IS AMWAY A SCAM?
Is AMWAY a Scam? See what former Amway IBOs have to say below. Add your own opinion about Amway.
Have you ever had a good friend or close relative join AMWAY (Mary Kay, Herbalife, Quixtar, Meleleuca, Shaklee, USANA, nuskin, or other mlm, multilevel or network marketing scheme) and suddenly become the annoying sales zombie from hell?
The question came from a comment left on the post “IS AMWAY A GREAT BUSINESS OPPORTUNITY?” thirstyfox claims that Amway/Quixtar is a cultlike scam that makes everyone annoyed with her deluded sister:
My sis was in it once, wasted all her time and in the end made little or nothing.
She got back into it recently against everyones advice. It’s like a cult that turns you against your family so you don’t listen to them. Now she has no time for family, just scamming strangers and wasting her time away with unfullfilled dreams.
The constant meetings are to keep you brainwashed. It’s all a scam and she knows it herself now as she tries to get others in “under her.” Hard to see her as a Christian anymore when she does this, and it’s sad to see all the time she loses when she could be raising her kids.
I’ll never understand how she could be so stupid. I asked her why she got in it last time and she said of course money. Then I asked her what she got out of it and she replied defensivly “I met a lot of very interesting people!” I think that about says it all and if it didn’t work for my sis it won’t work for anyone.
All the BS they tell you about how well this that and the other person did or is doing is all lies so they can get your money. 98% of all Quixtar products are sold ONLY to stupid Quixtar members themselves, yet they go around saying they own a business???
Don’t give them a second of your time.
What do you think? Does Multi-level “Network” Marketing consists of stupid, annoying members selling worthless stuff to other stupid, annoying members? Share your MLM story below.
ARE YOU AN AMWAY IBO OR FORMER AMWAY IBO?
DO YOU THINK AMWAY IS A SCAM?
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Read more on Amway:
AMWAY Addiction Kills Marriage
I’ve been doing Amway for 6 months now, and still I have no complaints. There’s no quota for me to meet, so if there is a month where I don’t feel like moving my business forward – no problem!
On the other hand, I’ve been receiving an average of $60 a month in bonuses – excluding any quick profit I make from selling energy drinks at my job.
Amway is legit if you’re not a dumbass with your money.
“aparent” – did you actually read what your wrote? You said “you shouldn’t have to pay someone to make money”, ie the $50 to Amway for membership – for which they provide a lot – and then suggested instead franchises, where you pay thousands and even millions of dollars!
“ibofb” did you actually read what “aparent” wrote? He never “suggested” anyone should buy a franchise, he said “if your going to pay for working” they would do better if they bought a franchise or a real business with real customers.
This is one of the things that repulses me about Amway how smarmy the Amway people are about twisting words to deceive. Ibofb tries to make aparent look stupid but really just exposes his own smarmy word twisting dishonesty.
Another thing is that Amway people treat their own purchases as sales. Could you imagine a restaurant owner saying it’s ok he has no customers because he’s eating there for free?
Eric roldan wrote “Amway is legit if you’re not a dumbass with your money.”
If you joined Amway it’s too late. You’re already a dumbass with your money.
Anon, what aparent effectively said was if you’re going pay for a business you’d be better off paying thousands or even million instead of $50, refundable.
Defend it more if you want, you’ll just make yourself look more foolish.
ibofb:
Please adjust your mask to perhaps improve your reading comprehension.
The point was not simply to spend more money (obviously) but that if one wants to go into business and is willing to pay for a program and guidance, one would be better going into a real business, with real customers, like educated grown-ups do, and not waste time and energy with a pseudo-business opportunity cult run by a bunch of weirdo losers who engage in mutual mass delusion and rah rah motivational jerkoff sessions.
You guys are like the high school dungeons and dragons role playing club. Most people regard Amway IBOs as super annoying self-deluded losers to be avoided at all costs. Please hang up your mask, stop embarrassing yourself, and stop tarnishing The Princess Bride. Even the Dread Pirate Roberts would admit that he was just a character in a fairy tale. You spend your days trying to convince imbeciles, cretins, the damaged and the desperate that the Scamway fairy tale is real.
Want to own a business? Start a real business.
“I’ve been receiving an average of $60 a month in bonuses – excluding any quick profit I make from selling energy drinks at my job.”
Eric: What kind of job do you have that you can sell energy drinks?Are you selling to co-workers or customers?
What employer would allow an employee to sell overpriced unhealthy crap at their place of business? It’s likely your jeopardizing your real job (at a real business, I assume, not an MLM club) by selling canned chemicals and definitely hurting your reputation whether you see it or not.
It should be noted that ibofb is the most prolific Amway defender on this planet. But try asking him what his Amway business looks like? 100 PV? 300PV?
He enjoys twisting words and anecdotal stories to make Amway look good but all the evidence you need to know is that the average IBO, excluding people who “do nothing” is $115 a month, and that average includes the Amway diamond millionaires. Another telling fact is that less than 1% of IBOs ever reach the gold/platinum level where you start to earn (about) the equivalence of minimum wage.
Oh poor anon. Is there anything more pitiful than a childish rant accusing other people of juvenile behaviour? I could almost see you pouting.
A real business with real grownups huh? Well, I know a guy with a business that have revenues in excess of $3 billion dollars, and 7 figure net profits.
I suppose since it’s an Amway business it’s not a real business, so no business taxes? Will you speak on his behalf to the IRS? They’ll take you seriously of course ….
Amway, (incl Amway IBOs who treat it that way) is a real business, with real products, and real customers.
I already have other non-Amway businesses, including working on two new startups and evaluating a third. Previously founded, built and sold several others for a profit. What’s your business experience, “anon”?
For that matter, what’s your Amway experience? A global survey by the University of Westminster found that people who had actually bought and used products from direct sales companies (including Amway, which was one of the companies included in their survey) overall had *positive* views of both the products and distributors. The people with overall negative views were the ones who relied almost entirely on hearsay.
You know … hearsay …. like reading yours and joecool’s rubbish on the internet.
I believe one of ibofb’s startup businesses is MLM companies or something similar,
It’s amwazing how ibofb supposedly has all this experience but cannot discern that the Amway opportunity, where less than 1 in 100 people actually make money, is a poor opportunity.
ibofb’s only confirmed level of success is 100 PV, as far as I know.
Hearsay is ibofb’s anecdotal stories. Amway’s own numbers reveal that it’s a poor opportunity.
Sorry, I meant oneof ibofb’s start up companies is reputation management of MLM companies, or something similar. Not sure who would hire him though, seeing the poor job he does in defending Amway. :-) (Note the smiley?)
See, more hearsay BS from joecool, who seems to think that just because he believes something, ipso facto – it must be true!
Even when people who are obviously going to be better informed tell him it’s not.
Quote: “Eric roldan wrote “Amway is legit if you’re not a dumbass with your money.”
“If you joined Amway it’s too late. You’re already a dumbass with your money.”
