IS AMWAY A SCAM?

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• Trissh is lying. Platinums don't make $10k/month, whether it is net or gross profit. Also, Amway pays a commission, not salary. I suspect the Bill Gates comment is a lie as well.

• I have read through the entire blog the past 7 hours and read through some of the links that you guys have posted. I have no idea whether or not this post is still alive, but I have some questions. I understand the gyst of things regarding Amway. Obviously, there are many sides to the story without name calling. Amway could provide a secondary income (a very slim chance) to those who actually are willing to work their butts off for this company. I understand the "recommended" training they must go through, and the years of hard work they are "recommended" to put in before they can be expected climb up the ladder. I am aware that a lot of this "training products" are related to the Amway Tool Scam, in which tools are sold to IBOs in order to profit the higher ups without providing much help to the newbies.
  My question is simply regarding this ladder system though. I have personally come to the conclusion that, Amway as a business is not a scam. If I am correct, it provides people with an opportunity to start their own business at relatively affordable costs. However, like any business one must pull in a lot of the efforts and is never guaranteed any financial success. Some people can marginalize this deficit by making excuses like joining for the sake of discounts, but ultimately, it provides a relatively low-risk/low-success rate way of gaining financial independence. If I am wrong in any of these statements, please correct without defaming. I'm just asking for clarifications, not hot-headed opinions.

  Anyways, with regards to my original question...
  How exactly does the ladder system work. In one of the earlier posts, there was a link to Amway wiki and I've tried to read through the ladder system. But I have no idea what it's actually saying. To make silver level you have to make 21% level? I get most of it after that. Pretty much remaining constantly at this level for about 2 years get you up to some certain level. And the higher levels require you to have "legs" or more downline (or is this harder to reach?) -I'm assuming- that must make this 21% level. Can someone clarify:
  1.) What is this 21% level?
  2.) What are the chances of making this 21% level for a startup?
  3.) How long would it take on average to get to this 21%?
  4.) How hard is it (I guess that depends on what the 21% is)?
  5.) What are "legs?" (you need 3 legs that does silver level to qualify as a Pearl)
  I guess my logic is, since the entire ladder system is based on this initial silver level and how consistent you can be with it, the level of difficulty regarding the silver level is what really matters...

  Thanks to anyone who can help with this info...
  And really really. I am very curious if Shekhar ever wants to rejoin the post, how he is faring. For the love of truth only, I for one won't judge if he failed, or quit and will be happy if he ended up succeeding after 2 years... or 4 years if the loose assumptions based on the 2007 post were true. I earnestly want to know the truth regarding the process. And to tex, I have read and understood your thoughts and facts on the Amway Tool Scam and am convinced that the tools are a way to give money to higher ups; but logically, I'm sure those who succeeded in Amway used some of these tools. For a fact, not all who use them end up with any success and usually end up in a deficit, but my question to you would be... Are there any good tools that you know of. My guess would be that there are so many tools recommended and put up on the Amway bookstore/cd/lecture "store" that most start ups have no idea which ones to buy. So they end up buying into massive amounts of resources without really learning much.

  But to those who succeeded, which resources did you use? Do mentors really provide all that you need to succeed in Amway? I'm sure most resources out there are useless. But are there any "diamonds in the rough?"

  I don't want this to turn into another debate... I'm sure anyone who is curious can get the gyst of the debate from the above 20 pages worth of comments.

  Thanks in advance

• IC,

  I've found plenty of value in tools I've purchased, and never had any problem with the fact that the people who make and sell them make money from it. That's normal business. I believe all the companies that produce tools have a recommended startup sets.

  In response to your questions -
  (1) 21% is the maximum volume rebate (think of it as a volume discount) for most Amway markets, calculated monthly. North America actually goes up to 25%. The actual volume required to qualify for it also varies between markets. In most markets it's 10000 points, in some it's 7500 points.
  (2) chance has very little to do with it. I am yet to meet a single person who did what our group recommends to reach that volume and *didn't* reach it. I've also seen ad hoc surveys done at seminars of thousands of people with exactly the same result.
  (3) 6-12 months of consistently working seems to be the approximate time frame.
  (4) The work itself is not hard, as long as your psychologically prepared (as in all "sales" types of businesses) to accept that the vast majority of people you attempt to "sell" the business or products to will not be interested. Most people find that difficult. It's also extremely difficult for most people (including myself) to consistently maintain the focus required for 6-12 months. While the work itself is not hard, and not particularly time consuming, it is usually added on to everything else in your life, the sum total of which makes it difficult to maintain consistency
  (5) Each person you personally sponsor is the start of a "leg". When a leg reaches 21% there is no longer any profit margin for you (ie you and they are bothing getting the same volume rebate). In traditional business if you were a wholesaler and selling to someone who qualified to deal direct with your supplier, you'd then lose them as a customer. Amway operates differently and starts to add in new bonuses/commissions. As you develop more 21% teams, additional bonuses come in to play

  [del]

• Do not trust ibofb. He is a known liar, has a huge ego, and is dishonest to the core.

