LIBERTY TAX SERVICE Franchise Complaints

5,730 thoughts on “LIBERTY TAX SERVICE Franchise Complaints”

• Yup Bill is correct unless a zee is hogging the area for returns, like using gimmick’s to bring people in and turning a blind eye to suspect returns in order to write the business, then of course they will alway’s have a higher number count. But writing correct and accurate returns with LTS is a rare zee. You just don’t get the high numbers because a fraud will send more fraud’s to the same store. A friend does not rarely send anyone or very few. But fraud’s are a dime a dozen.

  The bigger zee’s have the money and man power to give $50 cash in a flash and $50 per fraud sent. Where an honest zee, will not have the type of money. So being an honest tax preparer, you will make more money eventually on your own than ever with LTS.

• How interesting – Rufe Vanderpool COO of LTS just left the company on 10/07/2013. What’s interesting, nothing from LTS stating this major change, however lucky they are a public company and filed with the SEC. Thanks for that. On zeenet, we just have info about Mark Baumgartner taking over a new spot. Really John, you suck! Can’t you tell your own money maker’s when there is a huge shake up our organization. Oh, that’s right, it ain’t my business, I am just suppose to pay and shut up! Let’s see if someone in LTS land will send an email to the zees announcing a huge shake up! Dumb @rses!

• Thank you everyone. You guys have saved me from franchising. By piecing the numbers together, I realize how hard it is to make money.

• Congrats up hill battle. You will be just fine on your own with less money out of your pocket or you get to decide how much you want to spend.

• Congrats Up Hill for going solo. You will be closing down in two years as you won’t be able to compete with Liberty Tax and HR Block.

• yes…you might also consider opening a mcdonalds – but do it on your own to save money on franchise fees. Sorry, couldn’t resist.

• Stugotz: Nice, do you now work for both Liberty & HR Block or did you realize
  how absurd your comment would be if you had just stated Liberty Tax Service. There is really only one serious retail tax prep. service with a brand name and that is HR Block. Your comment supports what I’ve been saying all along Liberty has no brand name.

  Now I understand how you got the name “Stugotz”!

  Buyer Beware!!!

• stugotz, qctibs and guest1974: Ah, yes, the three stooges.

  The three stooges who have nothing better to do with their time than to put people down and call them losers. Actually, we are the smart ones. We got out of that hell hole they call Liberty Tax Service. The BEST thing I ever did.

  Anyone reading these 2800+ posts that are vastly negative except for these three stooges, who just love everything about this shit hole of a company. You three can stay and be franchisees with Liberty Tax Service forever & ever. A match made in heaven.

  The rest of us sane people who left that god awful franchise know what the IRS & DOJ already know. That company stinks royally and the man at the top, John T. Hewitt stinks to high hell. He WILL get what he deserves, a new home, a padded jail cell. Patiently waiting…..

  A McDonald’s franchise is waaaaaaay better than a Liberty Tax franchise, any day of the week. At least they advertise and support their franchisees. It’s night and day the way their franchisees are treated. This Liberty Tax franchise STINKS. Anyone with half a brain (that leaves out the three stooges) can see what a piece of nothing they are getting for their money. I began my 5 year contract so early in the process and they have gotten worse, tightening a noose around the necks of the current franchisees. “Notices to Cure”, my ass.

  The three stooges can take this company and shove it. It really is good for nothing. As time goes on we will see more & more franchisees struggling, I can guarantee that. And NO support, just hand over your money.

• Since it is tax territory selling time, Liberty has set up the “Three Stooges” ,as SanFran calls them, to try to counteract the adverse publicity that they have generated by being a disreputable tax company on this site. I think the “Three Stooges” is a very appropriate name for these plants by John Screwitt. Seeing 2850+ comments regarding these crooks should tell the buying public to stay far away from their tentacles. Liberty is now in an end run trying to deceive and trick more people into their franchise web. Be smart, don’t do it! There is enough warning out there that any reasonable person should be extremely wary of this company. I still get calls from their marketers even though I am no longer associated with these thieves. That should indicate how stupid they really are!

  Smart move is to move far away from these thiefs, even stay out of Virginia on the off chance they may see you. Do your own tax company and stay reputable so you can sleep at night.

• Actually H&R block doesn’t have a franchise fee
  There is 2500$ refundable deposit
  Block isn’t in the business of “selling” franchises.