ROTFLMAO! :-)
Sorry ibofb, I didn;t “make it up”. you did:
http://network21amway.blogspot.com/2011/04/truth-about-amway.html
david steadson said…
4. A year or more ago I considered starting a company to provide reputation management services to direct selling companies. I believe(d) there was a market for such services and most companies were doing it poorly. A mockup website was created but never finished (hence the amount of “lorem ipsum” text in the site) and the concept was never proceeded with. The company was never formed, never marketed, and never had any clients. The sites and names are now a division of another company I part-own, which has nothing to do with direct sales, and will be focused on internet community building.
April 26, 2011 7:11 PM
I am not at all surprised to find you interpret “A mockup website was created but never finished … and the concept was never proceeded with. The company was never formed, never marketed, and never had any clients” as – ” oneof ibofb’s start up companies is reputation management of MLM companies”
Just more evidence of either (a) your inability to read or (b) your inability to be honest.
Or I suppose possibley (c) both of the above.
Which I guess means you didn’t read and understand that article I directed to you about linking to defamatory information being considered as publishing the defamatory information.
Before you talk about defamation, you should go clean up your own website. I would have a field day going quid pro quo with you and Bridgett Baron.
For prospective IBOs, these are Amway issued snippets:
The average IBO earns $115 a month. IBOs who “did nothing” were not included in this count. This $115 represents gross income and includes Amway millionaire diamonds.
About .5 (one half of one percent) of IBOs reach the Gold/Platinum level where you earn approximately (gross income) the equivalent of full time minimum wage earnings.
And remember, these are Amway facts, not my opinion or experiemce.
Why Do U Guys Look For A Fight About Amway Look i believe Amway Is Not A Scam And Everyone Who Defends It Make Their Good Solid Point But Im Not Going To Trash The Other Side Even Tho they Dont (or Refuse To) Understand..But Let It Go People Do Make Money From Amway Its Perfectly Legal, And HAve Been Credited By Kurt Warner The Football Player,Amway Has its own sports and entertainment venue The Amway Ceter In Orlando, and Major Companies Like Best Buy Who Is Partnered With Them So Those Who Are On The Amway Site Can Go To The Best Buy Or W.e Website And Buy Something And The IBO will Get their poins or w.e.. I Have Never Seen Or Heard An Amway Person Said..”Hey Quit Your Job And Come Work For Me You Can Have A Chance At Making 150,000 Soo U Dont Need A Part-Time Job”. No Obviously Because Its Meant To Be A Second Income But Eventully Hopefully A First And Hopefully…Everything Takes Time Someone Could Still Making 45 dollars a month while that person under him is making 600 dollars thats what makes it legal that theres money flowing up and back down and Yea If u Want more money ure going to want more people but u can still MAKE income on ure own..Its like people said u just got to control the money and i actually tried the energy drink and other stuff and its actually pretty good and some of their stuff are really CONCERTRATED or ORGANIC like they say..Like I Said I See Where Both Sides Come in But Honestly Dont Give Amway Ibos a hardtime like let them do what they want to do and you do what u want to do if they if they make millions Great If Your A Doctor And U Make Millions Great! Dont Worry About EachOther!! The Only Thing That Should be Here On This Post Are Real Amway People And Not Ouside People..Whether Its Someone Who Still Works For Amway Or A Retiree/Someone Who Quit So They Can Give All The Facts Or What They’ve Been Told..
Eric Roldan and Ibofb – So you’re telling me that your safety net, in case anything was to go south, is a $50.00 refundable membership fee? That sound like you trying not to be fully honest about what you’ve really spent. I say this since the person, trying to get me to join this reconstructed pyramid scheme, told me something else. I guess I can sum that up to “he’s just new” and didn’t get to the meeting about half truths yet. I was told the membership fees were $185ish and have a “website” ($25 a month) I have yet to find.
Eric Roldan – So the job in which you sell your energy drinks, did you pay them too when you were hired? I’d also like to know when you said “On the other hand, I’ve been receiving an average of $60 a month in bonuses – excluding any quick profit I make from selling energy drinks at my job.” Is that you total monthly profit from this venture? If so I don’t see how that’s something to use as a “pro” in getting people to agree. I see that as being enough to go into gas so you can pick up and haul the energy drinks and other products to potential customers. I am curious, how much time do you put in to this normally?
Ibofb – I realize what I wrote in the end may have been a little confusing so I will clarify – When I said they would be better off getting a franchise, I meant something in which the company ALREADY had costumers i.e. McDonalds for one. At least with something like McDonalds they already have a customer base and you don’t have to go to everyone you know trying to sell them stuff they probably don’t need. My understanding is when you have a business you have some kind of niche so customers would come to you right?
“ I already have other non-Amway businesses, including working on two new startups and evaluating a third. Previously founded, built and sold several others for a profit.”
So why would you sell a good business? Can you tell me what Amway sells specifically, and what your businesses do?
As far as I’m concerned I still say if you want to spend money like that you’re better off getting a degree so you can move up or on from where you’re currently at. Not to metion the fact that most people qualify for assistance with school. There is not nor will there ever be a way to get rich quick, except, for the people that swear they know how and sell you a book or DVD of common sense tip. I’ve seen thousands of these and always thought why would someone by information? This idea is a pipe dream just like winning the lottery. Can either of you honestly tell me what you expect to get out of this venture? I’m asking what you were told as far as how long it will take for you to be able to make this worthwhile.
Anon on August 12th, 2011 7:22 am Thank you, I’m glad I didn’t have to explain what I said to at least one person. I find it interesting though that two different people read the same post and understood two different things.
“This idea is a pipe dream just like winning the lottery.” ~ aparent
For anyone who’s not sure what selling a pipe dream looks like, it looks like this:
“I know a guy with [an Amway] business that have revenues in excess of $3 billion dollars, and 7 figure net profits.” ~ibofb
As you all will notice, Amway people love to talk about how much their friend or “this guy I know” makes but get all defensive when asked what they make. None of the Shekhars or ibofbs will ever say take a look at my check from last month, suckers!
If there’s a guy you know who brought in 3 billion it just shows how much deluded dreamers are willing to donate in pursuit of their pipe dreams.
Anon – exactly, I see that too. “One person is racking in the big bucks, if can they I can too with having to do no work.” When I told our friend that we had no time or money, I got a resopnse back that sounded like ” Yeah, ok, I understand” Then pitch pitch pitch. If you seem to have to sell the company more then your “Products” then there is a problem.
BTW everyone I looked up some stuff and found this website:
http://www.ftc.gov
I just typed in Amway and found plenty of complaints and lawsuits. Anyone for can feel free to check it out too, I still feel something’s not right even more now with this site. I also went to the BBB and most of the listing were titled as Multi-level marketing. WTF! That just sounds like more BS.
All in all, I’m not here to change anyones mind, I just want to speak mine. I could really care less if someone really wanted to join this venture, it thier choice. I just want it to be known – if you’re trying to sell something over and over to the same person that keeps saying “no” you may want to respect that or you’re going to be in a situation where everyone just avoids you. Just start to take no for an asnwer, you could become worst then the annoying telemarketers.
The bottom line is Amway is a scam. Here’s the first thread of my blog, feel free to visit to find more information:
The Case Against the Amway Tool Scam!
ARE YOU A MEMBER OF THE PRESS, LAW ENFORCEMENT, LEGISLATURE, OR DO YOU KNOW SOMEONE WHO IS? CONTACT ME AND WE’LL BLOW THE LID OFF OF THE AMWAY TOOL SCAM!!!