  I have also found the tools to have good information, but they are too expensive. There's a reason why the UK almost kicked Amway out of their country in 2008, and why ZERO tool profit is allowed. There is a reason why the Amway rules in India have maximum tool prices, which are about 1/5 of what we pay for in the U.S. The reason is to shut down the Amway Tool Scam, the biggest issue Amway faces.

• I submitted a response yesterday, and it appears the links have kept it in moderation status.

  TEX: We don't allow posting of email addresses or other personal contact information in the comments. Also, there's no need to post links to your site as your name already links to your url. Thanks for helping to build the conversation here.

• I really do pity these Amway "associates". To be honest ladies and gents, I don't think arguing with them will alter their mindset. They need this to make them selves feel better because it's their only opportunity. Talking about starting your own business... why don't you just sell your own products.

  All you Amwamites or whatever your cult title is (plutonium eradium level maybe?) need to look at your self in the mirror and ask "AM I MAKING MONEY?"

  If you are, then shit, do work guys and gals. Sell the fugget out of shampoo and detergent because you're good at it.

  IF YOU ARE NOT. Shut the fugget up on all these useless bantering on working hard and BS because you just made your upline money and you're on this message board on your 200$ laptop because you invested in the CEO's private plane.

  You waste your life in this pathetic company with a mistaken reputation. Even If I was making money in this scheme, I would never want to represent Amway for sheer RESPECT of myself

• Motfool (any significance in your name? - let us see:)

  I have been getting these posts off and on and have been looking at it once in a while. Anyone comes, trashes the Corporation! I think, it is a mistake to keep silent and let the dogs bark. Sometimes, the barking becomes unbearable!
  Motfool, it is EXACTLY because of people like you that there are millions out there who are deprived of a fantastic opportunity - to be in a business for yourself at practically no cost! You RESPECT yourself you say? It is evident you are mistaking "respect" with ignorance!! What respect are you talking about? Scaring good people out there? You guys are a "Fear mongers". You work like donkeys for the rest of your lives, and yell "I have been cheated by an Amway guy" even when you hear the name Amway.

  You "motfool", you say "you just made your upline money and invested in CEO's private plane? do you know the facts man (or a woman!):

  1) Every year people like you INCREASE the Walmart business by a few
  BILLIONS.
  2) During the recession, you increased their business by 10 BILLIONS.
  Do you UNDERSTAND the significance of this you motfool?

  Do you think Walmart/Target give you products FREE of cost? Then WHY do you say I made money for my upline?

  Argument with people like you wastes our time...but it is getting too much!

  People like you are such:
  - Its OK if someone ELSE makes money!
  - But NO ONE from my friends and family should make any money!

  People like you scare away innocent and hardworking people who would make a fortune in this business.

  I make "upline" money??? do you know the facts (again?):
  - When I learn how to make USD 2600 PER MONTH,
  my upline gets paid USD 800/-
  - People out there do not know (thanks to you) that my upline is HELPING
  me all the time! He has invested a whole lot in my success.
  - So should I be sad that he is making 800 or happy that I am making 2600!

  Stop badmouthing something you know NOTHING ABOUT!!!

  Let me give you examples of people like you:
  - You go to college.
  - Out of "SELF RESPECT", you do not study but enjoy the heck out of the college time.
  - When you fail, you scream the "College is bad" "It is a scam".,
  - You work, your spouse works, between the two of you you make 150 to 200K a year. so you are flying high.
  - Come recession and then you fall down to earth and work at gas stations.
  - Working at gas stations is "SELF RESPECTING" than selling "Shampoo" you have said.

  Dont ask me how much I make, none of your goddamn business! If you like it you are welcome to the biz if not, then go back to where you are!!

  What we do?

  Let Winners win. and Losers lose!!

  Take care you motfool.

• Shekhar,

  You need to learn more about the Amway business. [del]

  Tex: please feel free to share your information and opinions here in our comments section. If you'd like to buy an ad for your site, email me at unhappyfranchisee@gmail.com. Thanks. Admin

• Shekhar is back! Shekhar is in the house!

  Shekhar, why is it that you have NO problem tossing around fictional and hypothetical (big words... look them up) dollar amounts ("When I learn how to make USD 2600 PER MONTH..." as in "When pigs fly...") but when it comes to a simple FACT (like how much, in actuality, you really make, Or lose, each month) you say "none of your goddamn business!"?

  Shekhar, you are a typical AmBot - Won't shut up when it comes to spewing fiction but are deathly afraid of stating or facing the truth... that you've been doing this for years and are still losing money. That you are, in fact, a sucker.

  Come on, Shekhar! what do you make? We promise we won't tell the IRS Millionaire Division.

• I joined Amway about 2 months ago and have nothing negative to say about it thus far. My mother loves the cleaning products, and I love their vitamins and supplements.

  The way I see it is, I'm buying products from myself that I already use, so why not give it a shot?

  My uncle did Amway 20 years ago and had some great success with it but its clear to me that it required some work.

  I went to one of their conferences in Kentucky (I live in Texas), and it was an amazing experience. Being around 15,000 people who are excited about the same thing as you is exhilarating.

  Even if this business doesn't work out for me, I've learned how to be a more confident person and I've met some great people along the way.

  I think anyone with an open-mind, looking for a second income, and a people person should look into this opportunity. Success is never guaranteed, but the journey is more important than the end and the start.