• 25% off to furloughed employees! Yet again, John John giving away your money! Last tax season was my first one without Liberty and it was great! I made twice the money for a fraction of the effort!

  And that 25% is discounted off of an insanely overpriced fee, so its 25% off a return that is artificially priced high to begin with! Nice try!

• I know right?? How sweet of John to offer that discount that he does even pay for nor does he do any of the work or pay any of the bills.

• I always found the Liberty discounts laughable anyway. Can you imagine going into a department store and seeing discounts like 50%, 30%, but nothing has a price tag on it!!! Then you can walk in the same store three towns over and the price is completely different.

• That is what Liberty is all about: being generous with your money. It just goes to show that Hewitt likes to prey on those down and out, whether they are furloughed government workers, low income families of just someone trying to own their own business. When will his madness stop?

• Haven’t been on this website in a while. Looks like the same cry babies are still here. Very suspicious that it sounds like the same person posting and re-posting with the same name.

• “You will be closing down in two years as you won’t be able to compete with Liberty Tax and HR Block.” stugotz

  I think Liberty and HRB COMBINED do maybe 20% of all professionally prepared returns. HRB has its market share somewhere in its annual reports. Liberty’s would be so miniscule I don’t think they bother to report it.

  So that leaves 80% for other paid preparers. Seems to me that’s a whole lot of potential clients. And you condemn Up Hill Battle to failure without knowing what market s/he wants to serve. Maybe Up Hill’s specialty is partnerships or nonprofits or small businesses, not EITC clients. In that case, the competition is likely CPA firms and some HRB offices depending on the locale. Make the right connections, do a good job at a fair price, be patient, and there’s no reason to expect failure.

• Please keep posting. I have learned a lot. And you guys have given very valuable information.

• Good for you, Up Hill Battle! There is nothing that energizes me more than turning people away from this awful franchise. I’ve probably turned away @30 that I know of, and hopefully more from this forum! Everyone is SO grateful! :)

  Good luck. No matter how small you start off, just remember…..it’s YOURS and YOURS alone. Each year you will build it up slowly, with NO crap from this franchise, NO franchise fees, NO software spyware, NO free returns, NO money grubbing AD’s in your face each week…………NO to all of that!!!

  You will get honest, decent referrals. I sometimes had entire families come to me, including cousins, parents, children, brothers and their families, etc. If you end up doing 100+ in your first year, you should be so very satisfied. The momentum will build, and just keep your advertising to a minimum. Sometimes the free newspapers will do a feature on a new business with the payment of one
  display ad.

  Good luck and let us know how you’re doing!

• SaraEA
  Per IRS estimates H&R block prepares 1 in 7 of all tax returns filed in the United States.
  Roughly half of taxpayers do their own.
  Block accounts for about 30% by themselves

• Greg, are you an HR Block franchisee? Reality is more returns prepared by independants. It’s also looking like independants have more value in their businesses. There is advantage to starting with a franchise if you have no experience. Help from other franchisees is worth a lot. Much more profit as an independant, if you can get the returns. Very nice to control your own money.

• I’m just talking numbers per IRS estimayes and the truth is not what Saraea was stating.
  I think those numbers may be accurate in metropolitan areas but in smaller towns they are off.
  I’ve got a pretty good working relationship with several block franchisees and knowing their numbers in towns with populations of 10-25 thousand people (not 10-25 thousand returns) there is no way 80% of paid returns are up for grabs.
  There are was to get IRS data per efin. Many tax business come and go. Some come and stay.
  The risks are smaller in metro areas but in smaller towns and cities its a much larger risk

• AARP and VITA do millions of returns for FREE and growing! The paid market is shrinking fast. But don’t worry Liberty Tax is going to be the fastest growing ever!! Next years franchisees will likely be required to do 300 returns for FREE! Watch out AARP Liberty Tax is going to put you out of business! Hahaha! !!!

• You have to look deeper into HRB’s stats. In their 2013 Annual Report they say they filed 1 in 6 US returns, which equals about 17%. That number, however, includes returns filed by AND THROUGH Block, and includes people using their at-home and online software and free-file (these account for about one-third of their business). So do-it-yourselfers are included in their stats. The paid preparer market has remained steady the past few years at around 60% of filed returns.