Did you know you can translate this site into dozens of other languages? Just click this link click on the link in the middle of the next page, then select your language from the drop down list at the top! HAPPY BLOGGING! ITS A SMALL (BLOGGING) WORLD, AFTER ALL, IT’S A SMALL (BLOGGING) WORLD, AFTER ALL,…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxvlKp-76io or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIabgPX14R4 or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_z_aoKufv0 LOL!!!
Introduction
Welcome to THE Amway blog that represents the equivalent of the EIB made famous by someone I have a LOT of respect for, Rush Limbaugh. I trust he will allow some flexibility to borrow the initials EIB (Excellence In Broadcasting) and reuse the initials to stand for Excellence In Blogging. In fact, just like Rush, I can successfully debate other bloggers, as well as the “best and brightest” from Amway, with half my brain tied behind my back, just to make it fair. Not with Rush’s Golden Microphone (although I can do with with any microphone, telephone, loud speaker, or no sound equipment at all), but with my Golden EIB Keyboard.
Notes to Amway’s scumbag legal team protecting the Amway Tool Scam:
1. One of the things Rush states is you have to listen to him for at least 6 weeks to get a feel for the show. Similarly, you have to read this blog over a similar period of time to get a feel for the satire and sarcasm. Taking individual posts in isolation and trying to make a point in court or elsewhere, particularly by focusing on a portion of a post, such as a headline, will no longer score you legal or any other types of points, as this blog must be consumed in larger portions in order to be digested properly.
2. ANY references to violence in my communications, whether on this blog, other blogs, emails, verbally, etc., are NOT meant in the physical/literal meaning, unless clearly stated otherwise.
3. ANY reference to a potential sexual act is meant in the pejorative sense, not the sexual/physical act meaning, unless clearly stated otherwise.
We now return to our regularly scheduled Amway Tool Scam criticism, and what you will find here is an accurate, fact-filled, engaging, intelligent, thought provoking discussion, as well as including, at no extra charge, an ample supply of humor and satire. I compare it to a traffic circle in Europe, with cars flying around, entering, exiting, and seemingly at first glance a disorganized mess. In reality, it is organized chaos. However, just like listening to Rush, if you stay and learn, your opinion will be forever changed. Unless you’re stupid, then you’ll stay stupid! LOL
Above all, this site is specifically designed to be an ongoing and advanced course in Amway Tool Scam studies, with the “101” course below. Also – don’t…doubt…me.
So hang on tight, learn, ask questions, make comments, etc.
Notes:
1. Be sure to get the latest information regarding the frivolous/SLAPP civil lawsuit Amway has against me, here’s my counter lawsuit for FRAUD:, and here’s some information regarding the original lawsuit from Amway, where they were stomped on during the August 2010 TRO (Temporary Restraining Order) hearing: (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation for a definition of SLAPP) .
2. The post date has been modified to maintain this thread at the top of the blog.
3. Scroll down to find a new thread.
4. See the “TALK TO TEX” link to the left if you want to email or talk with me on the telephone.
Q: What’s with the above sign?A: The above “No Tool Scam” sign was taped in the front of the table I was sitting at when invited to attend a biennial Amway public relations meeting, along with 4 other IBOs, in Prague, Czech Republic in the spring of 2008. There were about 50-60 Amway PR employees from around the world attending, and during my 2 minute soapbox opportunity at this roundtable meeting to discuss how blogging has impacted Amway and business/society in general, I railed against the ATS. I have NOT been invited back….
MISSION:
The Net Profit Group’s Mission is to bring honesty, transparency, and openness to the Amway business, to ensure it becomes an ethical, moral, and legal business.
The PROBLEM:
Amway is a scam, and here’s why: Amway pays out as little money as they can get away with, so they support the higher level IBOs ripping off their downline via the tool scam.
As a result, about 99% of IBOs operate at a net loss, while the top 1% make several TIMES more from their Amway tool scam than from the Amway products. This was made illegal in India in 2005 and the UK in 2008, (see below for more information), but our FTC is unable to pull their heads out of their “backsides” to stop it here. I suggest you also forward the information to everyone you know, so they don’t get scammed.
The SOLUTION:
Amway needs to bring the following changes to the U.S.:
1. Force the upline LCKs (Lying Cowardly “Kingpins”) to reduce tool prices, as well as
2. Share major functions with all local IBOs.
A method to do this would be to sell a colored ticket to those in the LOS/LOA, and a different color to those outside the LOS/LOA. Allow the LOS/LOA IBOs to enter certain function sessions early to cover LOS/LOA specific information, then allow the others to enter 30-45 minutes later. Rich DeVos demanded the upline reduce their tool profit in 1983, but then did NOTHING to enforce the mandate.
LATEST NEWS
2/2/11 In a HUGE, almost $9 million turnaround, Amway is now settling the 12 year old lawsuit with the Morrison gang:
1/20/11 Even bigger news than from April 2010, it became known there was a December 28, 2010 judge’s decision to reject the proposed settlement, I have added my analysis here:
11/3/10 Pokorny proposed lawsuit settlement for $155 million: http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-11-03/ex-amway-unit-to-pay-155-million-in-suit-lawyers-say.html
4/21/10 This is HUGE news, the Pokorny/Blenn v. Amway/Quixtar LCKs and the tool scamming LCKs finally go to a real, open court:
The Earliest Evidence of the Amway Tool Scam
Rich DeVos made a series of recordings in 1983, called the “Directly Speaking” recordings. This was a double entendre, as today’s Platinum level IBO was called a “Direct” distributor back then. One of the recordings can be listened to, the other was transcribed, and both can be found here:
http://www.amquix.info/amway_directly_speaking.html Do a word search for “twenty”, and you will find Rich declares 20% is the limit on the tool profits allowed. He never followed up on this, and virtually NOTHING has happened to fix the problem….which brings us to the issue, how much DO the upline make on the tools? For this answer, see below.
The Real Amway Tool Profit Size
It has been well established the upline make several TIMES more from the tools than from Amway. First, “tools” and a couple of other terms should be defined. Tools refer to anything besides money used to buy Amway products that create profit for the upline. This includes money used to buy tickets for the Open, monthly Seminar, and Major Functions, the CD/DVD’s and other audio/visual content, whether hard copy or online, books, voice mail, web sites, etc.
