JAN-PRO Franchise Complaints

723 thoughts on “JAN-PRO Franchise Complaints”

• Open Forum: Now that I’ve disposed of “guest” and 1st amendment still hasn’t decided to join us yet, lets talk more about training as it pertains to the owner/operator.

  For those of you still “in the system”, here are some helpful ideas:

  1. Organize your work and your facility:

  a) On your trash barrel, you need to have it outfitted with a “wrap around” maid caddy, you need to have your microfiber cleaning towels, microfiber duster, johnny mop, restroom cleaner, scrub sponge, gloves, all purpose cleaner, glass cleaner, trash bags all arranged.

  b) starting from the front of the facility and working back or starting at the back and working to the front. Really depends on two things: 1. Where’s the dumpster
  2. How large is the facility. Answer those questions, you’ll figure out the best way to “flow”.

  c) when cleaning “office areas”. Dump the trash unless it has liquids, bag is torn etc. then change the bag. Wipe with disinfectant your phone reciever, coffee or beverage spills on desk top. Run your duster across the top of the desk, where cleared of material, across the legs of the chair and the “crack” of the seat to remove dust, hair etc…. When you are cleaning the desk area, look at the floor, if there’s alot of debris, pull chair out, that will tell you or your partner that area needs to be vacuumed.

  d) when cleaning restrooms. Put your bowl and urinal cleaner in there areas first so that way it is allowed to “work” first, then remvoe your trash (always change liner) then restock your paper and hand soap, then clean your sink, your mirror, sweep your floor and check your vent (you should vaccum with backpack when needed or at least once per month) then clean your toilets and urnials last, be careful to check for drips, base of toilets and “lip” of urinal.

  Once finished cleaning restrooms, office areas etc… Clean front entrance area well, vacuum all floor surfaces, wet mop all hard surfaces.

  Hope this helps.

  More to come…………

• Guest: Amazing how you and 1st amendment continue to “pick on people” that you don’t know and probably don’t respect. Let’s get a count:

  1. New Jersey
  2. Black People, you and 1st amendment both
  3. People from the south
  4. Non-attorneys
  5. Fat People ( I happen to be large, you pick on me, don’t respect me)
  6. German People ( you called me “dutch boy”)
  7. Monkey’s (1st amendment to me at least fifty (50) times or more)
  8. People from Indiana, People from Florida (me both times)

  Is there anyone you like other than yourselves and illegal immigrants?

• Guest: Noticed how you didn’t counter any of what I was saying in regards to the actual makeup of the FDD. Of course, you picked on my use of “” and stated that I used them all up. Talk about a waste of time and motion on your part.

  I respect the fact that even you didn’t dismiss the facts that I stated both about English being the only official contract and legal language for U.S. based companies.

  I also respect the fact that you didn’t bother wasting your time trying to understand the nuts and bolts of the industry as I was pointing them out. You were more consumed by the sheer numbers and not the substance. Sounds like a typical attorney to me.

  “if it doesn’t fit, you must acquit”

  More to come………..

• To Jerry from Indiana who said that he is an insider at jan-pro ???

  You have got to be Kidding me, you posted 8 Times TODAY.

  Today is SUNDAY !

  Today is SUNDAY !

  Did I mention that today is Sunday and you posted 8 times.

  You posted from the Morning all the way till late at Night.

  How much is jan-pro paying you $$$$$$ ???

  Some of your post are very LONG. It’s obvious that you have a lot to loose when we go to trial.
  You seem very, very DESPERATE. You are working so hard to do DAMAGE control.

  Maybe if jan-pro stopped ripping of so many people they wouldn’t have to pay you to be on every day even on Sundays, or on 4th of July or on Fathers Day. You said that you are a father on another post but you spent fathers day posting here all day!

  How much money is jan-pro paying you to come in here and post everyday, all day long $$$ ???
  Jan-pro is going to give you one big paycheck $$$

  Mean while jan-pro keeps ripping of more people, I keep getting more phone calls from more people that keep geting ripped-off. Mean while jan-pro takes vacations/coventions in Vegas.

• You can read another article on how franchisees keep ripping off people. To read the whole article you can go to http://www.cmmonline.com

  Franchises: Avoiding the scams
  by: Michael McCagg, Managing Editor

  Federal officials are vowing a crackdown on scam artists in the franchising industry.

  “The janitorial sector is an area that sticks out. We get a number of complaints about unsavory business practices in it,” said Steve Toporoff, a spokesman for the federal agency.

  Derrick Rill, deputy director of public relations for the agency, added that franchising schemes in the janitorial business have grown so troublesome that the agency will be targeting the public with a new educational campaign later this year.

  Trouble lurking
  Daniel said he recently met one franchise owner who paid $6,500 “to go into business” and, after several weeks, had received one contract that left no profit following supply purchases and franchisor fees.

• 1st amendment: Well you posted 6 times today, or do you only count it twice since all you did was cut and paste. Well how many times did you post on the other sites, I don’t waste my time on those, don’t seem to have as much “space” to write.

  Besides Dutch Group and Voice of Reason have “my back” on those sites, if/when you have something to say, an “original thought” they handle you.

  Look forward to your next “posting of information”, will that article be 15 years old, 10 years old etc… You really should make ” pact” with “guest”, things only in the last 3 years should be posted.

• Guest: So I shared with you “my dream” last night and told you about Roberto and how he was off to Chicago today.

  I also shared with you the “profile” that I’m putting together about you. I think I’m getting closer to “who you are”.

  I know you are so much smarter than me, that I don’t deserve to breath the same air, take up space on the earth, much less be on the same “post” as you, but come back with at least some original thought. I know you are busy on your “yacht”, talking to the “kerry’s”, planning your next “rally” and of course your “court case”. But give me something to go on.

