial freedom like Jan Pro does. You can tell me they don’t say that but there are full page ads in the paper here. 12 an hour for a part time job is as good as it gets. Jan pro doesn’t say that though. They tell you you will own a business, make all this money, etc. I heard it with my own ears. Why do I say it is flat out a rip off and bad investment.. It cost 3600 to purchase a 5k a year package. Jan pro owns the contracts and you are at their beck and call. Starting a traditional cleaning service cost me 100 for a logo, 35 for business cards, 500 a year for liability insurance (45 a month) and 22 dollars for 2 embroidered shirts, I made my own marketing material with Microsoft Office. With my 200 dollar initial investment I picked up a phone, opened the yellow pages and called every single person in it who needed a cleaning service and said exactly ‘ Hi My name is Joe, I own …, we are a commercial cleaning service. We are not your typical cleaning service. I’m just calling to see if your interesteg in setting up an appointment to get a free estimate and hear more about us’ I consider jan pro a rip off. I own everything and my initial investment was 200 dollars. Jan Pro is misleading. It may not be a rip off for the person who wants to supplement their income with a part time job. However for a person who wants to own a successful, profitable, fullfilling business to give to their children ( you have jan pro for 10 years w the option to renew for 10 years if they let you) it is a rip off. In my region Jan Pro advertises ‘financial freedom, own your own business, etc’. If you think its such a fantastic deal and investment why don’t you take your money (you seem rational and relatively educated so you probably have some) and invest in a unit franchise? Ill say it again. If you want to own a business, if you want to have real control over your finances DO NOT invest in Jan Pro. And I never said traditional companies have no problems. I said Jan Pro is a rip off. They are misleading to the point that I consider it lying. I heard it and delt with it myself. You can tell me I don’t know what in talking about, I’m a foolan etc. That is not the case. I am an educated, inteligent individual. They flat out lied and mislead me. The FDD allows them to make any changes in policy they want. When you are in a business relationship with someone you have to have a level of trust. I read the FDD and took it at what its worth. I didn’t expect 2 weeks later for them to change every policy that I initially agreed to. (But per the FDD they are able too, they can flat out do anything they want, wether its in your interest or not, and you could say as an educated person I should have known they could. I did, however in business there is a certain level of trust needed to have a good business relationship so I trusted them not to flat out change everything) There is no control on what a master can do. So I’m flat out blanket calling it a rip off. Can it be fixed..Maybe but right now its not fixed so its a rip off. If you want to purchase a 12 an hour job its not a rip off, if you want to own a business (and not just the literal definition of a business) its a rip off and poor investment. But I’d like to say again you are stopping at nothing to convince people differently so I have to ask do you own a UNIT franchise? If not and its such a fantastic oppurtunity with such a little initial investment why don’t you?

• To ( j from Indiana )

  1. Here we go again all you do is attack me and say lies about me. That is defamation and an attack on my character. You are only telling lies about me and making things up and that is wrong. I was ripped-off and I’m standing up for myself. My main objective is to stop jan-pro from hurting so many Americans. You are guilty of defamation and being a liar.

  2. Yes I have posted for over a year. More people and different people from different parts of the country also keep posting. By the way I’m not the only person tacking legal action against jan-pro. There has been many more people. I also find it interesting how you said that you were not going to post anymore but you keep on posting.

  3. Yes I have read the 1st Amendment. The reason I picked it is because jan-pro has tried to shut up people.

  4. I find it interesting how before you said that you knew nothing about Webster and now you want me to contact them. They can also contact us. Besides we contacted jan-pro many times. Again you keep lying and defaming me and telling straight out lies. You want to call it vengeance and blood but even a judge said that the way they operate is like a Modified Ponzi Scheme. When this Ponzi Scheme is totally revealed the authorities will proceed accordingly. We have the proof and will prove it.

