IS AMWAY A SCAM?

1,020 thoughts on “IS AMWAY A SCAM?”

• The LCKs are NOTHING like our dead soldiers. Don’t you know that LCK stands for LYING COWARDLY “KINGPIN”? LOL

  I’ve never once stated or expected to be paid for something I didn’t deserve. You’re a flaming IDIOT! No wonder you’re too scared to post comments on my blog! LOL

  I don’t put the emphasis on me, YOU do!!! LOL I put the emphasis on the Amway Tool Scam, JERK! LOL

  I doubt you have a son or a turtle blog. Perhaps YOU are the turtle on the fence post, you sure post like one! LOL

  By the way, the topic of this thread is whether Amway is a scam. The answer is YES. Click on my name to find out why! LOL

• “Perhaps YOU are the turtle on the fence post, you sure post like one!”

  You’ve seen turtles on fence posts that can post blog comments? That’s amazing, Tex! You should post a video of them on your blog. You would get crazy traffic… might even boost you to 200 visitors per day! My son might even link to you.

  Perhaps you should ask your fencepost turtle bloggers to post comments to your blog. While you are thoroughly uninteresting to humans, amphibious reptile bloggers might be your niche audience!

• I don’t think they can laugh out loud, though, so you may want to lay off the incessant LOLs when communicating with them.

• It’s obvious you don’t understand what the term “turtle on a fence post” means, but what should we expect from an obvious stupid idiot? LOL

• Tex is an obsessive compulsive moron. His blog sucks and he’s even critisizing deceased people. No class, what an ass.

• From Business Line

  Kochi, Aug. 6:

  The police on Friday carried out searches at nine Amway centres in three districts in Kerala as part of the ongoing drive against money chain activities and cheating through multi-level marketing campaigns.

  The team under Mr J. Jayanath, Superintendent of Police, Wayanad, searched the head office of the Amway at Kochi and also its office at Kottayam. The raids were also conducted in Thiruvananthapuram, Kollam, Thrissur, Kozhikode and Palakkad.

  The police said that cases had been registered against the company at Kannur, Wayanad, and Thrissur following complaints of cheating.

  Meanwhile, Amway in a statement said the police action has come as ‘rude shock’ and surprise. A fair investigation demands that the company be notified about the nature of complaint received for such a sweeping inquiry, it said.

  The multi-level marketing and direct selling company stated that it had been receiving complaints from distributors over the past one month that they were being called to police stations and being ‘harassed’ to give complaints against the company. This is another step in the direction of ‘high handedness’ of some police officials, the statement said.

• LOL is an obsessive compulsive moron. He sucks, doesn’t even have a blog, and he’s even more stupid than deceased people. No class, what an ass.

  sivan,

  We know, you posted that 2 month old news a few days ago.

• Wow, that was a real good comeback tex. Did you learn that in kindergarten?

  You have the mentality of a midget and your blog is in extremely poor taste. I hope Amway wins their lawsuit against you and puts you in the poorhouse.
  Ironically, you lost money doing Amway and now your losing money fighting against Amway. Either way your a loser.

• I pretty much copied your stupid statement, I thought you were shooting for about 3 years old, actually. LOL

  There are plenty of anti-Amway blogs around, why do you think they are only picking on me? It’s because I am hurting their bottom line and know their vulnerabilities. Your definition of poor taste is my blog traffic. You are an idiot if you hope Amway wins, as they are running the scam, not me. I suggest you read the headline at the top of this page, because you are trying to make this discussion about me, but it’s not about me, it’s about the Amway Tool Scam. If you were able to read my blog for comprehension, you would realize I am winning, hands down. It isn’t ironic I lost money doing Amway, most people do. I also am not losing money with Amway, I am burying them, and will continue to do so until they are forced to get rid of the tool scam, no thanks to you or all the other idiots in the blog world. LOL

  The real “loser” is your lack of command of the English language. You misused the word “your” twice in the last 2 sentences of your post. The proper word is “you’re” you fucking jackass idiot sorry excuse for a human being wasting perfectly good oxygen jerk. LOL

• “Amway’s parent company, Alticor Inc., reported sales exceeding $9.2 billion for the year ended December 31, 2010, a 9.5 percent increase over sales of $8.4 billion in 2009. The 2010 performance results mark Alticor’s 10th sales increase in the last 11 years…. The world’s second-largest direct selling enterprise, Amway works with more than 3 million distributors who sell the company’s branded products…”

  Tex writes: “I am hurting their bottom line and know their vulnerabilities.”
  Yes, Tex, it sure looks like your crappy free blogger blog has got them on the ropes. LOL

  Tex writes: “I am winning, hands down…”
  Yes, you’re a regular Charlie Sheen, minus the money, fame, talent, good looks and connections.