  Getting bored ripping your case apart, giving 1st amendment nightmares, giving you the “night sweats” and you still don’t know “who I am”.

  More to come…………

• To anyone considering a Jan-Pro franchise:

  Jerry provides two compelling reasons to avoid this franchise. First he states that the top leadership is flawed, that the company is run by a CEO who simply collects a paycheck and, in his words, doesn’t have an ounce of sense.

  Thanks for that insight, Jerry. Why would anyone pay money to get on a ship being steered by the incompetent and untrustworthy?

  Another reason Jerry gives for avoiding the Jan-Pro franchise opportunity is that some (not all) of the Master franchises are dubious, untrustworthy and engage in unethical practices. Since Jerry is unable to provide a list of whose naughty & whose nice, buying this franchise is obviously the financial equivalent of russion roulette. Thanks for that warning, Jerry. You’re right… why take that chance?

  The fact that Jan-pro corporate is unwilling or unable to police the “bad apples” (your second point) confirms your first point that management is inept & untrustworthy.

  You know an opportunity is suspect when even its defenders provide reasons to steer clear.

• Guest:: At lest my motives are “pure”. I want to “reform” a portion of the industry that needs reform badly. For you, though it’s much more than that: Let’s take a moment to “recap” the lawsuit and the “misgivings” of the one described so brillantly as “guest”.

  1. Vested interest. We all know Jerry “v” has an interest as he has “Pimped” himself on a regular basis as “the lead plantiff in the class action lawsuit against Jan-Pro”. “Guest” we believe is either an attorney or he is the local SEIU steward in MA. either way, doesn’t really matter.

  2. Based upon general reason, it is pretty easy to “summize” that someone other than Jerry “v” is paying his group of $250 to $500.00 per hour attorneys other than him and his “merry band of disgruntled franchise owners”.

  3.Yes counselor for the record, ” I have openly and repeatidly called for the removal of Rich Kissane, I have openly and repeatidly said there are “bad apples” and that “corporate Jan-Pro needs to handle those “bad apples” correctly”

  4. For the record, I have torn to shreds “jerry v” and his “merry band of disgruntled former owner/operators” lawsuit. I have stated where he failed, how he failed, who he failed and why he failed. If everyone viewing this post is like “jerry v” then I strongly suggest they don’t purchase an opportunity either.

  5. You know what all of the above gives me, versus you, credibility!!!! Never said I was a “friend” of Jan-Pro. Sorry it took you so long to “catch on”. Must be that “black eye” you were given when “liz” pointed out you were making mountains out of the wrong mole hills.

  More to come……….

• Guest: You forgot to use “quotes” when you are “quoting someone”. I know you have to charge extra to the SEIU, because of the payment plan for monitoring and responding on this site. But it’s ok. There are no shortages of “quotes”.

  Let’s give a “shout out” to the thirty (30) thousand owner/operators in the “big 3″ that service their customer nightly. They are still ‘On the Job” despite the utter contempt and dismay of “guest” and 1st amendment.

  More to come……..

• 1st amendment: Time to recap why you are going to “lose” your lawsuit:

  1. FDD- We’ve established that you didn’t bother reading it, taking it to someone to read for you, that it’s full of language that is from the FTC, State Govt. , Federal Govt. and a bunch of attorneys. You still had time, opportunity and you “chose” not to read it or attempt to get someone to assist you.

  2. Underbid Accouts- We’ve established who bids what, how bids are put together ,pricing structures, who the real “whores” of the marketplace are etc..

  3. Fines against humanity- Since you didn’t bother reading the FDD you didn’t see the areas where customer service, customer contact, contact with the regional office, performance duties etc… are allowed and usually on done in order as a “last ditch” effort to get your attention.

  4. Stole my accounts- Customer sent Jan-Pro an email, wrote a letter to ask for your removal because of performance related issues. It is their right to do so, under the cotnract you didn’t bother reading, though you got it.

  5. Misrepresented ” how much money I was going to make”: You’ve got no proof, only your statement. I think we all know where this is going.

  So, once a jury of your “peers” see’s and hears all the “evidence” from both sides, they come back with the only “judgement” that they can, let me ask you a question, what’s your gameplan for payment to Jan-Pro for attorneys’ fee, filing fees, court fees etc… when you lose. Maybe you should plan that out better than the “aiwah” bunch with Coverall. Or did you get something in writing from the SEIU stating they would “pick up” your “judgement costs”. If not, might want to do so.

  More to come……….

• To anyone considering getting involved with Jan-Pro:

  To recap some of the statements Jerry, an alleged Jan-Pro insider, made that make a strong case for staying away from the Jan-Pro franchise:

  1. He would not buy one. Jerry states that if you have cleaning industry experience, like him, there’s no need to buy the franchise. So it would be logical to team up with someone with experience, or work until you get the experience, but by all means don’t buy the franchise.

  2. The FDD is incomprehensible, and if you sign it and later learn about all the tricks embedded in there to be used against you, people like Jerry will ridicule you for being so trusting. Why bother?

  3. The CEO and Senior management hasn’t a clue. Based on what Jerry says, why join such a poorly managed company?

  4. Some of the master franchises are corrupt and will screw you over. Since Jerry won’t name names, why take the chance you’re buying from one of the “bad apples”

  5. Jan-Pro does not have the ability to control its Master franchisees and therefore does not have control of the brand they license to their franchisees.

  6. Despite his own arguments 1-5, Jerry still encouraged prospective owners here to pursue a franchise with Jan-Pro. What does that tell you about their concern for new franchise owners? That they would encourage investing in a corrupt, ineffective company with management that should be ousted?