  It’s impossible to crunch the numbers exactly because some stats include all returns (1040, 1041, 1065, 1120 etc) and some just individual returns. The point is that independents have the bulk of the paid preparer market. Greg is correct that location matters too. I went through a small WV town where I saw one CPA and one HRB office. Bet between the two of them they do 90% of the paid preparer market! Given the right location and the right match between client needs and preparer skill, Up Hill Battle has a good chance of making a go on his or her own.

• SaraEA & Mike: Thank you for your insight into the tax preparation market but the
  purpose of this site is to address issues pertaining to Liberty Tax Service and specifically if investing in this franchise is a good idea.

• bill – the purpose of this sight is for current or former franchisees who have failed or are failing to vent their frustrations and look at every glass as half full – and if you look back it’s also about throwing out wild accusations about the family of the CEO. To suggest it’s about a fundamental, unbiased analysis of the opportunity presented to current and future franchisees is just off the mark. To my point, discussions about the market opportunity that Liberty operates in is vital to prospective franchisees. Discussions about who is sleeping with who, the imminent DOJ suit against Liberty that will be coming out any day now (as of a year ago – seems to have been missed in the media), the loss of money invested into a business by someone who didn’t realize they were investing in a business, but instead thought once they made the investment the hard work was done, ….. oh, forget it – I could go on, but you get the idea

• q-tips: excellent commentary. Aren’t you so right, isn’t this the site to talk about John’s passions….? .anyway…. .if Liberty was making money why hasn’t John bought braces? If you want to find out if Liberty Tax is making money, go to the nearest one and ask the franchisee how they are doing.

• I stop by here about once a month or so just to read up on some of the comments on this site. They make me chuckle most of the time. I own multiple offices, have been in the system for 7 years and make decent money with Liberty.

  Could I possibly go it on my own now that I know a thing or two. Yea possibly, but at the end of the day I feel Liberty brand/process etc. brings me half my customers (at least a third). As long as that number is at least 1 out of 5, I dont mind paying the 19% royalties.

  Believe me I have seen several franchisees come and go in my short tenure with Liberty. So definitely some fail. Basically the hang on point seems to be about 3 years. Any office you see over 3 years presumably with the same owner in place is at least successful on some level and making money.

  The notion on here that Liberty only makes money by sellign territories and churning them over is ludricous. Sure they get some money from this but they make the majority of the money through royalties. People discuss fee intercept and Liberty taking all your money.

  Well guess what, if you borrow money to the gills and owe them, wouldn’t you take it if you were them? Is that Liberty’s fault if you fail? I mean what business can you start up borrowing money to the gills not having any cushion not even having enough money to pay basic operating and marketing costs and succeed? You could have the best idea ever, but are you most likely goign to just flip an open switch on and magically money will just start fallign from the sky come on. These people blame Liberty for the poor execution, poor financial position, poor planning etc.

  Liberty is not perfect, and I wish they had a better screening process to not let guaranteed failures in to the system. A no I am not a corporate plant or Johns butt buddy or anytihng crazy like that. Common sense here people obviously some franchisees are successful and even very successful or Liberty would not be growing by leaps and bounds!

• If Liberty was growing by LEAPS and BOUNDS, they wouldn’t be so desperate to sell territories. I still get calls at least twice a week asking if I was interested in buying a territory. THEY ARE HILARIOUS!!

• Oh ok. How do you think they are growing by leaps and bounds? So let me get this straight, you think this registers as a negative that they actually have someone at corporate making calls to prospective tax professionals to see if they are interested in opening a Liberty Tax?

  They have enormous room for growth as they only have about a 1/4th of the offices Block has and prepare maybe a 1/8 to 1/10 the number of returns Block does overall. No offense, but you are really showing your ignorance regarding how things work. I am thrilled they are actively trying to sell new territories (thus opening more offices and growing) I would be worried if they wern’t calling.

  Guess what, I call my prior year customers and also do marketing to try and obtain new customers every year. Oh wait I guess that makes me a failure and “desperate” as you say. How about this Liberty and myself will keep doing things the “desperate” way and try to make a buck or two and you do things the way you think they need to be done.

  Ok I’ll check back in a few weeks to get some more laughs in. I just had to rebuttle your response because honestly, it makes no sense that you think Liberty is desperate because they are actively seeking new franchisees.

