JANITORIAL FRANCHISE GUIDE

80 thoughts on “JANITORIAL FRANCHISE GUIDE”

• Pingback: Commercial Cleaning Franchise Complaints : Unhappy Franchisee

• I’m glad I read all this information. My hubby has been hyped and bragging and talking about this Jani-King thing for a month. Him and his friend having been “doing the blue prints” of their new business. He showed me this 10 page print out of Jani King. I love him dearly but he’s the kind of guy that once you tell him something that sounds a little good he’s the “SOUNDS GOOD; LET’S DO IT!” guy. Me? I’m the “WHAT’S THE CATCH?” kinda gal. Soooo, when he showed me this 10 page trash heap, I dug up my own dirt. HE WILL NOT, and I shall repeat NOT going to invest in the garbage.
  Thanks for the heads up everybody!!!

• I am more familiar with Jan-Pro as they hammered our local area a few years back. But recently heard the same stuff from a former Octoclean franchisee. BOUGHT a job, hired a few people, paid cash as she didn’t make enough to actually pay work comp and payroll taxes. Right after she paid off all her franshise fees (which she financed) the Octoclean “family”, as she called them (a father, son and daughter), pulled the plug and took the account. They said the customer was not happy. Wasn’t this account purchased and thus her’s to run as her own business? It’s such a scam….all of them. She tried to get the business back as the customer WAS happy (she says) and was contacted by an attorney.

• Here’s a post we published on OctoClean. Sounds familiar:

  OCTOCLEAN Janitorial Services Franchise

• Pete: Amazing how you know so much about something you obviously don’t have a clue about. Maybe before “jumping” into the middle of something, you might want to have a “clue” about the topic at hand.

  Amazing you “don’t know that much about Octoclean” but you still knew about this “lady”. REALLY. Could you provide more detail, even 1st amendment at least gives a description of “his people”. Of course they are all

  a) illegal aliens
  b) Veterans
  c) Momma’s ( no daughters, aunts, children)
  d) Women who had bounced checks

  You get the “gist” right, a little more information would be good.

• To Jerry from Indiana who owns a master franchise with jan-pro.

  You are still mad that jan-pro was exposed on Television on chanel 52 on a program called ” Al Rojo Vivo ” with reporter Maria Celeste.

  Here is the link

  http://msnlatino.telemundo.com/shows/Al_Rojo_Vivo/video_player?uuid=7d4cfdb4-97e0-4799-9b76-6a38d058e95f

  You can also read jerry’s post on the janiking section complaints Dated July 10th at 1:52 pm. You can read all about his Racist Comments !

  I have talked to veterans who have been ripped-off by cleaning franchisors. One of them told me that he is getting an attorney and starting his own class action.

  There is also many single Moms that have been ripped-off. Here is a link to an article that recently came out.

  http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/27/your-money/27haggler.html?_r=1

  Recently a few ladies were given BAD CHECKS from jan-pro. When these checks bounced they went to jan-pros offices to see what had hapened. Then jan-pro got mad and Kicked them out of the office.

  The Federal Trade commision and the Attorney General warn people about these cleaning franchisors

• Jerry – Again you’re a complete tool. Get a life weirdo. The individual (which I obviously made up to prove a point), contacted her former purchased account (which doesn’t exist), This fake account had fired Octoclean due to the fact the attorney contacted them too (i guess in my fictious story the customer liked the franchisee but not how she was treated), the fake account fell into my companies lap. The fictious disgruntled former fired franchisee found out who got the work. And since the fake account liked the fictious franchisee we hurriedly hired her. She IS a great employee. But i made it all up so no need to follow up with your stalker-like responses.

• And thats what i know about the former Octoclean San Diego operation. They are not here anymore. So, I do admit, it’s only one person’s opinion. (Opps fake opinion.) I am sure you know more about it than anyone else so I’ll keep my thoughts to myself.

• Pete: Good for you to admit that many of your stories are like those of 1st amendments and “guest”. Fake and wanting to “snow ball” on those types of comments made by others.

  I applaud you for your honesty. No, your opinions are certainly welcomed here, I’m sure we all feel GREAT about your recent posting of FACT in regards to the National League winning last nights game. That really helped the thirty (30) thousand plus owner/operators that performed their services for their customers all across this GREAT COUNTRY last night. I’m sure that they feel secure in you “enlightened” comments.

  San Diego is certainly a great bastion of this country, has any sports team been relevant from San Diego in this past century? That’s a question I personally feel you would have “valued input” on. Maybe you should find a “sports posting” site.

  You have no clue about what’s going on, what type of people invest in commercial cleaning franchise business, how owner/operators do/handle their business, what goes on day to day, week to week, the amount of training, amount of effort put into those owner/operators by the vast majority of “masters”, what good things “corporate” have done, etc…..

  Maybe you should sit on the sidelines a little longer, “guest” and 1st amendment are followers of the “disgruntled” the “SEIU supporters” the “illegal alien lovers” club.

• Jerry – I’m sorry you’re not a tool. You are, however, a self-indulged, passive-aggressive, narcissist. I was following the lawsuits for one reason. We are waiting for case law to help our new employee get her money back from Octoclean. She was fired for no reason. You can correct me….she had her franchise pulled, per her contract, I suppose. I am helping one person. You can keep helping the 30,000 you pontificate about. And frankly, I am giving free advice due to you pissing me off.

  I’ve been in the game for 20+ years. Left the monster ABM to start on my own years ago. The big franchisors and the little ones like Octoclean really are running a bit scared. They don’t have a LOT to lose, they have EVERYTHING to lose, based on the results of these class actions. You/they/whoever HAVE to protect this business model regardless of what I or any former franchisee may think.