  If Jerry had the courage of his convictions, he would be calling for a moratorium on all new Jan-Pro franchise sales until these problems are rectified, until the bad apples are brought under control and until a CEO “with a clue” is leading the company.

  Logical recommendation, Jerry?

• Guest: When will you finally be honest, well I already know the answer to that question don’t I. Especially since you have a “vested” interest in making sure that Jan-Pro especially is “held under water”.

  1. I told everyone not to trust you, me and especially 1st amendment
  2. No I don’t care for the upper managment of Jan-Pro as noted prior
  3. No I don’t think all Masters are properly run. Of course, you like making false statements such as “all masters are corrupt”, therefore as usual, you lack “standing’ that’s a term you understand.
  4. Never said they don’t have the ability to “control”, said they needed to exercise control.
  5. I told people to make up their own mind. Again, you like to “skew” things to fit your “issue”.

  That’s funny when you talk about “courage” you won’t even reveal yourself nor your motives. Here’s a “genuine thougt” for you, how about you reveal yourself, tell these “listeners” who you work for, what your agenda is and let them see for themselves who the “honest broker” is.

  More to come…………..

• Guest: Logical recomendation is, “your an idiot”. But I digress. Hope to see some more of your twisted thoughts and can’t wait for 1st amendment to come back onto the site with more of his “mind numbing” cut and paste critiques that will be from:

  1995, 1998, 2002, 2005. Of course, he still hasn’t told anyone about the monies that the “aiwah” crew owe to Coverall. Can’t wait until he has to come up with the money when he loses. Or did you agree to cover his loses. Since he’s “pimped” your law firm all over the place.

  More to come……..

• Actually, I didn’t say “all masters are corrupt.” I quoted you as saying some are, which you did. You also said the CEO doesn’t have an ounce of sense, and that corporate doesn’t crack down on the “bad apples” in their ranks.

  So if someone is looking for a franchise company with poor upper management and untrustworthy masters in their midst, Jan-Pro would be a good choice in your estimation? If they’re not, Jan-Pro is not a good choice… based on your expert observations? Simple logic.

  At the risk of confirming your labelling me an “idiot”, I must confess I don’t know the meaning of a term you used. What’s the meaning of the term “Dilusions of Greatness”? Can you explain?

• Guest: Would you mind “cut and paste” the part where I said any/all of the masters are “corrupt”. When you can’t find it, it is another apology.

  Will explain anything you want, once you “reveal yourself”.

  Ask 1st amendment, he used the term first.

  Haven’t you already confirmed that you are an “idiot” from your previous postings, with such enlightment of your knowledge of the commercial cleaning industry as you don’t know how bids are put together, don’t know production rates, don’t know equipment, don’t know chemicals, don’t know customer service, don’t know that 50% of the FDD is mandatory information from the FTC and State/Federal governments, don’t know that there are over thirty (30) thousand owner/operators currently in the system for the “big 3” , don’t know that the real “whores” of the market are the largest national companies and the smallest “mom and pops”, don’t know that paperwork exists showing that 1st amendment was requested to be removed from his “accounts” by the customer, didn’t know that he had plenty of time, opportunity to do due dilligence on the FDD question, didn’t know that he was fined for not calling back the regional office or his customer several times.

  What more evidence do you need from me to prove that you are an “idiot”.

• Jerry:

  It’s at “Jerry on July 11th, 2010 7:09 am

  “a) Dilusions of Greatness: “

• Guest: I’m sorry, guess I didn’t make myself clear, I know I’m dealing with someone that constantly rides the “short bus”, but I meant the part where I said “all masters are corrupt, any masters are corrupt”.

  Dilusions of Greatness won’t be answered until you “revealing ceremony”.

  I know, I need to be more patient with you, but I’m in the midst of finding out one of the latest postings that 1st amendment put on another site, it must be before 1998.

  By the way, Roberto is in Chicago

• Guest: I’m sorry, in my dillusional state, I almost let you “slip one past”. You little devil you, You said that I said “FDD is incomprehensible” No, I didn’t say that, your client, 1st amendment did. He stated it was like “tax code”, guess that means he doesn’t pay his taxes either since he couldn’t figure out the FDD or bother taking it to someone who could help him.

  Do you think he over pays his taxes or does he under pay?

  By the way, did anyone bother checking the legal status of Jerry V and/or his merry band of disgruntled former owner/operators? With the “love affair” that he has with Telemundo and illegal aliens, it makes me wonder if anyone bothered to check if he and/they have “standing” in a cival court?

  More to come………

• Jerry asks “Would you mind “cut and paste” the part where I said any/all of the masters are “corrupt”.

  Seriously? You’re denying that you said some Masters are “bad apples” and that corporate needs to do a better job selecting them?

  In responding to allegations that franchisees were the victims of unethical practices, you stated

  “Some Master Franchisors are really the “root of the problem”: Everything that you are describing in your “frustration” is directly attributed to the Master Franchisor. It’s that level that is truly at fault” (Jerry on June 12th, 2010 7:29 am)

  Other statements:

  Jerry: “However, you get some bad apples with every lot, because Jan-Pro International and others don’t do a proper screening initially, and they certainly don’t follow up and through with them on a continual basis…”

  Jerry: “Hold Jan-Pro International accountable for not training, supervising, inspecting their Master Franchisee’s. Those are the “bad apples” that I’m referring too. Look at states like Indiana, Kentucky and some others, they are poorly run, managed and have numerous franchisees listed that are unhappy.”

  Jerry: “there are bad apples as Masters.”