There are numerous sources of the above statement, including but not limited to:
1. Former Executive Diamond, on his very own blog recently: http://orrinwoodward.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2008/7/2/3773065.html#comments see post Thu 03 Jul 2008 12:51 AM EDT (Update: Orrin’s late 2010 settlement with Amway included him removing lots of content, including anything that put Amway in a bad light, no matter how accurate it may be. Therefore, the above link no longer works. However, yours truly made a copy of the statement before it was taken down:
http://orrinwoodward.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2008/7/2/3773065.html#comments
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Amway Australia Letter to IBOs
by Orrin Woodward on Thu 03 Jul 2008 12:51 AM EDT | Profile | Permanent Link
Anonymous, Not at all. If you read my Quixtar history link off to the side, it will give a fairly detailed history of my involvement with Amway and Quixtar and my upline. I qualified diamond in 2000. Missed qualification in 2001 – the year Chris and Terri qualified. Qualified founder diamond in 2002, EDC in 2003 and 2004. 2005 qualified founders diamond and 2006 and would of been 2007 EDC again. I made between 300k and 600k every year after 2001. My income in MonaVie in a couple of months has been higher than any single year in Amway/Quixtar. Another example of why Amway is not competitive. I received 400k in bonuses after 2 months in MonaVie and that does not include the free Mercedes, free trips to Zermatt ski resort, Disney World, 14 day Meditteranean cruise, and 12 person Penthouse Suite in Atlantis. Laurie and I also qualified for over 60 hours of jet credit hours on the MonaVie jet credits program. I won’t have to fly commerical again for quite a while!! Oh and yes the tool incomes were 4 to 5 times higher than the Amway bonuses for all emeralds and above, but in MonaVie the tool side is 50% or less of our MonaVie bonus. If the bonuses go higher then we lower the tool prices even further than the 33% drop we already have reduced them. Now you know why I worked on the board for 3 years to fix this and get Amway to pay their leaders a reasonable amount for the incredible work involved! Now let’s see if David fightback will be truthful and accurate. thanks, Orrin
Reply
2. Former Diamond Don Lorencz, a statement archived from his very own blog: http://web.archive.org/web/20051124194000/http://donjlorencz.texerta.com/
3. A group, commonly known for one of the Emeralds involved, Joe Morrison, tried to split from their upline tool system, and got put out of business by the upline threatening anyone who speaks for the Morrison group to be “uninvited” to any speaking opportunities with Yager. Why would all of these IBO’s give up their entire business if the tools were not THE major source of profits? The lawsuits themselves indicate most of the profit for the higher pins is from tools. If incorrect, I believe the plaintiffs could be charged with a variety of legal violations: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/morrison.htm
4. Here’s another one, from a former Direct Distributor (now known as Platinum): http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/hayden.htm
5. And another, from former Double Diamond Brig Hart, who is currently scamming his Mona Vie downline: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Amway/AUS/hart.htm
6. And another, from former Crown Ken Stewart: http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/stewart_v_gooch_comm.htm
7. Here’s the youtube video from Andy Andrews at a major function, while he was still an active IBO, and shortly before he was terminated: http://www.amquix.info/video/Andy_Andrews_quixtar_part1.wmv and http://www.amquix.info/video/Andy_Andrews_quixtar_part2.wmv. There are 2 key parts, both on part 2. At the 2 minute mark, Andy admits several times more is made from tools than from Amway, and a couple minutes later states Amway mandates only 2% of IBOs should make money from tools, and the other 98% shouldn’t even know there is an opportunity to make money from tools. Can YOU say FRAUD??!?
8. One more, from former Diamond Bo Short (the transcript and video links from the 2004 Dateline show are below):
http://web.archive.org/web/20060207071939/msnbc.msn.com/id/4375477/
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-215989802739458876
9. Read every link on this page for a full understanding of the size and scope of the Amway Tool Scam:
http://www.amquix.info/shs_v_alticor-complaint.html
Which says in part, “41. On knowledge and belief, the Amway kingpins’ tool and function income grew to vastly exceed their income from the Amway business by
a ratio of nine-to-one or more. And the profits they derived from tools and functions amounted to many, many millions.”
10. Not to mention an obviously perplexed Michigan judge, who was incredulous (it’s called perjury, but as this information wasn’t the focus of the lawsuit and would be difficult to prove, they’ll probably let it go) when Mr. Dickie, the CEO of Orrin’s tool company couldn’t even estimate how much Orrin and the other high level “leaders” made via the tools: (no longer available) http://www.freetheibo.com/pdfs/November-Judge-Sullivan-Opinion-Order-Quixtar-v-Woodward-not-contempt.pdf Here’s the testimony, where Mr. Dickie denied having a clue how much was made via tools: (no longer available) http://freetheiboblog.typepad.com/quixtar/files/october_17_court_transcripts.pdf
11. The developments in the UK, where the judge ruled the “voluntary” action taken by Amway in May 2007 to shut down all tool sales should be lifted, but ONLY if there is ZERO tool profit. I am not in favor of zero tool profit, as I believe in free enterprise, capitalism, and the profit motive. However, these terms have NOTHING to do with the upline referring to their IBO’s as “teammates”, “business partners”, and other similar terms, then lying (by omission) about making most of their money via the tools. See the ruling here, particularly paragraph 57c: http://www.amwaywiki.com/images/6/60/BERR_vs_Amway_UK_-_Judgement.pdf
and the IBOAI spin here: http://www.iboai.com/Quixtar-Info-News-QuixtarNews-Quixtar-Amway-Global-AmwayUK.asp
12. India has also taken strong action, severely limiting tool prices, as seen in the last few pages of this document: http://www.amway.in/Docs/roc_eng.zip and
discussed here:
13. Here’s a new story from http://www.blackhatworld.com/blackhat-seo/making-money/185451-can-we-sell-amway-health-productsonline.
html#post1671670 start with the March 31, 2010 7:36 p.m. post.
14. And another new story, where one LCK tried to sue another, and got slammed for a $5 MILLION judgment against him: http://www.amquix.info/amway_gala_britt.html I can probably come up with others, but these are adequate to prove my position.
FAQs
Welcome to the Frequently Asked Questions section! Type in any question you want answered below, and if it is considered an FAQ type question, I’ll address it.
You can find an FAQ by doing a key word search on this page.
————————————————————————————-
Q: If the ATS is so bad, why hasn’t the government shut it down yet?
A: We’re talking about the same government that didn’t shut down Bernie Madoff, despite his case repeatedly being served on a silver platter. I believe the FTC
is, in this order, incompetent, bureaucratic, and politically influenced.
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Q: Do you think tools should be free?
A: No, I think the tool prices should cover the production costs and provide the upline with a reasonable amount of profit. Rich DeVos indicated 20% of the Amway profit is his limit, I could go as high as 50%. The major point is the amount should be VISIBLE and should cover ALL tools, not just some of them.
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Q: I thought pyramid schemes, like Amway, are illegal, especially if a majority of the products aren’t sold to non-IBO/distributors?
A: No, see this FTC letter: http://www.marketwaveinc.com/FTC_Letter.pdf What the FTC does find objectionable is the “$10,000 pencil” scenario, where the new entrants buy a product one time, and depend on new entrants to fund their profit in like manner.
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Q: Why are the tools so profitable?
A: There are 4 major reasons.
1) The markup is very high. For example, full production costs of a CD is about $1, and they are sold for $6-8 dollars. Books can be purchased for far less than half the normal retail cost in bulk. Function costs are covered by a small number of attendees, the rest are pure profit.
2) Marketing costs are near zero, and the IBOs are a captive market, as the tools are promoted as THE shortcut to success (in reality, the tools ARE the “success”).
3) The payout is not shared with the downline, only Platinums and above, and
4) A significant amount of money is spent on the tools, which include various meetings, books, CDs, web sites, voice mail, etc., and not just “standing order” items, but also extra tools for prospecting, followups, having extras on hand in the event a downline’s business grows rapidly, etc.