  In San Diego, experienced facility managers don’t turn to these types of companies. Seriously. Here is what I would say to people looking into buying a franchise.
  1. Read the FTC warnings on Janitorial Franchising
  2. Contact the Building Service Contractors Association International (BSCAI)and educate yourself about the industry. Ask member companies how they started, built their businesses, and then ask about whatever franchise system you are looking into. This information is free.
  3. Attend a local BOMA (Building Owners and Managers) or IFMA (A professional association for facility management) meeting as a guest and ask property owners about the franchise company you are thinking about buying in to. You will get a perspective from your potential customers. Because the goal is to build a business….right? Again, totally free.
  4. Contact the largest local supply company. Here the biggest is Waxie Sanitary Supply. Ask to speak to a rep and get their opinion of your possible business partner. Free.
  5. VERY IMPORTANT: Don’t sign on the dotted line until you have an attorney evaluate the contract. There are pre-paid legal plans that are very affordable. Don’t let attorney costs be a factor. The janitorial franchise industry will spend to the death to protect their system, as can be seen right now! Do your due-diligence first. Ask the attorney to concentrate on a few issues…account ownership and the “outs” they have to “fire” you & how much control they have over your operations & how will you pay for the franchise. They may offer to finance this for you. Ouch. Keep in mind you bought your OWN business. Their job is to support, not run your operation.
  6. Ask to see the list of all their franchisees’, current and former. This is your right. Ask to meet with a couple, that you choose, and on your own. You need honest answers. This is a huge decision. Should be no problem if these companies are run as stated.
  7. What account are they trying to sell you? Try and see it first. With simple bidding techniques from BSCAI you can evaluate the account on your own. Do the numbers work in your own mind?
  8. Will you have to hire employees? Who is responsible for payroll taxes, work comp, etc. These are large costs that must be considered. Do the numbers still make sense?
  9. If you do make the leap….get to know your new customer. This is your livelihood. Let them know you OWN this account through the franchise agreement. Work hard, be honest, and give great customer service and that account will be yours forever. If you build a relationship with this customer you will never have to worry about getting the account pulled out from under you.

  There are probably 20 more suggestions I am not thinking of. Feel free to chime in Jerry. As everything I have suggested is good sound advice…agreed?

  But here is a better idea.
  1. Go work for a janitorial company. See if you even like the work first. Figure out the business from the inside. The majority of our employees work part time, in the evening, supplementing another income. You can too to start out.
  2. Contact your local SBA about how to open your own business. They have free training on anything a franchise would teach you business wise. Here it is done at the local community college.
  3. Join BSCAI, BOMA, and IFMA – big company execs love to give free information to “little” guys. Info given by someone not trying to sell you something I will point out.
  4. Get an account
  5. Start off NOT $1000’s in the hole.
  6. Prosper

• And Please, Jerry….are you serious?!
  Poll:
  Even with our mediocre sports. Pick where you would choose to live.

  A. San Diego
  B. Wherever it is that Jerry lives

  Where is Franchisylvania?

• Pete: Your not quite as far off as “guest” and “1st amendment’ If you had bothered to read my statements over the past month plus, they almost mirror yours in regards to “due dilligence”. I have been stating that all along.

  Also, I would and have suggested on numerous ocassions that they go to BSCAI website and gather information. For your information (since you already know this)

  Current BSCAI members that are in the “owner/operator” business either primary or as “additional”.

  Office Pride
  ServiceMaster
  OpenWorks
  Mallard Services
  Bonus
  Jani-King
  Jan-Pro
  and several others.

  I’m glad to see that you are “coming around” even just a little to “my side” of things. Also, I was going to “note” that BOMA is very much a waste of time and money unless you are a “whore” such as ABM. Or unless you happen to be a minority owned/certified company.

  See Pete, I can agree with you, when you agree with me. However, where you are “wrong” at and about.

  Franchising in the Commercial Cleaning business has been done for over 50 Years, most only think about Jani-king, but the reality of it is, ServiceMaster was really the first true fanchise opportunity in our industry. It will be here for 50 more regardless of SEIU, Attorneys and of course the Democratic Party and OBAMA.

  In regards to your supposed “friend”, she doesn’t have a chance of winning any lawsuit, guarantee is only in force for a period of one year, per your own statement earlier I would venture to say she had it for longer than one year. I will be the first one to admit that I don’t know much about OctoClean. But if that’s how they handle their business, it’s no wonder they aren’t a national company.

• Not supposed “friend”….current employee. I guess that last paragraph sums up our disagreement. What these companies sell is a business, a dream, a better future. By your own admission, it’s really is just a temporary “job” guaranteed for just one year….how sad. I think removing owner from operator is in order.

  And this is California, you’d be suprised of a persons chance at winning, or at least settling, a case like this should should case law back up filing a suit. The defense costs alone would dictate a settlement based on the numbers. Juries in CA play favor to the little guy in cases such as this. Scary for any employer….but true.

  But in our sales endeavours….we have no problem addressing the lawsuits, business practices, etc of franchise companies. Simply asking them to google janitorial franchise scam usually does the trick. Beyond that we tell them to make sure they meet the actual “business” owner who is buying the account. Sorry if that makes you mad. But business is business and I really wish we could go head to head with the jan-Pros of the world on every bid. Easy pickings.

• Pete: Not a problem, I believe you, just used the “supposed” because I have a hard time believing 1st amendment and his “exaggerations”. No offense meant by any means.

  Yes, California and MA are both “scary”. That’s the only reason most of this has any legs.

  Yeah, I wouldn’t mind selling against you either. I have the utmost respect for people that have worked in this business for a long time, regardless of what “side” they are on. I have personally worked and owned my own “traditional company” 23 out of the nearly 26 years I’ve been in the business. Only been on the “owner/operator” mode for the last two plus years.

