IS AMWAY A SCAM?

1,020 thoughts on “IS AMWAY A SCAM?”

• Ibofbck, I don’t think Amway provides sufficient information to calculate average income for the given year you provided earlier via the link you wrote.

  Average income is definitely a meaningful way of representing income, that’s why even government agencies use average income. If anything, average income helps the system look better than what it really is, since it takes from the few that are making a lot, and put it on the the majority how are making little or are even taking a loss. Average income in Amway is a representation of the majority, and it makes the majority look better, income wise

• Hi, my best friend’s son has gotten suckered into Amway. No matter how much everyone tries to tell him what a scam it is (and I seriously do not have the time to go into all of the details of how misleading it is), he isn’t listening. They are a cult – brainwashing young people who do not have life’s experience to see what it truly is. My question is this: Has anyone ever been able to convince their loved one to leave Amway and if you have, how did you do it?

• Funnily enough SyzyQ, I was just reading an obituary of Mike Wallace, the great 60 minutes investigative journalist. Back in the 80’s 60 minutes did a year long investigation into Amway.

  What did he find?

  Wallace had nothing but kind words for Amway upon his return, saying that he’d started out his investigative piece with “preconceived misconceptions” that he later discovered to be in error.

  “Look, they’re not criminals,” he said. “We found their products are good and they’re not a pyramid operation.”

  “These are classy people,”

  So …. how long have you spent researching Amway? As long as Mike Wallace did? Or are you wedded to the “preconceived misconceptions” that so many people have?

• Yes, you should definitely trust Amway because Mike Wallace called them “classy people” 20 or 30 years ago.

  And you should also smoke unfiltered Philip Morris cigarettes because Mike Wallace said they were natural and really something special. Watch him here:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exJtXArLP3w

  Mike Wallace was a very effective pitchman for Parliament and Philip Morris cigarettes. He smoked on air and did all kinds of endorsements for them on his Philip Morris sponsored show. Later on he exposed Big Tobacco for the sinister crooks they are, but not before he encouraged an entire generation to smoke their cancer-sticks.

  How appropos that ibofightback would try to exploit the death of newsman Mike Wallace to sell another harmful and deceptive product: The Amway MLM scam.

• so … “guest” … in the 55 years since that “pitch” was recorded (1957), we’ve learned a few things about smoking, as did Mike Wallace, who as you note later led a crusade against smoking and Big Tobacco.

  Care to explain why, in 52 years, not a single formal or official investigation into Amway, nor Mike Wallace, has “learned” what you claim?

  55 years was plenty of time for the world to learn “the truth about smoking”

  How long until the world learns the truth about Amway?

• IBOFightback likes to debate on a seesaw. He likes to pick only one side of the story, whichever is more favorable to Amway. Yes, it looks like Mike Wallace thought Rich DeVos was a classy guy. What happened in 1983? Rich Devos’s directly speaking speech where he basically admitted that tools scam was a pyramid, but Amway certainly did not put a stop to it. While Amway may have been okay in Mike Wallace’s book, he was not referring to the AMOs such as Network 21 or WWDB. which have been the “scam” part of Amway since I can remember.

  The tools scam portion also resurfaced in the 2004 Dateline segment that filmed an actual function which I believe was hosted by BWW. Strange how Amway and Bill Britt declined comment on that segment and later issued their own propaganda response to their IBOs.

  It’s just like how IBOs are bragging about Amway’s increased sales but not commenting on how IBOs in general are not making anymore money today than they did before the sales increase.

• There are definite parallels between smoking and selling Amway.

  In fact, the FDA is proposing legislation requiring graphic warning labels on all Amway products. The controversial labels depict graphic representations of ibofightback blog comments accompanied by the warning that selling amway products may cause annoyingness, a compulsion to try too hard to justify a cheesy mlm scam, and will likely lead to a lack of friends and/or invitations to non-commercial social engagements.

• some says work hard in Amway for a few years and you can retire early or young, but i keep wondering that are these IBOs really retire?

  I mean let’s see: they still have to “share” their products to anyone, basically anymore to make sales, because if not, their PV will not increase.

  Also, they still need to always keep in touch with their network in order to grow the network instead of letting it shrinks. Nonetheless the every-week-on-going meetings which basically talk about the same thing again and again.

  In other words, as I can see, this business requires you to quit your job so that you will have the time to fully concentrate on it, grow the network so that you will get the paycheck at the end of every month.