  Seriously, Jerry, you are the last one to be nitpicking about the meanings of words. By “dillusions” I have to assume you mean something pickle-related, but can’t quite figure it out.

  Are “dillusions” daydreams about pickles?

• Guest: You seem to be somewhat smart, did I not understand something, you know I’m a Nascar fan and I’m really found of the South.

  Help me draw a line from “corrupt” to “bad apples”. Mine’s a little challenging, because the bus, just hit a bump.

  Now all those items you “cut and pasted”, I agree with 100%. You’re a real intelligent person for saying all of those things.

  I’ll have to call Roberto on that one, maybe Telemundo can get an expose exclusive done on “pickles” and the “illegal aliens who package them”. Then there’s a picture of you and your law firm rushing into the fields with your Legal Briefs.

  Did 1st amendment get up yet? Can’t find his latest date on article on other site. Think it’s 1995, but not sure, he “cut parts out” hard to tell.

  Your a smart man/woman, look up “corrupt”, then look up “bad apples”, see how close they are.

  More to come………

• To anybody looking at buying a fake cleaning franchise this is the kind of people that you will have to deal with.

  If you ever have problems and you call corporate they will tell you we can’t help you. They basicaly give you the finger!

  The manager wont care either. Once they get your money they wont care about you anymore.

  If you call the Master franchisor he will talk crap to you and insult you.

  Save your money and don’t let jan-pro rip you off.

  Recently a Judge compared a cleaning franchisor to a Modified Ponzi Scheme!

  Look at all the complaints on all the websites from all the people that got ripped-off. by jan-pro.

  This guy jerry that works for jan-pro has said that he would never ever buy a unit franchise but he tries to get you to buy one. Why is that ? Because he knows that its a modified Ponzi Scheme.

  He wouldn’t even let his Mother buy one!

• 1st amendment: Glad to see that you are finally “on board” today. I missed you tremendously, “guest” and I have been “sparing” but he keeps trying to draw a line from “corrupt” to “bad apples” and the “bus” I’m riding on keeps going over bumps. Can you give a brother a hand?

  Why do you keep insisting I’m working for Jan-Pro? Are you liking what I’m saying so much that you want to come back? Fine by me, but really, you’d have to go through retraining done by me, don’t think you’d pass.

  Most of the complaints “listed” are made by you, your attorneys (posing as “guest”) and mostly your merry band of disgruntled former owner/operators.

  I don’t need to buy a unit franchise, but someone with less skills than mine, may.

  Why do you continue to “mis-quote” Judge Young, even he “cleaned up his language” in his own “ruling documentation”, I don’t know, I wouldn’t want to be misquoted and I’m nothing but a Nascar Fan and fond of the South. I’m not an elitest like you, “guest” and Judge Young though.

  Momma doesn’t want a cleaning franchse, but if she did, I’d sell her one in a heart beat at full price too!!!!!!

• Guest: Look under “apple” then under “bad” then under “corrupt”. Hope this helps more than it hurts. One day, I’d like for you to “come clean”, know you won’t.

  By the way, Roberto has left Chicago and on his way HOME!!!!!!!

  Got to quit playing with you and 1st amendmend for a while, got a couple of “presentations” to make.

  Talk with you soon…………

• Why is it that jerry from indiana Is so scared of me posting articles that talk about how cleaning franchisors rippoff people??

  Is it that he has alot to loose because he owns a master franchise ?

  Is it because it’s the truth and he and his company jan-pro can’t handle the truth ?

  You should also know that jerry who works for jan-pro wants you to buy a fake cleaning franchise with jan-pro but he won’t let his own Mother or anybody in his family buy one!

  He gets so MAD when I post parts of articles and post the links to them. Well I dont care how much he Cries I will keep posting them because I don’t want more people to get ripped-off. Here is the article that jerry who owns a Master cleaning franchise doesn’t want anybody to read.

  Taking off the Gloves

  I’m posting part of the article here. You can read the whole article by going to the following website.
  http://www.franchisetimes.com/content/story_result.php?article=01374

  [Duplicate content deleted – ADMIN]

• Jerry calls himself the honest broker, but still won’t discourage people from investing their savings in a Jan-Pro franchise even though:

  1. He admits he would not buy one. Jerry states that if you one has cleaning industry experience, there’s no need for the Jan-Pro franchise.

  2. The FDD is incomprehensible… worse than the U.S. Tax code. Why sign an agreement you can’t understand?

  3. The CEO and Senior management are “idiots.” Why would you pay to be controlled by “idiots”?

  4. According to Jerry, some of the master franchises are “bad apples” whose territories are “poorly run, managed and have numerous franchisees listed that are unhappy.” Why buy a franchise from a master who might be a “bad apple”?

  5. Jan-Pro does not “exercise control” over its Master franchisees and therefore chooses not police the brand they license to their franchisees.

  Given these views, why would Jerry “The Honest Broker,” still encourage people to consider the Jan-Pro franchise? Why wouldn’t Jerry “The Honest Broker,” be calling for a moratorium on all new Jan-Pro franchise sales until these problems are rectified, until the bad apples are brought under control and until a CEO “with a clue” is leading the company?

  Could it be that Jerry “The Honest Broker” is more “broker” than “honest”?

• The Jerry, Guest, 1st Amendment Show is fun to read. I have to agree on one point. Jan-Pro and all the other so called “franchise” systems are simply marketing machines. The employees who clean, and they are employees, are basically sold jobs under the cover of franchising. It saves the money makers ever having to pay work comp, payroll tax, and many other charges that real companies with employees have to pay. Why on earth anyone would pay those fees for a job is beyond me!

• Pete:

  Well stated. I think you nailed it – right on the money.