• You know what I honestly don’t care. The point of this site is to make people see the bad side of the franchise business. You can argue its case all you want but if someone stumbles across this site while thinking about investing they will see so many different unhappy people that they would be brain dead to invest. Jerry, you must own a Master Franchise or work for a Master Franchise to so vehemently argue for it. Otherwise I have no clue why you would waste your time convincing people its a good investment. I’m going to speak for myself and myself only. I owned a Unit Franchise. I worked like a dog, got treated like a dog, and billed 70k a year and they took so much money for so many different things I wasn’t able to survive. I had to abandon my franchise. I took my 200 dollars and started fron scratch. I now have a Mercedes in front of my house. If you give any cleaning franchise your money your an IDIOT, just like I was. They will take advantage of you because business is about making money. The more the Masters screw you the more money they make. That’s life and you can’t really blame them. Either you can have the dollar or they can have it. Tough decision huh. I have nothing else to say I just hope that anyone who actually wants to own a business and is thinking about investing with these companies doesn’t and either starts from scratch or searches for a different investment. If not there is a good probability you’ll eventually be posting on this site too. If you want to pay for low paying job with a little freedom these companies are the way to go.

• Joe A: No i don’t own a unit franchise business, nor would i. It’s not because of it being a “bad deal” or a “rip off”. It’s because if I did anything for a “franchise based company” it would be as a Master Franchise Owner or in the corporate office.

  I’ve been in this for over 25 years, I’ve worked for some of the largest “players” in this industry, I owned my own business for a number of years in Florida. Yes, it was a traditional company. However, I have no problem stating this with an honest face, IF I DID OWN AGAIN, i would own an owner/operator based system.

  I would treat my unit franchisees as the “investors” that they are in my business, I would bend over backwards to make sure they received the best training, support and service that I could afford.

  I would never have my “business owed” going any longer than 90 days out. I would only fine when needed, I would correct and adjust where needed in order to have a group of satisfied, financially stable owner/operators as my “partners”.

  I wouldn’t sales and market fee anything more than for a 3x multiplier, larger facilities I would only go to a 1.5 multiplier.

  My finance rate would never be higher than 10 to 12% apr.

  My owner/operators would have the option of financing their starter kits up to six month’s interest free

  My owner/operators would have the “sweat equity” option for up to six month’s without paying interest.

  My owner/operators would have access to me at anytime within reason.

  My owner/operators would be paid by the 15th of the month following service not the 30th.

  My owner/operators would be able to bring their employees into a training class conducted by operations in order to assist with their training needs at no charge

  My owner/operators would be taught how to get jobs on their own and wouldn’t have to pay me sales and marketing fees.

  My owner/operators would be the best trained, well organized, best respected in the company.

  My owner/operators would be able to meet with me at anytime (within reason) and if I couldn’t satisfy their issue, I would gladly put them in communication with someone on the “corporate level”.

  I would fight for the unit franchise owners to have a “steering commitee” that would meet with a corporate representitive on a quarterly basis. (nationwide) not just in my “area”.

  I would allow corporate entity to audit me on a yearly basis to confirm that I was operating under the standards condusive to the “corporation” and my fellow “masters”

  I would be subject to fines and penalties similar in % to my unit franchise owners if I didnt live up to expectations and commitments including fulfilling “business owed” in a timely fashion.

  I would agree to have any/all legal remedies handled by a court appointed mediator and if still no satisfaction, I would allow “standing” in proper district or state court and abide by their ruling.

  I would agree to “full disclosure” if at anytime anything was to be changed in the FDD, it would be put on notice for a period not less than 90 days prior to taking effect.

  I would agree that any/all fines could be/would be waived with appropriate verifcation by Operations, myself and the customer.

  I wouldn’t “hold” any customer past a 30 day cure and 30 day cancellation policy and all owner/operators would have to agree to the same.

  I would allow 1 turn down without counting against “clock” for any contract turned down by an owner/operator, would only count 50% for the 2nd and 75% for the third with 100% counting from the 4th on.

  I would allow any owner/operator to “opt out” and get a full refund after 30 days of working in their first contract, minus any needed costs, such as used equipment etc..

  That’s how I would run my Master and that’s how I would restructure/reform this “commercial cleaning franchise industry”. I would put any company that didn’t “conform” to the above out of business within three years.

  Just in case you, 1st amendment and any others wanted to know.