  This is merely my opinions, and I ask for arguments. Thanks.

• Up until two days ago I was engaged to the man of my dreams. We had great plans for the future…for us…for a family. He had always been in Amway and he never actually worked at it until I pushed him to do it. I told him that if he was going to do it he should do it 100% or he would never see a profit, because he wasn’t seeing one. I challenged him that if he didn’t make a profit or see any prospect that he should quit or drastically cut back on the money he wasted on it. He agreed. Time came…no profit…he didn’t keep his promise.

  Lately, he became more and more distant from me. He wasn’t even himself anymore. He was hiding things from me and I knew he wasn’t happy but he could never put into words why. It was very comparable to someone addicted to drugs and hiding it from their loved ones. I comfronted him about my fears and he only shut me out. He turned me into his enemy. Everything I said was against him and against amway in his opinion. Every decision he made was based on amway instead of based on us.

  One night it got very bad and he randomly stated that he had bought tickets for an amway conference the day of our bridal shower. I know boys don’t usually go to the shower, but he had already promised me he would be there to help clean up afterwards and go through everything with me. I was excited. I knew there was a conference that day, but he promised me he would be there for me. He went behind my back and bought a ticket anyways. I explained to him that it was very hurtful and there would be other conferences, but only one memory of our shower celebrating us.

  He looked me straight in the face without any emotion and said he cared more about amway than he did my feelings.

  Now he says he can’t remember saying it, but he knows he did. This is the kind of mentality and addiction it has become for him. He regrets this action now, but he knows it isn’t exactly something you can just take back. He is sick…just like someone addicted to drugs. Only I don’t know how to help him with this addiction. We couldn’t even go on one date without him trying to contact our waitress/waitor. It consumed his every though like a crack addict desiring one more hit and doing anything to get it.

  I wanted to believe that amway was safe and it could be done in moderation. Hey, I liked the idea of retiring young too. I was there for him and supported him through it all. Now I see that it isn’t right. A half lie is still a lie and amway cannot be done in moderation. A gambler can’t just gamble a “little.”

  At this point I wouldn’t care if amway were possible and being a millionaire was only one contact away. I would rather be homeless than a millionaire and see someone I love so sick and not be able to help them.

  This is the result of amway in my life. I have to watch someone I love deeply be consumed by it and addicted to it and make nothing from it. I fear he will be like that for the rest of his life. It will never be enough. He will always need one more customer, one more prospect.

  He has been in amway 2 years…has no people under him…and no customers but himself and his mother when she can afford it. He did everything they asked, went to the meetings, listened to the cd’s, went out 3.4.5.6.even 7 times a week to contact.

• I even would take him back after everything if he could just give amway up. I tried to be reasonable and accomodating and let him do it as he pleased in moderation. All things in moderation…anything good can be bad if it consumes your life right? Well you can’t do amway in moderation that is what the cd’s and everything teaches…every person you meet is a potential client.

  I would do anything to have the real him back. I know what he said was hurtful, but I also know that it is the addiction talking, but he wont quit.

  I am afraid he will never see the light that it isn’t worth this. He is giving up his fiance and who is to say what is next. His friends…whom he has already lost many…his job as an accountant….his family?

• We upgraded anonymous’ comment to a full post. Thanks for sharing, anonymous.

  Please read and comment here:

  AMWAY Addiction Kills Marriage

  http://www.unhappyfranchisee.com/amway-addiction-kills-marriage/

• Anonymous: it’s so crazy to hear how similar your story is to my own. I signed my divorce papers on Tuesday because of what Amway has done to my ex wife. What you describe sounds like what I went through. What I’ve come to realize is there is almost nothing you can do to change the way they think as long as these so called Amway friends are keeping them going to constant meeting after meeting (brainwashing). The good news is that you aren’t married yet and if you don’t want to end up very unhappy I suggest you wait on marriage until he is either out for good because he is going to ruin your life emotionally and financially. I know what you are going through because I got married to whom I thought I was going to spend the rest of my life with and whom I was in love with. Things were beyond amazing! Amway came along and changed her so much that I don’t even know her anymore. She has so much hate in her and bitterness towards me especially on the topic of Amway. They are programmed to not trust anyone who is not a part of Amway. It is very sick and you really have 2 options. You can let him do his thing and hope and pray he gets sick of it, but from what they teach you this is something that could take 5-10years to make money or even longer. (but it’s worth it, they will say). I had the same agreement with my ex to give it up if she didn’t make any progress, which of course she didn’t but when the time came she said she was going to be in Amway the rest of her life. We even were going to marriage conselling to help with our situation, which they also suggested she give it up after so long. Well let’s just say she didn’t like the conselor anymore and we didn’t go back. Your other option would be to do what I did, either it’s me or Amway. Which is more important to you? You can see where the second option will most likely leave you, but the way I look at it is if some stupid business that you don’t make money in and become an annoying person no one wants to be around is more important that the one you supposedly love then go for it! I am recovering from it very well emotionally actually and financially as well. We lost $7000 in a year in Amway, but more importantly I lost someone I thought was my soulmate. The way I look at it is I am young, no kids, and I have a good job with a bachelors degree in accounting. I will bounce back just fine and I have been. I just hope she wakes up someday and realizes the mistakes she has made through all of this. Anyways I hope I helped you out somewhat. I know exactly what you are feeling right now and I am sorry people have to go through things like that. Just know you deserve to be Happy!

• People can, and do, get unhealthily obsessed with all sorts of things, exercise, sex, work, and yes, Amway.

  Talk to him about maybe getting couples counselling. You might also want to talk to some of his upline that you’ve met and express your concerns.

  Relationships are a two-way thing though. You say he’s been involved for “a couple of years” and doing “everything they asked”. That would most likely include going to this conference, and it probably would have been on the calendar for many months. Is it possible he might be upset that you booked your bridal shower at a time when you knew (or should have known) there was a conference on? That he feels you were ignoring something that was important to him? If he’s like many men he may not have communicated this to you at the time (and more importantly, at a time when it might have been possible for you to reschedule!), and instead bottled it up until it burned.

  Good luck in any case and I hope you can work things out.

• ibofightback-No I did not plan the bridal shower on the day of the conference…if I would have known yes it would have been a different day. No it was not on his calender for months he just found out about it after the shower was already planned and invitations sent out. I told him if he would have came to me about the conference that I probably would have been fine with him going if there was time to do both. The fact is he went behind my back about it. He is sick. Addicted to amway like many are addicted to crack. All he cares about is one more hit…one more conference…one more possible contact…one more possible customer. It will never be good enough. I feel sorry for you that you can’t even see that. I am afraid you are just as addicted as he is and don’t even know it.

  I would do anything to have my love back including couples counseling. However, I know it would be pointless. He has turned me into his enemy. I was willing to let him stay in amway. I went to the meetings with him, I went contacting with him. I was there comforting him when everyone turned him down, and he still felt I was the enemy. If you read DoAsISay’s post he also said he tried counseling and she turned the counselor into an enemy as well. I know the same would happen to me. If he turns someone he supposedly loves into an enemy I know he would do the same to a complete stranger. I know you will probably try an retort and say of course he would do that because I would probably choose a counselor who would be against amway. However, that is not true. He had his chance to have amway and me in his life and he couldn’t do it. He put amway first over everything in his life…me…God…friends…family. That is not healthy and it is what amway teaches everyone in amway to do.

  He is so addicted that not only did he turn me into his enemy about amway he turned me into his enemy in every aspect of his life. When anything went wrong it was always somehow my fault and I was the one with the problem. I know you cannot understand that, but it is reality. I only hope your eyes will be opened and see the real tragedy that amway is.

  DoAsISay-Thank you for your understanding. I am sorry for your loss as well. I know that God has a plan for me and you as well. I don’t know if faith is a part in your life, but it is the only comfort I have right now besides my family. Do you think there is hope for your x-wife? I keep hoping that I can save my person I love, but I don’t know how. There isn’t rehab for amway like their is for drug addicts, or is there? What can I do to help him? Even if he doesn’t want to be with me anymore I don’t want him to go through life missing out on life because all he can see is amway. He missed out on enjoying our whole engagement and gave up important memories because all he was focused on was amway. I don’t want to see him years from now missing out on other things even if it isn’t with me. I am so devoted to him and his well-being he can’t even see I only want the best for him. I don’t want to see him skipping his kids birthday parties and missing out on other things because where he is with amway right now that is exactly what he would do. I know you are hurting right now just as much as I am and I wish I had a way to help you, but I don’t see one.