  I have my own “sales pitch” both about traditional companies and about what is on the “internet” in regards to owner/operator models.

  Wish you the best, hope our “swords” cross again on an issue we are more in “disagreement” with certain aspects than we are. I have personally stated numerous items (really to many, if you’d like to go back and read through, not the verbal “rants’ going back and forth with “guest” and 1st amendment) that I would very much like to have reforms put into place. More security for the good owner/operators, more penalties for the “bad apples”, more direct control and quality control between the corporate side and “master” side. etc…..

  No “side” is a perfect operating model, that’s why there’s plenty of blame and plenty of opportunity to go around.

• The coverall case in Massachusetts was a Test case. only 3 plaintiffs were used. The Judge already Ruled that all of the Coverall people are infact employees. This is according to the LAW. This is the LAW. A 3 Pong test was used to determine if the cleaners were employees and according to the LAW and the 3 Pong test they are employees. On a later date they will be going back to court to access all of the Damages. This same Judge compared the way coverall was doing business as a Modified Ponsi Scheme!
  Coverall recently started making there cleaners use time cards.
  The Judge also stated that he may certify the case as a national class action challenging Coverall’s Unfair and Deceptive business practices Nationwide.

  Also Rhina alveranga who bought a fake cleaning franchise with coverall was able to prove that she was an employee and not a franchisee. She recouped her loses, investment and also received unemployment benefits.

  In the Jani-King case, they have obtained class certification on the claim that franchisees who have worked in Massachusetts were misclassified as independent contractors.

  In the jan-pro case we are awaiting for the Judges decision for cross parties summary Judgment and for Class certification.
  Jan-pro Lost a lawsuit in Rhode Island. I also know of many other Lawsuits that they have settled out of court.

  If you look at the Climaco Guzman V. jan-pro case you will see that jan-pro LIES. They never gave him any accounts so Climaco Guzman had to take legal action. The Judge found jan-pro Guilty!

  The Judge said that jan-pros promises were FALSE and MISSLEADING! The Judge also said that jan-pro had BREACHED the contract and committed FRAUD !

• 1st amendment; Now HOLD ON! I mean weren’t you just on board with Coverall, stating the judge called it a modified Ponzi Scheme and that they were right and I was wrong and that you are the “lead plantiff in the continuing saga, I mean case against Jan-Pro International”. Now its just “a test case”.

  Well damn, I sure “aiwah” and his merry band of “disgruntled owner/operators” are happy with that demotion on their way to the SEIU to have their 200K judgement paid for by them. Hopefully, Liz let them down easy.

  The case you continue to “complain” about was over 15 years ago. I thought we agreed that you were going to use cases from this century?

  Now, did you call “guest” and did he finally explain to you in no uncertain terms the need for you to have a brokers license was just a big FUNNY that I pulled on you?

  Do illegal aliens file taxes? We know you don’t because you couldn’t understand the FDD because it’s worse than the U.S. Tax Code.

  HOLLER!!!! If you LOVE making money, having NASCAR on Sunday’s, eating corn bread, drinking BUD, and chewing on some country fried steak!!!!!!!

• Jerry I have to agree with 1st Amendment – As far as I can tell from what I have read, independent of this site, is that the Mass. victory wasn’t really a victory at all when all the legelese are taken into account. Sure wish I was collecting all the legal fees though! Isn’t Jan-Pro turning all there Mass. franchisees into co. employees?

• Pete: No, Jan-Pro, Jani-King nor any other owner/operator company doing business in MA are utilizing the non-sense that Coverall is. Be careful about agreeing too much with 1st amendment. MA victory by Coverall especially the part about the independent contractor issue award was very much a victory in whole. Judgement against “aiwah” was most difinitely a victory and states loud and clear there is a cost for attempting to “black mail” a company.

  Coverall’s prior lead attorney, really messed up on the 1st part of the case, that’s why they were replaced on the 2nd part. 1st part is still on appeal, the MA legislation forthcoming should clean up the “independent contractor” issue once and for all.

  In regards to Coverall, remember, part of their problem in MA is all of Boston has been “employee”or “traditional based” vs. pure owner/operator model. That’s why Coverall was “chosen” first by our friend “liz” to proceed with intially vs. Jan-Pro.

  Yes, the case has actually been “on-going” for nearly 5 plus years, that’s why the “judgment” was so high. For that aspect only, I really do feel for “aiwah” I think in many ways, they were sold a “pie in the sky” and weren’t given the “bad stuff” that could happen. But no worries there, “guest” and his merry band of SEIU loving bunch of attorneys will write a check!

• It looks like more Fake cleaning franchisors keep ripping of people.

  They don’t just do it here in the United States they also rip-off people in Canada.

  I have also received calls from people in Canada that were ripped-off by jan-pro.

  Don’t be surprised if you start to see class actions in Canada.

  Please see the following link. This gentleman talks about how a cleaning franchisor ripped his family off.

  http://www.thestar.com/videozone/238248–countrywide-victim-arteaga

• To jerry the Franchisor for jan-pro.

  I will keep repeating it. The case in Massachusetts is still on going however the plaintiffs already proved that they were employees. They used the LAW to prove this. They used a 3 Prong Test which is what the LAW requires them to use. This was proven and they will be going back to court to recoup there losses.

  http://www.thestar.com/videozone/238248–countrywide-victim-arteaga

• To jerry a master franchisor with jan-pro

  You are trully one sick person

  You look at people and if you don’t like the way they look you call them illegal aliens. The ladies who came out on those video are not illegal aliens they are American citizens and some of them have kids in the Millitary. For you to call people illegal aliens just because they look diferent than you is wrong.