• Joe A: Did you buy each of your $8.00 per hour employees a new Mercedes? Or did you make money off them?

  Did you not pay for workmans compensation insurance, sure isn’t listed on what you paid on a yearly basis.

  Did you withold taxes from your employee’s? If so, you had to pay matching FICA, FUTA and SUTA. where’s that in your “list of items paid”.

  Where’s your equipment costs, uniform costs, background check information, chemical costs, overhead for your phone, your letterhead, your brochures, did you have internet advertising? how about a national contract program?

  Funny, you are made that “masters” make money, but you did the same thing. You forget that not everyone has the confidence to sell accounts, knows how to bid, form a contract, list task schedules, or did you simply have everything on a “hand shake”.

  You say this site is for only “whiners” “complainers””moaners” and the fact that overall good companies can get “slandered” on a daily basis. How about the masters that paid good money for the geographic rights, name, operating model for these various companies, what about the vast majority of franchisees that are making a living, fulfilling their aspect of the “american dream”. Just because their view of the “dream” is different than yours.

  Funny, you did the same thing to your employees, yet you want to “chastize” others. Funny, you complain and make “blanket statements” without thinking about the majority.

  Food for thought.

• 1st amendment: You don’t see me posting on any other site than this one.

  1st amendment: You don’t see me simply “attacking you”, though you seem to be the “biggest dog in the fight” and the one with the most time and resources. You also seem to be the only one attempting to gain fame, fortune and I’m still not convinced that your not recieiving “something” for spending all this time on sites, on the phone, writing these letters, visiting Atlanta and all the other things you claim to do at no charge or no reward.

  1st amendment: I’ve offered a differing opinion, that is all. You are slandering the Jan-Pro name, you are slandering and defaming the literally thousands of owner/operators that are currently in the system, making money, cleaning contracts on a nightly basis.

  1st amendment: I’m going to keep reviewing this site and when I see/feel that you are going too far, I’m going to counter you.

  1st amendment: When you get your day in court, you will lose. When you lose, then maybe you’ll join me in reforming the industry as it should be done for everyone.

  1st amendment: Just because I didn’t know about Webster the other day, doesn’t mean I can’t do research and find out the “players” and find out what their backgrounds are and when they got into the business and how.

• Well Jerry if you did that then I would not say it is a rip off. Unfortunately, there are many many bad apples in the bunch. I myself also would not mind owning a Master Franchise. I would not rip people off. The fact is that there are many many many bad Master Franchises so the easiest way to help people not get robbed is to call rip off. Jan Pro in my area is a rip off. Could it be changed and at least a decent fair oppurtunity…sure.. But it is the way it is and it is a poor oppurtunity. If I knew of a good Master Franchisor I’d say ‘Hey Jan Pro is pretty much a rip off but investing with this guy is OK’ unfortunately I do not know of and have not heard of a single one yet. So a way to save people money I to let them know chances are they are going to get ripped off..because chances are they are going too. I know you like to pick on Jerry 1st ammendment. Maybe he’s overzeolous, repetitive, uneducated, bitter, etc but I assure you he’s just a guy who got screwed who decided to take up a cause and fight for what he thinks right the way he knows how. Maybe he’s not doing it the way he should, maybe its not the professional way, mature way, educated way but at least he’s speaking up. Regardless if you want to believe it or not today chances are Jan Pro will rip you off. In the future could it be reigned in and operated the way its supposed to and not be a rip off…absolutely. I invested because the concept could work. Unfortunately, the Master franchises just screw people. So until Jan Pro International reigns in their masters and somehow takes responsibility to make the model work the ethcal way..the way it was originally intended… it is a rip off and people do not deserve to have their hopes and money taken. It takes some people a long time to save 950 dollars and its bull shit that some Master Franchise with a net worth of a million dollars will screw them out of it. Can Jan Pro not be a rip off..sure… But today it is a rip off.