• ibofightback- I also forgot to mention that you suggest I talk to his upline. Believe me I have thought of that also. I would talk to anyone to help him. However, I forgot to add that his upline quit only a few months after my fiance got involved…I mean my x-fiance, that is very weird to say… I have asked him many times why his upline quit and he would never tell me. I don’t even think he knows why except that his upline’s wife talked him into quitting. I think that is also why he was so quick to make me his enemy about amway because he thought my only goal was to make him quit like his upline and that simply wasn’t the case. His upline that quit wont even answer his phone calls anymore. I wish I had his phone number because I would love to have the oppurtunity to discuss things over with him. I will take any help I can get.

• anon,

  An upline extends for, in most cases, hundreds or even thousands of people, it’s not just one person. If you’re jointly members with him you can check out who your platinum is on amway.com

  With counselling it’s not unusual for one party to feel like the victim and act as if the counsellor is an enemy. A good counsellor should be able to deal with it, but it’s no always possible. The only way to move forward is to break that barrier down.

  That goes both ways of course, and you’ve declared “Amway” as the enemy. Understandable, but not particularly helpful if you want to save the relationship.

  Ultimately that’s the question – do you want to save the relationship? Does he?

  If he does, then consider asking him to contact me. He likely knows my website, he can use the form there. Despite your views on my “addiction” I haven’t been to a conference in a long, long time, let alone out contacting, prospecting etc. Just because I believe – and have experienced – that Amway can be a good business opportunity and offer a positive environment doesn’t mean I believe unhealthy behaviour can’t be connected to it. I believe exercise is a good thing too – but if it becomes too obsessive it can be damaging. Same with Amway.

  He may feel less threatened discussing issues with me, and I do happen to be trained as a psychologist. If I can help, the offer is there.

• ibofightback- I will let him know of your offer. Also, I did not make amway the enemy and it is unfair to say so because I was with him every step of his amway journey…lets call it a journey why not. However, I still do not feel he is capable of doing amway in moderation as his behavior has shown. As stated earlier a gambler can’t just gamble a little bit. I have worked with mental illness and have seen it many times. The individual is naive to believe they are strong enough to continue with their addiction in moderation. They do so and only fall back into the same consuming lifestyle. Maybe there are individuals in the world that can do amway in moderation safely, however, I believe that would be a very very rare individual as everything amway teaches in the cd’s and at the conferences etc is to be always thinking of amway and to always have “the dream” in mind. How can someone always being concerned at working towards this goal and not be addicted to it. I wanted to believe it was possible, but with all do respect I do not know that it is. I would prefer he speak to someone who would help counsel him out of amway for good and deal with that grief and loss in his life before he spoke to you. However, if you are my only option at this point I will accept your offer and extend it to him. Thank you.

• Just a minor correction, but the CDs and seminars he attends are not Amway CDs and seminars, they’re generally sold and run by 3rd party companies, of which there are many, and (a) the companies don’t all teach the same approaches (b) not all Amway IBOs use them. So it’s not Amway teaching the type of obsession you talk about.

• ibofightback- I don’t mean to pick at minor details, but I also find it strange that you even ask me if I want to save the relationship. If you read my previous posts I feel it is rather obvious. You have already pinned me as the overbearing, selfish, and unsupportive person in the relationship. Accusing me of planning the shower purposely on a date when I knew “or should have known” (as if I can read minds) when there was a conference.

  Also, as a credible trained psychologist that you claim to be I am wondering if you would ever counsel someone who was addicted to gambling to cut back? I would hope that you wouldn’t. You would tell them that they have to stop because of all the damage it was causing in there life. Why should amway be any different? Then you would help them to grieve over the loss in their life and help them to adapt to their new life.

  I should also mention that I even offered to him to just give it a rest for now and stop completely because of how severely obsessed he was with it. I told him it would be a good idea to take a break now and see how he felt. Then once he was back to his normal self if he wanted to get back into it slowly and see how he did then he could. I offered that as an option to help save us and he told me no…Also, I believe is evidence to how severely addicted he is.

• ibofightback- I never claimed that all cd’s and educational material were strictly amway. The majority are. Even so, they all teach similar mind sets.

• My apologies, I obviously wasn’t clear in my writing. I certainly did not even remotely mean to accuse you of “planning the shower purposely”, “overbearing” etc. I’m more trying to get inside your fiance’s head (and encourage you to do the same) to try and understand *why* he is behaving the way you describe.