  How can you defend what you Posted on July 10th 2010 at 1:52 pm
  The following is what jerry from indiana posted on July 10th 2010 at 1:52 pl in the janiking section of complaints

  “““ You shuold be awake by now. Even in California it’s at least “taco time” isn’t it?

  As my “master” took his yaht out today, I was forced to go into the basement and feed/water all of the illegal aliens we are “training” to become the next batch of owner/operators

  Now to show that I’m not as mean the “master”, one of our illegal aliens gave birth last night despite our best efforts to have her wait at least ten (10) days, she gave birth to a beautiful baby girl. To show that I’m not without feeling, I immediately explained to the illegal alien, that “wet foot, dry foot” didn’t apply to her as she was coming into the world. I then took the mother, sold her a starter kit at 5X the cost of the products and equipment given to her, forced her to take a tremedously underbid account, called the customer and told them I was putting an illegal alien into their facility,

  What you ask about the baby? Well the “master” and I have decided to “sell” the baby to the highest bidder and pocket the money. We wil make a large donation/gift in the baby’s name to the owners of Franchise Times, Frannet, Vetnet and any other “net” willing to name us in the top “5″ of their franchise list. ”””

• 1st amendment: Spin the MA decsion any way you want. But at the end of the day, it was a devestating loss for “aiwah” it was a devestating loss for your “legal team”, it was a devestating loss for you and your case.

  Now, what’s going to happen between now and “whenever”, MA legislation currently working it’s way through both houses, will “clean up” the language in regards to the independent contractor issue. Once that language is finalized, my “gut” (which is quite large) tells me that the independent contractor issue that they admittedly used in their “re-file” or legal term “amended case” will simply disappear.

  Now, they will be forced to solely rely on the “Breach of Contract” aspect which I have said all along, that is the only part that REASONABLE people can agree happened in some of these plantiff’s lives. However, the contract that you signed 1st amendment as well as any owner/operator was between you and the “master” of that area. Therefore, no class action will be viable.

  Does that mean you lose everything, of course not, nor should you. It just means it goes back to the case by case, local level (possibly state) and it’s dealt with quickly and finally.

  I have personally stated before, I feel for anyone that even FEELS like they were SCREWED by Jan-Pro or any of the others. That’s not a way to run a business, but at the end of the day, nearly every company that has employees, contractors, owner/operators has someone that FEELS that way.

  Of course, you can’t hold your tongue, can’t stay away from attacking my personal character, even though I changed my TONE in regards to you. It just shows the LACK of integrity that you obviously have. I’ve said it before, maybe one day you’ll listen, you are a detriment to your case, you do more Harm than Good, you are a terrible Representative for the FACE of your CASE.

  By the way, I hope you’ll still lose!

• To jerry a master franchisor with jan-pro

  I guees that the truth is coming out, all you do is look at people and you label them. That is wrong. If you see that someone looks different from you, you attack them. For your information this country is made up of people from all over the world. We are here talking about how jan-pro has been ripping of people and what do you do when you are loosing your argument. You let out your deragatory and racist views.

  Two years ago if you saw one of the supreme court justices walking down the street would you also call her deragatory names? Would you also call her an illegal alien just because she looks latina?

  You know that what you said is wrong. For you to be labeling everyone that works for jan-pro as an illegal alien is very WROING!

  For your information 30% of the people that have called me are white, 30% Black, 30% latino, 5% Asian and 5% european.

  I guess if you can’t win an argument you turn to deragatory remarks and you label everyone that bought a fake franchise with jan-pro illegal. You can try and explain your comments to the Supreme Court.

• Please see the following video its about a Gentleman by the name of Douglass Adams who talks about how he got ripped-off by a cleaning franchisor.

  http://www.thestar.com/videozone/238246–countrywide-victim-adams

• 1st amendment: Isn’t there something illegal about racial profiling? Aren’t you doing something worse right now than what Jan Brewer is being accused of in Arizona. I mean REALLY, Not only do you have the % of what ethnic group they belong too, but I bet at least 90% are all Veterans or Mothers of Veterans.

  Why did you leave that stat out?

  Did “guest” call you about having you replaced? Is that why you are triple posting and have nothing better to do than to attack me for my Parody that everyone but you and Roberto thought was funny.

• Guest: Did you ever wonder why Progressives believe the world would be a better place if Dictators ran it? I’m actually shocked that you are a firm Progressive in all honesty, I find you amusing, I find you funny, I find you and your Elitest ways interesting.

  Have you told 1st amendment yet that if you didn’t know him for this “case” that you wouldn’t even give him the time of day unless he was washing your BMW.

  I’m just asking.

• Corporate shills like Jerry work tirelessly to obscure and distract. I have no idea what he’s even talking about (progressives, liberals, illegals, blah blah) and neither does he. It’s like white noise to bury the truth under a ton of words.

  Here’s the truth.

  Commercial cleaning franchises like Jan-Pro spend millions of dollars advertising with Entrepreneur magazine. In exchange (IMHO), Entrepreneur gives them these meaningless rankings that they can use to peddle their bogus opportunities on the unsuspecting. More than half of their “top 10 low cost franchises” are commercial cleaning franchises. Every one of these franchisors tout their rankings like they are an indication that they are endorsed as a good investment.

  # 2 Jani-King
  # 3 Jan-Pro Franchising Int’l. Inc.
  # 5 Stratus Building Solutions
  # 8 Vanguard Cleaning Systems
  # 9 ServiceMaster Clean
  # 10 Bonus Building Care
  # 12 Anago Cleaning Systems
  # 14 System4
  # 21 CleanNet USA Inc.
  # 30 OpenWorks
  # 36 BuildingStars Inc.
  # 48 OctoClean Franchising Systems
  # 53 Mint Condition Franchising Inc.
  # 68 Office Pride Commercial Cleaning
  # 75 MTOclean Inc.