  Of course, Jerry has already added you to his list of the “dillusional” socialist illegal-immigrant sympathizer anarchists as a result. :) Welcome aboard!

• Without out going back more than a month….Jerry must work directly for Jan-Pro. Far too passionate about not facing the facts. These companies have wronged so many innocent EMPLOYEES the FTC and the State of California have felt the need to warn potential “franchisees” about these tactics. http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/alerts/alt098.shtm
  http://www.corp.ca.gov/SRD/pdf/janitorial.pdf
  Let’s all face the facts…I know here in California Jan-Pro sold so many franchises the “new-business” owners were overwhelmed with their inabiility to prosper as promised. In one instance franchises were sold on different floors in the same building. Hello!? They sell “dreams” that turn out to be low paying jobs.

• But I really was just trying to find out the result of the Jan-Pro, Jani-King, Coverall class-action suit….and I happened on this site. I had to comment on Jerry’s rantings. He’s funny. He reminds me of BP- trying to defend themselves against all the people they have f***ed

• Pete: Way to get into the game late: Maybe you shuold spend more than just a few moments of your time and actually have a clue about what you are talking about.

  It is obvious to me that you and “guest” are cut from the same cloth.

  If you want to find out about the class action, don’t listen to “guest” or 1st amendment, bother checking facts for yourself:

  DLA Piper sucessfully defended Coverall in the allegations of “misclassifying’ of franchisees/employees and as a result, no monies awarded to plantiffs. Coverall sought “judgement” against plantiffs for attorneys fees, filing fees etc.. “rumored judgement” was approx. 200K for Coverall.

  Jani-King, nearly 1/2 of the “original plantiffs” were dismissed from the “action”.

  Jan-Pro not in “trail phase” as I’m sure 1st amendment and “guest” will verify since they both have “skin” in the game.

  I’m not going to repeat myself in regards to my status with Jan-Pro, bother reading the posts and you should be able to “deduct” for yourself.

  No one has f***ed anyone other than a few “disgruntled owner/operators”. As stated numerous times the “big 3” have over thirty (30) thousand owner/operators servicing quality oriented customers all over the United States.

  In regards to “innocence” in stopping by, hard to believe your “stopping by” comes complete with a “cut and paste” FTC claim.

  Ask “guest” what riding on the “short bus” means, I think he means you.

• Guest: People are allowed to make up their own mind. I’ve told them not to listen to you, me, 1st amendment or anyone else for that matter. How I get the title of “honest broker” is easy, you’ve lied, “skewed articles”, “skewed statements”, knowingly have a “vested interest” in the outcome of the litigation which you still haven’t verified nor denied, you have purposly misquoted me, misquoted others and have done nothing but been on the edge of slander and defamation.

  Other than that, you”re as honest as the day is long in Alaska in the winter time.

  I’m not the one that stated the FDD is like a “tax code” your “client” 1st amendment did, he does almost on a daily basis. My point was as follows, 50% of the FDD is mandatory language the FTC, State and Federal Gov’t. mandates, 25% is from attorneys (such as yourself, liz and “friends of the SEIU) have put in there trying to “stay out of trouble”. The 25% remaining gets overwhelmed but at the end of the day is probably the most important part “Policy and Procedures” and I believe that is why Jan-Pro and others have actually “pulled that part/copied it out” and put into Owner/Operator Training Manual.

  The “idiots” in control of Jan-Pro have actually very little to do, good/bad with how well an owner/operator can/will perform. However, you are correct in your statement(actually my statement) that Jan-Pro International does not exercise enough or proper amount of control over the “bad apples” as I described. (noticed how you “dropped” the “corrupt statement” after my direct and dear I say “right on” assesment that “bad apples” and “corrupt” are two different things completely. (I will take that as an apology for your lack of one being offered to me as directed)

  Now, I stated I would have no need for a unit franchise, why would I with 25 years experience in the commercial cleaning industry, which I have shown my substantial knowledge more times than you have in regards to your “knowledge of law”. However, if you don’t have that kind of knowledge, this is a GREAT opportunity for you! I would personally sell you one and not think twice about it, by the time you got through my training course, you’d be ready to take on a multi-storied office building and running production rates in excess of 5K per hour!

  Would have no problem with a moritorium on New franchisees, provided that SEIU agreed not to add any new members, illegal aliens would all go back home, 1st amendment would take the time to read the FDD, you would agree to “reveal” yourself. Since none of that will happen, why should a company playing by the rules, monitoring itself equal too or better than others in the industry, agree to something like that? Should “traditional companies” that knowingly hire illegal aliens be “suspended’ from doing business, how about the Large National Cleaning Companies that do “illegal sub-contracting”, what about the “mom and pops” that haven’t seen a tax document on any of their “employees” in decades.

  The reason I’m an “honest broker” and your not, I have no vested interest, I’m not getting “paid” or receiving any type of benefit from Jan-Pro, Jani-King, Coverall etc…, I’m not an attorney for Jan-Pro, not an employee of a law firm that Jan-Pro or any of the others are using, don’t have family working there, don’t have an ownership stake in any of the companies, don’t own stock etc….

  You, 1st amendment and others can’t say that.

• Jerry writes: “Pete: Way to get into the game late: Maybe you shuold spend more than just a few moments of your time and actually have a clue about what you are talking about.”

  Pete:
  Congratulations on earning your first personal insult from Jerry!

  You’ve arrived!

  Feels kind of like getting pecked to death by ducks, doesn’t it?

• Guest: That’s why I’m an honest broker. I don’t change my stance, even for friends of yours and 1st amendments!

  Are you jealous that I wasn’t as nice to him as I am to you?