  It’s incredible how many disputes arise out of unintended miscommunication.

  Regarding addiction or obsessive behaviours, even with gambling in depends on the individual and circumstances. Abstinence is sometimes the right approach, sometimes not. Research indicates that “controlled gambling” can be as effective (and even more effective, long term) than abstinence, and an abstinence only approach tends to prevent many problem gamblers from seeking or accepting help.

  “cutting back” would pretty much always be advised, yes, and if I was your fiance’s Amway upline I might advise the same thing with his Amway business. Far better to work less, but perhaps be more effective and be happier then it is to be obsessed, stressed, overworked, damaging relationships and getting no results.

  Sometimes less is more.

• re the cds, it’s unlikely your fiance has many CDs from Amway. Those that Amway does offer are almost exclusively product-focused. Indeed I’m looking right now and Amway North America offers a some total of 3 CDs at present –

  Show and Sell Disc 1
  Show and Sell Disc 2
  Ribbon Business Presentation

• anonymous:

  I would strongly urge you to reconsider any involvement with ibofightback.

  Read his comments here and elsewhere. He will twist and contort any argument to somehow justify Amway or discredit opposing opinions or anti-Amway views. I am just a reader and not part of his years-long feuds with other posters, but I think the guy’s bizarre (no offense, ibo). It’s entertaining to watch how he skillfully (sometimes) bends over backwards to defend Amway in any and all instances. I think he is a master manipulator with some unknown agenda.

  Again, no offense to ibofightback, but I think he is a weirdo. He spends (and has spent) tremendous amounts of time and energy battling to defend the reputation of a for-profit company, allegedly with no payment from the company and no serious financial stake as an IBO. Why does he do that? Does McDonald’s have a near-full-time unpaid advocate building blogs and battling for their honor across the Internet for no pay?

  As long as he’s going to campaign for no pay, why doesn’t he put this energy into campaigning against child hunger, say, or for human rights? Why is a sleazy for-profit company his charity? IMHO, I suspect either he IS somehow receiving compensation, directly or indirectly, for all his efforts OR he’s just a weirdo who has chosen to devote all his free time, passion and energy to defending the reputation of a for-profit, cultlike ponzi scheme.

  If true, the former option may be deceptive and possibly illegal, but at least sane and understandable. The latter option, if true, smacks of mental illness or at least dysfunction.

  ibofightback is NOT your only option. There are many trained professionals who deal with all kinds of addictive behavior, You don’t need someone trained in Amway. You need someone trained in addictive behavior.

  Going to ibofightback for help separating from Amway is like asking a bartender for help with an alcoholic because of his experience with alcohol.

  Asking ibofightback for advice on separating from Amway is like asking a drug dealer for help getting a crack addict.

  Asking ibofightback for advice on separating from Amway is like asking a pro-life activist for abortion information.

  Consulting ibofightback about getting away from Amway is like a couple asking a priest for advice on spicing things up in the bedroom.

  [Nothing personal, ibofightback. I think you are masterful at semantic gymnastics and debate. And some of my best friends are weirdos. Just stay away from people who are already victims of Amway before you do further damage.]

• Guest- you are probably right ibofightback may only be bad news.

  ibofightback- I can already see that you wont be of any help after your last comment. Amway only has 3 cd’s?!?!?! Honestly, that is just completely false and ridiculous. I could probably find AT LEAST 100 cd’s in my x-fiances bedroom and car that are all about amway. They may not officially say amway on the front, but I have had to sit on long car rides listening to many of them and most are all people in amway talking about amway. Even if they don’t come directly from amway they are cd’s that either his upline or other amway affiliates have encouraged him to listen to and they are all about amway, amway, amway. He pays good money for them every single month too. To say there are only 3 is completely insane.

• “Regarding addiction or obsessive behaviours, even with gambling in depends on the individual and circumstances. Abstinence is sometimes the right approach, sometimes not.”

  You have no idea what you’re talking about, so shut up.

  Alcoholics Anonymous is by far the most effective program for dealing with addiction in history, having saved, no doubt, millions of lives.

  ibofightback, please go into an AA meeting this week and share with them your powerful insight on how addiction can effectively be mitigated by not quitting completely, removing yourself from the influence and the people who led you into the addictive behavior.