  Here’s the truth: the rankings have little-to-nothing to do with the viability of the franchise investment. According to Entrepreneur “We do not measure subjective elements such as franchisee satisfaction or management style”

  How can they evaluate a franchise opportunity without considering whether franchisees are screaming bloody murder or not?
  Or the profitability of franchisees?
  Or if the management is unethical or dishonest?
  Or if the FTC has singled out this segment for scam warnings?
  Or that there are widespread lawsuits and allegations of deception?

  They claim they consider litigation and terminations in their “super secret ranking formula” but if those factors were given any weight janitorial franchises certainly would not top the list.

  According to Entrepreneur, “The most important factors include financial strength and stability, growth rate and size of the system.”

  So in essence there’s a multimillion dollar disinformation campaign wherein business publications pretend that the fact that the franchisors making money is the same as the franchisees making money. Only the lawsuits and sites like this one provide an opportunity to expose this blatant scam on the American working men and women in pursuit of their American dreams.

  Of course they need to be able to make their own informed decisions, but to do that they need to be provided with true information, not multimillion dollar campaigns designed to obscure the truth and hide reality.

• Guest: And you say I give “white noise” on a regular basis. It’s amazing how “slanted” you are. But let’s actually go over some basic facts, you know what those are, “things without dispute”

  1. Fact, over thirty thousand owner/operators are currently cleaning facilites throughout the U.S. on a nightly/regular basis for the “big 3”

  2. Fact, if you add up all of the plantiffs, in all the current lawsuits, Hell, lets put in ALL the lawsuits for the past 10 years combined, there would be less than 1% of all owner/operators have pursued legal action against the “big 3”.

  3. Fact, Most of the owner/operators currently cleaning facilities for the “big 3” have been owner operators for more than 3 Years.

  4. Fact, Nearly 80% of them have referred family members, friends, business associates to the “industry”, whether that be for that particular company or another like/same.

  5. Fact, the reason these companies continually out perform “traditional companies” in retention factor for customers is directly attributed to the quality of the work, quality of the relationship, quality of the owner/operator model year in and year out.

  6. Fact, the reason that “guest” is on this site is directly due to filling his pockets either as an attorney or SEIU steward whose sole objective is attempting to “unionize” the commercial cleaning industry as a whole. Don’t let his “attacks” on anything or anyone “blind” you to that fact. He’s in it for the MONEY!!!!!!!!

  Did you miss me!

• Jerry:

  1. FACT: Just putting the word “Fact” in front of made-up statistics doesn’t make them facts. Please cite REAL factual sources for each of your bogus statistics or keep them to yourself.

  2. FACT: I’m really sick of scam artists pushing bogus franchises with little tricks like made-up statistics. Get off your butt and at least get some real stats from actual studies/research to scam people with. It’s not thirty (30) thousand cuz you say it is.

  3. FACT: No I did not miss you. Kidding aside, I have a real and abiding contempt for phonies, and you’re a master phony on many levels: phony patriotism, phony reverence for vets, phony outrage used to vent racist, anti-Hispanic views, use of phony statistics and arguments to sell a phony business opportunity to real people.

  I don’t know whether you actually get paid to spew this propaganda (like some suggest) or whether you are just trying too hard to justify your involvement in one of the lowest and most reviled scam industries this side of Sneaky Pete’s used-car lot, but it’s not working. You’re involved in a low-down sleazy janitorial scam and everyone here knows it.

• Lest anyone believe Jerry’s bogus statistics, see how janitorial franchisors continually inflate their numbers. This is from Julie Bennett of Franchise Times:

  “All three top cleaning franchises claim to have thousands of unit franchisees. Jani-King and Jan-Pro, in fact, trade titles as the country’s fastest-growing franchise. But when Franchise Times made random phone calls to “active franchisees” listed in FDDs from all three systems, we found only a handful of people who said they were still happily working the franchise.

  “Since they operate through regional master franchisors, Coverall, Jani-King and Jan-Pro do not file FDDs that list all their unit franchisees. Their master franchisors are required to file their own FDDs, including franchisee listings, in registration states. New Venture of San Bernardino, a Jan-Pro regional franchisor in California, lists 94 franchisees in its most recent FDD.When Franchise Times called 39 of them at random, only three we reached said they were still active (two said they were making money and a third said she was “doing all right, but I’m not glad I got into this.”) Of the rest, 10 phone numbers had been disconnected or reassigned, seven phones were never answered, 11 people never returned our messages, four people spoke only Spanish and four others said they had left the franchise because they never made any money.

  Out of 17 franchisees listed in Jani-King’s Los Angeles/Colton region, we reached only two that were still active. An Ohio woman listed as a current Coverall franchisee said, “I gave them $16,000 and didn’t get squat. After two years, the most I made was $600 a month.”

  Celeste Iles, of Rialto, California, said, “I paid Jan-Pro of San Bernardino $5,000 for $1,600 worth of work every month. Before I paid the money, I was told that I’d get accounts in the Rialto area and that I could decline jobs in cities I didn’t ask to be in. Once I started, they offered me one cleaning account in Chino, which is 25 miles away, and others 15 to 20 miles away. When I turned those down, they said the offers fulfilled their contractual obligation. They did give me a few little accounts, but I never got my maximum volume.I cleaned one building diligently for over a year. Suddenly, the person in the Jan-Pro office said my level of cleaning went down and I lost the account. When I went back to the customer, they told me they never had a problem with me. I discovered that Jan-Pro would take accounts away from one franchisee to sell them to another franchisee.”