• I said I started with 200. You don’t need workmans comp until you actually have an account to work at, you don’t need to payroll taxes until you pay somebody, checklist, contracts, etc.. Microsoft Office. I didn’t buy my employees cars. But I also didn’t mislead them. They knew they were getting an 8-11 dollar an hour job. I made money from them honestly.. I didn’t screw them, mislead them. Or rob them. You’ve never delt with this company as a unit franchisee so how you can basically call us all liars is beyond me. Do you think all these different people are just making this up? You are actually helping this site keep people from investing in Jan Pro though. You are stirring up activity so when people think of buying a franchise and type jan pro complaints in google this site pops right up at the top. Then people read it and see everyone complaining except for you (the guy who has never owned a franchise). So people should thank Jerry for making the message more prominent on the web. In a perfect world jan pro would operate the way its supposed too. Heck communism would work perfectly to and none of us would have to worry about a thing. Unfortunately no matter what you say, or how you reason it Jan Pro screws people. With that I am forever leaving this site because I’ve voiced my opinion and people could listen to the 100s of us who say we got screwed or you who…???…oh yea nothing..no success, no failure because you aren’t even involved.

• Joe A: Your welcome, sometimes it takes activity to make change happen. Honest discussions should always happen, that way resolution has a path to travel to and from.

  You, 1st amendment and others have voiced only one side of the facts as they are. You may have a legitimate gripe, never said you, 1st amendment and others didn’t. Simply stated that it can’t all be “one sided”

  If the “lackeys” at Jan-Pro had an opinion of me, they would “hate me”, they would state that I’m out for their jobs, I guess I am in a matter of speaking, you can’t simply “get a paycheck” when what you are getting/how you are getting that paycheck is on the backs of disgruntled owner/operators. I love this business, I’ve been in this for over 25 years, it hurt me when an employee of mine had an unfavorable opinion of me right or wrong, it hurts me to see and read and hear about the owner/operators that have been mishandled, mistreated and truly are under represented.

  I don’t fault you, 1st amendment and others for expressing your opinions based upon certain facts. But you all keep forgetting that what I said in the very first “opinion”. You can’t throw out the baby with the bath water!!!! You have made blanket statments, you have made “slanderous”, “faulty”, “not 100% accurate” remarks about Jan-Pro, Jani-King and other owner/operator systems.

  I am truly hoping that a “calm”, “cool”, “level headed” person reads all of your, mine and others remarks and see’s and verifies that there is a problem and a resolution to the problem.

  I hate lawyers, only one’s that win in lawsuits is lawyers. Look at “big tobacco” lawsuits if you think differently.

  You are right, 1st amendment needs to “clean up” his speech, release the ties to his attorney via promoting his attorney’s website, not call everyone “stupid”, “on crack cocaine”, “full of monkey dung”, just because they have a different side to the “same story”. His argument would hold more water.

  As far as “success or failure”, let’s see how this goes. Maybe, just maybe, some/all of what I proposed on this site ends up getting to “the big boys” and they actually do right by all owner/operators and that the “masters” realize how valuable all of you current and past owner/operators are.

• As written the model would work if it wasn’t taken advantage of, bent, and twisted. I initially believed that. That’s why I invested. But that’s not how its playing out in the real world. So until there is over sight and it is run properly I will continue to tell anyone who listens its a rip off. And ultimately I still think you better off going solo.

• Wow! I have been wanting to get involved with JAN PRO for MANY YEARS. Just made my initial appointment, but thought I would check the web for complaints…and boy did I find them…Is there anyone out there that is a happy franchisee of JAN PRO…I mean really I need to know…I have really always wanted to take this chance…I am very motivated and persistent, I don’t want to get involved with a franchise that is a dead end!

  I keep thinking all I need is a lift into the business and I can market to get my own accounts? Is this not a good idea?

• To jerry from Indiana ???

  1. I’am not the only person on this fight nor any kind of dog. I’m simply your average American standing up for himself.

  2. Don’t forget about the ladies in Connecticut who came out on TV and Exposed jan-pro. They have a big group who came out because they got ripped-off.

  3. Don’t forget about the group in New Jersey who were picketing in front of jan-pros offices. They also have a large group.