  Please tell them how they can quit in moderation, and just drink a little.
  Please tell them how they can still be around alcohol and go to bars.
  Please tell them how they can still hang around with their old drinking buddies, and still engage in their old patterns and types of conversations.

  Yes, please enlighten people with your powerful knowledge of addiction and your background in psychology.

  Bring a tape recorder so we can hear the sound of you being laughed out of the building!

• Guest, you should bother to read my blog and Amway Talk sometime. I have regularly criticise both Amway and the approaches of various Amway groups and or IBOs. Not so much lately as it’s improved significantly in the past couple of years.

  Personally I find it fascinating how ostensibly “independent” posters like yourself often question my motivations, but are silent on the motivations of “critics” like Joecool (and others) whose prolific anti-Amway output utterly dwarfs mine.

  I’ve done 3 blog posts this year. JoeCool has done 85 posts on just three of the anti-amway blogs he admits to.

  I’m also quite insulted that you think that 3 blog posts and occasional comments on a forum like this requires “near full-time” work and “tremendous amounts of time and energy”.

  Right now I’m sitting down at my desk only when it pings to notify me of a response to this thread, then it’s back to having fun renovating.

• Not to be selfish over here, but I am having a serious issue and you are turning this into an argument over how many cd’s amway has and how many posts you have to make in a year to be a full-time blogger. I feel the real issue here is being avoided.

• Guest,
  (1) Alcoholic’s Anonymous is actually not very effective at all. From Does Alcoholics Anonymous Work? The Results from a Meta-Analysis of Controlled Experiments –

  Attending conventional AA meetings was worse than no treatment or alternative treatment

  You may also want to review “ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS: CULT OR CURE?”

  Not to bash AA, they have some positive aspects and treatments and certainly help some people, but it’s nowhere near as effective as some might have you believe.

  A lot like Amway I suppose :)

• still being ignored over here….

• anon – I said the CD thing was a minor issue. Yes they talk about Amway and are primarily by people developing Amway businesses, but that’s not the same as being from Amway. I’m a registered Microsoft Partner. If I write or do something promoting Microsoft, that’s not Microsoft doing it, that’s me (or my company).

  It’s a relatively minor issue but I think an important one in order to understand the situation you are in.

  Regarding counselling, of course it’s better to get an independent party you can sit down together with. My offer was purely because of the previously expressed problem of your partner feeling the counseller was “the enemy”.

• ibofightback-Your comment about the cd’s doesn’t even make sense. They’re about amway but not from amway. Who cares about the technicality of it all. Bottom line is they are about amway and amway uses it for their advancement.

  You are still avoiding the real issue here.

  Amway=addiction (to my x)
  Crack=addiction

  Quit crack=no longer a crack addict
  Quit amway=no longer an amway addict

  Do crack “a little”=impossible, become a crack addict again in no time
  Do amway “a little”=impossible, become an amway obssessed person again

• ibofightback:

  You really do not want to take me on when it comes to Alcoholics Anonymous because I am way, way out of your league. My advice is STFU on the subject of addiction unless you want to continue being exposed and riduculed as the ass-clown you are.

  anonymous:

  What do you expect to hear from this psychologist/remodeler/ibo/Microsoft partner/ addiction expert?

  All he is interested in is deflecting blame off Amway. He doesn’t give a sh*t about you, your fiance, your marriage, etc. He will just nitpick incidental crap (The CDs aren’t technically produced by Amway… Who cares?…. Your fiance can do Amway in moderation… Why bother?)

  These Ambots are programmed to justify and defend, no matter what. Little white lies, exaggerations, justifications, manipulation is the same as breathing to them. Why even ask for his opinion… other than to marvel at the lengths they’ll go to justify their own little money-centered cult?

  Jeez, this guy will defend Amway and try to discredit Alcoholics Anonymous? Seriously? This guy is toxic to the naive, but to those with a brain he’s a great and comic example of the dysfunctional and diseased Ambot mindset.

• Guest,

  Oh yes, right, my apologies for using peer-reviewed academic research to support what I’m saying, rather than anonymous internet rants. But please, I don’t like to be wrong about something, so please supply some recidivism rate statistics so I can correct my view of AA.

  Anonymous,

  You’re unfortunately not just wrong about Amway, you’re wrong about crack as well. The vast majority of people who use crack do not become addicted (this blog has a nice summary and includes a link the source research.

