My wife and I had owned and operated our own business for over 20 years and had been very successful at doing so. While we were making a great income from our business there was something missing in our life. Neither us felt that we were contributing to society but just taking and we decided to make a major change in our life. That was when we heard about Curves for Women. It was a new franchise that only had 300 or so clubs and for the first time in years we both became excited at the prospect of actually helping people reach their goals. We bought our first club in 1997 located in a city of thirty thousand. From the first day it opened it was more successful than our wildest dreams. Not only were we making excellent money but the personal rewards helping people better their lives was a truly rewarding feeling. I can still remember as if it was yesterday the first time a Dr. of one of our members came in to check out what we were doing as he couldn’t believe the ch
We sold our first club in 2001 and bought two more franchises. My wife became a mentor for Curves International around this time and I was helping to sell franchise for Curves International as so many of are members wanted to own a club. It was at this time that we started to see problems arising with Curves International but we attributed it to the fast growth that Curves was going through. In 2002 we bought two more franchises but this time they were in what was called a metro-area instead of city under thirty thousand in population.
The first problem we encountered with Curves International was in early 2003. Curves sold a franchise that was a corridor of land between one of our franchise’s and the next city 8 miles from our southern boarder. It was obvious to us that the territory didn’t have the necessary population to support a facility and that Curves International was selling any location just out of greed and the fact that there were so many people who wanted a franchise. The people who bought that franchise tried to open up on our border but it had always been an unwritten but followed rule of Curves International that you open in the middle of your territory so that disputes between owners over stealing members from your territory didn’t arise. We immediately filed a complaint with Curves International and they stopped the new owner from opening at that location. Unfortunately for the new owners there were no other commercial locations between the two cities so they were forced into selling that franchise back to Curves International for a loss.
It was also at this time that Curves International started to change personnel. The employee’s who we had a personal relationship with that had started Curves International with Gary Heavin were leaving the company at an alarming rate. Seven employees that were the top management of Curves left or were forced out because of Gary Heavin’s greed. They ended up filling a law suit against Curves which was later settled out of court. It was at this time that Diane Heavin became involved with Curves and a whole new history was being written about how Curves was started. The original Curves member guide which was written by Gary Heavin and June Manley was taken off the market and the new Curves book authored by of course Gary Heavin was on the top 10 of the Times best seller list.. To make sure it was on the Times best seller list all the clubs had to order at least on case. That is when we as owners realized Heavin was a manipulator and not the born again Christian he portrayed to be. It was also at this time that the price to buy a franchise more than doubled in price. This came as quite a surprise as Heavin had always maintained that he would never ever increase his franchise price and he even swore on the bible in front of a group at club camp that he would never break his word on that. Well as we all know he didn’t keep that promise for long, which just shows his greed.
At this point my wife and I became quite concerned and even considered selling our business but other problems arose concerning Curves International that demanded our full attention. In 2004 another Curves location located on our boarder of one of our metro-areas hired two of our employees and stole around 15 members from our club. Both employees had signed the anti covenant not to compete and in our state those agreements are strictly enforced by the courts. We considered going to court but since it was another Curves facility we decided to file a complaint with Curves International. And to let them handle it. What a mistake that was as they did nothing. We transferred the members files but refused to transfer the money for the members dues until such time that Curves International responded to our complaint. We were told by the area director, which was a new position at Curves International, that we were trouble makers and he refused to send any of are clubs the members appreciation bags. Shortly thereafter Curves International resold the corridor of land that had been sold back to them at a loss from the previous owners and they allowed the new owners to open up in nearly the same location that they had refuse the previous owners only a year and a half before. The new owners advertised in our area and ended up getting 10 or 11 members to transfer to their club. Again we held their monthly dues but did transfer the members files. We immediately filed a complaint but again got the same response nothing. It didn’t take long for most of the members who transferred to come back to our club as the other location was small and in a very run down area and to this day that club has not shown a profit and has been sold numerous times over the years for little to nothing.