  “Gerardo Vazquez, of Bloomington, California, said he, too, had purchased a franchise that was supposed to generate $1,600 worth of business each month from the San Bernardino Jan-Pro office. “But the office would underbid each contract, and no matter how hard I worked, I never made more than $4 to $5 an hour.” After Vazquez posted his complaints on Internet blogs, he was contacted by so many other Jan-Pro franchisees, they decided to file a class-action lawsuit. ”

  Want to review the source of your bogus stats with us once again, Jerry?

• Guest: Of course, as I answered on the other site, if someone wasn’t there, they didn’t bother to call back. The most common way for owner/operators to utilize for communication purposes is via cellphone, they change numbers more often than Jerry Vazquez happens to change his underwear.

  Of course most of them would not answer the phone regardless, if they didn’t recognize the number.

  The article you are “quoting” was promoted by Jerry/1st amendment/Iloveamerica/Jerry “v” and his wonderful “gang of attorneys”.

  Maybe you need to do a little “full disclosure” , but why do that, when “half truths” work better. Could you start “cut and paste” articles about lawsuits that happened 15 years ago too, then you’ll be just like “jerry v”.

• To Jerry who is working for the cleaning franchisors

  Its funny how jerry who is working for the cleaning franchisors gets mad when the facts come out and all he can try and do is make some joke about it.

  The fact is that people are getting ripped-off by these cleaning franchisors.

  The ones that leave change there phone number because they keep getting harased by these cleaning franchisors.

  Once people leave jan-pro or any other cleaning franchise they still continue to harras you to try and get more money from you.

  It’s a never ending Racket!

• Guest and 1st amendment: Amazing, now you both are coming up with your on excuses as to why Julie Bennet couldn’t get in touch with owner/operators. Wonderful, hey what ever works for you, your reason, my reason, facts etc… RIGHT?

  I’m not mad, I just want to be clear that Facts are Facts. They are undisputable, they are what they are and most are written as in the case of the FDD, Policy and Procedures etc….

  You and “guest” want to “skew” everything, that’s fine, that’s why I’m here to give the Facts and to state them clearly and point out where they are in the Policy and Procedures, FDD etc….

  When you quote articles, when you and/or guest make “blanket statements” I’m here to make sure that everyone understands that not everyhting you say is 100% correct, certainly not everything “guest” says is 100% correct, nor what I say is 100% correct. Everyone needs to do due dilligence, and not believe any of us “black and white” 100% of the time.

• To jerry who is on the franchisors payroll $$$

  So an independent reporter does some investigating. She states facts of her work and you get verry verry mad.

  What hapened you can’t handle the truth!

  There is many more article on the internet from diferent reporters and they all had independent investigations and they print the facts and what hapens you get verry mad when the facts come out.

  More articles have come out on

  1. The Boston Glove

  2. New York Times

  3. Los angeles Times

  4. Franchisetimes.com

  5. Bluemaumau.com

  6. Lawyers Weekly

  7. Courthouse News

  8. National Law Journal

  9. La Opinion

  10. Telemundo

  11. La Voz Conneticutt

  12. Federal Trade Commision

  13. Texas rio Grande Legal Aid

  14. EEOC.gov who enforces federal laws prohibiting employment discrimination

  15. National community of preofesional cleaners

• 1st Amendment:

  Don’t worry. Jerry is a clown with zero credibility.

  He contradicts himself so often it’s laughable. He writes “I just want to be clear that Facts are Facts. They are undisputable, they are what they are and most are written as in the case of the FDD…”

  He states that the FDD is factual and beyond dispute right after he states that they are usually out-of-date by at least a year and that the contact information is unreliable and can’t be trusted.

  The guy claims he read Bego’s book but can’t spell his name, and frequently misspells basic words but somehow feels qualified to dismiss accomplished journalists and to call the Wall Street Journal a “rag”

  He says his Master franchisee was an idiot, says the senior management of Jan-Pro are idiots, yet still encourages people to buy the idiotic franchise.

  I love his comments. They are the most powerful warning to anyone considering a janitorial franchise. Would you really want to pay money to place your fate in the hands of someone like Jerry?

• Guest: Well, what do I say to the smartest man in the room, that knows absolutely nothing about the commercial cleaning business as a whole. I think it’s funny how you continually attack using old articles, old cases, old information and then get caught by me and exposed. You now are trying to defend an article that I ripped to shreds with the basic evidence of “skewing polls” based upon simple facts.

  But instead, here you go again off on a tangent, trying to make yourself and your “assistant” seem like you are the “know it all” of the industry. Then little (big) ole me comes along and discredits nearly everything that you say, challenges you and the viewers to do due dilligence, not to trust you, me and certainly not 1st amendment. Now all of a sudden you and 1st amendment are getting more and more desperate. 1st amendment and you used to “attack” others on various sites, after a couple of “he said, she said” arguments the others simply “vanished”. But not me, I’m still here, not going any where. You continue to attack, attempt to insult and here I am still standing.

  You don’t like “dude love”, “cactus jack”, “nick foley” or “mankind”. 1st amendment states “Jan-Pro is destroying mankind” and some way, some how, you decide to make 1st amendment into a “super hero” swooping down from the skys on his white horse, hair flowing in the breeze and singing hymns.

  And you call me “nuts”

• 1st amendment: Well there you go again, let’s get back to the actual article in question, what was said, what I said etc…. Obviously, I’m not the one attempting to “validate” the article nor the person writing it like you and “guest” are. Maybe there’s something going on, maybe the people are starting to “check things out” and you are the one finding out that the “tide” is turning.