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Q: But don’t the rules explicitly say the tools are optional, and the upline has to help an IBO even if they don’t buy the tools?
A: Technically and theoretically, yes and yes. However, in practice, there are several factors to consider, resulting in these rules having negligible impact. First, the tools are heavily promoted, the new IBO typically has never run a business, the upline is often a trusted friend, relative, workmate, etc., and is taught to transfer giving advice to the upline, as “they know what they’re doing,” and other statements, such as “they have the fruit on the tree,” etc. Also, the rules
require all tools shown to prospects to be approved by Amway, and the intricate, complex, and nebulous rules are difficult to understand for an experienced IBO, let alone a new one, PLUS it would probably take several MONTHS to get approval from Amway. Combine this with a new IBO not understanding the technicalities of all of the above, which would be required to buy prospect facing tools and NOT all the other tools, and you have a full fledged SCAM. By personal experience, and reviewing others’ comments on various blogs over the years, when an IBO stops ordering standing order tools, they immediately are no longer treated as a “best buddy,” but are COMPLETELY ignored by the upline. Contact Amway, you say? I did, they did NOTHING.
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Q: But doesn’t Amway have an arbitration process you can use to settle disputes?
A:Yes, and that process has been declared “unconscionable” and “illusory” by several U.S. Federal judges, including:
1. http://www.metnews.com/articles/2010/poko042110.htm (Pokorny)
2. http://www.mlmsurvivor.com/NoBSMAA.htm (Nitro/Judge Sweeney)
3. http://www.amquix.info/pdfs/morrison/Morrision_06-20138-CV0.wpd.pdf (Morrison)
4. http://www.amquix.info/shs_v_alticor_dorr.html (Nitro/Judge Dorr)
5. http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/a/amway/pennsylvania-court-denies-quixtar-arbitration-in-scheibeler-case/ (Scheibeler)
6. http://www.amquix.info/pdfs/simmons/simmons_order_arbitration.pdf (Simmons, and technically, this judge used the term illusory)
7. http://www.amquix.info/pdfs/Georgia_court_non_compete.pdf (Campbell)
If I missed any, please let me know by leaving a comment!
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Find Out If YOUR Upline Is Scamming YOU
IBOs often say, “But my upline isn’t like that, they even SHOWED me how much tool profit they make! In a word, BULLSHIT! There will always be exceptions, but here’s how you tell whether your upline is scamming you or not. It’s very simple, in breaks down into P&P. P&P stands for prices and practices.
1. Prices – How much do your CD/DVDs cost? Open meetings? Monthly seminars? Major functions? Voice mail? Web sites? Here’s the typical prices, so if yours are
similar, there’s only 3 options: First, and by far the most likely, your upline Emeralds and above make about what is described under the “Tool Profit Size”
section. Or, your upline is MUCH less efficient at producing the tools. However, for a typical $7 CD, full production costs are about $1, so even doubling the
production cost to $2 results in a $5, instead of $6 profit, so this option is HIGHLY unlikely. And here’s a guy who offers CDs for as little as 85 CENTS each (2010 pricing), I doubt there’s an LCK who can’t at least match him: http://www.marketwaveinc.com/viewproduct.asp?id=4 Lastly, the system OWNER may be keeping more of the profit for themselves, but then they are setting up their organization for a mutiny, in which case they would lose ALL of their revolting downline ATS profit. Here’s the typical prices: CD – $7, Open meeting $5, monthly Seminar meeting $25, Major Functions $125, web sites $10/month (some LOS groups charge less for CDs but more for their web sites, so watch out for this bait-and-switch within a bait-and-switch), voice mail $25/month.
2. Practices – Does your upline have everyone fly/drive all over the country to attend these meetings? This costs you thousands of dollars/year for the travel, hotels, meals, etc., and if the solution at the top of this post were enacted, this cost would come WAY down.
Why Amway or LCKs Do NOT Have a Prayer Suing Me
Since Amway has now sued me, supposedly for scaring off IBOs cheating on Craigslist, by telling them they are cheating, telling them about the tool scam, and referring to them as “fucking assholes,” why do I say Amway doesn’t have a prayer? Besides LOSING the Temporary Restraining Order on August 18th, why is this? Simple. What I say is true.
Here’s a couple of examples, relatively speaking, trite compared to the ATS, which resulted in lawsuits, or threats of lawsuits:
1. Was Jody Victor’s first wife was painted over in a portrait at Quixtar headquarters in Ada, MI? http://www.iboai.com/IBOAI-Info-News-IBOAINews-
ScottLarsenResponse4.asp
2. Here’s another one regarding the details of qualifications: http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/forum/viewtopic.php?
t=2684&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=jody+victor&start=45 see post Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:52 am
3. Here’s one related to a custom SA-4400 gross profit disclosure form: http://www.iboai.org/IBOAI-Info-News-IBOAINews-ScottLarsenResponse2.asp
So, you can easily see the LCKs are ready and willing to sue over a painting, some pots and pans, and a standard form, but when it comes to the mult-billion
dollar, multi-million IBO, multi-decade tool scam, the crickets are chirping: http://www.soundboard.com/sb/crickets_sounds_audio.aspx Listen to the audio
from various countries!
What Else Can We Do
I very much dislike whiners who don’t offer solutions. If you’re going to complain, offer a solution as well. Here’s what else we can do:
1. Do a google news search for popular and disgusting stories, the current ones I use are Tiger Woods and his sex-capades, and Bernie Madoff, as well as any stories containing the word “Amway.” Then add a canned message. Here’s the canned messages I add:
Who cares about Tiger? He should join Amway, as they also screw anything that moves, and have ripped off millions of people for several decades, to the tune of 10s of billions of dollars. Amway is a scam, and here’s why: Amway pays out as little money as they can get away with, so they support the higher level IBOs ripping off their downline via the tool scam. As a result, about 99% of IBOs operate at a net loss, while the top 1% make several TIMES more from their Amway tool scam than from the Amway products. This was made illegal in the UK in 2008, but our FTC is unable to pull their heads out of their butts to stop it here. Read about it on my blog, I suggest you start here: and forward the information to everyone you know, so they don’t get scammed.
If you think Madoff ran a huge scam, here’s another example that has ripped off millions of people for several decades, to the tune of 10s of billions of dollars: Amway is a scam, and here’s why: Amway pays out as little money as they can get away with, so they support the higher level IBOs ripping off their downline via the tool scam. As a result, about 99% of IBOs operate at a net loss, while the top 1% make several TIMES more from their Amway tool scam than from the Amway products. This was made illegal in the UK in 2008, but our FTC is unable to pull their heads out of their butts to stop it here. Read about it on my blog, I suggest you start here: and forward the information to everyone you know, so they don’t get scammed.
2. Post the time/locations of all meetings you know of in the comments below, including opens, monthly seminars, and major functions. This will allow local people
to show up and educate the prospects and IBOs attending with ATS information.
3. Contact the FTC, FBI, your state Attorneys General, county District Attorney, local law enforcement, the DSA, your U.S. and state senator/representative,
national and local media, etc.
4. Set up a conference call, by proposing a day/time in the comments below. The normal time for these calls is 8:00 p.m. Central time. The conference number is 760-569-6000, the access code is 975016#. Dial *67 before dialing the number to keep your number confidential. The only cost is your normal long distance charge to the above southern California area code, there is no extra charge for the conference call itself.