Then in 2005 the real problems with Curves International started that we are still contending with today. In one of our metro-areas a competitor by the name of Ladies Workout Express opened up right across the street from our location. Unknown to us they had hired our manager and one other employee from that location and when the employee’s left they had stolen off our computer our member files. They ended up stealing over two thirds of our membership with in a week. The employees had signed the covenant not to compete so we immediately hired a lawyer and prepared for a lawsuit. As I stated before in our state that agreement is strictly enforced but it took four months to get it into court. During this time that location was losing so much money that we decided to move the location next to our other territory so that both clubs could stay open. We sent in the required change of location form to Curves International but never heard anything back from them so we went ahead and relocated in late 05. The owners of the Ladies Workout Express eventually went broke because of the lawsuit and the fact that they would end up owing us monetary damages. They filed for bankruptcy to prevent us from collecting any monetary awards in Dec 05 but we did have the satisfaction knowing that we did what was right
In early 06 we were informed by Curves International that because we abandon that location they were terminating all of our franchise agreements. We immediately requested mediation for all of our clubs which is authorized by our franchise agreements with Curves International. We never heard back from them so we hired a lawyer in Waco, TX to represent us. He proceeded to send them a letter requesting the same mediation process and they did respond to him. They sent him letter stating that it was premature to go through the mediation process at that time as they were in the process of researching our reason for moving. Curves International continued to debit our account for the franchise and advertising fees for all the other clubs we owned but stopped talking the fees for the one territory that they stated we abandoned. The lawyer had us send Curves International a check for the fees and a new authorization form for them to deduct it from our account. Neither our lawyer or ourselves ever heard anything back from Curves International so we all assumed that things were back to normal.
In the spring of 07 we made the decision to start selling off all of our clubs and to completely retire. It didn’t take me long to sell the club we owned that wasn’t in a metro-area and I agreed to stay with the new owner’s to help train them how to run the business. We sent all the documentation into Curves International and the sale was completed by January 08. That freed my wife and I up to concentrate on our metro-area clubs and to get them ready for sale. In Feb of 08 we heard that a Curves club was opening in one of our territories within a mile of our current club. We could not understand how Curves International could do such a thing. We again filed a complaint by phone and e-mail to Curves International and several weeks later we were informed by e-mail that they didn’t know what we were talking about. We were told we didn’t own any franchises and hadn’t since we were terminated in 05. That came as quite a shock to my wife and I as our franchise and advertising fee’s had been deducted all along from our checking account and we had just recently sold a club that they were telling us we never owned. We had a local lawyer send a letter to the new owners explaining the situation and that we would be seeking legal recourse against Curves International and depending on the outcome they were opening themselves up to a potential lawsuit. During this time we had bought and paid in full for the Smart Equipment for Curves International and were waiting for the installation which was scheduled for the June 24th. On June 20th , a Friday we received a phone message telling us that the Curves Smart Installation was canceled and that we had to call Curves legal for an explanation. We left messages both e-mail and phone every 30 minutes on Monday June 23rd and finally late in the afternoon we received an e-mail stating that one of there lawyers would be in touch with us before the end of the day, They never sent an e-mail or a phone call as was promised but by mid day the next day they did respond by e-mail. It stated because of the problems with the members transfers, the fact that we abandoned a franchise, and that we had interfered with the opening of the new franchise located in our territory we weren’t approved for the Curves Smart. Yet in late May they had sent all the promotional ad material for the Curves Smart and of course we had gone to a considerable amount of expense for training the employees, advertising and promotion of the Curves Smart equipment. It was at this point that my wife and I decided that drastic action had to be taken against Heavin and Curves International.
While we still love the concept of Curves we feel that because of the deceptive and we believe fraudulent business practices that Heavin has allowed under his management Curves will eventually end up in the toilet so to speak. After spending many hours on the internet we have found that there are many lawsuits against this man and his company. Just read some of the post’s that are on franchisepick.com from owners concerning the new ten thousand fee if your club goes under and closes to the vitamins that were sold in Feb and March by Ideas in Action at a discount to owners without telling them that they would expire at the end of May. The lack of support and communication from Curves International that all of us owners are going through is intolerable. It is impossible for an owner to get through to them on the phone and good luck if you expect a call back in a timely manor. The fact that we as owners pay a lot of money for our advertising fees and have no accounting of where it is spent and a quite frankly we never see many ads in our area.