  What’s the matter, starting to “feel the pressure”. Not liking what happened to “aiwah”, don’t like the fact that your attorney’s are constantly using the “aiwah” decision as a “test case”. Wow, 200K later, wonder how “aiwah” is feeling, do you think that Liz is allowing him to wash her car for her to help him “pay off” the debt.

  Maybe “guest” will let him wash his BMW. Maybe he’ll let you start washing now, once a week for the next 5 or 6 years should do the trick.

• To jerry who is on the franchisors payrole $$$

  Would you like me to post all the Lawsuits againts all the cleaning franchisors one by one?

  This could take me days to do since its so many of them.

  All the people who got ripped-off claim the same, Stolen accounts, Fraud, underbid accounts, breach of contract, etc

• If you have been ripped-off by a cleaning franchisor you can file a complaint with the following Goverment agencies.

  Federal Trade Commision

  http://www.Ftc.Gov

  The US Attorney General

  http://www.justice.gov/ag/

  You can also join one of the many class action lawsuits. If you would like more information on our lawsuits against jan-pro you can find my Phone number and e-mail on complaintsboard.com

• 1st amendment: From now on, you are going to be challenged by me to prove your “spewing” of supposed facts. As you have seen on the Jan-Pro site, people are starting to “disprove” what you are saying in regards to the following:

  a) Insurance and Fines related to
  b) Underbidding of Accounts a claim that was provend false by me and others, in fact other than you with your less than one year in the business, it was agreed that the “whores” of the market were ABM and “mom and pops” respectfully.
  c) Policy and Procedures questions including fines, issues etc…

  Starting to feel the TIDE turning?

• To jerry who said that he was an insider at jan-pro

  Again I will repeat and keep proving how wrong you are. Have you read all the complaints on the internet? Have you seen all the Lawsuits against all the cleaning franchisors? There is hundreds of complaints and Lawsuits againts the cleaning franchisors. What do they say. The same thing over and over

  The accounts they give to the cleaners are so badly underbid that there is no money made. This is said on all the Lawsuits and complaints on the internet.

  The insurance is a rip-off. If you don’t get there insurance they get mad. You will also notice that they don’t tell you what insurance they have. If you get your own insurance jan-pro will Fine you $50.00 Dollars.

  Infact jan-pro loves to charge people $50.00 Dollars for everything. If you don’t wear there blue shirt they charge you $50.00 Dollars. If you don’t wear there tag they charge you $50.00 Dollars. If you dont turn in this paper that tells them what account your cleaning at the end of the month they charge you $50.00 Dollars, when in fact they already know what account you are cleaning. This is just another scam to get more money out of you. All these FINES ad up in a year. If one of your cleaning bottles is smeared of a litle and they can’t understand it they will fine you $50.00 Dollars.

  They will make up bogus excuses to take accounts away from you by telling you that the customer isn’t happy. They will FINE you $500.00 Dollars everyday if you don’t turn in the key. They scare the cleaners this way into turning in the keys. Then when they go back and talk to the customer the customer tells the cleaner that they were very happy with there service and the customer is disapointed that jan-pro removed the cleaner from there account.

  This is a Racket and like a Judge said a Modified Ponzi Scheme !

• 1st amendment: So everything said on the Internet is 100% true all the time? REALLY. This coming from a man that supposidly did the following:

  1. Didn’t read an FDD
  2. Didn’t understand what parts of the FDD he did read
  3. Gave someone 10K of his hard earned money for the “promise” of $25.00 per hour.
  4. After giving someone 10K, he attended a training class by which he didn’t bother listening to, didn’t bother reading any of the material, didn’t bother following any of the material.
  5. Turned around and gave another 1K for a starter kit that he didn’t understand how to use, didn’t want to use
  6. Took a customer without meeting them, without touring the facility, without getting a copy of specifications, signed the account acceptance agreement
  7. Took a factor of 5X the amount of time to clean a facility that an untrained, part-time hourly employee wouldn’t have taken with little to no equipment or experience.
  8. Complained about the customer, complained about the “master”, wanted his money back, when refused by the “master” through a major “fit” in the office.
  9. Went back to the building, did a poor job. So poor in fact had an email sent by the customer to the regional office asking/demanding his removal
  10. After being told he was being pulled out of the facility at the request of the customer, through another “fit” threatened physically various people and then had to be called back to the office and “threatened with a $500.00 fine”

  After changing his story and telling his story so many times, so many ways, he finally “latched’ on to a person that saw an opportunity to attempt to do the following:

  a) Class Action Lawsuit: Money, Fame, Prestige
  b) Union Envolvement, possible new union members paying outrageous dues for at best a minimum wage job.
  c) Future Progressive/Democratic Voter.

  Now no offense 1st amendment, everyone has seen your postings, everyone has “listened” to your side of things for 1.5 years now. Which “story” sounds more real, YOURS or MINE. Let the viewers decide.

• 1st Amendment:

  You’ve got to understand where Jerry’s coming from. He was raised in the segregated South. His grandparents probably could remember slavery. In the South where he/she was raised there were “House slaves” and “Field slaves” The House Slaves lived in the big house and got better food, clothing and treatment and believed themselves to be better than their fieldworker bretheren.

  They thought they were on the same team as their “Masters” (even the terms are the same). They would keep the field slaves in line and even inform on them. Of course their “Master” let them believe that but in reality they were still slaves.

  Jerry is from the tradition of the Field Slave. He defends the Master like he’s on their level, but at the end of the day he was just a cog in the corrupt machine that turned slave labor into mini-mansions and Jacuzzis for the “Masters”

• Why do cleaning franchisors hurt people like Mr. Padilha and Mr. Martins. Please read part of the following article that came out in the New York Times.

  What was hapening in 2005 is still hapening today in 2010.