• Ed, I got to disagree with you. I’m glad you are experiencing success, but that is clearly the exception rather than the rule in this franchise. My experience is that the Corporate functionaries and AD’s are only after your next dollar. They certainly were after mine. The practices that they use in order to get as much money out of you as possible are the high royalty fees, the encouragement to buy more and more territories and the methods of maximizing fees of EIC people by outright lies, are examples of their attitude to us Zees.

  It seems to me that you are doing all your marketing and the support you get from Liberty is negligible. That is the system that Liberty employs.

• What is funny is that they call people who are on the do not call list. Tell me that is not desperate.

• Ed:

  Everyone’s own personal situations are different. I personally was not a failure. In fact, just the opposite. I was on every one of those reports that come out as a star franchisee. By the way, I too had multiple offices.

  Just because someone leaves the franchise in disgust and has only negative things to say about their experience does not necessarily make them a failure.

  As I’ve said in many posts: this franchise stinks to high hell. They are money grubbing and have set up a corporation to appear and look like they really care. They do not. This crook has over 42 years of perfecting his craft and has done it well. That doesn’t mean this franchise is a smart or good investment.

  I stand by every one of my posts when I say this is the worst company to invest in as a franchisee. They treat the franchisees like scum and there are WAY too many dishonest things going on behind the scenes to epic proportions. I know that to be a fact. Believe me. There is very good reason why the IRS and DOJ are after him.

  As Bill would say, “Buyer Beware” and stay away from this franchise. Honestly, you will be better off any where else.

• Ed: Your paragraph about a better selection process is counter to your argument that Liberty is not about selling franchises and simple churning them. Their system is how you ended up with multiple stores.

  Could you go out on your own? No, the franchises agreement basically eliminates that option. Second your making “decent” money and since your bound by the contract your not looking to go anywhere, all though you might wish you could. Third when you do want to get out Liberty holds all the cards so to get some value for your stores you need to play nice. Which means your opinion is biased.

  Since I have no skin in the game my only goal is to warn potential franchisees of the pitfall of purchasing a Liberty Tax Franchise. Number one reason not to is NO national advertising, Number two is a questionable brand name, and while this is not number 3 it agrees with your point that Liberty does not exercise good judgment in who they sell a franchise to i.e. someone with no tax experience, which is detrimental to the reputation of all the hard working, knowledgeable
  franchisees.

• Good conversatoin. To summarize:

  1) bad franchise because if you try to go private they won’t let you just change the name on your door and keep the clients you obtained using their brand name and their system. The nerve.
  2) They put time, effort, and money into selling territories to new franchisees
  3) Liberty does not have a crystal ball- they cannot tell with full confidence who will be successful and who will not. All the other franchisors do have crystal balls
  4) The IRS and DOJ are after Liberty. This was true a year ago when the DOJ was about to go public, and that didn’t happen but they are still “after” Liberty. Just you wait. Any day now.
  5) anybody who fails was mistreated and mislead; anyone who is wildly succesful is the exception, and if they post here they don’t understand what this board is about – it’s about being unhappy and wanting the world to know it wasn’t the fault of the franchisee, somehow they got swindled – and I can’t tell you how but it stinks to high hell
  6) No national advertising – therefore not a franchise to invest in. Because any good franchise has national advertising and all the franchisee has to do is open their doors and success will follow. That’s why Jackson Hewitt, which has national advertising in the same business, is doing so well. That’s why HRBLock, which has some of the best branding out there, is starting to copy Liberty’s marketing approach in many ways.

  There are obviously some smart people on this board who now how to frame an argument or a slander, and while some are paid (none of you of course) to drum up the activity to create profits for this website, what anyone should do is listen to the schills and just don’t bother doing your own due diligence. The best advice is invest in any franchise but this – because all the rest are so much better. Jackon Hewitt. Curves. Quizinos. Boston Market. You know, any other franchise you can think of.

• LTS will tell a company or individual that “Your/you” will be successful with them. There is nothing in their propaganda that states how you could or will fail. How you will not make enough money in the three months of work.

  They tell you this is your business, they are just there to help you become successful. But at the time of leaving, they want the files, anything linking you or your company to them. You are told never to tell anyone you were with them as a company. I mean how absurd, telling anyone they are not allowed to state they have had a contract with this hoopty company?

  When we started, we were cautiously optimistic and the person helping us, danced around that LTS never wants anyone to know of the failing zees. It is a dirty little secret that is trying to not to see the light of day. What is interesting, when looking at the top zees, they change constantly. It is hard to figure out who is still in or who is out.