  He’s new to the post, don’t want to scare him off, he also seems more “engaged” than your last “friend”, Sandra.

  Hope he stays, getting bored with 1st amendment, crying, whining, staying up at night trying to figure out how he is going to pay for Jan-Pro’s attorney bills, court fees, filing costs. Did he ever get with you on that document I suggested?

  Do ducks peck?

• Dont Listen to Jerry who owns a master franchise with jan-pro.

  Dont listen to his Rumors about the lawsuits againts the cleaning franchisors.

  The coverall case in Massachusetts was a Test case. only 3 plaintifs were used. The Judge already Ruled that all of the Cocerall people are infact employees. This is acording to the LAW. This is the LAW. A 3 Pong test was used to determine if the cleaners were employees and acording to the LAW and the 3 Pong test they are employees. On a later date they will be going back to court to acess all of the Damages. This same Judge compared the way coverall was doing business as a Modified Ponsi Scheme.

  Coverall recently started making there cleaners use time cards.

  The Judge also stated that he may certify the case as a national class action challenging Coverall’s Unfair and Deceptive business practices Nationwide.

  Also Rhina alveranga who bought a fake cleaning franchise with coverall was able to prove that she was an employee and not a franchisee. She recouped her loses, investment and also received unemployment benefits.

  In the Jani-King case, they have obtained class certification on the claim that franchisees who have worked in Massachusetts were misclassified as independent contractors.

  In the jan-pro case we are awaiting for the Judges decision for cross parties summary Judgement and for Class certification.

  Jan-pro Lost a lawsuit in Rhode Island. I also know of many other Lawsuits that they have settled out of court.

• Jerry from Indiana: Please put a concise and compelling package “you have the skills” with all of your crazy out of place opinions for the federal judge in charge of the lawsuit. Perhaps after reviewing your compelling package, the Ponzi Scheme will be known as the JaniPro Scheme. I am an active franchisee for the past 4+ years and this is the WORST INVESTMENT EVER! THIS IS NOT A BUSINESS, JAN PRO IS A LOW PAYING JOB WITH A HEFTY FEE!

• I think I’m a reasonable man. And I am sure there are ‘happy’ Jan Pro Franchises who are making 9-12 an hour as ‘their own boss’. Whoch I consider more of a manager because your only freedom is to make your schedule and make hiring decisions. Even these are vetted by the master. For instance you had to submit a schedule with the master and if u deviated at all you got a 50 fine. This is part of the contract where jan pro can change any policy. This is one of many policies implemented. Jerry helped change my opinion about peoples dreams. There are people who dream of nothing more than having some extra money to pay for college, buy stuff, whatever, and do it ‘as their own boss.’ Jan Pro is great for these people. However, I’ve owned a franchise. They advertise own your own business, control your future, make 100k plus. Well you do own your own business if you buy one. Just a very low profit, if any, generating company unless you do all work yourself. I guess that’s owner/operated part. You can only do so much yourself though. Even with the best master on the planet I still feel Jan Pro is a poor investment. To me, its a low paying job. Jan Pro controls you..every single, tiny step of the way. If you are very serious about the cleaning business and have no experience, and no other options. Get a pt job with a local cleaning service for a couple months and learn what’s going on. For sales join a chamber of commerce, a business club, or take the money you would have invested w a franchise and take some college classes or hire a sales coach. Then bust your ass..have passion, patience, and persistence. Keep plugging away. It may not work but everyone is not ment to succeed in business. That’s capitalism. Find a niche. For instance my company cleans only Medical Facilities and School. Where attention to detail is a must. This requires a lot of supervision. This is in no way an attack against Jerrys opinions. I just believe if you want to ever own a highly profitable, successful business and the ‘freedom’ to go w it a franchis is not the way to go. However, let me tell you this ‘freedom’ most likely will never exsist in your own company for a long time. YOU and YOU only are ultimately responsible for everything. That’s why most people are employed and not employers.

• lol….Jerry – due to the amount of time and effort you put into this blog I have decided you are a complete tool. Get a life. It looks as if about 7 people read your musings. On a positive note – the NL will have home field advantage for the first time, in a long time, in the World Series!

• Pete: Your limited and definitely “enlighted opinions” are exactly the things that I would look for in a future owner/operator. Since 1st amendment is so convinced that I am a Master Owner, which state are you from, I could “hook you up”.

  You did manage to manage to “squirt out” three or four lines after being absent for 5 or 6 hours. Maybe you should learn to “cut and paste” more like 1st amendment.

  I used to get onto him about “original thought”, then I started reading his “original thoughts” and begged him to go back to “cut and paste”. Your right on the edge.

  Does it really matter about the National League, aren’t they simply going to lose to the Yankee’s, Boston or the Rays again.

• Joe A: Yes, you are a reasonable person, I have stated that before. No, the owner/operator system isn’t for everyone, never designed that way. In all honesty, you give nearly a perfect description of what a “perfect” owner/operator and what really should be discussed by “masters” all across this country. However, I do believe that a “larger” owner/operator is certainly possible, but it takes that relationship building that I described in earlier posts, it takes the “mix” of business, it takes an owner/operator to develop his/her skills with proper guidance and it takes them getting accounts on their own.

  Funny, 1st amendment, guest and others that have posted “negative comments” don’t have an inkling about this business, what it takes to own one, run one, manage one, build one, yet they supposidly know more than you and I.