  Tex writes: “I am burying them, and will continue to do so until they are forced to get rid of the tool scam…”
  HaHaHaHa!!! Yes, Tex, you’ve got them on their knees!!! HeeHeeHee!!! I bet they are in the Amway boardroom right now, sweating and pacing up a storm. “Sure we’ve got record profits and we’re up nearly 10%. Sure sales are over $9 billion. But what are we going to do about Tex! He’s got 126 visitors a day! This guy is BURYING us!”

  ROFLMAO!

• Amway is growing in some markets, but not in others. They wouldn’t sue me unless I was hurting their bottom line. If you bothered reading my blog, you would realize it isn’t my blog that is hurting them. Plus, even if they have growth, they could have had more growth if it wasn’t for me, so they can grow and I can STILL hurt their bottom line. IDIOT.

  Again, you haven’t bothered to read my blog. ASSHOLE.

  Keep laughing, we’ll see who has the last laugh….

• “They wouldn’t sue me unless I was hurting their bottom line.” sez Tex
  Just because I pop a zit doesn’t mean it was threatening to me. HaHaHa! Sure you were hurting them Tex! LOL!

  “I can STILL hurt their bottom line” sez Tex
  9 billion in sales. Up nearly 10%. HaHaHa! Sure you can, Tex! LOL!

  “you haven’t bothered to read my blog” sez Tex
  HaHaHa! No one has, Tex! LOL

  Oh Tex. You are the new Shekhar!

• tex, the headline of this post is how Amway makes you annoying, which you are.
  Amway picks on you because you cross the line. There is freedom of speech but you have gone over the top with your childish rants. If you had half a brain (which you don’t), you would know that you won’t prevail in the long run against a multi billion dollar company with deep pockets. Rathter than hurting their bottom line, your just making yourself look like an idiot, which is abundantly clear to most who read this blog.

• Guest,

  Just because I pop a zit doesn’t mean it was threatening to me. HaHaHa! Sure you were hurting them Tex! LOL! —> No, you ARE the zit! LOL

  9 billion in sales. Up nearly 10%. HaHaHa! Sure you can, Tex! LOL! —-> What if they would have been up 20% without me? LOL

  HaHaHa! No one has, Tex! LOL —-> My traffic stats would say otherwise. LOL

  LOL,

  tex, the headline of this post is how Amway makes you annoying, which you are. —> WRONG, the headline is IS AMWAY A SCAM? The answer is yes, and the content on my site proves it. LOL

  Amway picks on you because you cross the line. —-> I haven’t crossed ANY line, you flaming IDIOT. LOL

  There is freedom of speech but you have gone over the top with your childish rants. —> My “childish rants” are permitting by the First Amendment. How can you be so stupid and still type? LOL

  If you had half a brain (which you don’t), you would know that you won’t prevail in the long run against a multi billion dollar company with deep pockets. —> If you had a single brain cell (which you don’t), you would know David fought Goliath and WON. You’re just too much of a pussy to exercise your right of free speech and stop a multi-decade, multi-million victim, multi-tens of billion dollar SCAM. LOL

  Rathter than hurting their bottom line, your just making yourself look like an idiot, which is abundantly clear to most who read this blog. —> I’ll bet the “most” that read this blog are both clueless like the 2 of you are, and very few. LOL

• David fought Goliath and won. But tex is fighting Amway and will lose, because tex is a LOSER. And if I might add, a stupid loser who was stupid enough to spend so much money on useless Amway tools. Man, I hope you don’t have kids. Your blog is full of idiocy and hatred. It doesn’t accomplish anything except making yourself look stupid. I hope Amway prevails and leaves you broke and homeless. LOL

• P.S. Tex is a moron

• LOL,

  Only an idiot would consider someone who is standing up to a scam a loser. There are literally MILLIONS of others who were lied to and overspent on tools, you fucking MORON! I do have kids, and YOU are full of idiocy and hatred. The blog has accomplished enough for Amway to make a stink about it, which makes YOU look stupid, as if you needed any help. Anyone who wants a scamming company to win over someone who is shining the bright light of truth on it is morally broke and brainless. LOL