  4. There is also another very large group out there who is about to take legal action.

  5. Don’t forget about Climaco Guzman, I could go on.

  6. You accuse me of fame and fortune. Here you go again simply attacking me again. I would never ever want that. However what I find very strange is that you say that you are no longer with jan-pro but everyday you constantly attack me. Could it be that you might have lots to loose?

  7. You said that I visited Atlanta ??? I have never been to Atlanta.

  8. I’m tacking action because I don’t want to see anymore people hurt by jan-pro.
  I have heard some very horific stories and I can’t just sit down and do nothing.

  9. I’m not slandering I’m simply telling the truth. However you have been defaming me and spreading lies about me.

  10. You said the following = “1st amendment: I’m going to keep reviewing this site and when I see/feel that you are going too far, I’m going to counter you“. What you said sounds exactly how jan-pro threatens people.

  11. We have a lot of evidence, very strong hard evidence and witnesses. I guarantee you that when you hear this evidence that you will be shocked! We will win this case.

• To Sonja,

  Please dont allow what you are reading here to deter you from pursuing and goal or dream that you have set for yourself. There is a great difference of opinion here, as well as truths, half truths, and outright lies. No one can tell you what you should do, but if you are looking for some guided advice allow this to be a summary for you.

  If your desire is to become truly FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT of a full-time job, etc , and maintin a comfortable level of control over your business affairs and direction that you want to take to build and establish yourself then I would strongly advise against a investment in Jan-Pro or any other cleaning franchise. If you have some knowledge of Profit & Loss and can develop strong financial plans for your business and then manage those plans to develop the bottom line, you shouldnt invest. If you dont mind doing true ‘legwork’ to bring in new revenue and can handle rejection well, you shouldnt invest. If you are (or can afford to hire someone) strong in the operations side of the business (hiring, training, scheduling, etc) you shouldnt invest. If you can build and maintain positive and successful business rapport with potential clients, do not invest.
  IF you can follow-up and follow through when things go wrong, do not invest.

  If you can perform the aforementioned with any degree of ease, then there is no point to giving your money, control, and santity to someone who will, but only for a hefty premium. You should consider a relationship with Jan-Pro similar to the one between a Movie Star and his/her agent. THEY BASICALLY PERFORM AS YOUR BUSINESS MANAGER UNDER THE GUISE OF A “FRANCHISED BUSINESS”. There are obviously some benefits to such an arrangement, however as it pertains to this circumstance, a situation where mutually beneficial business relationship is established is NON-EXISTENT!!

  I dont agree that it rises to the point of fraud, theft, etc, however there is abuse in the system (as in any), and one based soley on self enrichment will exploit the contract language to his/her benefit. I strongly believe that the ones that suffer the greatest in this system are the ones that have not prepared or educated themselves to become a business owner/operator.

• If you are comfortable with allowing someone else to control or dictate your future then you will be fine. I understand that everyone wants something different from this, so there isnt just a single approach to your inquiry. If you just want to pay a few bills or have a little kick around money then go with Jan-Pro. They will allow you the fastes ROI possible with minimum frills (initially). If you are smart, you get in, get what you need, and get out before the shit hits the fan and you have to see the ugly side of things; but if you are a true operator with the guts for the higher risk with higher returns, be INDEPENDENT and avoid the added stress of another hand to pay and mouth to satisfy.

  There are people who I am sure are doing well with Jan-Pro, but that is often just an illusion because 21-23% off the top and fees for acquiring new business will allow for a very small profit margin (if any). With labor being your single biggest (and hopefully budgeted) expense, plus taxes, insurance, supples, overhead it will be hard to reach and maintain profitability under the brand in your initial years. Not to say its not possible, but definitely not worth it if you have a alternative.

  Major Franchises such as Jan-Pro only account for about 30% of the total revenues generated in this industry. Factor in the fact that contracts are always changing hands, means that there is still great benefit in being a independent operator.

• AGAIN IF YOUR GOALS ARE LONG TERM, there is no harm in doing it yourself and your initial investment will be a fraction of what Jan-Pro requires. Your customers belong to YOU, NO ONE will take credit for your hard work, and NO ONE can take anything from you (but your competitor!).