  I find your postings to be “honest” and “full of insight” and truly refreshing. Reasonable people can disagree, can have reasonalbe thoughts and still at the end of the day come to a “resolution”

  Unfortunately, 1st amendment and “guest” only want to “destroy” , “damage”, attack personality creidibility, accuse people of “corrupt” doings etc…. That’s why I stay on this site PETE, is because if I didn’t, the people mentioned above would have people all across this country thinking the Executives, Masters, Employees of the Corporations, Employees of the Masters believing they were ALL dishonest, morally corrupt individuals. Do they have thier FAULTS, without a doubt, HAVE THEY HANDLED THINGS WRONG, no question. CAN THINGS AND SHOULD THINGS BE DONE BETTER, 100% they should and they can.

  Pete, if you want to make comments, they are of course welcomed, but at least put some effort behind them and some thought. Maybe you need to have more “Passion” in your life and then something like this, would be of more importance to you then a baseball game. People’s livlihoods are at stake, both on the owner/operator side and the Corporation side of this. Do you need me to remind you that over thirty (30) thousand owner/operators currently in the “big 3” systems completed their tasks last night all across this GREAT COUNTRY! What about them, what about their investment, what about their dreams, their goals, their wants/needs/desires to get the most out of their business.

  If I allowed 1st amendment and “guest” with their one sided, opinionated comments, full of inuendo’s and lacking of fact go completely unchecked, what would happen to the people mentioned above?

  Get a life, I’ve been in this industry for over 25 years, made more money than most, bought and sold more things then most, have plenty of money and opportunity for my family and Yet, I still feel for those that have less, that need direction, that have a “business” but need and want to make it better.

  What’s your “value”? “Well at least the National League will have the World Series homefield advantage this Year?” Wow!!! with the thought process it took to produce that, I’m sure WE ALL feel better for knowing you.

• 1st amendment: Don’t listen to me, I fully agree. Don’t listen to you and “guest” without a doubt no one should be listening to you!

  You didn’t dispute what I said about Coverall and “aiwah”. Guess it must be completely true, see I don’t have “skin” in this game, just listening to others off this site and making a few well placed phone calls. 200K sounds about right then for what Coverall’s attorneys are seeking in damages.

  As you know, there are amendments going through both houses in the MA government to “fix” the issue with their “independent contractor law”. Once fixed, there will be no misunderstanding or misclassification issue just like there was none when it actually got in front of a jury of “peers”. Common Sense rained supreme as it should have.

  in regards to the “lawsuit” in Rhode Island, could you be talking about the one that took place nearly 15 YEARS ago? Come on, we’ve talked about this, let’s at least try to get things in the past decade, this century at least!!!

  Again, with the “half truth’s” and the “easily forgettable” non-issues. If you are hanging your hat on things that may/probably won’t happen across this country because of what goes on in MA, I wouldn’t go to VEGAS and bet the farm.

• Jerry says “Unfortunately, 1st amendment and “guest” only want to “destroy” , “damage”, attack personality creidibility, accuse people of “corrupt” doings etc…. That’s why I stay on this site PETE, is because if I didn’t, the people mentioned above would have people all across this country thinking the Executives, Masters, Employees of the Corporations, Employees of the Masters believing they were ALL dishonest, morally corrupt individuals…. People’s livlihoods are at stake, both on the owner/operator side and the Corporation side of this. ”

  Jerry, you are a true patriot. Champion of the underdog. Defender of the little man. The Nightman… Defender of the Dayman. A superhero able to overwhelm intelligent conversations at 100 words per minute.

  Don’t let the fact that I never once said that all masters, employees, etc. etc. are dishonest, corrupt individuals (feel free to quote where I said that) impede your word-flow. You have stated that you are the “FoxNews” of the blogosphere so don’t let facts get in the way of your “dill-usions of greatness”

  Jerry writes: “Don’t listen to me.”

  Now THAT’S some good advice, Jerr-Bear!

• Guest: Glad you appreciate the facts that I have displayed on a consistent basis. You of course, left out the fact that I stated “don’t listen to you and 1st amendment as well” make up your own mind, do your due dilligence, call, read, ask questions and then make an informed decision.

  Now, if you’re done blowing “smoke”, “skewing facts” and Mis-representing judges decisions and Mis-quoting me, I’ll move on to other issues. Please read the next “posting” in regards to Felix.

• Felix: I have a perfect opportunity for you to “Shut me up forever”!!! How does that “grab you”?

  You state “it’s the worst investment ever and that I’ve been an owner/operator for 4 years”. Please correct me if I mis-read, I am still “blinded by the light of brillance shared by Pete with all of us earlier, it is possible I mis-read.

  I’m going to keep this simple so “guest”, “pete” and “1st amendment” can follow since it is obvious none of them have any “business sense”.

  Let’s say four years ago you invested 1K wih Jan-Pro, put the same 1K in the stock market and 1K in a bank/cd.

  For you 1K investment in Jan-Pro at a minimum you would get approx. $425.00 per month in “gross billing account”.

  Now let’s back out 20%, your notes, your chemicals and equipment costs, gas cost going to the job etc…

  Bet at the end of the month, you would have a “gross profit” of 200.00

  Take that 200.00 x 48 month’s (4 years x 12 month’s in a year)

  You’d have an ROI of 9600.00 for investment of 1000.00

  Now, in the stock market from 4 years ago, you would have lost 20% of your investment (average) so that would leave you 800.00 of your original 1000.00

  In a bank/cd you would have made a whopping 3% per year or a total of 120.00 over 4 years for your same 1000.00 investment.

  Obviously, where I come from, the backward thinking, Nascare lovin, Sweet Tea drinking, corn bread making, turnip green eating, white gravey loving SOUTH, that ‘s a pretty good deal.

  Love it when they throw “investment” in my face of reason!!!!!!!! HOLLER if you love making money!!!!