• “Only an idiot would consider someone who is standing up to a scam a loser”
  That’s not why you’re a loser, Tex. You are a loser because you insult and bully everyone on both sides. I’ve seen it on other sites from 3 years ago. Someone agrees with you and you call them stupid, shallow or try to belittle them in some other way.
  It’s obvious you have no empathy or concern for victims of the tool scam. You spew hatred toward anyone and everyone. This is all about a sad little man trying to be noticed, to be someone, desperate for negative attention, venting his unhappiness. You delude yourself into thinking you are David battling Goliath. You are simply a pesky gnat, a loser.

  “The blog has accomplished enough for Amway to make a stink about it”
  We agree on one thing: your blog stinks. I just clicked on your name and realized this site doesn’t even link to you pathetic blog like it used to. So now you won’t even get your 125 visitors, just a few accidental obituary readers.

  You actually are a distraction from those who do want to warn people about the futility and danger of getting involved with Amway. You are denser than Shekhar and even more annoying than ibofightback. You are nothing like that bloated drug addict Rush you idolize. Even that fat, disgusting loudmouth knows how to build an audience and not attack those who agree with him. Sorry, you are no Rush. Just a blowhard with no following, no audience, no allies. That’s losing.

• You’re a liar. I don’t call people who agree with me stupid, shallow or try to belittle them in any other way. Find a SINGLE example of that, LIAR.

  I am ALL about concern for victims of the tool scam, you don’t have the slightest clue of a clue. YOU are a sadly mistaken little boy/girl if that is what you think. LOL

  This site no longer links to my blog because this blog owner recently changed it. If you want to identify someone who has no empathy or concern for victims of the tool scam, it is him, not me!

  I don’t need a certain number of visitors to my blog to be effective, my lawsuit with Amway proves that.

  YOU are the one who is the distraction, by bringing up all the minor issues with Amway rather than focusing on the major one. This thread is a good example of that, there are a number of various minor issues that someone not only wouldn’t consider a big deal, but may not want to search through all the bullshit before they find the REAL problem, the Amway Tool Scam, posted by me. You are denser than a rock and even more annoying than fingernails on a chalkboard. Rush is a national treasure, and you’re an idiot. You’re so stupid, you couldn’t tell whether something was similar to dirt, water or air! I don’t need a “following,” all I need is the truth, which I have, in spades. That’s winning. And you’re STUPID.

• To all those who are here trying to learn about Amway, whether it’s a scam, whether you should get involved, etc.: I apologize for feeding the troll called Tex. He derails Amway conversations around the Internet with his self-absorbed Rush Limbaugh-wannabe insults and pathetic attempts to get traffic to his hideous and incoherent blog.

  Here’s my take on what he’s ranting about in a nutshell: Amway is a brilliant, worldwide machine that attracts desperate and/or greedy dreamers and sucks them into their rah-rah fantasy of being able to become a millionaire on a beach somewhere, effortlessly receiving checks from the work of a “downline” group of desperate and/or greedy dreamers below them in the pyramid.

  The greedy schemers higher up rake in BIG moolah selling all these desperate, greedy dreamers all kinds of crap. In addition to their products and service offerings, they make them buy tickets to rah-rah seminars, books, tapes, CDs, and DVDs (The “Tools” he talks about) to stimulate the delusional lobe of their squirming brains and get themselves further self-hypnotized.

  From what I’ve been able to make out from Tex’s garbage pile of rants, he was one of the deluded, greedy wannabes for a bunch of years and paid big bucks for all the crap they were selling. For a long time, he was an online Amway advocate and all the time trying to get the Big Boy scammers to pay attention to him and listen to his ideas. They blew him off for obvious reasons and his feelings got hurt and he went over to the anti-Amway side and started annoying people on both sides. Just my opinion based on reading what I could bear to read without getting nauseous. I think that’s the gist of this squirmy bug on Amway’s windshield.

  Feel free to just skip over his comments and I’ll try to stop feeding him.

  So if you’re thinking about getting involved with Amway, keep in mind that almost everyone involved – advocates and detractors – are really annoying and needy egotists. If you are a really annoying, greedy egotist you still shouldn’t join because once you tell anyone you are associated with Amway, your secret will be out for good!