  Dont Let them fool you with we TRAIN you or WE ARE NATIONAL!!

  The training actually sucks! There is nothing really ‘specialized’ about cleaning or their “processes” or “systems”. Its just marketing!!! Get DVD’s, YouTube, Books, ISSA. You’d get a lot more for a lot less.

  I joined Jan-Pro because I believed that they did have an edge on bigger accounts. Again, all hype. I have never been offered a account over 400 after being in a resonable period of time, and of recent, the billings have become absolutely horrendous! I talking money that doesnt cover travel expenses per month, let alone a salary, taxes, supplies, and some profit!!

• The master owners I deal with seem to give higher priority to the bigger franchise fee check than the person eager to grow and willing to work within the system for the benefit of the customer. Actually since they took my down payment, it seems like it has to take an act of god to evoke a response from them regarding critical issues concerning my development as a franchisee.

  Operations Managers. PLEASE DONT GET ME STARTED!! I feel if you are going to deal in customer service for a living, you should at least be PRESENTABLE, and able to carry on a conversation free of street slang and other yibberish!!! They are very quick to get in front of your customer to divert direct communication between you and your client. THE ONLY POSSIBLE MOTIVATION FOR DOING THIS IS TO CATCH YOU ON A BAD DAY TO PULL THAT CUSTOMER RIGHT FROM UNDER YOU!!!! BEWARE OF THE SNEAKY BASTARDS!! THEY MUST HAVE A QUOTA FROM THE OFFICE!! I SMELL OPS MANAGER!!!!! They are supposed to be your lifeline and first line of defense in times of trouble, but are often used as pawns by the master owner with cruel intentions and they have been of little value and resource during my time as a franchisee

• 1st amendment: You say that a “countering opinion” is a threat to you personally, I find that odd since your “screen name” should mean that all opinions are wanted, needed and that everyone has a right given by god to express those opinions free of prosecution!!!

  1st amendment: Noticed you actually used proper format and didn’t call me and the others on here “full of monkey dung”, “on crack cocaine” and other insulting statements. BRAVO!!!! You actually sound more reasonable and because of that, I actually agree with you.

  1st amendment: What do I have to lose? I’ve been in this industry for over 25 years, I love this business with all my heart. It literally kills me when I hear, see and read about the stories that you are talking about. It pains me deeply. I personally saw many of the same issues you and others have described during my short time at Jan-Pro. I was truly embarassed, I was truly mad, I was truly PISSED OFF!!!! However, that’s when I found out that there is a major “flaw” in the operating and oversight system and relationship between corporate Jan-Pro and that of the corporation holding the “Master license”.

  Jan-Pro International as a whole is a good company, full of good people. Though I still say the person and some of his leiutenants at the “top of the food chain” are only there for the paycheck and do not truly care about the business as a whole, nor the people affected at the bottom.

  Jan-Pro International needs to take the company through the “wringer” in a way, they need to “break down” the weaker Master Owners that are not running their business the way it was intended. They need to take huge oversight control of those Masters, get them out of the business as quickly as possible. They need to arrange sale of those Masters (yes, despite your statements and those of the others posting here, there are numerous Masters that on the “whole” are running their operations the way they are supposed to) to those doing things correctly and that have the correct “moral compass” in their lives.

  There needs to be reform in the owner/operator industry as a whole, but when I see what I see, when I hear what I hear, when I compare Jan-Pro to Coverall, Jani-King and some of the others, I believe they can still be the best of the three major players!!!

• Sonja: Investigate your choices thoroughly. There is plenty of information for you to form your own opinion located in the FDD and the UFOC. I encourage you to call all of the current/former owner/operators listed. If you don’t reach at least 50% of them and speak with them personally about Jan-Pro, call that Masters Office and verify the numbers listed.

  I truly believe in the Owner/Operator system, especially for those just starting out, what they forget to tell you is the costs “upfront” that you must have in order to get “your business” started on its own. From marketing materials, to insurance, to equipment, to training on your own etc… Also, a “name” is extremely valuable in today’s world. Yes, for smaller “$195.00” per month accounts and less, not so much. But you want a medical facility, a school, a professional office building, then you need a name. They don’t give those to “billy bob’s mop and bucket company”.