• Thanks to Jerry “The Honest Broker” for that illegal earnings claim.

  What do ya’ll think? Is the “Honest Broker” ignorant of franchise law and unaware that all Financial Performance numbers can only be provided via Item 19 in the Franchise Disclosure Document? Or does Jerry “The Honest Broker” know that but prefers to disregard pre-sale disclosure laws in order to promote this bogus franchise with bogus numbers.

  You don’t need to have Jerry’s prodigious (look it up, Jerr-bear) business acuman (that too) to realize that he left out two little points: 1) the actual labor and opportunity costs associated with the franchise and cleaning jobs (for which there are 0 hours with the bank or stock) and, more importantly, 2) The fact that the hypothetical job will only last 3 months, not 48, since that’s when the Master will inform the franchisee that he has given the account to a new sucker, er, franchisee because then he’ll have made $2000 reselling the same job.

  Jerry, thanks again for proving that “Honest Broker” is indeed an oxymoron (look it up, Jerr-bear)!

• Guest: I simply used Felix’s own statements. So what you’re “spewing” today is the fact that ALL owner/operators only have accounts for three month’s.

  Then why in the HELL, would they guarantee business for a YEAR, provided owner/operator does everything they are supposed to?

  Why in the HELL would Felix continue to do accounts for 4 Years when he only had them for 3 month’s.

  Why in the HELL doesn’t Felix sue the crap out of Jan-Pro. I would that is just per BS, I wouldn’t clean any account if I hadn’t been paid for 45 month’s. What the HELL!!!!!!

  Owner/operator usually means what it says for at least a few month’s. Or is that all non-sense as well? And you tell me that I’m riding the short bus all the time.

• I am posting my free advise here too:
  Here is what I would say to people looking into buying a franchise.
  1. Read the FTC warnings on Janitorial Franchising
  2. Contact the Building Service Contractors Association International (BSCAI)and educate yourself about the industry. Ask member companies how they started, built their businesses, and then ask about whatever franchise system you are looking into. This information is free.
  3. Attend a local BOMA (Building Owners and Managers) or IFMA (A professional association for facility management) meeting as a guest and ask property owners about the franchise company you are thinking about buying in to. You will get a perspective from your potential customers. Because the goal is to build a business….right? Again, totally free.
  4. Contact the largest local supply company. Here the biggest is Waxie Sanitary Supply. Ask to speak to a rep and get their opinion of your possible business partner. Free.
  5. VERY IMPORTANT: Don’t sign on the dotted line until you have an attorney evaluate the contract. There are pre-paid legal plans that are very affordable. Don’t let attorney costs be a factor. The janitorial franchise industry will spend to the death to protect their system, as can be seen right now! Do your due-diligence first. Ask the attorney to concentrate on a few issues…account ownership and the “outs” they have to “fire” you & how much control they have over your operations & how will you pay for the franchise. They may offer to finance this for you. Ouch. Keep in mind you bought your OWN business. Their job is to support, not run your operation.
  6. Ask to see the list of all their franchisees’, current and former. This is your right. Ask to meet with a couple, that you choose, and on your own. You need honest answers. This is a huge decision. Should be no problem if these companies are run as stated.
  7. What account are they trying to sell you? Try and see it first. With simple bidding techniques from BSCAI you can evaluate the account on your own. Do the numbers work in your own mind?
  8. Will you have to hire employees? Who is responsible for payroll taxes, work comp, etc. These are large costs that must be considered. Do the numbers still make sense?
  9. If you do make the leap….get to know your new customer. This is your livelihood. Let them know you OWN this account through the franchise agreement. Work hard, be honest, and give great customer service and that account will be yours forever. If you build a relationship with this customer you will never have to worry about getting the account pulled out from under you.

  There are probably 20 more suggestions I am not thinking of. Feel free to chime in Jerry. As everything I have suggested is good sound advice…agreed?

  But here is a better idea.
  1. Go work for a janitorial company. See if you even like the work first. Figure out the business from the inside. The majority of our employees work part time, in the evening, supplementing another income. You can too to start out.
  2. Contact your local SBA about how to open your own business. They have free training on anything a franchise would teach you business wise. Here it is done at the local community college.
  3. Join BSCAI, BOMA, and IFMA – big company execs love to give free information to “little” guys. Info given by someone not trying to sell you something I will point out.
  4. Get an account
  5. Start off NOT $1000’s in the hole.
  6. Prosper

• Pete: As stated on the other “post” have very few exceptions to what you’re saying, already said all of those things prior in regards to “due dilligence”.

  Have a great day, but remember what I said about ABM, They are the biggest “whore” in the commercial cleaning industry in regards to pricing and national accounts.

• And Jerry I took your comment above to heart. You are correct. I too feel for the little person. It is just my, very industry minded , opinion that this business model does not in any way look out for these little guys.

• Pete:

  Great advice, well stated. People who buy a franchise in an industry they don’t understand are at the mercy of the franchisor. In this case, it makes sense to get enough experience that you can make a go of it with a business you truly own – for real. Many janitorial franchisees would have been ahead of the game had they worked for minimum wage – it’s better than LOSING both your investment and your time to the sellers of false dreams.

  Thanks for a brief break from the ramblings of Jerry, who wants to remind everyone ad nauseum that he’s a “Nascar lovin, White Gravy eatin, cousin-marrying, corn bread making, sheep chasing, chicken fried steak eatin, illegal immigrant hatin, stump jumpin, book burnin, plastic flag wavin, cross burnin’ , English language-butcherin Southern Gentleman that LOVES this COUNTRY & its brave VETERANS more than YOU ever will as evidenced by his USE OF ALL CAPS and cuz he sez so!!!”