  If you want to make money selling worthless crap, get a job at WalMart where you’re guaranteed a paycheck :)

• You couldn’t be more wrong about me, but I’ve “advertised” your blog on my blog! LOL

• My marriage has ended. I have no more savings. My rooms are full of products I cannot use. I am in financial ruin and I have no money to retire with.

  Amway has ruined me. I should have listened. I was so sure this would work out.

  NOTE: That this comment was posted by the same pro-Amway “Shekhar” who regularly posted earlier has not been confirmed. The comment author should contact UnhappyFranchisee[at]gmail to confirm identity.

• *  *  *  *  *

  IS AMWAY A SCAM?

  Let’s get refocused on the original topic, shall we?

  I can tell you that this blog post gets a very strong flow of traffic.  Many of the visitors coming here are good people who want to improve their lives and provide for their families.  They are trying to figure out whether devoting their time, money and energy into Amway will help them achieve their goals, or whether it will waste their time & their savings & alienate their friends and family.

  Please help answer these reader’s questions, such as:

  Is Amway a legitimate opportunity?

  How does it really work?  Is there profit potential in selling products or is it dependent on signing up new members and selling them stuff (products and “tools”)?

  What percentage of IBOs really make money, and what characteristics do they share?

  What questions should a prospective IBO ask or what should they research to get the truth?

  Let’s get the conversation back on track and end the ad hominem attacks and personal sniping, as entertaining as they can be.

  Thanks!  ADMIN

  * * * * *

• This blog owner and I have reached an agreement that I will be Mr. Nice Guy PROVIDED he takes down personal attacks against me.

  Is Amway a legitimate opportunity? —> As it stands now in the U.S., absolutely NOT. There is FAR too much money being made on the tools, I call it the ATS (Amway Tool Scam), which results in the downline operating at a net loss until they reach about the Platinum level, which means about 100 people in your group, most of whom, by definition, operate at a net loss while the upline lies through their teeth about where their lifestyle comes from. There is no way Amway can be considered a legitimate opportunity when it is embedded with this lie.

  How does it really work? —> By lying, see above.

  Is there profit potential in selling products or is it dependent on signing up new members and selling them stuff (products and “tools”)? —> There is profit potential in selling products, but there is no problem with “signing up new member and selling them stuff (although technically, they buy from Amway directly, not through you, their upline). The tools part is addressed above.

  What percentage of IBOs really make money, and what characteristics do they share? —> You mean now, or after the ATS is fixed?

  What questions should a prospective IBO ask or what should they research to get the truth? —> How much do the Emeralds and above make on tools, and can I attend local major functions rather than fly/drive across the country to get to them? Also, can you provide me Tex’s conference call phone number, so I can provide some additional information to him and he can tell me whether you’re trying to scam me?

• So who said tex was in charge of battling the tool scam?

• LOL:
  No one said anyone is in charge of anything other than that I am in charge of this discussion thread… the point of which is to get useful information out to prospective IBOs as to the reality of investing time and money into Amway.

  If you have information, opinions or advice to share, please add it. My goal is to get this thread back to providing some useful substance, and away from cross-bickering with each other. If people are truly interested in battling the “tool scam” they’ll help keep the conversation focused on it, what it is, examples of how it works, etc..

  No more ad hominem attacks. Attacking the argument is fine; attacking the arguer is not.

• Okay. Amway is not a legitimate opportunity. In my opinion, the Amway opportunity is just a front being used to coverup an otherwise illegal scam.

  I think those functions and other “training” sold by the diamonds is a scam, but they use Amway’s products to get around the letter of the law to make it appear legal. Without Amway, the diamonds would simply walk away with their groups and join some other MLM scam. Take a look at Orriin Woodward etal – moed their Amway groups to Mona Vie.

  On the flip side, Amway IBO’s mostly lose money. The payment plan sucks and when you factor in business expenses and training, IBO’s are losing their shirts and only a select few enjoy the benefits of the Amway opportunity.

• Okay. Amway is not a legitimate opportunity. In my opinion, the Amway opportunity is just a front being used to coverup an otherwise illegal scam. —> The FTC would say otherwise, if your point is that all MLM is an illegal scam. Now, if you’re saying Amway is being used as a front to cover up the Amway Tool Scam (ATS), I agree. Keep in mind the FTC has NOT looked at the ATS.