5. Here’s some info on upcoming N21 meetings: http://www.n21asia.com/meetings/search.cfm?RefId=SPe71033a9b2b And here’s efinity: http://www.myefinity.com/2010/04/150#comment-46380926 (you need to click on “Event Search”)
If you want to assist educating attendees regarding the ATS, feel free to put messages with this web site name and leave with the cars in the parking lot, hand to the attendees, and/or carry signs regarding the ATS. Ensure you follow local laws governing anything considered a solicitation, demonstration, or protest. Educate, disrupt, and destroy the ATS!
6. Be creative, and add other ideas below:
Glossary
ATS – Amway Tool Scam, the symbiotic relationship between Amway and the LCKs. When the LCKs asked for more of the Amway profit, Amway turned them down, but then ignored the FACT the upline was TOTALLY misrepresenting the business model by showing the marketing plan, yet leaving the ATS out of the presentation.
Directly Speaking – The name of the recordings made by Rich DeVos in 1983, in which Rich complained about the ATS, but then did NOTHING meaningful to fix. This is a double entendre, as the speeches were very direct talks, and the primary audience was the Direct Distributors. It should be noted most of these recordings have been destroyed, as this was the general order from the LCKs. However, two of these recordings, which address the ATS, are available here, one of them was transcribed, the other is still in audio format: http://www.amquix.info/amway_directly_speaking.html Also see IBO.
IBO – stands for Independent Business Owner. The former name, Distributor, is no longer appropriate, as IBOs do very little distribution, as all products are now shipped from Amway to every individual IBO, unlike the old practice of Amway shipping the products to the Direct Distributor (named because this individual worked “Directly” with Amway), and each of their personally sponsored distributors picking up their order from their Direct Distributor, then providing the products to their own personally sponsored distributors, etc., until all the products reach their intended distributor for personal use and customer sales.
LCK – Lying Cowardly “Kingpin”. For most groups, it starts at the Emerald level. There are actually 3 levels, the highest is LYING COWARDLY “KINGPIN” – the 20 or so owners of the large ATS companies. The next level is Lying Cowardly “Kingpins”, the midlevel, below the owners, but major Diamond and above pins, and finally the lying cowardly “kingpins”, the Emeralds and first level Diamonds. LCK also refers to IBOs, former IBOs, and Amway employees, specifically the ones who are familiar with the ATS, but do not actively speak out against it.
Platinum IBO – an IBO attaining 7,500 PV of volume, with certain time and width requirements. Formerly known as Direct Distributor, also see IBO.
Tools – ALL sources of profit for the upline from the downline, except for the Amway products. This includes, but is not limited to, books, CD/DVDs, the various meetings, (such as Open/ Opportunity meetings, monthly Seminars, Major Functions), websites, voice mail, etc.
ibofb
More content coming soon, in the meantime, see http://moneywatch.bnet.com/career-advice/blog/other-8-hours/why-you-should-join-amway/919/?tag=activemw#
comments comment #509. You can also do a word search for “steadson” on the same page to find more juicy information. ibofb/insider/david steadson (the man of many identities) is, by far, the most prolific LCS ATS supporter. He is a very intelligent fellow, but will use that intelligence in extremely devious ways. Below is a list of items, to give you insight into this character. I should point out I’ve been blogging against him since 2005, and he has kicked me off his site twice (he allowed me back on temporarily, then kicked me off again). I met him when we were both invited, along with 3 other IBOs, to the Prague, Czech Republic in the spring of 2008, to do a tabletop for 50-60 Public Relations Amway employees from around the world:
1. His ego is HUGE, here’s an example: When we were in Prague, somehow a discussion evolved into the temperature that degrees Fahrenheit and Celsius are the same number. Given my technical background and interest in mathematics, I knew the answer is -40 degrees. ibofb immediately and dismissively insisted it was not -40 degrees, but in that general area. I immediately knew he was thinking of degrees Kelvin, and restated it was -40, which is slightly offset from the Kelvin scale. He became agitated I would disagree with him, and again insisted in a blustery manner I was wrong. As I was not in a mood to interact with him, I dropped the discussion.
If you were an IBO within the past 4 years, and would like to recover your lost Amway Tool Scam money, contact me to join my lawsuit against Amway.
The more people who join, the greater profit each of us will make, so inform anyone else you know who qualifies about this opportunity as well. Sort of like network marketing!!!
ROFLMAO! See how goes like “aparent” and “anon” just love those straw men? Make stuff up about Amway and then argue against it as evidence that Amway’s bad!
Shall we just make up other stuff and use it as evidence Amway is good?
Where, aparent, did anyone ever saying anything about making money without work? The guy making millions spent decades building a business of that size. I’m not building an Amway business, so why do you think I should be making money?
Or is it a scam because you think you *should* be able to make money without working hard over time?
IBOFB: “Where, aparent, did anyone ever saying anything about making money without work?”
Any group that promotes the residual income and building it once apparently does so.
I’m fairly certain, based on the UK actions, that NETWORK 21 was doing this.
Working hard for years and years so that you’ve developed a business that might deliver a level of residual income is “no work”?
Really?
As for UK, you clearly didn’t bother following it. The case against N21 was dropped, and if you read the BERR case, and know the peoples whose names are mentioned, you’ll see why. The examples given of people making money? All were network 21. The examples of deception given? None were network 21.
But hey, since when did you let a little thing like facts get in the way of making a claim.
The case against N21 wasn’t dropped, it was inserted into the Amway case, which resulted in a requirement that ZERO profit be made by tools. Also, the ONLY known person who had to withdraw a written communication regarding the UK lawsuit was Jim Dornan, who is now dying of cancer. N21 pricing is similar to the other groups, and therefore the N21 Amway Tool Scam is similar as well. Less than 1% of the UK people were making a net profit. I doubt all of them were N21. List all the N21 people in the UK lawsuit making a net profit. You’re a proven liar, just give up your desperate attempts to continue to lie to others. But hey, since when did you let a little thing like facts get in the way of making a claim. See http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2007/05/amway_not_impressed_with_n21.php#comments comments for a copy of the letter and http://www.jimdornansjourney.com/2011/07/half-time-report/ for an update on Dornan’s condition. Perhaps he will gag on his own vomit during treatment and put himself out of his own misery. One can only hope.
The amway opportunity is a scam because as its basis they encourage distributors to sell to each other, where everybody is trying to profit off of everybody else. Mathematically this is impossible, as pure logic dictates that in order for a few people to make money in a closed buying network (i.e. “the pyramid”) more people would have to be losing money on not only buying overpriced products, but by purchasing the support materials/meetings as well. It’s failure by design is so obvious to anybody who has any type of business acumen. I wish I had done my homework on this “business” and used good old fashioned common sense before I finally woke up to this realization after being brainwashed for many years about what a financially lucrative opportunity it never was; that in order for a business to be successful, at least a majority of its revenue has to come from sources outside (meaning “retail consumers” who aren’t looking to profit from the business that they’re purchasing from) of the small group of income generators or profit makers of that business.