I have taken the time to do the necessary research to find several good lawyers who handle franchise law who are more than willing to help Curves owners who are having similar problems with Curves. I for one am going to go after Curves International and Gary Heavin in a court of law. These are not class action but group action lawsuit and if you don’t understand the difference contact me and I will explain it to you. There have been over 200 such lawsuit filed against Curves in the last several years and while some have been settled in mediation others are in the process of going to litigation. If you are a past or present Curves owner who has experienced these problems and want satisfaction whether it be monetary or revenge please contact me. We have several options that we can go and I for one am positive we will win as the other lawsuits have been successful so far and have set a precedent for ours. It is time for the owners of Curves franchises either past or present to stand up together and put a stop to Heavins’s ramped destruction of peoples lives just for monetary greed.
Thanks for reading our post and God Bless you all.
ARE YOU AN CURVES FRANCHISE OWNER OR FORMER CURVES FRANCHISEE?
ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE CURVES FRANCHISE OPPORTUNITY?
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View Comments
Unhappy states:
'Howie and Curves International is telling owners who have Smart and have closed that they “have to” return the CS equipment to curves International, although no where does it say that owners have to do this (especially if owners own the equipment!).'
Do people read their franchise agreements (I'm guessing not many do or maybe it's the fact that this is stated on pg 38 of their 2008 agreement):
'Grant to Curves the option to purchase all equipment used in the operation of Franchisee's Facility and other usable items bearing the Curves Marks at fair market value not to exceed $1,000...'
It might be 'unethical', but it seems like what they are doing is legal. The franchisee should be reading all of their contracts and verify the 'chain of possession.' In a case like this, it'd be wise to contact an attorney and get advice on your legal options.
Note to all: Please refer to each other by the "commenter" name only. Attempts to "out" one another's real or suspected identites is bad form and an extreme breach of netiquette punishable by banishment from this esteemed community. Thanks. The Management
It would be great if you guys could stop the name calling and petty bickering. There's a lot of good information on this thread but unfortunately we've got to wade thru alot of shiping back & forth. Insulting the other doesn't make you seem smarter, just unprofessional.
Some of us are looking for real information and appreciate it when you all stick to substance and not namecalling.
"Guest" are you just one person? why don't you pick a more specific moniker? just trying to figure out if all the comments are coming from one person or another...
Per your ("guest") post to Judy, who wanted to skip the fees to Curves International so she could have a chance at making a profit, I'm guessing this Guest hasn't actually owned a franchise.
Here's why, from my personal experience:
At 260 members the fees are much higher. I didn't have the sliding scale but I compared and at 250 they're pretty close. In fact if I remember right, the ad fee was much higher at 250. Anyways, I was paying Curves International:
- $395 monthly royalties
- $195 ad fees
- $ 20 or so for managing my "wellness memberships"
that's $610 a month....
(btw- the wellness program sounds like a winner but it lost me a ton of money.... imagine going from someone who prepaid their year every january (39x12 +tax) to $4/visit.... that was the tradeoff i had for over a dozen women at one club and nearly a dozen at the other)
and I think I was paying them
$365 Curves Smart Lease
$ 99 Curves Smart Computer
that's another $455 that you could argue I wasn't paying to Howie but still, because of Howie....
With that monthly $610 or the additional $455/month I could have done alot more advertising or other incentives to fight to keep my club going during this recession. I agree with Judy wholeheartedly.
And it makes me more agreeable to "unhappy"'s assertion that you don't have any real franchise experience.
■guest on June 11th, 2010 2:03 pm
Judy said: “Without the fees you would at least have a chance of a profit.”
Quit kidding yourself. With Curves minimum monthly fees at just 95 and 195,.............
Guest,
A few requests:
1) Please post with a working email address so I can address issues like these offline,
2) Please email me at unhappyfranchisee[at]gmail.com about site policies, enforcement, etc.
3) Stop using the IP anonymizer because all your comments have to be retrieved manually from the spam filter. We literally get hundreds of porn, cialis and other "comment spam" entries per day and I'm going to discontinue combing through them soon.