  I think those functions and other “training” sold by the diamonds is a scam, but they use Amway’s products to get around the letter of the law to make it appear legal. Without Amway, the diamonds would simply walk away with their groups and join some other MLM scam. Take a look at Orriin Woodward etal – moed their Amway groups to Mona Vie. —> I think “those functions and other “training” sold by the diamonds” is a scam as well. I also agree many of the diamonds would walk away and join another MLM that allowed them to keep their tool scams going. And I say good riddance, and allow the IBOs left to rebuild the Amway business the way it was done for the first several years in the U.S. and is currently required to be built in other countries, such as the UK and India.

  On the flip side, Amway IBO’s mostly lose money. The payment plan sucks and when you factor in business expenses and training, IBO’s are losing their shirts and only a select few enjoy the benefits of the Amway opportunity. —> How much money do YOU think a 100 PV IBO should be paid? Remember, the more you pay them, the less that is left for those responsible for large groups, and there a LOT more 100 PV people than other levels. Reducing expenses would prevent IBOs from losing their shirts, unless they do other stupid things, which you KNOW some people will do.

• How much should a 100 PV IBO get paid? That IBO should get the lion’s share of the business generated by his or her efforts. Instead, uplines end up getting most of the bonus with the IBO who did the work getting a pittance. What makes all of this even worse is that these lower level IBOs get scammed into buying tools. And what’s more, the tools do not help the IBO to earn more money. All it does is drain what little profit the IBO may have made. Thus upline is double dipping in ripping off their downline.

• If the IBO gets the lion’s share of the profit, there is little to no incentive to build a large business, because there is little to no money to pay upline. Keep in mind there are usually several people below the Platinum level who split majority of the profit. What you are proposing is known as socialism, the current payout is called capitalism. Which system do you prefer? Also, the current payout is what is shown when a prospect sees the marketing plan from an IBO, so why would someone join if they don’t like this payout plan?

  Remove the tool scam (not the tools, the tool scam, in other words, lower the tool prices drastically and share meetings/functions with multiple LOS/LOA groups) and the IBOs won’t be getting scammed. I don’t agree the tools don’t help IBOs earn money, because the upline earned money because of AND in spite of the tool scam.

  There is no double dip, only the tool scam single dip. If you don’t like the Amway payout plan, don’t join.

• Here’s something else to consider: The idea of any business is to grow, and if paying most of the money to the lowest level IBO is such a good idea for growth, why hasn’t any other MLM done it? Surely you’re not the first with the idea.

• It seems to me that what other MLMs do is not a good gauge because most are set up to enrich the few at the expense of the many who are going to come, deposit their money, and then leave eventually with nothing anyway. If an MLM were really interested retaining their IBOs long term, they would allow them to get some real return on their investment of time and money so they could afford to stay and build a legit business, wouldn’t they?

• Re income percentages and who gets to keep what out of the recommended sale price of a product to a consumer, some facts. Roughly –

  Newest IBO: 30% to 50%
  Upline IBO up to Platinum: 0% to 20%
  Upline above Platinum: 0% to 3%

• Re ibofightback: income percentages

  [citation needed]

  LOL even if the percentages were real, clear to enlighten us on the actual total sales and net profit for the “average” IBO’s products sold?

• Tex, it’s not capitalism. It’s a scam when someone does the work and the uplines get most of the money. Someone can still build a big group where they get a small cut of the downline sales plus the bonuses for the pin levels. If someone is good at selling products and services, why even bother to join MLM? Just sell the prioducts and get 100% of the earnings. The reason why people join MLM’s like Amway is because of the mostly false promise building the business and in the future, being able to walk away from the business while the money continues. The problem is compounded when the uplines who get most of the bonus, also get to sell their downline function tickets and other materials that is more fluff than substance.

• Mi nombre es – the citation is the Amway compensation plan. The basics of it (up platinum) are shown to everyone when they’re introduced to the business. The rest you can find in the Amway business reference guide (google it)

  Regarding your other question, “average” is meaningless statistic for that type of information, something I discuss here.

• Guest,

  I would think the main objective of any business, MLM or otherwise, is to maximize the volume of products/services they offer, in order to maximize their profit. The payout plan is designed to maximize this volume over the short and long term.

  ibofb,

  This assume Amway products are retailable (sales to non-IBOs) at full retail price. This is NOT a very good assumption.

  Mi nombre es,

  Good point. According to the investigations by the Wisconsin Attorney Generals office, the UK regulators, and numerous online accounts on various blogs, far less than 1% of IBOs make a net profit operating under an upline Amway Tool Scam.