  There are plenty of people who “do Amway” in a non-obsessive manner, indeed I think it’s probably the norm. Having said that, high level success in any business (indeed most endeavours) requires you to be a bit obsessive at least some of the time. For anyone interested I recommend Malcom Gladwell’s book “Outliers” and Heidi Grant Halverstons’ “Succeed: How We Can Reach Our Goals” for some good coverage of the research in the area. The second book, incidentally, offers some good insights in to how the approach some people take to Amway is likely to not only lead to failure, but alienate people on the way.

• Anonymous,

  I can help you.
  Email me at [redacted]

• Sorry I can’t post often as I would like as I am working and typing from an iPhone. From what I have read (anonymous) Ibofightback is what guest has said either crazy or being compensated by Amway for defending them. Why would anyone devote that much time to a company if they didn’t have some stake in it? Unless of course it’s for a non profit org or a good cause. With regard to your question about faith, yes I am fairly new in my faith and have been struggling since separation. I do still believe there is a chance for us to get back together, but I don’t plan on waiting around for that chance to come. She is “stuck” in Amway with little chance of getting out. I highly suggest and I think you already know this, but disregard 99% of what IBOfightback says as he is a manipulator of truth. His ultimate goal is to keep people involved as much as possible with Amway and will go to almost any length to do so. If you ever need to talk to someone who will give you their best honest advice and answers, I am hear to listen as I know what you are going through and if I can help one person who had a relationship destroyed by Amway I will feel satisfied. You can email me at [redacted] if you need anything. I will try to get back to you ASAP.

• Thank you tex and doasisay, I will e-mail you.

  IBofightback- I have already said I believe there may be select and very very very few individuals who can be involved in amway…and heck maybe even crack idk and i don’t care to research it either…without being addicted. However, my x-fiance is not that rare individual as his behavior has shown. Therefore, I do not care about those “supposed other people” although I find it hard to believe they exist. I care about my x-fiance. I know him…you don’t. I know that his personality does not lean him to be someone who can be involved in something like amway and not let it take over. I care about him, not the other people.

• IBOFightback is a shameless Amway defender. He will go to any length to defend Amway. He doesn’t seem to believe his own eyes about these Amway Motivational groups that deceive and take advantage of people. These groups such as Network 21 or WWDB basically brainwash their downline and the result is you have these Amway zombies who will give up relationships or skip their brother’s wedding in the name of attending some Amway conference. These kinds of testimonials are all over the internet and they keep popping up despite some claims that these things don’t happen.

  IBOFightback should not be trusted unless he is willing to he held personally accountable for the outcome. While he claims to defend Amway pro bono, you have to wonder what possesses him to do so. It doesn’t appear that he has any demonstrable level of success in Amway so that contributes to his puzzling loyalty to defending Amway.

• DoAsISay – let me turn it around – why are you spending so much time posting here, including spreading outright lies about me? Seriously, how much time do you think I devote to this?

  anon – I suspect any concerns over obsession might be alleviated if he was actually making money from it? Ultimately if he’s doing all this stuff and not getting results then he needs to change something, and that solution can indeed include not doing Amway. Contrary to DoAsISay’s lie, I think Amway would be much better off if people in the situation you describe were *not* pursuing it. Heck, I’m not pursuing Amway because I’ve had other priorities I wanted to pursue, many of which were to do with my private life and I didn’t think building an Amway business is/was the right thing at the time. That’s fine, it will still be there if and when I decide to get involved again.

• oops, sorry for the broken link, feel free to fix, admin!

• There have been nearly 700 comments on this thread, both pro- and con- Amway. Yet there is not a single IBO – including Ibofightback – who says they are getting a solid, meaningful and consistent return on their investments of time & money devoted to Amway. All the excited newbies who came on here reciting the cliches and slogans in their freshly learned Amspeak (remember Shekhar?) have all gone silent, as they all do when they finally realize that being a greeter at Walmart is more lucrative (and provides a higher social standing) than being an Ambot. Unfortunately, many have to lose friends, relationships and sometimes marriages before they get out of it.

  ibofightback has provided a great example to DoAsISay and anonymous, as he shows how these Ambots work. He will say anything, no matter how ludicrous and irresponsible (AA isn’t effective, crack is not addictive, Amway CDs aren’t from Amway, etc.) to try to obscure the damaging effects of Amway. Nothing matters but that.