Thanks
Justine Curver,
From your numbers, you were on the flat/fixed rate on both your fees. The minimums I was referring to (as laid out here a few times by different people) are in fact the minimums that anyone on the sliding percentage paid. My reason for quoting the minimums was that if someone is not making any money (and they may well not be, I’m NOT saying they are lying or anything) but if they have nothing coming in, then they would be at the low end of the scale and paying only the minimums and therefore the money they would “save” by NOT being a Curves would be the amounts I quoted: $290/month.
Now, as to YOUR numbers. You were on a flat rate of $590/month whether you were grossing $2,000 a month or $20,000. Don’t know and don’t care what your gross was, that isn’t the point. The point at hand was how much would be SAVED by NOT being a Curves. In your case you quote yourself at $610 when you include the wellness management fees(I’ll address the rest of your proposed savings in a minute). OK, let’s see what including wellness into the equation does for us…if you weren’t a Curves you are correct, you’d have no wellness management fees because you’d have no wellness members. So, as well as saving the $20 a month you’d also be LOSING money (now, I’m going to have to do something here that I don’t’ like doing: guess with very limited information, so you’ll excuse me if I’m a bit off in my math. You didn’t say, so I’ll just have to wing it a bit) assuming just a 4 visit a month average on your wellness members (even though my average for a wellness member was 7, I’m feeling generous), also that only half were on Curves Smart (again, felling generous, as we only had 10% NOT do Smart), and assuming that NONE of them were on the flat $33/$35/$40 fee (i.e. existing members who switched to wellness), at $1 per member, $20 dollars in wellness fees means 20 wellness members, not great, but hey, let’s work with what we’ve got and see what happens. So, 20 members X 4 visits on average X $4/visit = $320 PLUS you are allowed to charge a monthly Smart fee directly to the members for each one on Smart (plus the initial fee, but we’re looking at the monthly “savings” you’d get for not being a Curves, so we’ll forget that for now) so we assumed just half on Smart for 10 members X $5 = $50. $320 + $50 = $370 in lost wellness. So, for wellness, you’d be saving $20 but losing $370. So, you’re right, my numbers to Judy ($290 / month in savings) aren’t the same for you. You’d be saving $610 - $370 = $240 oh, wait, look at that, that’s worse! And I SWEAR, I didn’t do the math until the end, so I’m as surprised as you. But in actuality, unless Judy had ZERO wellness, she’d be saving even less than the $290 I quoted before. So you might be saving a little more than she would, but not much. Thank you for reminding me about the wellness monies she’d lose!
Actually, I just re-read your post and I see that you said that you had over a dozen members at your one club and nearly a dozen at the other switch to wellness (since we’re going with a per club savings, let’s stick with one club and call it a dozen). OK, well, up until Jan this year for the one $4/visit program, and next month for the other $4/visit program, for existing members switching to wellness, you were getting $35 and $40 / month respectively. PLUS you got the Smart fee as well for those members. So, even with paying the $1/member/month you were getting $39 and $44 instead of your normal $39. That means it would increase the loss of wellness and decrease your savings even more. Sorry. Again, you didn’t give me all the facts, so I’m just going off what you said. I’ll gladly redo the math when you provide more facts. But, though I’m sure it will be ignored, I’ve made my point.
As to including in your “savings” your Smart lease and support contract, first, you’d still be paying off your lease if you keep the equipment, second, having Smart in a club of 260 members MORE than pays the monthly expense of the lease and contract. And of course, if you are talking about not having to pay for Smart, that would mean you returned it to the leasing company and weren’t using it, selling it, or earning from it. OK. I guess, if we’re going down this route, you could also say that you wouldn’t be using iGofigure and save that money too, but then you’d be running your club without any member management software.
Also, despite saying it a few times, you failed to get the point that that small amount is NOT what is killing owners. While in every business, it really is important to count your pennies, in this case it’s the BIGGIES, rent and payroll, that are decimating these businesses. BUT both of which I showed can, and should be managed better than they are by people. There is NO REASON to be overpaying for rent and payroll. Not with the state the commercial real estate market is in and double digit unemployment. I suggest you read more carefully as it looks like you completely missed this. $240 (or less) in “savings” for you to NOT be in the franchises system is in no way going to turn an unprofitable club profitable. It just isn’t going to happen. However, controlling your rent and payroll CAN.