  LOL,

  The top people at most companies make far more than most employees. This is how capitalism works. The below discussion assumes the Amway Tool Scam (ATS) is not being considered, as this would skew the issues completely. Please do not throw the ATS wild card around to make your point, it completely disrupts a logical discussion of the facts. The individual 100 PV person does NOT do the work, they do SOME of the work. It is the work of numerous downline IBOs AND upline IBOs that are leveraged by the upline who take their time, money, and effort to train and motivate the downline. The 100 PV person can do the same thing OVER TIME and reap the same or better benefits their upline did, which ALSO occurred over time. The beauty of MLM is you LEVERAGE your time and effort through others, that’s what makes MLM superior to a pure salesperson, as most of us are not interested in being superior salespersons. THAT’S why it makes sense for most people to join an MLM rather than just selling. Also, you could get sick and your business would not go to zero during that time period if you were in MLM. The reason people can’t have the “walk away income” talked about is because the ATS financially crushes people so fast the upline MUST stay active to get enough in the front door to make up for those leaving the back door.

  However, ALL of the above discussion items have been responded to personally by me on numerous occasions in the past. The bottom line is I am right with my facts and the rest of you are in error in one form or another. If you think otherwise, show me where my facts and logic are in error. The issue then becomes why do we keep rehashing these issues over and over again, rather than working together to shut down the ATS?

• ibofb,

  You are ignoring the net profit portion of the question, as usual.

• As usual, the rest of them can’t/won’t discuss the facts. The only thing they can do is ignore the facts and launch personal attacks. That’s why we don’t have any posts the past few days, even though several questions are on the table. No wonder the Amway Tool Scam is still ripping off people, nobody else has the spine or guts to stand up to it. How very sad….

• I have a question. The “Amway tool scam” is a bunch of guys selling get rich quick DVDs and seminars to gullible wannabe millionaires right?

  It’s sleazy but is it illegal? Calling it a scam implies illegal. How is this any different than the gazillions of motivational speakers?

• I have a question. The “Amway tool scam” is a bunch of guys selling get rich quick DVDs and seminars to gullible wannabe millionaires right? —> No, it’s a relatively few number of guys AND gals LYING to their downline about the Amway business model. They claim their houses, boats, planes, cars, motorhomes, jewelry, exotic trips, etc., come from Amway, whereas most of it comes from the Amway Tool Scam (ATS) profits. The DVDs and seminars do not claim to be get rich quick. I wouldn’t use the word “gullible” when it is the upline who are LYING to them. Also, with the internet now containing a LOT of information regarding the ATS, it is much easier to figure out the truth than it used to be. Nor would I use the pejorative term wannabe millionaires, because MOST people WANT to be millionaires, unless they are billionaires. Don’t YOU?

  It’s sleazy but is it illegal? —> Under the RICO and FTC section 5 rules, it probably is illegal to lie about a business model. However, the FTC first has to be interested in prosecuting this activity. Would you like to assist with this effort?

  Calling it a scam implies illegal. How is this any different than the gazillions of motivational speakers? —> The “gazillions” of motivational speakers don’t show up to any event, Amway or any other venue, as promoting one business while taking money from the same people and making most of their money from another business. THAT is how this is different. VERY different. So different, the UK has outlawed ANY profit from being made from the tools, and India requires the maximum tool prices to be included in the Amway rules, with the prices being about 1/5 of what is charged in the USA. However, other motivational speakers are still allowed to operate in these countries.

  Any other questions?

• There is all this talk of brainwashing, scamming, avoiding, and such. All I see is this or that and 2 sides of the bigger issue. What is the issue? Money.

  The economy is in the crapper and people are bickering about how they can’t make ends meet.

  Amway can be used as a credible source of income that isn’t a job at all. What a concept. You can go to school, work full time, and live life the way you always have or you can take a few hours not more than 10hrs a week and game plan with a group of individuals just like yourself to make some money and try to bring other like minded indivduals into the mix.

  You have no one but yourself telling you how much money you want to make. You have a team of people who are there to help you make your money. What do they get in return? They increase their credibility with their consumers and new people who are interested in having a source of income that isn’t a 9-5 job.

  The Amway distributor brings the customers to the companies. To be honest its really not that much different than answering surveys online and getting paid to do that.

  What does Amway do? Sell top tier products that are environmentally friendly, 100% natural and competively priced against the highest out there sold by other companies.