  See how hard he works to sound smart and logical, referring to books he’s probably never read, acting as if a Google search and link to a study is a substitute for common sense or life experience. Rational people readily see through these transparent ploys, but they work on those who are desperate to believe. Ambots give the desperate wanna-believers the tools they need for self-delusion, just like other cults.

  ibofightback has made the case better than anyone that your loved ones need to be quarantined from these Ambots, AmZombies and the toxic tools they use.

  I think if you lay down an ultimatum that it’s You or Amway – and they hesitate for more than a moment – you need to move on. They’ve been infected too deeply and if they are too delusional to differentiate between Amway and real life, they are probably too damaged to accept help.

• Talk about “brainwashed”! I make certain claims *and support them by posting links to peer-reviewed published literature*, and you simply discard them as “ludicrious and irresponsible” and no “substitute for common sense or life experience”

  Crack isn’t addictive for most people who try it
  AA isn’t effective for most people who try it
  CDs published by companies that aren’t Amway aren’t published by Amway

  So sorry that reality just doesn’t gel with your hard-earned beliefs, but you’re just going to have to live with it.

  But you won’t, you’ll just continue to do what you’re doing here, dismissing anything you disagree with, no matter the evidence, for nor more than the reason you don’t believe it.

  That’s likely why people like Shekhar don’t bother. Why should they? To have people keep telling them that red is blue?

  Let me guess … you’re a global warming denier as well?

• IBOFightback would have you think that Amway IBOs actually make money despite clear evidence showing that they don’t. Amway’s average IBO income is dismal and doesn’t factor in business expenses.

  Also, if you like paying premium prices for generic products, then Amway is for you!

• Ibofightback is kind of right in the sense that Amway doesn’t provide the CDs. Your right that the organizations are making these CDs, but they are making them in order to promote Amway. So if they are doing this in a wrongful manor, Amway should step in and do something about it. Also the only reason these CDs exist is because you don’t make any money selling Amway crap. The real money is made from selling the “motivational” CDs and crap that suck people into dumping all their hard earned money into the pits of Amway hell. Now flip it around Ibofightback and after you do I will be excluding myself from this blog to do more constructive things with my life such as helping a woman eith the pain of losing her fiancé to Amway.

• (1) Amway implemented an accreditation system for BSM (business support material) providers a few years ago, and has since further tightened their controls. They *have* stepped in and done something about it
  (2) plenty of people make money selling Amway products
  (3) even Dexter Yager is on record (60 minutes interview) as saying he makes more money from Amway than from his “tools” business. I’ve separately published average “tool” income from the world’s largest BSM provider on my blog, and the averages are significantly lower than average incomes from Amway at the same pin levels. Do some make more from tools than Amway? Sure, particular in setups like TEAM had, with a strategy that meant lower Amway income and over-promotion of tools that meant higher tool income. Is it the norm? No.

• IBOFigtback wrote an article that Amway accreditation is a joke:

  http://www.thetruthaboutamway.com/amway-global-accreditation-transformation-or-a-sad-joke/

  IBOFightback backpeddles like a clown on a unicycle at times though.

  Plenty of people make money selling Amway products? What is plenty, given many IBOs self consume primarily. I bet many more IBOs lose money than the “plenty” that make money selling products.

• (1) do you know what a question is joecool?
  (2) are you even aware of the further changes that have occurred since that article was written 3.5 years ago? There’s been at least 2 further incarnations of the accreditation program. It’s quite a bit different now (including some factors I *don’t* agree with
  (3) I thought I was supposed to be brainwashed and never critical of Amway?

• Yes, a question for you is why can’t you be honest?

  So what if accreditation was changed? That means nothing to IBOs who got ripped off and had their inquiries to Amway ignored.

  You are brainwashed. You question my motives. I post to help give people informed information instead of the propaganda issued by the AMOs.

  Why do you defend these unethical folks? Says a lot more about you than me.

• got nothing left but ad hominems, huh Joecool?

• IBOFightback is a shameless Amway defender. He will go to any length to defend Amway and the Amway tool groups. . He doesn’t seem to believe his own eyes about these Amway Motivational groups that deceive and take advantage of people. These groups such as Network 21 or WWDB basically brainwash their downline and the result is you have these Amway zombies who will give up relationships or skip their brother’s wedding in the name of attending some Amway conference. These kinds of testimonials are all over the internet and they keep popping up despite some claims that these things don’t happen.

• I suppose that qualifies as an answer ;)