Not that I’m trying to convince you, or anyone, to stay with Curves, I’m not. But if you think that it’s tough doing business as a Curves, you might want to look at the stats for a ladies gym with NO name recognition. “Justine’s Fast Workout” simply isn’t going to cut it. Not even without franchise fees!
Lastly, with respect to your, “guess” that I “never owned a franchise”, not only did I own several Curves, as evidenced by the content in my posts, but others have been corrected for that presumption - I owned other similar businesses and have been running businesses for over 30 years (including owning another non-fitness franchise). But that doesn’t matter. At least 90% of what I’ve said is NOT franchise dependent. It’s simply good business sense. But, if the ONLY people you are going to listen to are people who owned a franchise and failed, as if only they can understand your problems, well then, you too are doomed to failure.
Guest what do you do now? Are you retired, a CI Spy, the CI accountant? It's obvious you have too much time on your hands to put that much thought into all the figures and quote eveyone. What exactly is your interest in this site?
The problem with Curves is that it is obvious that so many franchisees are not making it. We pay these fees for royalties and advertising and get very little in return. When we ask our AD or Curves International for help they just say get more BRs or put out more lead bags. These things worked very well in the beginning when Curves was the new workout in town, but now BRs and lead bags are not working. I live in a very small community. My loyal members have given me all the names they want to give and I'm tired of the junk I get in lead bags. What worked in the past is not working now. In training Gary says to do everything the Curves way and it will work.
McDonalds is not serving the same exact food in the same exact manner as when McDonalds first opened. They have changed with the times. Curves has not changed anything. It is obvious that the Curves way is not working and there needs to be some changes.
I understand that we are all independent owners and we are responsible for our own sucess or failure. But when you are told to only do things the Curves way and are reprimanded when you go outside of the box, what are we to do? I'm tired of the old BRs and lead bags. We need something more from Curves International.
What made Curves so big in the first place? It was different from the same old gym. Yes there were other knockoffs. But Curves was the best. Curves was different. Now Curves is old news and we need something else that is new and different. Curves Smart seemed to be answer but it was the same concept. We need Curves to reinvent itself and be the new exciting workout again.
Hopefully our royalties are being spent in a way that is developing new products again. But I doubt it.
I have to agree with Kim. Guest you have way to much time on your hands to own any business. I do not think that Guest ever owned a Curves. I think he works for CI and it striclty their to post on these sites. I also owned 2 other business, successfully I might add, besides Curves. oh wait no I just closed my doors on my Curves because I was in the HOLE EVERY MONTH. So guest stop wasting your time on this site its obvious that your only job is to criticize people and are probably getting paid to do it.. Oh by the way before you have a remark about what I'm doing on the site during the day with two business to run my little boy has strep I am home with him today.
“Are you … a CI Spy, the CI accountant? It's obvious you have too much time on your hands to put that much thought into all the figures and quote eveyone.”
Well Kim, when you’ve been in business as long as I have, it doesn’t take a lot of time to do the math. One of my biggest points has been that this DOESN’T take “that much thought”. It’s business basics. When you bought a franchise you mistakenly figured you could skip right over the basics. Don’t feel bad, you’re not alone in that mistake. But we’re not talking spreadsheets and databases here. This is basic 1 + 1 = 2 math. If you think it takes an accountant to do these calculations, I hope you have one.
Yet another “he’s a CI spy!” voice added to the chorus? How original. Please, try to attack the argument instead of the man. Find fault with what I say, not who you THINK I may be. Where am I defending anything other than common (business) sense? I just said, 90+% of what I’ve said has nothing to do with running a franchise, but running ANY business.
Well under 2 minutes. I’m pretty sure that I’ll still manage to get done everything I need to do today. It helps if you can think and type very fast. Mind you, even though I was just saying the same things again - but in a slightly different way in hopes that something would slip through - that last post did take I guess about 10-12 minutes while I was watching the news. No big loss though, I did it during commercial breaks and while watching the weather and finished during a story about (another) European strike. Whoops, now I’m at almost 3 minutes!