  To read the whole article you can go to the following link.

  http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/13/national/13franchising.html

  Lawsuits Charge Fraud in Cleaning Business

  By STEVEN GREENHOUSE
  Published: July 13, 2005

  João Padilha had been saving money from his work as a restaurant deliveryman outside Boston when he heard a tantalizing offer to buy a cleaning franchise.

  Marcos Martins, a Brazilian immigrant like Mr. Padilha, was looking to go into business.

  Tri Duc Nguyen, a Vietnamese immigrant in Portland, Ore., needed a way to make money after Fujitsu closed the factory where he worked.

  All three men put thousands of dollars into cleaning franchises and say they were shortchanged.

  As Mr. Padilha retells it, the top Boston representative of Coverall Cleaning Concepts said he could make $3,000 a month cleaning buildings if he paid $12,880 for a franchise. What is more, Mr. Padilha says he was told he could easily parlay his investment into a large cleaning business.

  So Mr. Padilha paid the money and was assigned two women’s health clinics, in Haverhill and Newburyport, Mass.

  He was told it would take two and a half hours a day to clean the clinics, but it took six hours, he said. Coverall also gave him two dialysis clinics, and soon he was cleaning and shuttling among clinics from 5:30 p.m. to 7 a.m. on weekdays, with six more hours on weekends.

  He estimated that he worked 65 hours a week and 280 hours a month. But his receipts show that Coverall, which handled payments, paid him $1,262 a month, less than half what he says he had been promised.

  “I was doing all this work, but the check was for very little money,” Mr. Padilha said.

  So he went to the director of Coverall’s Boston office to complain.

  “When I came in, they said I had no more work,” Mr. Padilha said. “He said the supervisor of one clinic no longer wanted me. They took all my work away in one fell swoop. I asked for my franchise money back, but they said no.”

  “It’s sad for a man to cry, but I left that room crying,” he added.

  Mr. Padilha said he recouped none of his investment and soon learned that Mr. Martins had obtained the franchise to clean the dialysis clinics.

  Mr. Martins said: “I asked why the person who was doing it before had discontinued the work. The field consultant told me the person had gone back to Brazil.”

  Mr. Martins put $5,000 down and promised to pay $306 a month for two years to obtain a franchise that he was told would generate $2,000 a month for him. He said he cleaned clinics 72 hours a week, about 300 hours a month, but received just $1,366.

  He, too, was, abruptly terminated at the clinics for reasons he says he never understood.

  A dozen franchisees, including Mr. Padilha and Mr. Martins, are suing Coverall, charging it with fraud, breach of contract and failing to pay the minimum wage. They assert that the company took out improperly large commissions and did not have enough customers to supply franchisees.

• Guest: Your nonsense about the South only shows your arrogance. That’s why people don’t listen to you and take you seriously. Only one’s that do, think like you do, act like you do and eventually all you have done, is proven to the people viewing this Site, is you are an IDIOT!!

• Janiking seems to be ripping of alot of people here in USA and also in the UK. There is a UK blog http://www.able2know.com in that blog you can read some of the Horror stories of how janiking rips-off people. However I liked what someone posted and decided to share it with all of you. Basicaly its about people coming together and taking ACTION!

  http://able2know.org/topic/40641-6

  There was a group called the Cleanup group in 1999. Started by a franchisee, who got in touch with as many other franchisees as possible, from the list provided in due diligence, who then, in turn, contacted all the franchisees they knew and held meetings in Tamworth. Franchisees came from all over the country, also Scotland. They all decided to go collectively to the press. There was a massive campaign by the Daily Mirror’s SORTED page by Andrew Penman, even the Times carried the story, he was hated by J.K. J.K. met with the representatives of the Cleanup group, gave the leaders top jobs, changed their ways for a couple of years then went back to normal after riding out the storm.
  Maybe it is time for another Cleanup Group
  There was also a good solicitor called Douglas Jones Mercer at
  I do not know if they still practice but it would be worth a try.
  Good Luck!

  URL: http://able2know.org/topic/40641-6

• To anyone considering a janitorial or commercial cleaning franchise:

  Here’s a money-saving, time-saving tip for anyone considering signing a janitorial franchise agreement:

  Call one of the attorneys who is suing or has sued Jan-Pro or other janitorial franchisors and pay them to review the agreement and advise you. They already know these agreements backwards and forwards, and know all the hidden franchisor tricks and the worst provisions. You’ll only have to pay them to glance over your version of the FDD, and they can spend their time explaining to you what you’re risking by signing.

  Believe me, it will be much cheaper than coming back to them after being swindled and violated by a slick contract that’s been refined by the best franchise law firms money can buy.

• SEIU: Still waiting for your sheer brillant mind to tell me and all the viewers on this site: WHATS NEXT!!!!!!!

  You cant answer a simple question, proposed to you by a SIMPLE minded individual as you continue your non-sense bantor… This is thirty thousand plus investors waiting for you to tell them your thoughts about WHATS NEXT!!!!!

  If you don’t care, be man enough to admit you dont care. If you don’t know, admit you don’t know, if you can’t think about that because you are attempting to LINE your OWN pockets, then I guess the viewers will decide whether or not to listen to your dribble…..

  Here’s a money saving, time saving tip for anyone considering signing a janitorial franchise agreement: DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!!!

• “Here’s a money saving, time saving tip for anyone considering signing a janitorial franchise agreement: DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!!!”

  Forget Do Your Homework…..just start your own company. Control your own destiny.

• Pete: Bravo!!! Here’s a thought process, how about sales, how about admin, how about managment, how about customer relationship building, how about credit, how about all of those things and more. There’s a valid reason why people purchase a UNIT FRANCHISE, just because you and I don’t need too, doesn’t mean others don’t.