• I stand by every post I’ve made here. This is a despicable company where it is so clear the right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing. The professionalism is out the window and it’s all about how much they can rip you off for. Of course you don’t know you’re getting ripped off until much later.

  There are SO many red flags now a days with this company.Too bad there weren’t when I started. I would have NEVER put down one penny and would have RUN fast in the other direction. Anyone intelligent and doing their due-dilligence now a days should see how many unhappy ex-franchisees and CURRENT franchisees there are. Not just on this forum, but on many forums and in talking to real people, not the fake ones that the corporate office provides.

  It is utterly amazing how easy their marketing scam works and how easy it is to prey upon people’s emotions. Keep saying whatever you want, qctibs Hewitt. I’m posting on Unhappy Franchisee. And you? Unhappy too? You must be!

  There are millions of marketing scams out there in the form of franchises. This is definitely one of them. In every way. I do not have to list on a public forum any personal info. for people to get the message loud & clear………STAY AWAY from investing in this franchise. You don’t have to touch a hot stove to know you will be burned. It goes way beyond what I am writing on this forum. I have tons of insider information that will come out eventually.

  So, you and your 2 or 3 friends can keep this game of disillusionment going. There are so many people that have posted over the last however many years and soooooooo many who have not posted. I’ve been to those conventions. I’ve done everything with that company and it is 100% a rip-off in every way, shape & form. To say otherwise is kidding yourself. Swindeled is just the beginning.

  This guy was thrown out of his own company! Jackson Hewitt! He’s an idiot and a detriment to anyone around him. He is a professional con-artist and has a career of ripping people off. He’s doing it now to the stock owners.

  So qctibs Hewitt: Just continue to defend that hell hole of a company. I thank god every single day I am out of there and still have my sanity. It was the most awful experience of a lifetime and I was successful as a zee with multiple offices. Yucch. NEVER AGAIN. As Bill would say, “Buyer Beware”. Or rather, don’t bother! Go elsewhere! Anywhere else!

• so many unhappy franchisees. What, the five that post here under various pseudonyms? Yes, they have prospective franchisees meet successful franchisees – which are the people I want to talk to – what does it take to be successful? If that’s where your due diligence stopped, you should not be in business for yourself. I called a couple dozen franchisees from the disclosure document – focusing on those no longer with Liberty. Did you not do that? Buying into any franchise you need to do your due diligence – not rely on slander from failures – talk to a real person and ask specific questions and get real answers, from successful and from not-so-successful.

• qctibs:

  I will no longer engage in a conversation with you. What I did or didn’t do way back when is my business and you can be assured I did every due diligence within my power at that time. And then some.

  I will repeat myself for the last time: I was not a failure with this so-called company. I was a success. That doesn’t change my view of this franchise one bit. They stink to high hell. They are professional rip off artists and not anything less.

  I am thrilled beyond belief to be away from that hell hole of a company. You do not have to be a failure with this franchise to know that they reek of scamming people out of their money. Their system SUCKS.

  Yes, I actually agree with you on doing your research ahead of time. You will uncover lots & lots of people out there who have been silenced and do not feel like they can actually speak. “Failure” is such a broad term used quite lightly by you. “Failure” could mean any number of ways of not meeting expectations or client numbers or money counts.

  Franchizee: you are right when you comment about treading lightly with them. They change the rules based on their own agenda…………it’s your business but these are our rules. Not just any franchise rules, Nazi rules. Make sure you dot your i and cross your t or you will get a “Notice to Cure”. As soon as there is an issue, it’s your business, your fault. After all, our company is so perfect, it couldn’t possibly be our fault. Their software is rigged with spyware-fact. Their promotional products that you HAVE to buy are marked up 5,000%. It took DAYS for their support people to help find an answer to a computer problem, always in the height of the season. I could go on and on and on. I’m just touching the tip of the iceberg.

  qctibs: Of course this is a public forum and you can write whatever you want to on UNHAPPY FRANCHISEE. But just remember, you don’t have to be a “failure” to know this company SUCKS. Write away. The bottom line is that people who want to invest their hard earned money into this franchise have to ask themselves a lot of very hard questions. What happens if I walk away after 5 years? I have nothing. No customers, no money, no nothing. It was if I was paying rent to this company for 5 years and left with absolutely nothing to show for it. Except debt.