  There are a few companies such as Artestry (which is the promoter of the Miss American pagent) Nutrilite, and Legacy of Clean that are exclusively sold by Amway Distributors.

  What do you have to lose by listening to these people? Nothing
  You can gain a extra income that you wouldn’t normally have.
  Is legitimate extra cash such a bad thing?
  Does fear of something that you don’t understand ever help you gain knowledge about that which you don’t know?

  Hell why not go to an info session and voice your concerns there?

  No such thing as brainwashing. Humans always have the choice to be persuaded, manipulated, or to learn for themselves. Its all a matter of perspective and yours Not a Victum comes from sheer ignorance.

  A friend of a friend isn’t always the best advisor especially if friend of a friend isn’t successful.

  moral of story: Don’t rely on others to tell you whats what, learn for yourself by attending and deciding for yourself.

• Wishfulthinker, your name is very appropriate.

  There is all this talk of brainwashing, scamming, avoiding, and such. —> I don’t subscribe to the brainwashing camp, but there is no denying Amway scams their IBOs.

  All I see is this or that and 2 sides of the bigger issue. —> Then you need to pay attention to the facts.

  What is the issue? Money. —> Agreed, but not in the manner YOU are saying.

  The economy is in the crapper and people are bickering about how they can’t make ends meet. —> True, but the Amway Tool Scam exists in good and bad economies.

  Amway can be used as a credible source of income that isn’t a job at all. —> No, it can’t. It is a scam.

  What a concept. —> Yes, the concept is called the Amway Tool Scam. Feel free to click on my name to educate yourself.

  You can go to school, work full time, and live life the way you always have or you can take a few hours not more than 10hrs a week and game plan with a group of individuals just like yourself to make some money and try to bring other like minded indivduals into the mix. —> It would be nice if that is how it works, but that is not reality.

  You have no one but yourself telling you how much money you want to make. —> No, you have your upline LYING to you about the business model.

  You have a team of people who are there to help you make your money. —> But you have to operate at a net loss until you reach Platinum, then all of those in your group will do the same until THEY reach Platinum, at which time there will be dozens more under them operating at a net loss, etc.

  What do they get in return? —> An empty bank account.

  They increase their credibility with their consumers and new people who are interested in having a source of income that isn’t a 9-5 job. —> You missed the part about operating at a net loss.

  The Amway distributor brings the customers to the companies. —> And the upline rips off the Amway distributor It’s now called IBO, by the way, as IBOs no longer distribute as they used to do.

  To be honest its really not that much different than answering surveys online and getting paid to do that. —> WRONG. It is VERY different than that. Trust me.

  What does Amway do? —> Sell products at inflated prices and deflated bonuses while the upline gorges themselves on the Amway Tool Scam profits.

  Sell top tier products that are environmentally friendly, 100% natural and competively priced against the highest out there sold by other companies. —> Some are, some aren’t. Let’s get real, not get carried away.

  There are a few companies such as Artestry (which is the promoter of the Miss American pagent) Nutrilite, and Legacy of Clean that are exclusively sold by Amway Distributors. —> It’s Artistry. These aren’t companies, these are product lines.

  What do you have to lose by listening to these people? Nothing —> Millions of people have lost 10s of billions of dollars. Do you consider that nothing?

  You can gain a extra income that you wouldn’t normally have. —> Most lose money they can’t afford to lose.

  Is legitimate extra cash such a bad thing? —> Not if it’s legitimate. Amway isn’t.

  Does fear of something that you don’t understand ever help you gain knowledge about that which you don’t know? —> Now we’re getting into tapespeak.

  Hell why not go to an info session and voice your concerns there? —> Because you will get ripped off.

  No such thing as brainwashing. —> But there is such thing as lying.

  Humans always have the choice to be persuaded, manipulated, or to learn for themselves. —> And RICO laws were designed to minimize these issues.

  Its all a matter of perspective and yours Not a Victum comes from sheer ignorance. —> No, it’s a matter of telling the truth.

  A friend of a friend isn’t always the best advisor especially if friend of a friend isn’t successful. —> And a liar isn’t the best advisor, either.

  moral of story: Don’t rely on others to tell you whats what, learn for yourself by attending and deciding for yourself. —> First “attend” my blog and get the facts, then you won’t waste your time or money with the Amway Tool Scam.