On a final side not to my fellow posters, please do not be critical of “Shekhar” – the poster from above. This individual has been brainwashed by both his upline and “the system” – as Amway being God’s gift to humanity – for him to make any sense of what he’s stating. I know, because I used to be just like him, and would always defend Amway to the death (metaphorically speaking) before I finally woke up to reality.
To ibofightback:
Your being critical of Joecool is way off base and reeks of somebody who is jealous of all the valuable information he has provided to the direct sales income opportunity market in trying to prevent people from falling for a scam like Amway. I’ve been associated with Joe for many years – going back to our days together as posters for the quixtar blog (hosted by Eric Janssen) – and can vouch for this man’s honesty, solid reputability and on target analytical capabilities thru investing his time and effort to a cause – all free of charge – just because he doesn’t want to see others being unfairly taken in by a multi-billion dollar scam like Amway.
IBO, the only thing you need to “fight back” against is your own gullibility and stupidity, not to mention your very arrogant attitude exhibited on this board.
Mike wrote: “The amway opportunity is a scam because… in order for a few people to make money in a closed buying network (i.e. “the pyramid”) more people would have to be losing money on not only buying overpriced products, but by purchasing the support materials/meetings as well. It’s failure by design is so obvious to anybody who has any type of business acumen.”
Great comment, Mike. If someone is thinking about signing up with one of these parasites, reread that statement a dozen times until it sinks in.
ibofb is making it his life’s work to defend an organization founded on parasitism. They teach and encourage you to attach to other people’s hope’s, dreams, energy, ambitions and bank accounts and suck it like a bloodthirsty tic.
If Amway produces an ointment or spray that repels Amway IBOs, sign me up for a case!
Mike/Anon,
While I agree many Amway products are overpriced (and this is not a straightforward issue, as some people value the quality, others don’t), there are also many that are competitively priced. Considering ONLY the competitively priced products, I see no issue with Amway, even if there are no customer (non-IBO) sales, as the people purchasing products are no worse off financially than they otherwise would be.
However, when it comes to the Amway Tool Scam (ATS), this is an entirely different issue, as:
1. The upline, along with the full cooperation from Amway, LIE about the fact most of the uplines’ profit comes from the tools,
2. Amway cooperates in order to keep the upline in Amway, and not leave to another MLM, many of which do not allow tool profit, as well as Amway can keep more of the Amway product profit for themselves, because the upline is gorging themselves on the tool profit, and
2. the other 99% of IBOs operate at a net loss because of the ATS and lesser Amway profit.
The above is why the ATS is MUCH more significant than any other issue regarding the Amway “business.” By the way, I think I scared ibofb off again. You’re welcome. LOL
Oops! The second “2” above should be “3.”
Tex:
Okay, on behalf of Anon and myself, I’ll give you your well deserved belated “Thank You” with this posting :-)
Come to think of it, I think ibofb and shekhar from above are one and the same poster – both their writing styles seem to be very similar. This individual also goes by the handle “insider” when he used to post on the old Quixtar blog, and it’s a name that he also uses on you-tube to post his silly amquix promotional bullshit videos.
mike,
Thanks. I don’t think shekhar and ibofb are the same person, but that’s just another meaningless detail, like treating a hangnail on a person with a compound fracture. ibofb has used at least 4-5 different names over the years.
P.S., be sure to check out my latest take on Jimbo Dornan and Amway, it’s one of my best posts, if I do say myself….which I just did! LOL
I just joined Amway and honestly Im also going to school for my Masters in CJ so honestly im doing this because i believe it works and nobody can rip dreams away but honestly if Amway does not work i always have something to fall back on but for now I am going to be an IBO!! :)
Of course Amway works, but it generally works for established diamonds and not for newcomers.
Study the compensation plan. If 100 PV generates about $90 in bonus, why does the guy who did the work, get the smallest bonus ($10). What’s fair about that?
And the biggest trap is the seminars and tools. That normally accounts for upline profits and dowline losses.
HAHAHAHAAHAHAHA LMFAO (not the gay rap band)
not a victim has the best responses ever. i was laughing for 15 straight minutes!!!
anyways amway is an opportunity to make money, but it is quite hard to make money and in the process will most likely lose 300 plus on money. i’ve known 4 people all smart with lots of friends who were dedicated and belived that they were going to retire in 2-3 only to be screwed over and waste valuable time and effort. 3 years ago when they were telling me to join i can assure you i’m glad i didn’t.
To the Kingpin Androids:
Question for you scam artists: If your business is as great as you say it is, and “the facts speak for themselves”, then why do you and your ambot followers have to constantly resort to google and you-tube bombing in order to blare out your message? Are you so afraid that what the critics are pointing out as being valid and self-evident as to what a crock of shit your “business” stands out as is so obvious and true that you have to try to drown them out by overusing phrases such as “scam”,. “pyramid”, “fraud”, “hoax” etc. in your online correspondence in order to overtake them with your ridiculous turnabout tagging scheme? You’re fooling nobody by perpetuating this nonsense. All you’re doing is showing how your solicitations for new recruits really can’t stand on their own merits. The joke’s on you!
Here is my experience with amway. I got involved with it because of a very close friend of mine. I went to several of the meetings, watched people draw circles, and was promised that I could make a truckload of money. (Their words, not mine).
I went to two “seminars”. The first time, just before the seminar started, I went to find a restroom. A man standing in front of the restroom door asked me in a loud and unfriendly voice what I was doing there. I told him I needed to used the restroom. He answered, again loudly, for me to hurry it up.
The seminar felt like a revival meeting gone bad. They played uplifting (cheesy) songs and did a lot of whooping and hollering. The same dumbass who yelled at me before the meeting told everyone in the audience that he loved everyone there. To top it all off, the ONLY refreshments at the end of the seminar was water. Nothing else. Nothing else from the nouveau riche and big spenders.
The other time was at a community center. The speaker was extremely boring. And yet, the promoters made this seminar sound like I was going to have an audience with the Pope. The wife of the boring speaker also got up and said, and I quote: “I don’t know how many of you are Christians, but I really prayed a lot about this.” Here I was, the only Jew in the audience and she made it seem that only her lot had the monopoly on prayer.
As I have low blood sugar, I went to find a drink. I found a soda machine, but it was blocked by a woman who told me that the machine would make too much noise and interrupt the meeting. I told her that I pitied the poor schmuck who would deny me a drink, and I put my money in the machine anyway. I immediately left.
My friend would often give me lists of books and let me borrow tapes. The books were pedestrian at best and the tapes – at $5.00 each – were of the poorest quality. I listened to an voice mail from “Dexter Yeager” the former beer truck driver who made it big as an “amway distributor”. I may as well have listened to Tony Soprano.
So, what is MY dream? I will be no one’s foot soldier ever again.
aright so…. obviously i did not read everything from above but i red most of it thought….the reason i am her cause yesterday for the first time i went to this seminar thingy about Amway….being a smart human i dint believe most of it and i turn to the men best friend and worse enemy….the “INTERNET”…..i just want this question to be answered…..
50 old Shekhar u should be 53 now….how is that income coming…??..O.O
ibofightback how is that income coming…??..O.O…i will like to know…
u guys should be making some serous money by now..O.O..
