VANGUARD CLEANING SYSTEMS Franchise Scam Complaints

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• Dear Personnel,
  I am the office manager for Colonial Mayflower Moving & Storage Co. here in Hackensack, NJ. About half an hour ago, I received a solicitation call from a female called Margot at VanGuard phone number [redacted]. It's not the first time I have been contacted by VanGuard; We were in no need of such services, but previous sales calls never hemmed up my schedule before Margot called today.

  The way my office is run is this: Unwanted calls of any kind (the definition of which is mine, as office manager): calls where the caller is cryptic/deceptive, expects to waste my time making me "figure out" what he or she "really" wants, or "assumptively-closes" me or my phone answerer, ALL get "dumped" to a particular voice mail. This is done:
  1)To save us time, which is our right
  2) To try to save the feelings of innocent kids who have to do the despised job of phone soliciting
  3) To enable our office to hear sales proposals at their leisure & without pressure from solicitors & salesmen IF & when we feel a sales call is important enough to US to be listened to.

  Margot didn't like being "dumped", so she called back, not unusual for pushy solicitors; I had been polite once already by dumping the call instead of hanging up on her, but she didn't want it that way; So I told her the truth-that no one was interested in anything she had to say. Her response was "But you never came back-you just switched me to a voicemail". I explained to her that I didn't have time for "this shit" & hung up-happens daily here.

  Unhappy with the way I run MY office, which SHE had called, Margot called back. She was compelled to tell me that she found me rude, which was fine with me & I told her so. I explained that SHE had called ME, never the other way around, & that as the official manager in charge here, I owed her NO explanation or courtesy...How did I know I wasn't running the risk of being rude to someone important? -Her name is Margot & she was harassing me, repeatedly calling, telling me not to curse at her, etc.

  To this, I replied that I had every right. She had the balls to tell me she'd "tell" my manager, "TELL"...like a pussy 5-year old..."You'll have no job", she added, not realizing the situation...I explained to her that I AM my manager, & that there was no one capable of taking my job, least of all her...something only MY employees know here, as it IS our office, not hers...But she cleverly & bravely hung up on me. Real sure of herself, isn't she...

  I was, at that point, completely willing to ignore it & move on with the phone calls I DO want, but her harassment continued; She even sat silently on the other end of the phone when she heard it was me again who had picked up...She asked for John, my Operations Guy (& partial partner, which is why she assumed he would be the one who would fire ME over someone as insignificant in our lives as her.) What she doesn't know is that MY JOB is to KEEP people like "Margot" from reaching John, who has enough to do during the course of our day, even if he was too polite to say so before she hung up on HIM TOO in mid-sentence; I am PAID to get rid of nuisance calls such as this. Sorry if that doesn't work for telephone solicitors from who-cares-where who are a dime a dozen. She sat silently on the other end until I asked her if she would "like the owner him self to tell her to go fuck herself", to which she quietly told me "yes, that would be good". The owner, however, asked that I "hang up on Margot" instead...She then beat him to the punch, as I guess he left her nothing more to say.

  Before she hung up for good, Margot had a lot of "advise" for me today, much to the dismay of my Business Administration, Entrepreneurship, & Marketing Degrees, regarding her opinion on the manner in which I should run MY office & about MY phone manner (which is perfectly professional until I encounter a psycho self-important, DELUSIONAL caller like "Margo", at which point, all bets are off-remember SHE called ME); I would like to return this attempted favor of hers by advising HER to know who she's speaking with before wasting people's time while attempting to "woo" them into buying something from her; I find it best NOT to aggravate people I am trying to make like me; The fact that I am PAID to speak with ALL OTHERS in any manner I wish is not something I need to explain to anyone, least of all Margot; She can decide that her feelings were hurt by my "cussing" & otherwise abrasive language if she's really that pitiful, but I assure you that her feelings are of no concern to us, the people she was attempting to impress.

  Please inform her that I happen to be irreplaceable here. Nothing she or anyone like her could say about me will ever change that. I have well over 15 years of management experience & run a very successful company, actively contributing in every aspect of the business, including producing sales; I am in charge of firing people like Margot & sending them straight to McDonald's. When a customer is angered by the fact that one of MY company's solicitors has called them, I apologize to that person & take them off of our call-list...If they curse or hang up on me, it is their RIGHT to do so & doesn't necessarily indicate that they are as "unprofessional" when dealing with professional and/or important calls UNLIKE sales calls; And no matter what, I certainly don't keep call back, wasting more of their time & harassing them.