• I was in Amway over 30 years ago for a period of several years, and I have spoken to many people in the business during that time and in the years after. I have relatives in the business in the years subsequent to my own time in the business. I’ll give my opinion, for what it’s worth, in the hopes that someone will find it useful. I’ll add that I started my own small business over 20 years ago which has been successful in providing for my family.
  You can make money in the Amway business. But the chances of making the kind of money that will afford you luxury homes, cars and vacations are infinitesimally small. I met many hundreds of people in the business and have personally known just 2 couples who were able to earn enough income to remain in the business full-time for an extended period. One has long since retired (and ceased to be in the business) another is just getting by after having their home foreclosed a number of years ago. The one who retired, for a time, was supplementing their income by reproducing and selling motivational tapes when tools starting becoming the “thing”. While I had periods of small success, after all was said and done I made no money. The 2 things destroyed my motivation were, one, the realization that a lot of money was being made off the “tools” without even realizing the degree to which it taken over the whole business. The second thing was the amount of religion that was being injected into motivational seminars, etc. While there were times that it looked like the company might intervene and address some of these problems, they ultimately seemed to turn a blind eye.
  Fast forward to the mid-90s. My sister-in-laws boyfriend, later her husband, got in deep for a period of about 5 years and he squandered many thousands of dollars and spent countless hours in seminars learning to build a business that he was never able to. He was constantly trying to recruit me and he responded with all the canned answers when I debated him on the business. I heard about the “broke losers” and when asked if he was making money he respond he was going to “fake it ‘til I make it”. He looked at me with such pity because I just didn’t get it. When I pointed out that people were making a lot of money off the tapes and books and he was required to buy, he responded “I don’t have to buy anything, BUT, if I want to be successful you need the tools to learn how to get there. “Don’t you want to buy your household products wholesale and cut out the middleman?” Multilevel marketing of any kind has more middlemen, by definition, than any business I can think of.
  Furthermore, the company places so many restrictions on how you can promote “your business” and the products that it’s really a stretch to say that is indeed your own business. Although I haven’t used the products in many years I found most of them to be of good to superior quality although very expensive to use, even at “wholesale”. Also just because you’re able to sell a product manufactured by some large company, it doesn’t make that company “partners” with Amway.
  I’m just laying it out as it is. As I said earlier, I have since built a small business of my own that provides a low six-figure income. I’ve worked hard and have a net worth currently in excess of a million dollars. But I’m not rich, I live in a New York City suburb, it’s expensive and the economy has hurt my business just like it has almost everyone. But I planned for the “rainy days” beginning 20 years ago.

• I’m going to amend one part of my previous comment. I said it’s possible to make money in the Amway business. I’ll amend that to say the it was once possible to make money in the Amway business. I you are deeply involved in the “tools” and the seminars, etc., it’s just not going to happen.

• AMEN! (Sorry if that sounds “religious,” but Amway has clamped down on the religious and politics talk, although I doubt it is being enforced.)

• Was involved in Amway in the 80s and at the time my father told me that he considered it a “pyramid scheme” and to this day I believe that is still true. The only way you make lots of money with Amway is by getting more people to join under you and take a percentage of their sales. Pretty sure that’s how it still goes. So if you look at the top of the pyramid (the 1%) they are making all the bucks – sound familiar?

• One problem with that theory, James, is that the top earners in Amway are nowhere near “the top of the pyramid”. Indeed one couple just qualified at one of the highest levels (Crown Ambassador) earning as just one of their bonuses a 7 figure check, and they joined in 1992 – 33 years after the business started, and likely hundreds or perhaps thousands of people “above” them.

  Your dad, alas, was wrong and misunderstood the model.

• ibofightback is wrong. It is exactly as James describes. Just because upward (or downward) movement of “guys on the top” doesn’t mean it’s not a pyramid. It just that these new “guys on top” build their own pyramid. In the bigger picture, these new kings are still somewhere downline of the big kings.

• I suggest this blog owner moderate ibofb’s posts until he answers the question I asked him a couple of weeks ago:

  Tex on October 11th, 2011 9:01 pm
  ibofb,
  You are ignoring the net profit portion of the question, as usual.

  ibofb then contorts James’ point into something he never said, as usual. There obviously are more recent “pharaohs” who did not start in 1959, but that misses the main issue, the Amway Tool Scam, which is a much more salient issue than twisting somebody’s comments into something ibofb wants them to say, not what they said.

  I also expect to be taken off the “moderation” status, thanks.