“50 old Shekhar u should be 53 now….how is that income coming…??..O.O
ibofightback how is that income coming…??..O.O…i will like to know…”
LOL, now now, their income has nothing to do with your individual effort and results. LOL
P.S. Amway is a scam.
I was approached by a person who has a girlfriend who graduated from the college I went to. He also told me he knew an emerald distributor and had me speak to him via phone. They showed me a video about Amway and gave me some free samples. So they told me I had to invest $200 for the company to get started. So I kinda lied and said I was interested and they told me I should go to a conference that is a few towns from where I live. So I said I would and then when I saw this video I knew right away that it would be a scam by this video. So I blocked the guys number and anyone else who is involved with him and never looked back. Here is the link to the video if you guys need some evidence: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-215989802739458876#
Kochi, Aug. 6:
The police on Friday carried out searches at nine Amway centres in three districts in Kerala as part of the ongoing drive against money chain activities and cheating through multi-level marketing campaigns.
The team under Mr J. Jayanath, Superintendent of Police, Wayanad, searched the head office of the Amway at Kochi and also its office at Kottayam. The raids were also conducted in Thiruvananthapuram, Kollam, Thrissur, Kozhikode and Palakkad.
The police said that cases had been registered against the company at Kannur, Wayanad, and Thrissur following complaints of cheating.
Meanwhile, Amway in a statement said the police action has come as ‘rude shock’ and surprise. A fair investigation demands that the company be notified about the nature of complaint received for such a sweeping inquiry, it said.
The multi-level marketing and direct selling company stated that it had been receiving complaints from distributors over the past one month that they were being called to police stations and being ‘harassed’ to give complaints against the company. This is another step in the direction of ‘high handedness’ of some police officials, the statement said.
Wow, a 7 year old Dateline NBC video and 2 month old India news. What a lame blog!
“Wow, a 7 year old Dateline NBC video and 2 month old India news. What a lame blog!”
If it’s such a lame blog, one wonders: why does Tex spend so much time here trolling for traffic? Perhaps its because NO ONE reads his boring, self-absorbed POS blog. The guy is so clueless that he actually posted his pathetic traffic counts. He typically gets fewer than 125 visitors a day.
Of the fewer than 125 visitors, it’s unlikely more than a handful are there to read about Amway and virtually none to read his opinions. Tex brags that his strategy for getting traffic is posting the obituaries of deceased Amway execs and IBOs. So most of his meager traffic comes from grieving family members and friends looking for funeral times. Kind of macabre and desperate, don’t you think?
Tex has delusions of grandeur and self-importance. What’s sad is that he probably has some good information and points to make, but he’s so arrogant and abrasive, even to those who agree with him, it’s not worth the effort. If you’ve been to his blog, you know what I mean. If you haven’t, don’t bother. It’s trashed up with year-old obits and ads to sell his car and computer. I guess annoying people for a living doesn’t pay all that well.
I scrolled back a few dozen of his blog posts there wasn’t a single comment left on any one of his posts. Not ONE. Even the spammers don’t go there! :) That he would come and criticize a thread with 300 comments hoping that someone will accidentally click on his name kind of says it all, doesn’t it?
What do they say in Texas? Big hat, no readers?
I spend very little time here – it’s too lame! LOL
Just because I would make you look stupid for posting stupid comments doesn’t mean the blog is the problem, it means YOU are stupid! LOL
Why shouldn’t I be proud of an average of more than 125 visits per day? It’s more than most blogs. LOL
Posting about croaked LCKs is only one very small part of my strategery for gaining traffic. So no, I don’t think you think. What an idiot! LOL
If all you can see are “year-old obits and ads to sell his car and computer (which aren’t even mine!) then you have confirmed your idiocy. LOL
The threads more than 2 weeks old don’t allow posts to be made, there was too much spamming. If someone makes a post, it will eventually get posted and responded to, even yours! LOL
You haven’t made a single point, but what should we expect from a complete and total IDIOT!!! LOL
P.S., click on my name for a REAL blog about Amway. LOL
Tex:
Did you literally Laugh Out Loud (LOL) 7 times in the course of writing that single comment? If so, it may be time for an adjustment of your medication.
Tex writes: “Why shouldn’t I be proud of an average of more than 125 visits per day? It’s more than most blogs.” Actually, it’s not. My 9 year old son put up a Blogger blog about his turtle and he has twice as much traffic as you. And he doesn’t have to resort to writing pet obituaries to get some accidental traffic.
Tex writes: “Posting about croaked LCKs is only one very small part of my strategery for gaining traffic.” Those must be some powerhouse strategies to attract 125 people per day. Perhaps you should write a book: “SEO Secrets to Attracting 1/2 as Much Blog Traffic as a Turtle!”
Tex writes: “If someone makes a post [he means ‘comment’], it will eventually get posted and responded to, even yours!” Glad you have a plan in place in the unlikely event anyone ever posts a comment to your blog. Perhaps the widow of a Nigerian dictator will stumble by and leave the first. Some day.
Tex writes: “P.S., click on my name for a REAL blog about Amway. LOL” I did. Hmmm… is that your way of apologizing for insulting the blog you troll?
To all: I apologize for feeding this troll. I think I’d rather go to an Ambot rally than read a single post of his inane blog. Obviously, all of America agrees. I think he visits it himself 125 times per day.
It was probably more than just 7 times, I always laugh at IDIOTS! LOL
No medication necessary, laughter is the BEST medicine! LOL
Just because you can point out one single blog that has more traffic doesn’t mean it has MEANINGFUL traffic/content. What is the link for your son’s blog? I get some pretty pissed off comments on the LCK deaths, and one of them was even included in Amway’s lawsuit. LOL
Perhaps you should write a book: “Idiot Secrets to Having 1/2 as Much Intelligence Than Most People!” LOL
Who cares how many idiots like you are too afraid to post on my blog, because if you write something STUPID you’ll be called out on it? LOL
No, it’s my way of attracting attention to my blog when this blog owner removes the link in the comment section. IDIOT! LOL
It would be very difficult to visit myself 125 times/day from all over the world.
By the way, the topic of this thread is whether Amway is a scam. The answer is YES. Click on my name to find out why! LOL
Tex writes: “I get some pretty pissed off comments on the LCK deaths, and one of them was even included in Amway’s lawsuit. LOL”
Tex is like those miserable Westboro Baptist Church people who protest at soldier’s funerals. He’s like those dysfunctional children who act out just to get attention. They are so narcissistic and needy they don’t care if the attention is negative, or if it hurts innocent people, so long as they get the attention they crave.
I think Amway/Quixter is like a magnet for the narcissistic & needy, which is a big market. These are people who think they somehow deserve to live like royalty without really ever producing or contributing anything. They just think they should be rich and admired because they deserve it for being so special and unaccomplished.
People like Tex become Amway detractors for the same reason they joined Amway: they crave attention and adoration. Of course, they are losers just like most deluded AmBots. Before anyone considers joining this moronic “movement” notice of much emphasis they put on themselves and each other, their goals, future lifestyle, silly levels, etc. and how little emphasis is on the crap they sell that no one wants.
So, no, Tex, you can’t have the URL to my son’s turtle blog. His readers aren’t interested in you or your sad, sad blog either.