  So qctibs: Most definitely you keep posting here how wonderful this franchise is, because after all, this is UNHAPPY FRANCHISEE. And you keep indicating we are all “failures”. After all, if you leave Liberty Tax and are unhappy, you MUST be a failure! Ha, ha.

  I tell people the truth when they contact me, and so many prospective franchisees have. I tell them the truth, the good (?) and the bad (!) and let them decide. I’m THRILLED when they let me know they’ve decided against putting their hard earned money into this franchise and that their decision will pay off for them in the end.

  And no, I am not paid one penny for any post on this website. That’s funny. I’m sure Admin. would love some donations so he could pay his bills! Admin. is doing this website out of the goodness of his heart because he, too, was scammed in the franchise world. And knows full well as I do, you do not need to be a failure in this business to know when the franchise stinks to high hell and is after only your money and not on your success.

  Good luck to you qctibs. I will no longer engage in a battle of words with you.

• you had me at “I will no longer engage”

• ^^Wise ass

• Qctibs,

  I could not have said it any better. What is funny is I bought into this franchise in 2009. I never did call the unsuccessful franchisees but i did find this website and the same 3-4 losers ( i really think it is the same guy posting with different aliases) were posting in 2009. I actually felt better after reading this website about buying this franchise. I could tell from the postings that everyone that failed just thought all the they had to do is buy a franchise and be successful just like that. That somehow investing $40k would get you a turn key business. All i read was people blaming others for their failings. Actually pretty funny that they believe they have influenced even one person from buying because of their postings. If anything, it makes people realize why a percentage of people do fail. The reason is a percentage of the population has no business going into business, any business, not just this one.

• Talked to a current franchisee that does 475 to 575 returns not revealing the actual number for his protection. But that by liberty standards is a huge office. Well he is closing soon because liberty sucks.

• Delayed tax season will flush out those stores standing on their last leg. Even if Jackson-Hewitt, hr block, liberty, or independents. Delayed to February means will need money for January and February bills since first payments would be mid-February. No need to worry about who’s happy and who’s not. Better start planning now. IRS announced delayed season today, either Jan 28 or feb4th.

• John Barilla wrote “Actually pretty funny that they believe they have influenced even one person from buying because of their postings.”

  Better tell John Hewitt, cuz he stood up at a franchisor conference last year and was ranting about how this website was hurting franchise sales.

  What’s funny is someone who keeps trying to do damage control on here saying no one is affected by the discussion. What’s funny is the thought that someone wouldn’t be affected by nearly 3000 negative comments.

• My point was it didn’t affect me. Also, in my opinion, anyone that would be affected by the lame excuses you guys give for why you failed would have failed anyways as obviously not too bright.

• ” anyone that would be affected by the lame excuses you guys give for why you failed would have failed anyways as obviously not too bright.”

  Anyone who would encounter 3,000 negative comments about the Liberty Tax franchise and not conclude that there’s something very very wrong here would obviously not be too bright either.

  Maybe that’s the new franchisee profile since this discussion appeared: either too dumb to know that “where there’s smoke, there’s fire,” or people with no computer or internet access so they can’t come across these warnings.

  Watch for LT franchise ads targeting the Amish. They are probably the only ones not being warned by this site.

• @Guest2: Do you think this year’s delay would be worse for Liberty Zees than last year when e-file opened on Jan 30th? As for corporate, Liberty had a paltry $849K in cash on Jan 31, 2013, so their well was pretty dry then. Will corporate need a bigger credit line?

• You guys keep posting. Believe me, a smart person will dig deeper because of the unfavorable comments. Some of the posted comments are probably just desperate attempts at damage control.

• @ dr Zhivago: No. Delays will mean more borrowed money. Low morale. Harder on stores but will hit all three – JH – HR- Lib. No refunds until mid-February. If you’re strapped now, you’ll be broke by mid-Feb. Should balance out by March, but you got to make it to March.

• @guest 2 – Did you listen to the emergency phone call from John? Bad news for everyone. The IRS is still not going to know when they are opening, as late as Feb 4 for the first return to be submitted, however if we have another problem with the government in January as suspected, they may delay again. Of course John is going to apply for more funding for marketing and cash in a flash and send a friends. Yup, let’s go into more debt just hoping for a payout. Now our paying season has short.