  Check out your “master owner” thoroughly though, talk with the franchisees as stated, “interview” their Operations and Sales Team, if a “master owner” isn’t proud of his “staff” then he/she “wont show them off”. Remember, a large part of your “investment” is directly in the hands of those people. Sales to get the work for you/on your behalf and Operations to assist you in keeping that work.

  Good Luck and Good Choosing no matter which way you go.

• A believer: I am truly sorry that your “masters” aren’t concerned about your growth, that is unfortunate for sure. I don’t understand why, when you actually “break things down” you need to have proper balance when you run a master operation. You will always need an “influx” of new owner/operators to keep yourself and staff “fresh”. But you need some “stallions” to drive the engine. Those “stallions” are the existing owner/operators that want to grow their business and take it to new levels.

  Part of the problem with the “masters” in place, they weren’t trained themselves properly. They can’t see past the “franchise cash” in order to look at “big picture”. They get in the habit of having continual money flowing in, which is a short term “fix” to their problems. Long term solutions come with long term commitments which is where the “notes” come into play for/with existing owners coming to grow their businesses. A properly run Master must have/should have both types of revenue and that revenue “stream” must be done in a reasonable and responsible manner. 5X and 4X multipliers are ridiculous!!! They are harmful and they aren’t necessary. See my earlier post about reforms needed to see the multipliers as they should be done.

  You are right about the Operations Managers. They are encouraged to fine, they are encouraged to transfer, they are encouraged to find issues that cause problems for the owner/operators. This is not the proper role for Operations. Operations is supposed to Train, Support and Service the owner/operators, they aren’t supposed to be the “enemy”. However, Operations is also responsible to the customer, they do have a role in making sure the owner/operators are performing their tasks correctly and that the customer is happy with them. Operations is to “correct” and “stabilize” the account through the owner/operator envolved in the account, “pulling” should be done as a last resort and only under the correct/proper circumstances.

• 1st amendment: What’s next. If not reform and compromise, what’s next. Have you thought about the literal thousands of owner/operators that are still in the system and are doing their accounts on a nightly basis. What about the “masters” that are doing a good job that have made an investment and are actually doing things the “right way”. What about those “good people” that I’ve described that work for Jan-Pro International, what about them.

  Let’s say you win,( you wont’) you get “class action”, depending on the “terms and conditions” you could actually put Jan-Pro into bankruptcy, so the 100 or so get “something” though most of it/vast majority of it will go to the attorneys. What aobut the 7500 to 10000 owner/opertors that won’t get anything. You seem to forget, that Jan-Pro International, itself isn’t a “huge corporation”. The 100 plus “masters” are larger combined entity than JPI. The contracts are with the masters, the bulk of the franchise cash is with the masters, the bulk of the “multipliers and notes” are with the masters.

  I’m not suggesting that your lawsuit by itself is going to cause the “harm” i’ve outlined, but sometimes you need to think of “what’s next” and you need to remember, at the end of the day, there are more people “in the food chain” than out of it.

  Make your own mind up, don’t let attorneys dictate what’s right/wrong. If Jan-Pro International won’t meet with you and come “clean” with a plan that fixes the problems described and won’t listen to reason, then make contact with Webster directly. They are investors, they’ve got major skin in the game and they want/need this to stop sooner than later.

  You don’t think attorneys win in this situation, forget about the thousands they are getting in fees, look at the publicity garnered by them, before you barely heard of some of these people, now they are on news programs, online seminars, writing pamphlets and manuals, upgrading their websites, doing interviews for web, print and television media. You trying to tell me they aren’t in it for the fame and money?

  Find common ground, reach out to JPI and Webster one more time. Don’t feel comfortable doing it by yourself, then do it through your attorney, order him/her to attempt one last time.