  I realize your company must appreciate solicitors who don't take "no" for an answer, but we have no patience for it. Please note that Margot & anyone like her will continue to meet with hostility & foul language, as it is our prerogative to do so. The fact that it pisses them off & that they find my demeanour cantankerous is impertinent. Thank you for your time. Please feel free to contact me using any information below. My cell phone is free & unlimited, & it will not accept anonymous numbers, in case Margot feels like being cute. Thank you for your time.

  Sincerely,
  Kristin Feulner
  Administration
  Cell: [redacted]
  Office: [redacted]
  Email: [redacted]

• She called around 11am-I was just able to post the above now!

• Kristin:
  I Googled the number that you posted. It shows up as belonging to Vanguard Cleaning Systems of Northern New Jersey.
  The management of this Vanguard Cleaning Systems Master Franchisee is listed as:

  Cleaning Services: Sean Gressler
  Franchise Opportunities: Gary Gressler
  Customer Support: Shannon Webber

  115 Route 46 West Suite A-8
  Mountain Lakes, NJ 07046

  A professional telemarketer would never waste that kind of time just to piss off an obviously unqualified local business. If this is representative of Vanguard Cleaning Systems' sales program, it's no wonder the franchisees - who are waiting for new accounts - are complaining.

  Thanks for sharing your telemarketer-from-hell story!

• Author "A professional telemarketer would never waste that kind of time just to piss off an obviously unqualified local business. If this is representative of Vanguard Cleaning Systems’ sales program, it’s no wonder the franchisees – who are waiting for new accounts – are complaining." ...Well, I don't know now...We qualified for her to care enough to call repeatedly...If I seem rude, it's just that I have no time here to coddle nuisance callers. That kind of treatment & warm fuzzy language is reserved for family, friends, co-workers & customers. Alas, we ARE unqualified to extend it past one attempt to nicely avoid the situation. My apologies to anyone who was offended or took this personally.

• Kristen:
  I don't think you owe anyone an apology. Margot & Vanguard certainly owe YOU an apology.
  B2B telemarketers are annoying. I tolerate them because I know people have to make a living and businesses need to promote themselves. But as soon as you make it clear that you don't need their services, they should hang up and move on to the next person.
  Vanguard needs to get Margot off the phone and get her into either training or counseling. Barraging your company with calls could be called theft, as time IS money.
  And it's foolish... next thing you know, Vanguard Cleaning Systems of Northern New Jersey is being discussed on the Internet not for their great cleaning service, but for their harrassing phone calls.

• I am a Vanguard franchisee in Michigan and i would totally agree with the majority. Being apart of Vanguard has made me bitter in many ways. The one that sticks out is how the Master Franchise owner, Carey Winkel, treats you. She has made me feel "like just a worker to bring money in her pocket," on many occasions. Knowing her has made me see how I will not treat people when I get my own company. I have paid for my package, but I do not see this as anything that I own! I see this as "a job that I am paying to have." I fully understood the charges and fees, and I agreed to it. I am dissatisfied because of the way that I am made to feel as a person.

• I want to ask LaShonda White about her experience with Vanguard franchisee in Michigan. Recently, I have meet Carey Winkel and she told me about this bussiness, it sound really good, but me and my husband been research about the company before decide to be a franchisee or not. Please let me know your exprience with her if you could. Thank you very much

• Hello "anonymous." First let me say that I am human, and I did my best to follow the rules of Vanguard, and Carey Winkel. "Yes," I made some mistakes, but I tried to learn from them and move on. I wanted to do things the right way, as well as make my own name, but I do not feel as though this is possible if you are a franchise of any sort.

  At times I felt like even though I was trying to communicate with my contact person and being proactive about certain situations, it still was a mark against me. For instance, if I missed a clean, I would contact them immediately, and I would either give them a credit, or go in an make the clean up. Well this is not acceptable to ever missed any cleans, for any reason. Well, I learned my lesson and I was made to feel like a child and just a regular employee also.

  Carey is a good person with getting contracts and numbers, but for my personality, and from what I have heard from people that have came in contact with her, and some of her staff, they have not been pleased. Being in a business is scary enough sometimes, but to feel like all you have done "is buy yourself an expensive job," can be a little hurtful.

  Please do your due diligence. A franchise can be great if you need a steady income for you and your family, but be prepared for some "ill feelings" along the way. I have learned to just have an open set of ears, but a stone heart, when I receive any correspondence from Vanguard. They have provided an income for my family, and I really appreciate that, but I wish I could have done my own thing in the end. When I do get my own business, with my own name on the door, I will always remember some key things that Vanguard and Carey Winkel taught me.

  Good luck in all that you do.

• BEWARE OF VANGUARD CLEANING SYSTEMS! In June of 2011, after 2 months of countless phone calls with Mark Heisten VP of Business Development, countless hours of research and a conversation with the owner Ray Lee, we were invited to come out to San Mateo, CA for a meeting at the corporate office to determine if we liked what we "saw" in Vanguard. It was also for Ray Lee and his staff to decide if they liked what they "saw" in us. We were interested in becoming a Master Franchisee for the Greater Cincinnati Area. We spent several thousand dollars for the trip. We were offered the Master Franchise for Cincinnati and they told us we were a great fit with VanGuard. We were impressed by their talk of the great importance that they put on the ethics with which they run the company. We were very upfront that we still had some "homework" to do in regards to having our attorney look at the Master Franchise Agreement, needed to talk with our accountant as to how we wanted to pay the enormous Master Franchise fee due upon signing and how we were going to set up our corporation (s-corp, LLC, etc). Also we explained that Mark would be out of town the following week with his current job and really wouldn't be able to do much homework for a week. Everyone understood and agreed that we still needed to get a few more ducks in a row. We were in contact with Mark Heisten of VanGuard several times each week and sometimes several times a day. We were always up front with our progress and wher we stood. When Mark Heisten cam to Cincinnati for personal reason we met with him and showed him the place that we were pretty sure we were going to put our Master Franchise office of VanGuard. He completely agreed with our choice. We told him we were waiting to hear back from our attorney about any issues he thought we should discuss during the contract negotiations. Mark Heisten mentions out of nowhere that there is someone else looking into being the Master Franchise for Cincinnati. We were offered the MF for Cincinnati already so we were finalizing our efforts. A couple of days later we told Mark Heisten that we had heard back from our attorney and were ready to start contract negotiations with the owner, Ray Lee. We had a couple of conversations with Mark Heisten about a few minor issues that our attorney mentioned and we were told that he would talk with Ray and get back with us. All of a sudden, we were not getting phone calls, no messages we leave for Mark Heisten are returned and no emails or text messages are acknowledged. Two weeks go by with no contact from Mark Heisten. Finally, Mark Heisten calls us as he is getting on an airplane and says that they (VanGuard Corporate) gave the Master Franchise for Cincinnati to the other person. We were stunned and completely insulted! We were already offered the Master Fanchise! Where were their ethics that they talked so proudly of while we were in California? We were completely blind sided. So obviously the two weeks where we couldn't get any contact from VanGuard was while they were stabbing us in the back with this other person. We just recently found out that the VanGuard Master Franchise office for Cincinnati is in the exact office space that we had shown Mark Heisten that we were going to be putting our office when we became the Master Franchise. So it seems he was doing some scouting work for the other person while we thought he was trying to help us determine the best spot for our office! Another slap in the face! We are thankful that we found out the true nature of this company before we invested one more penny on VanGuard. VanGuard is not the ethical company they portray themselves to be! BEWARE!

• WOW! Mark & Mitzi...I am so sorry that this happened to you. When we saw how lengthy your email was we instantly looked and said, "Whoa, this can't be good!" I hope that you will find another business, or franchise that will be more of a good experience for you. To read this letter inspires me to keep going in my goals. I really feel "funny' about being involved with the type of people that you have described in this email.

  I want to do positive things in my life, as well as provide a decent living. Vanguard has allowed me to do this, but now I feel like I am useless to them. I sometimes feel not so good about myself, and my job as a cleaner. I just push through it, do the best job that I can, remain thankful for being able to work as a franchisee, and looking for inspiration in tomorrow.

  Good Luck in all that you will do! :-)