• To jerry from Indiana

  1. The difference between you and me is that I was ripped-off and I have the proof. I saw first hand what jan-pro did to me and other people. We have the proof. I speak the truth and you come in here and make things up and lie about me and that is wrong. You defame me. Besides I have never told the administrator to kick you out, like you have said he should do to me. If jan-pro wouldn’t of ripped-me off I wouldn’t be posting here. However didn’t you say that you are no longer with jan-pro, however you come in here every day and attack me , make things up and lie about me.

  2. Don’t act so innocent you called me so many dirty names and defamed me constantly that I lost count.. Also you didn’t get ripped-off like I was. I did. I wont say bravo until jan-pro stops ripping people off.

  3. You say that you were mad at the way jan-pro was doing business but then it seems like you switch it around and say that they are a good company. Here is were you are very WRONG! Here is why, I have received calls from people complaining from almost every state that jan-pro does business in. You say that they need to breakdown the weaker master owners this would mean the whole company because I’m getting calls from almost every state jan-pro operates in. Besides corporate is responsible for the whole thing and they are also the biggest problem. They started the system and responsibility falls on them. Again I have had calls from almost every state jan-pro does business in and every call that I have gotten people tell me that they know of a lot of people that are also getting ripped-off.

  4. Again you are wrong jan-pro is not the better of the other two. All three of them are just as bad. There all running a Ponzi Scheme!

• Jerry:

  Please send me contact information for “Webster” – I will be happy to send them some of my information.

  In regards to your questions, my standing is one that my termination was in violation of public policy.

  Yes, I have information that most do not; I have witnessed things most will not see. And yes, it is my intention to use that information against the owner. In my case its personal not business.

  The non-compete, (even considering the “Sunbelt” decision), is worded in a way that it will not be enforcable in Illinois on numerous grounds.

  Change is coming, it will just take some time.

• 1st amendment: No common ground with you is there? I go back to a reasonable man realizes when there needs to be negotiation and when the overall good for the many outweigh the few.

  1st amendment: It is obvious you don’t care abou the thousands of current owner/operators in the system, cleaning facilities on a nightly basis. You keep harping on the “past ones” and forgetting about the current one’s. When you disregard those in the system currently, you lose validity in your argument.

  Defamation, when? Do you even know what that word means? Someone comes in this site and turns it upside down with reasonable talk, reasonable propositions, atttacks the fact that you are constantly “pimping” your attorneys name, website and then questions the fact you may/may not be getting something in return?

  You claim there are no good master owners, all of Jan-Pro International employee’s are thieves, all master owners have stolen, committed fraud, lied to, decieved you and others and no one counters your statements until me. So what do you do, you call me names, you claim I’m on “crack”, you claim “I know nothing”, you claim “i’m full of monkey dung” etc… It language like that, statements like that, that I questioned the “oversite” by the administrator and my comment was as follows ” I wonder why he allows 1st amendment to get away with things that the rest of us would probably be in trouble for?”

  You keep going down the same paths over and over again, you claim you are the “victim”, you have no fault at all in what happened to you, you were “unintelligent” when you read the FDD, you were “forced” to sign the contract, you were at no fault when you had your accounts taken, your accounts that were taken were “underbid”, you stated that the “corporate entity” is to blame for all your ills, your loss. Someone offers a differing opinion, shows where your lawsuit will be “ripped to shreds” and yet you still don’t listen. Sad really, you have an opportunity to truly do good, yet you only care about yourself and a few disgruntled owner/operators.

• Former Jan-Pro Operations Manager: Trust me, I fully understand where you are coming from. I truly was very “disgusted”, “discouraged”, “pissed”, “disappointed” and “hurt” when I left Jan-Pro myself. I left well before I would have been terminated, it is very upsetting when you see the things that you see, hear the things that you hear, witness the lack of respect given to the owner/operators which I truly do see as “investors” and when you bring those facts up to the “higher authority”and they do nothing, say nothing, question your motives and your honesty.

  At the same time, there are things you were trusted with that could not/should not be revealed and as long as the paid you what you were owed, in my opinion they deserve that “respect”. Of course, that is voided if something was “illegal” then you have an obiligation to turn your information over to the proper authorities.

  I wish you well in your endeavors, if you wish to find out information on Webster they have a website full of information including names, phone numbers, emails etc…